Are proc sets out of control?

Dojohoda

I normally play on a Magicka toon in PvP, but last night, I played on a stamina toon. Stamina is very effective, many kills; skills work inside the long tunnel of many negates and, at least once, my ARMOR got a killing blow.

I really want to play on my Magicka toon ( it's my main PvP toon, a Brigadier), but after last night ...

lolo_01b16_ESO

Nay

I don't think the sets are out of controll. In my opinion the opposite is the problem. Zos wants too much control and puts long cooldowns on sets. As a result they have to make the procs very strong which results in the current builds.
In my opinion less control (= shorter cooldowns or even no coldowns) would help balancing those sets for pvp without making them useless for pve.
Let's take velidreth as an example. It has a 10s cooldown, so you proc it on average about every 12s. For the set to do 1k dps it has to deal 12k damage per hit. If you want 1.5k dps from the set, the proc needs to hit for 18k. Now if you would lower the cooldown to 1-2s or remove it completely, the proc could be lowered to 2-4k while keeping the sets dps the same.

Wreuntzylla

Yay

lappas wrote: »

Its not op stop calling for nerfs on everything do you not understand you are ruining the game? These guys only build for dmg and after that inital burst i laugh and taket them down quite quickly. Just because you do not know how to counter certain builds does not make it op.

I'm all ears. What's your counter for Veli + Viper out of stealth? Aside from 35k health.

Waffennacht

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

lappas wrote: »

Its not op stop calling for nerfs on everything do you not understand you are ruining the game? These guys only build for dmg and after that inital burst i laugh and taket them down quite quickly. Just because you do not know how to counter certain builds does not make it op.

I'm all ears. What's your counter for Veli + Viper out of stealth? Aside from 35k health.

Shuffle + Dodge Roll lmao

Lava_Croft

Yay

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

lappas wrote: »

Its not op stop calling for nerfs on everything do you not understand you are ruining the game? These guys only build for dmg and after that inital burst i laugh and taket them down quite quickly. Just because you do not know how to counter certain builds does not make it op.

I'm all ears. What's your counter for Veli + Viper out of stealth? Aside from 35k health.

Shuffle + Dodge Roll lmao

I would say wear heavy armor and hold block, but as I've found out all this Stamina damage doesn't give a flying *** about armor.

visionality

Yay

I'm totally ok with proc sets - even guaranteed ones - but they shouldnt be the decisive factor in a fight player vs player. Whether it be viper/velidreth for stam users or vicious death for magica builds, it feels wrong when the set hits harder than the player himself.

(Same goes for Malubeth and healing.)

lappas

Nay

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

lappas wrote: »

Its not op stop calling for nerfs on everything do you not understand you are ruining the game? These guys only build for dmg and after that inital burst i laugh and taket them down quite quickly. Just because you do not know how to counter certain builds does not make it op.

I'm all ears. What's your counter for Veli + Viper out of stealth? Aside from 35k health.

All impenetrable and heavy armor works just fine but you dont even have to go that far. IF you run 7 l divines dont cry bc you get one shotted.

Methariorn

Nay

Crap I hit the wrong vote key xD. Imho proc sets should not stack at last: it's not very fun when you got hit with viper + veli + widowmaker. Coupled with inc. strike + surprise attack is a death sentence far too many time.

Beepbeep

I love when they proc off a siege too! Lol. Working as intended.

WillhelmBlack

Yay

Why play when you can proc?

Alucardo

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Why play when you can proc?

It's like pressing caps lock AND NOT WORRYING ABOUT HAVING TO HOLD DOWN YOUR SHIFT KEY WHEN YOU PRESS A BUNCH OF KEYS

kuro-dono

Yay

Alucardo wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Why play when you can proc?

It's like pressing caps lock AND NOT WORRYING ABOUT HAVING TO HOLD DOWN YOUR SHIFT KEY WHEN YOU PRESS A BUNCH OF KEYS

very nice example!

I felt so embarrassed playing my stamina templar when i was grinding to get my ava abilities unlocked by having my Velidreth procs kill way more ppl than i killed with my skills

Waffennacht

I don't feel bad using skoria...

Maybe I should...

But I don't...

Moltyr

Nay

caperon wrote: »

Anyone who has visited Cyrodiil latelly must have experienced the beauty of proc sets. Yesterday i was in Azura (no CP) i wear 5 heavy impen pieces and got opened by a nb with a heavy atack (4.3k dmg) that p`roced Velidreth (6.4k dmg) and red mountain (4.2k dmg) fora total of 15k instant dmg. In my opinion thats a problem, making everyone run instakill proc builds or cancer builds (reactive, malubeth, permablocking blackrose).

