A Final Plea for the Full Justice System - Using Dueling

BrianDavion

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Mic1007 wrote: »

Yeah... no thanks. The griefing would reach ridiculous levels severly quickly.

I do not see how. If it takes at least a notorious level of bounty to even be eligible for a challenge or wearing an enforcer tabard to enable being pounced upon by a thief, then people who are in those states are volunteering for duels. That's all this proposal is saying.

do you realize how EASY it is to reach notorious? I did it last night by ACCIDENT.

Kemono

BoloBoffin wrote: »

The thief running from the dual is instant forfeit of all stolen goods to the enforcer. NPC guards can NOT join this dual. If the thief wins, he or she is instantly transported to the nearest refuge. If the enforcer wins, he or she gets the loot and walks away to the enforcer station for the reward.

How about it, ZOS?

Oh, i see you spent like a LOT of time thinking about this, no?
How about this:
"thief" have a 1 MILION bounty on his head, and absolutly no stolen goods.
What he actually gain when he kill enforcer in the duel ?
Oh wait - a second enforer/ganker waiting for him just on next street corner

btw about section with many entrance from thieves hideouts: ever heard about guild teleports? i guess not -.-'


In short: your system is ganker wet dream: gankers/enforcers get all," thiefs" only griefing/ unwanted pvp fight and stress
You know how this should work?
All enforced that put tabard on them -should be flaged as for 24h, even when they put tabard away.
THEN -all enforcers should be targetable by Blade of Woe, yes a instakill option, no duel.
And killed enforers should be 1 hour locked from the game - so no returning in 5 second from nearest res shrine.
That would be fair

Cos -yeah -if you want "thiefs" to sneak all the time, we can do it (with night mother set you can run in stealth). We can also kill a ton of enforcers on our way, no duel way

BoloBoffin

BrianDavion wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Mic1007 wrote: »

Yeah... no thanks. The griefing would reach ridiculous levels severly quickly.

I do not see how. If it takes at least a notorious level of bounty to even be eligible for a challenge or wearing an enforcer tabard to enable being pounced upon by a thief, then people who are in those states are volunteering for duels. That's all this proposal is saying.

do you realize how EASY it is to reach notorious? I did it last night by ACCIDENT.

I have eight alts and none of them get to notorious unless I'm out thieving. I feel for you.

Daemons_Bane

Forcing people into PvP = broken suggestion..

Forztr

i like the idea of OP if it only applied outside city limits. you murder a farm hand and steal his sheep then face country justice but commit the crime in a city then that's guards work to enforce.

BoloBoffin

Kemono wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

The thief running from the dual is instant forfeit of all stolen goods to the enforcer. NPC guards can NOT join this dual. If the thief wins, he or she is instantly transported to the nearest refuge. If the enforcer wins, he or she gets the loot and walks away to the enforcer station for the reward.

How about it, ZOS?

Oh, i see you spent like a LOT of time thinking about this, no?
How about this:
"thief" have a 1 MILION bounty on his head, and absolutly no stolen goods.
What he actually gain when he kill enforcer in the duel ?
Oh wait - a second enforer/ganker waiting for him just on next street corner

No, he or she gets a free trip into the nearest outlaw refuge. That was in the first post. One enforcer, one thief.

btw about section with many entrance from thieves hideouts: ever heard about guild teleports? i guess not -.-'

The guy who gives you a trip to the refuge if you're being pursued and you can get to him? Yeah. And?

In short: your system is ganker wet dream: gankers/enforcers get all," thiefs" only griefing/ unwanted pvp fight and stress

No. The enforcer would have to challenge - the thief is free to walk away (forfeiting bounty and stolen goods), use clemency, or fight. The thief would actually be able to gank the enforcer.

BoloBoffin

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Forcing people into PvP = broken suggestion..

No one is forcing people to steal. People who mistakenly steal don't get notorious bounties. No one is forcing people to put on a tabard. You folks need a new line.

Daemons_Bane

Are you on shrooms or something.? So your suggestion is walk away and lose everything if you don't want to fight.? And if you don't decline then you can't flee since then you would also lose it.. So with that system, only competent fighters can be thieves.. Bravo.....

BoloBoffin

Forztr wrote: »

i like the idea of OP if it only applied outside city limits. you murder a farm hand and steal his sheep then face country justice but commit the crime in a city then that's guards work to enforce.

The cities are full of people duelling right now. This would be one more duel among a dozen or so going on at the same time.

helediron

OP, what prevents you doing it right now? You have justice system and duels. Make two guilds, tabards mark players to either side, agree rules and go.

BenLocoDete

It seems Paul Sage was cast out but left a wound will never heal.

Bouldercleave

helediron wrote: »

OP, what prevents you doing it right now? You have justice system and duels. Make two guilds, tabards mark players to either side, agree rules and go.

What prevents it is that there is nothing in it for him to take from the other player. No one would buy into it with ZERO reward.

