Balance by Wrobel in 40 seconds

DKsUnite

Random dot (im guessing poison injection) which costs roughly 2k stamina (i think thats a fair assumption)
Igenous shield = 3.4k magicka, Dragon blood = 3.6k magicka, Volatile Armour = 2.6k magicka
I use 3 Dragon Bloods, 2 Igenous and a volatile armour to try to stop this dot from killing me
3*3.6 + 2*3.4 + 2.6 = 20.2k magicka
I use 20.2k magicka to stop myself from dying to a random dot placed by someone who doesnt even know it's ticking and where do i finish?
I finish with about 50% health and 0 magicka....
Cmon @Wrobel , i can't wait another 3 months of you parading around on your stamina NB while i can't even heal without wasting half of my magicka bar....
It's been over a year like this and it will be another 3-6 months before you have a "balance update".... *** do it now not 6 months from now....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZdOottq4y4

mtwiggz

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Gilvoth

your not using magicka regen foods from the looks of it, it's probably a great start to help regen magicka.

Bosov

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

your not using magicka regen foods from the looks of it, it's probably a great start to help regen magicka.

What does that have to do with anything? Its about the cost not the amount of regen.

Strider_Roshin

mtwiggz wrote: »

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Simple, you use stamina for blocking, CC breaking, sprinting, and dodge rolling. If they costed the same, stamina would be at an enormous disadvantage. As it is currently, resource management for magicka is a ton easier unless you're a magDK because whip is stupid expensive.

DocFrost72

On a serious note OP, something to consider. Why would you spam a heal that works best at low health, or pop shields repeatedly when you could have simply used healing ward or mutagen? Both would have been all you needed, or one could have saved you. You also took some stray damage and walked through caltrops to lose the amount of health you did, opening you up to an execute dot doing its job. One healing ward would have sufficed, and if you had cast mutagen it would have removed the dot and burst healed you.

Granted these things are harder to do in combat and require a resto staff, but the options are there. If I got pegged with PI, I definately activate rally and vigor. You need a hot to counter a dot, and strong burst heals to counter burst damage. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but maybe, just maybe, when you pick up the sword and board for survivability you actually may be losing survivability?

And as @Strider_Roshin pointed out, if a stam toon blows their stam on damage, they can't attack, heal, roll, block OR cc break. Essentially, no stam on a Stam toon is GG.

And since I see it coming, I main a stamplar. In PvE. I prefer magblade or mag sorc for PvP, I do better. Wanna try mDK though

mtwiggz

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Simple, you use stamina for blocking, CC breaking, sprinting, and dodge rolling. If they costed the same, stamina would be at an enormous disadvantage. As it is currently, resource management for magicka is a ton easier unless you're a magDK because whip is stupid expensive.

You have good use of #ZoSlogic here. Congrats you have been converted to the dark side.

Moglijuana

DocFrost72 wrote: »

On a serious note OP, something to consider. Why would you spam a heal that works best at low health, or pop shields repeatedly when you could have simply used healing ward or mutagen? Both would have been all you needed, or one could have saved you. You also took some stray damage and walked through caltrops to lose the amount of health you did, opening you up to an execute dot doing its job. One healing ward would have sufficed, and if you had cast mutagen it would have removed the dot and burst healed you.

Granted these things are harder to do in combat and require a resto staff, but the options are there. If I got pegged with PI, I definately activate rally and vigor. You need a hot to counter a dot, and strong burst heals to counter burst damage. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but maybe, just maybe, when you pick up the sword and board for survivability you actually may be losing survivability?

And as @Strider_Roshin pointed out, if a stam toon blows their stam on damage, they can't attack, heal, roll, block OR cc break. Essentially, no stam on a Stam toon is GG.

And since I see it coming, I main a stamplar. In PvE. I prefer magblade or mag sorc for PvP, I do better. Wanna try mDK though

He was spamming at low health though... and pressing one button for a dot that costs 2k stam that takes 20k mag to counter...is not balanced lol

DocFrost72

Moglijuana wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

On a serious note OP, something to consider. Why would you spam a heal that works best at low health, or pop shields repeatedly when you could have simply used healing ward or mutagen? Both would have been all you needed, or one could have saved you. You also took some stray damage and walked through caltrops to lose the amount of health you did, opening you up to an execute dot doing its job. One healing ward would have sufficed, and if you had cast mutagen it would have removed the dot and burst healed you.

Granted these things are harder to do in combat and require a resto staff, but the options are there. If I got pegged with PI, I definately activate rally and vigor. You need a hot to counter a dot, and strong burst heals to counter burst damage. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but maybe, just maybe, when you pick up the sword and board for survivability you actually may be losing survivability?

And as @Strider_Roshin pointed out, if a stam toon blows their stam on damage, they can't attack, heal, roll, block OR cc break. Essentially, no stam on a Stam toon is GG.