We are at 1.6 again, this time because wrong itemiation decisions, so, are proc sets out of control?

Everyone running a bunch of impen/heavy zerg tanking builds is just as cancer...if not more so than gank builds.

caperon

Yay

Moltyr wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Anyone who has visited Cyrodiil latelly must have experienced the beauty of proc sets. Yesterday i was in Azura (no CP) i wear 5 heavy impen pieces and got opened by a nb with a heavy atack (4.3k dmg) that p`roced Velidreth (6.4k dmg) and red mountain (4.2k dmg) fora total of 15k instant dmg. In my opinion thats a problem, making everyone run instakill proc builds or cancer builds (reactive, malubeth, permablocking blackrose).

We are at 1.6 again, this time because wrong itemiation decisions, so, are proc sets out of control?

Everyone running a bunch of impen/heavy zerg tanking builds is just as cancer...if not more so than gank builds.

No, its not as just as cancer. The problem with gank proc builds is they don't allow any counterplay, you get jumped in, you are dead, oh, so much fun! Gameplay should allow to counterplay and decisions, letting utilize your habilities in the apropiate way, often called "skill". Proc sets have non of that. Cancer tank buils kill much less and can be countered with poisons, health debuf and negates.

Battle spirit was increased because time to kill was too low. Well, we are in the same spot again.

Sureshawt

Yay

I don't care for PvP battles to be determined by random chance procs. It is okay to have them but they need to be toned down and not the be the major factor in the the outcome.

I prefer PvP to be about judgement, awareness, knowledge, quick decisions and tactics which all combine into what most of us would call player skill.

This game continues to move away from skilled play towards more gimmickry which is a shame imho.

arkansas_ESO

Yay

https://youtu.be/uGkCsxeeCUQ?t=2m44s

Go to 2 minutes 45 seconds. 2.1k Poison Injection procs a 470 Creeping Ravage Health and a 636 Ravage Health, which procs a 6.5k Widowmaker, which procs a 3.6k Viper's Sting, which procs a 826 Poisoned. 12,032 instant damage from range, on top of two DOTs and 60% increased resource costs, all from them hitting one button. Proc sets really, really need a rebalancing. And, no, giving magic equally unbalanced proc sets isn't balance.

arkansas_ESO

Yay

Erock25 wrote: »

lappas wrote: »

Its not op stop calling for nerfs on everything do you not understand you are ruining the game? These guys only build for dmg and after that inital burst i laugh and taket them down quite quickly. Just because you do not know how to counter certain builds does not make it op.

They actually build for sustain and rely on their procs for dmg.

Exactly. You're not running Hunding's with Viper and Veli, you're running a regen-focused set like Eternal Hunt or Black Rose. Sustain isn't an issue for proc builds.

Kas

Yay

hell yeah (just don't forget the include skoria now), i think they're totally out of control. however, i don't complain, I use them whenever possible. would be fine with that fact being changed, though

CapuchinSeven

Yay

lappas wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

lappas wrote: »

Its not op stop calling for nerfs on everything do you not understand you are ruining the game? These guys only build for dmg and after that inital burst i laugh and taket them down quite quickly. Just because you do not know how to counter certain builds does not make it op.

I'm all ears. What's your counter for Veli + Viper out of stealth? Aside from 35k health.

All impenetrable and heavy armor works just fine but you dont even have to go that far. IF you run 7 l divines dont cry bc you get one shotted.

So basically you're saying, don't run magicka on any class other than a Templar because if you don't run all stats in magic and without divines then you're never going to have the damage anywhere near the stamina proct sets.

So every one should either be in heavy armour, with impenetrable, holding block and killing nothing, OR running around killing their targets before they've even rendered from stealth.

Lava_Croft

Yay

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

So every one should either be in heavy armour, with impenetrable, holding block and killing nothing, OR running around killing their targets before they've even rendered from stealth.

You just described Wrobalance.

Wycks

Yay

It just plain stupid that procs now do more dmg then skills.

And it's much worse in 1T.

TheBonesXXX

Yay

Not enough PvP sets in PvP, imo.

Cyrodiils Light, reduces Player Damage by 5%, more sets like this need to come into play.

Lucius_Aelius

Yay

I have a problem with them as they are, but I like the idea of someone above to have it be something that happens more often for less damage, especially if RNG is taken out of consideration and these sets work more like Molag Kena with a fixed proc function. One proc set isn't a problem but multiple being used together is, the issue becomes that if you get really lucky they can all proc in a very short time, perhaps all at once, and that just from someone light-attacking or some such.