BrianDavion

Bouldercleave wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

OP, what prevents you doing it right now? You have justice system and duels. Make two guilds, tabards mark players to either side, agree rules and go.

What prevents it is that there is nothing in it for him to take from the other player. No one would buy into it with ZERO reward.

they would if it was all about fun and immersion as opposed to just looting some poor guys corpse.

BoloBoffin

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Are you on shrooms or something.? So your suggestion is walk away and lose everything if you don't want to fight.? And if you don't decline then you can't flee since then you would also lose it.. So with that system, only competent fighters can be thieves.. Bravo.....

Or maybe you could improve your thieving skills and not incur bounties.

Myrrdinn2014

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

i like the idea of OP if it only applied outside city limits. you murder a farm hand and steal his sheep then face country justice but commit the crime in a city then that's guards work to enforce.

The cities are full of people duelling right now. This would be one more duel among a dozen or so going on at the same time.

Actually there is a whole freaking DLC forcing us to steal so yeah no. And for like the millionth time duels are not pvp they are a optional agreement between two players its not forced in anyway whatsoever.

Bouldercleave

BrianDavion wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

OP, what prevents you doing it right now? You have justice system and duels. Make two guilds, tabards mark players to either side, agree rules and go.

What prevents it is that there is nothing in it for him to take from the other player. No one would buy into it with ZERO reward.

they would if it was all about fun and immersion as opposed to just looting some poor guys corpse.

Gankers could care less about immersion - their only fun would be for the kill and the loot.

BoloBoffin

Myrrdinn2014 wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

i like the idea of OP if it only applied outside city limits. you murder a farm hand and steal his sheep then face country justice but commit the crime in a city then that's guards work to enforce.

The cities are full of people duelling right now. This would be one more duel among a dozen or so going on at the same time.

Actually there is a whole freaking DLC forcing us to steal so yeah no. And for like the millionth time duels are not pvp they are a optional agreement between two players its not forced in anyway whatsoever.

I have a different version of the game then. Mine, I only steal when I want to. I manage any incurring bounties easily. If I were you, I'd see about downloading that version of the game.

Duels are PvP. I can't understand how you could claim otherwise.

Myrrdinn2014

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Myrrdinn2014 wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

i like the idea of OP if it only applied outside city limits. you murder a farm hand and steal his sheep then face country justice but commit the crime in a city then that's guards work to enforce.

The cities are full of people duelling right now. This would be one more duel among a dozen or so going on at the same time.

Actually there is a whole freaking DLC forcing us to steal so yeah no. And for like the millionth time duels are not pvp they are a optional agreement between two players its not forced in anyway whatsoever.

I have a different version of the game then. Mine, I only steal when I want to. I manage any incurring bounties easily. If I were you, I'd see about downloading that version of the game.

Duels are PvP. I can't understand how you could claim otherwise.

Your choice to see things that way entierly up to you.

RAGUNAnoOne

BrianDavion wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Mic1007 wrote: »

Yeah... no thanks. The griefing would reach ridiculous levels severly quickly.

I do not see how. If it takes at least a notorious level of bounty to even be eligible for a challenge or wearing an enforcer tabard to enable being pounced upon by a thief, then people who are in those states are volunteering for duels. That's all this proposal is saying.

do you realize how EASY it is to reach notorious? I did it last night by ACCIDENT.

THIS I tried to cancel a conversation lag came in next thing I know I force pulse a civilian and I get almost max heat!

MakoFore

u literally sound like the worst kind of policemen in the world.
a guy who has more weapons picking on weaker newer players and taking their loot? u sad sad man. I'm only joking of course- but seriously - people cannot be trusted to enforce anything. give players power- and it will go wrong fast. i would prefer to hand over my rights to sky net thank you very much...

Misa

I'd agree to this IF
1. this can only be done outside cities, the cities already has guards and doesn't need player enforcers.
2. if a player enforcer loses to the thief the thief will be able to loot the player for a random item including worn gear.
3. a thief that flees should not lose stolen items. if I remember right it's against the lore for a thief to commit murder too?

When you join the Thieves Guild you are given three rules by which you must abide:

First, never steal from another member of the guild.

Second, never kill anyone on the job. This is not the Dark Brotherhood. Animals and monsters can be slain if necessary.

Third, don't steal from the poor.

Digiman

Sounds like a nice idea at first but then enforcers will just camp outlaw refuges to grief players.

The reason why this was scrapped was because it caused to much griefing to begin with for both sides.

JKorr

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »

BoloBoffin wrote: »

It seems simple now that I've seen it. Make it so people with active bounties can't refuse a duel from a player with an enforcer tabard. The tabard would give the enforcer the ability to see people with bounties (glowing yellow), but if the thief is sneaking, it's subject to detection mechanics. And the enforcer should have a glow and a red hovering eye (similar to NPC lookouts) visible only to thieves with bounties.

If the enforcer spots a thief and gets a duel request off within a certain range (20 meters?), the dual begins with a special Justice flag for the fight area. The thief running from the dual is instant forfeit of all stolen goods to the enforcer. NPC guards can NOT join this dual. If the thief wins, he or she is instantly transported to the nearest refuge. If the enforcer wins, he or she gets the loot and walks away to the enforcer station for the reward.