And since I see it coming, I main a stamplar. In PvE. I prefer magblade or mag sorc for PvP, I do better. Wanna try mDK though

He was spamming at low health though...

DB needs a rework, let me be the first to admit it. It is also a much better tank skill then heal, tbh. It's based off health missing, as is healing ward. I suppose I worded it wrong. Let me correct it.

Spamming an ability that restores at best 20% of your missing health is a horrible idea, as the ability is horribad and needs a rework. In fact, he honestly would have prolly fared better staying up top and spamming burning embers. That's how bad DB is.

That said, if you spend five minutes on a DK you know that, why use it in Cyro instead of an ability that has an upfront heal, ward, and delayed heal? And as I said, mutagen would have purged the dot.

The-Baconator

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Simple, you use stamina for blocking, CC breaking, sprinting, and dodge rolling. If they costed the same, stamina would be at an enormous disadvantage. As it is currently, resource management for magicka is a ton easier unless you're a magDK because whip is stupid expensive.

LOL WUT

NBrookus

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Spamming an ability that restores at best 20% of your missing health is a horrible idea, as the ability is horribad and needs a rework. In fact, he honestly would have prolly fared better staying up top and spamming burning embers. That's how bad DB is.

That said, if you spend five minutes on a DK you know that, why use it in Cyro instead of an ability that has an upfront heal, ward, and delayed heal? And as I said, mutagen would have purged the dot.

The reason I don't go with a resto staff are two-fold. One, losing a set piece, which means I have to give up either regen or damage on that bar. (Regen is a major consideration in a no CP campaign.) And two, I don't have enough skill slots as it is on DK. Giving up two for mutagen + healing ward is dicey, especially considering I may not even get that ward and my shield may not be big enough to protect it until it pops.

I've actually been playing around with Igneous Shield + Vigor lately. Seems to work better than DB, even on magicka.

DocFrost72

NBrookus wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Spamming an ability that restores at best 20% of your missing health is a horrible idea, as the ability is horribad and needs a rework. In fact, he honestly would have prolly fared better staying up top and spamming burning embers. That's how bad DB is.

That said, if you spend five minutes on a DK you know that, why use it in Cyro instead of an ability that has an upfront heal, ward, and delayed heal? And as I said, mutagen would have purged the dot.

The reason I don't go with a resto staff are two-fold. One, losing a set piece, which means I have to give up either regen or damage on that bar. (Regen is a major consideration in a no CP campaign.) And two, I don't have enough skill slots as it is on DK. Giving up two for mutagen + healing ward is dicey, especially considering I may not even get that ward and my shield may not be big enough to protect it until it pops.

I've actually been playing around with Igneous Shield + Vigor lately. Seems to work better than DB, even on magicka.

I can totally see that reasoning, and respect it. I've never tried MagDKs in cyro, so the best I can offer is stuff you likely know. The best heals in the game come from the resto tree. You do give up a set trait for it. That, however, I tried to change back in 2015. I still to this day think all two handed weapons should give two set piece bonuses.

But to the point, the extra regen didn't seem to help you all that much in that situation. What you needed there was a purge or very strong burst heals to compensate for a tough dot on you in execute range. But again, hindsight is 20/20 so kinda unfair for me to lounge about here at Uni and tell you where you could improve.

I think my point is that there are options, but you went with an option that made you better overall and made a weakness (healing) more acute. I still say DB should just be a one man (self target) BoL, but who knows what zos has planned for u13.

NBrookus

Just clarifying, I'm not the OP, I was just throwing a couple of pennies in about the resto issue.

DKsUnite

I don't want to run resto for heals because blocking with a resto is suicide and my build is centered around perma block and secondly they should fix skills that need fixing. Not wait 1.5 years to legit just let 1 skill by pass battle spirit debuffs and balance an entire class

zuto40

The-Baconator wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Simple, you use stamina for blocking, CC breaking, sprinting, and dodge rolling. If they costed the same, stamina would be at an enormous disadvantage. As it is currently, resource management for magicka is a ton easier unless you're a magDK because whip is stupid expensive.

LOL WUT

my mageblade resource management was much easier in a 1v1 setting then it is on my stamblade, my stamblade however works better in a 1vX setting with management then my mageblade

leepalmer95

Stam haven't run sustain since heavy got buffed.

SirAndy

I'll say it again, we need a 3rd resource for sprint/dodge/block ...

Without that, there will never be a true balance between stamina and magicka.

The-Baconator

zuto40 wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Simple, you use stamina for blocking, CC breaking, sprinting, and dodge rolling. If they costed the same, stamina would be at an enormous disadvantage. As it is currently, resource management for magicka is a ton easier unless you're a magDK because whip is stupid expensive.