It's one thing for something like Kena to proc like that, it does no damage of its own and just buffs your other attacks (with a balancing trade-off), but these proc sets have massive damage with no real trade-offs besides that you can get unlucky and not have them proc all at once, which isn't much of a trade-off since they still do lots of damage and most players will still be using other damaging skills. Bursting is the easiest way to kill someone, but sustained damage can get the job done too, and multiple proc sets do sustained damage no matter what and, if the user gets lucky, massive burst damage too if they go all at once.

RNG should not be the determining factor in a fight, and I think all sets and even perhaps all abilities with RNG procs should have RNG removed and replaced with a fixed proc function that is consistent and doesn't allow multiple high-damaging attacks to proc at the same time.

Lava_Croft

Yay

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I have a problem with them as they are, but I like the idea of someone above to have it be something that happens more often for less damage, especially if RNG is taken out of consideration and these sets work more like Molag Kena with a fixed proc function. One proc set isn't a problem but multiple being used together is, the issue becomes that if you get really lucky they can all proc in a very short time, perhaps all at once, and that just from someone light-attacking or some such.

It's one thing for something like Kena to proc like that, it does no damage of its own and just buffs your other attacks (with a balancing trade-off), but these proc sets have massive damage with no real trade-offs besides that you can get unlucky and not have them proc all at once, which isn't much of a trade-off since they still do lots of damage and most players will still be using other damaging skills. Bursting is the easiest way to kill someone, but sustained damage can get the job done too, and multiple proc sets do sustained damage no matter what and, if the user gets lucky, massive burst damage too if they go all at once.

RNG should not be the determining factor in a fight, and I think all sets and even perhaps all abilities with RNG procs should have RNG removed and replaced with a fixed proc function that is consistent and doesn't allow multiple high-damaging attacks to proc at the same time.

This is too difficult for the people who Wrobel design the proc trash for.

ToRelax

Yay

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I have a problem with them as they are, but I like the idea of someone above to have it be something that happens more often for less damage, especially if RNG is taken out of consideration and these sets work more like Molag Kena with a fixed proc function. One proc set isn't a problem but multiple being used together is, the issue becomes that if you get really lucky they can all proc in a very short time, perhaps all at once, and that just from someone light-attacking or some such.

It's one thing for something like Kena to proc like that, it does no damage of its own and just buffs your other attacks (with a balancing trade-off), but these proc sets have massive damage with no real trade-offs besides that you can get unlucky and not have them proc all at once, which isn't much of a trade-off since they still do lots of damage and most players will still be using other damaging skills. Bursting is the easiest way to kill someone, but sustained damage can get the job done too, and multiple proc sets do sustained damage no matter what and, if the user gets lucky, massive burst damage too if they go all at once.

RNG should not be the determining factor in a fight, and I think all sets and even perhaps all abilities with RNG procs should have RNG removed and replaced with a fixed proc function that is consistent and doesn't allow multiple high-damaging attacks to proc at the same time.

I'll emphasize the less damage part again. Viper is just as much, if not even more so a problem than other proc sets exactly because it does not rely on RNG but still deals considerable damage and can not be countered other than simply having high hp pool/resistances/shield values. It is very easy to combine with skills, in fact you don't have to do anything for it and it has a very short cooldown as well.
In my opinion, proc sets should only provide utility and resource management - think of sets like Warlock, Death's Wind, or Vampire's Kiss. If there is damage, it should be a small side effect and preferebly run on a long cooldown to not be a deciding factor.

Lava_Croft

Yay

ToRelax wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I have a problem with them as they are, but I like the idea of someone above to have it be something that happens more often for less damage, especially if RNG is taken out of consideration and these sets work more like Molag Kena with a fixed proc function. One proc set isn't a problem but multiple being used together is, the issue becomes that if you get really lucky they can all proc in a very short time, perhaps all at once, and that just from someone light-attacking or some such.

It's one thing for something like Kena to proc like that, it does no damage of its own and just buffs your other attacks (with a balancing trade-off), but these proc sets have massive damage with no real trade-offs besides that you can get unlucky and not have them proc all at once, which isn't much of a trade-off since they still do lots of damage and most players will still be using other damaging skills. Bursting is the easiest way to kill someone, but sustained damage can get the job done too, and multiple proc sets do sustained damage no matter what and, if the user gets lucky, massive burst damage too if they go all at once.

RNG should not be the determining factor in a fight, and I think all sets and even perhaps all abilities with RNG procs should have RNG removed and replaced with a fixed proc function that is consistent and doesn't allow multiple high-damaging attacks to proc at the same time.