How about it, ZOS?

When will it finally get through to people like you, that most people do not want to see this happen and it is not going to happen?

How would what I've proposed be different from the dueling you see now? The only way you'd know it was a Justice duel is a Justice flag for the participants.

um...because the dueling we are forced to watch now is consented to by both parties involved?

JKorr

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Mic1007 wrote: »

Yeah... no thanks. The griefing would reach ridiculous levels severly quickly.

I do not see how. If it takes at least a notorious level of bounty to even be eligible for a challenge or wearing an enforcer tabard to enable being pounced upon by a thief, then people who are in those states are volunteering for duels. That's all this proposal is saying.

No, the people with bounties aren't volunteering for pvp. The people with bounties are playing pve mechanics in the game. They may or may not be good at carrying out the mechanics without getting caught, but they aren't volunteering for pvp.

Doctordarkspawn

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

What part of No Forcing Players to do anything dont you or any of your pro PvP Justice System advocates understand?

I mean, Hello...Mcfly!

This.

Stop trying to force it down our throats. WE WILL NOT SUBJECT TO BEING YOUR GANK FODDER. -STOP TRYING TO MAKE US YOUR GANK FODDER-.

Doctordarkspawn

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Forcing people into PvP = broken suggestion..

No one is forcing people to steal. People who mistakenly steal don't get notorious bounties. No one is forcing people to put on a tabard. You folks need a new line.

Yet you will be forcing us to abandon content for the sake of your gank kingdom.

I do this to make money, not to be an accessory to your PVP wonderland where we are all draged in reguardless of consent. Get out, go play age of Conan, where there are servers -specifically- for your type of person. Quit trying to force this game to conform to your standards, when others allready do.

Quelhallow

This idea would not work in a game that is 90% PVE.

And, if it was somehow implemented, the 'Justice Brigade' might be biting off more than they could chew. Their dreams of ganking new players would come to a crashing halt as many of us regular PvPers would go incognito on our low level characters, rolling around with a bounty on our heads, waiting for these so-called 'enforcers' with their fancy tight outfits to come and 'do justice' in the name of Ego.

If you want to PvP, go to Cyrodiil. If you want to test your new build and/or kill some dirty elf-loving AD who have stupidly shown up in Mournhold all drunk on their girly drinks with little umbrellas in them, challenge them to a duel. Two ways to fight. Three if you use your words.

On a side note: I'm lovin the auto-decline feature for dueling. Just need a /tapemeasure emote as I watch these fools fight in the middle of town while I'm trying to do legitimate business. Though, now that I think about it, I don't think they design tape measures that small. C'est la vie!

Taternater

Forced pvp is always bad because there will be players who attack other players who aren't strong enough to fight back to get in touch with their inner sociopath. It's really a shame because the idea of trying my best to avoid getting a bounty, and maybe farm those bounty reducing items from the thieves guild dlc would be fun. As would using that skill from the thieves guild line that makes a footpad appear nearby when I'm in combat with a bounty and suddenly I warp to the refuge while the bounty hunter is about to land his death blow. There would be a lot of potential for cat and mouse style gameplay with the mouse trying to sneak by the cat to steal the cheese while the cat's looking for his own meal. However having played on a pvp server in wow I know that for every pvper who's out to have honorable fun, there's a max level rogue who kills my lower level hunter and then hides behind a tree so he can kill me again when I respawn.

Daemons_Bane

BoloBoffin wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Are you on shrooms or something.? So your suggestion is walk away and lose everything if you don't want to fight.? And if you don't decline then you can't flee since then you would also lose it.. So with that system, only competent fighters can be thieves.. Bravo.....

Or maybe you could improve your thieving skills and not incur bounties.

My thieving skills is not in question here.. I'm as good as everyone else, with the achievements to match.. What IS in question, is your proposal.. And it's not good.. Your suggestion will radically alter a PvE mechanic that people have paid for, and expect to stay reasonably the same.. What you call "volunteering" is in fact forcing.. Reaching x bounty is not volunteering, as that person is doing a PvE mechanic that should not force him into PvP activities.. The die hard PvP'ers usually think that this is the same, even though even more reasonably minded PvP'ers have agreed that it's in fact forcing.. These suggestions are not going to be welcomed into the general PvE crowd before you realize, and accept, that it must be 100% voluntary..

ElBiggus

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

BrianDavion wrote: »

do you realize how EASY it is to reach notorious? I did it last night by ACCIDENT.

THIS I tried to cancel a conversation lag came in next thing I know I force pulse a civilian and I get almost max heat!

I was doing one of those "challenge some NPCs to a duel to prove your might" quests and forgot I had "target civilians" turned on (I'd just done an assassin quest), and during the fight I accidentally blasted a civilian into a million pieces with Crystal Fragments, and from there it escalated rather quickly...