LOL WUT

my mageblade resource management was much easier in a 1v1 setting then it is on my stamblade, my stamblade however works better in a 1vX setting with management then my mageblade

Magblade is literally the exception to the rule though, and even then I'd argue in a 1v1 sustain wise a stamblade with siphoning + black rose + redguard makes it insanely close. On my orc stam sorc I can run 1000 recov in medium and sustain just as well as my magicka sorc with 2000 recov in the vast majority of situations and better in situations with ample LoS.

Lokey0024

If they made the health regen bonus from DB stack with major fortitude or adjust the % from DK passives in draconic tree for abilities on the bar make health regen actually matter.

LegacyDM

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Simple, you use stamina for blocking, CC breaking, sprinting, and dodge rolling. If they costed the same, stamina would be at an enormous disadvantage. As it is currently, resource management for magicka is a ton easier unless you're a magDK because whip is stupid expensive.

So simple. What do magicka players use to block, cc break, sprint, and dodge roll?

Resource management easier? what classes do you play? Magicka players have to micromanage two resource pools one of which is limited and flip between healing ward and other skills to maintain survivability. What do you need to do? Line of sight, spam vigor/shuffle/rally and its easy mode. Lol.

Derra

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

I've never been entirely sure why magicka abilities are so costly compared to stamina abilities. Even with the same CP allocation (mind you magicka v. stamina) magicka abilities are much more costly.

Wrobel has no idea what he's doing. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg - which is straight ahead. There comes a point in everyone's life where it's better for the majority if you step down from a position. I believe he's reached this point. Granted most people would never do that.

Simple, you use stamina for blocking, CC breaking, sprinting, and dodge rolling. If they costed the same, stamina would be at an enormous disadvantage. As it is currently, resource management for magicka is a ton easier unless you're a magDK because whip is stupid expensive.

That would maybe be a valid argument if the unchained passive did not exist in it´s current form and if resource poinsons for stamina increased rolldodge, block and breakfree cost aswell.

CMurder435

@DKsUnite I was looking forward to one Tam but your video is a Reminder that I'll still be mdk.. dat was broken. What do you think of the one tamriel update for magicka dks despite what I just witnessed?

Strider_Roshin

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Stam haven't run sustain since heavy got buffed.

Sorry, that was in reference to medium armor users. If you wear heavy you run max food.

WillhelmBlack

Meanwhile my Magplar Wroblstomps across the map of Cyrodiil only stopping at Zerg Squad, a Stam DK or another Magplar.

Until the next balance update I would recommend ditching Igneous and slot Efficient Purge and use a resto for Healing Ward instead of Dragon Blood. I know you already know that Vyr Cor and this video is a perfect showcase of Mag DK and it's an important one but DK heals are just a joke. Purge and shield stack are 5x better when there's no one to heal off of.

Kas

tbh this mostly demonstrates how bad dragon blood is, imho. sure, there are reasons you don't have them at the moment but purge, healing ward, wyrd tree set, etc etc would all have dealt with the dot easily (also flappy wings, ofc). i'm not saying, it's your fault / badly played or something, I'd just say this is more of an issue with dragon blood than with mag vs stam in general

DocFrost72

Kas wrote: »

tbh this mostly demonstrates how bad dragon blood is, imho. sure, there are reasons you don't have them at the moment but purge, healing ward, wyrd tree set, etc etc would all have dealt with the dot easily (also flappy wings, ofc). i'm not saying, it's your fault / badly played are something, I'd just say this is more of an issue with dragon blood than with mag vs stam in general

Pretty much this ^

Bashev

Kas wrote: »

tbh this mostly demonstrates how bad dragon blood is, imho. sure, there are reasons you don't have them at the moment but purge, healing ward, wyrd tree set, etc etc would all have dealt with the dot easily (also flappy wings, ofc). i'm not saying, it's your fault / badly played or something, I'd just say this is more of an issue with dragon blood than with mag vs stam in general

BTW, the wings do not reflect the dot damage from poison injection.

Countcalorie

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Meanwhile my Magplar Wroblstomps across the map of Cyrodiil only stopping at Zerg Squad, a Stam DK or another Magplar.

Wroblstomps. Lol.
True too as I can do the same and Im horrid at pvp.

UppGRAYxDD

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Meanwhile my Magplar Wroblstomps across the map of Cyrodiil only stopping at Zerg Squad, a Stam DK or another Magplar.

Until the next balance update I would recommend ditching Igneous and slot Efficient Purge and use a resto for Healing Ward instead of Dragon Blood. I know you already know that Vyr Cor and this video is a perfect showcase of Mag DK and it's an important one but DK heals are just a joke. Purge and shield stack are 5x better when there's no one to heal off of.

Be careful, you might awaken the "nerf magplar" horde...

DKsUnite

FYI everyone, this wasn't supposed to be a stamina vs. magicka look how unbalanced it is video. This was a complaint about dragon blood, reading over the original topic it isn't 100% clear.

Lexxypwns

If they fix dragon blood to make it a good self heal I'll probably never play anything but mDK