I'll emphasize the less damage part again. Viper is just as much, if not even more so a problem than other proc sets exactly because it does not rely on RNG but still deals considerable damage and can not be countered other than simply having high hp pool/resistances/shield values. It is very easy to combine with skills, in fact you don't have to do anything for it and it has a very short cooldown as well.
In my opinion, proc sets should only provide utility and resource management - think of sets like Warlock, Death's Wind, or Vampire's Kiss. If there is damage, it should be a small side effect and preferebly run on a long cooldown to not be a deciding factor.

I concur. The consistency with which Viper procs make up nearly half of my death recaps is alarming to say the least.

I bet it's all working as intended from Wrobel's point of view though.

Lucius_Aelius

Yay

ToRelax wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I have a problem with them as they are, but I like the idea of someone above to have it be something that happens more often for less damage, especially if RNG is taken out of consideration and these sets work more like Molag Kena with a fixed proc function. One proc set isn't a problem but multiple being used together is, the issue becomes that if you get really lucky they can all proc in a very short time, perhaps all at once, and that just from someone light-attacking or some such.

It's one thing for something like Kena to proc like that, it does no damage of its own and just buffs your other attacks (with a balancing trade-off), but these proc sets have massive damage with no real trade-offs besides that you can get unlucky and not have them proc all at once, which isn't much of a trade-off since they still do lots of damage and most players will still be using other damaging skills. Bursting is the easiest way to kill someone, but sustained damage can get the job done too, and multiple proc sets do sustained damage no matter what and, if the user gets lucky, massive burst damage too if they go all at once.

RNG should not be the determining factor in a fight, and I think all sets and even perhaps all abilities with RNG procs should have RNG removed and replaced with a fixed proc function that is consistent and doesn't allow multiple high-damaging attacks to proc at the same time.

I'll emphasize the less damage part again. Viper is just as much, if not even more so a problem than other proc sets exactly because it does not rely on RNG but still deals considerable damage and can not be countered other than simply having high hp pool/resistances/shield values. It is very easy to combine with skills, in fact you don't have to do anything for it and it has a very short cooldown as well.
In my opinion, proc sets should only provide utility and resource management - think of sets like Warlock, Death's Wind, or Vampire's Kiss. If there is damage, it should be a small side effect and preferebly run on a long cooldown to not be a deciding factor.

I did say less damage more often right at the start, the other bit was just carrying the idea forward since RNG does determine a lot of procs and I don't think it should, but none of the rest of what I said was meant to detract from that first point.

ToRelax

Yay

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I have a problem with them as they are, but I like the idea of someone above to have it be something that happens more often for less damage, especially if RNG is taken out of consideration and these sets work more like Molag Kena with a fixed proc function. One proc set isn't a problem but multiple being used together is, the issue becomes that if you get really lucky they can all proc in a very short time, perhaps all at once, and that just from someone light-attacking or some such.

It's one thing for something like Kena to proc like that, it does no damage of its own and just buffs your other attacks (with a balancing trade-off), but these proc sets have massive damage with no real trade-offs besides that you can get unlucky and not have them proc all at once, which isn't much of a trade-off since they still do lots of damage and most players will still be using other damaging skills. Bursting is the easiest way to kill someone, but sustained damage can get the job done too, and multiple proc sets do sustained damage no matter what and, if the user gets lucky, massive burst damage too if they go all at once.

RNG should not be the determining factor in a fight, and I think all sets and even perhaps all abilities with RNG procs should have RNG removed and replaced with a fixed proc function that is consistent and doesn't allow multiple high-damaging attacks to proc at the same time.

I'll emphasize the less damage part again. Viper is just as much, if not even more so a problem than other proc sets exactly because it does not rely on RNG but still deals considerable damage and can not be countered other than simply having high hp pool/resistances/shield values. It is very easy to combine with skills, in fact you don't have to do anything for it and it has a very short cooldown as well.
In my opinion, proc sets should only provide utility and resource management - think of sets like Warlock, Death's Wind, or Vampire's Kiss. If there is damage, it should be a small side effect and preferebly run on a long cooldown to not be a deciding factor.

I did say less damage more often right at the start, the other bit was just carrying the idea forward since RNG does determine a lot of procs and I don't think it should, but none of the rest of what I said was meant to detract from that first point.

Uhm, yeah? That's why I said I'd emphasize that part.

Lucius_Aelius

Yay

ToRelax wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I have a problem with them as they are, but I like the idea of someone above to have it be something that happens more often for less damage, especially if RNG is taken out of consideration and these sets work more like Molag Kena with a fixed proc function. One proc set isn't a problem but multiple being used together is, the issue becomes that if you get really lucky they can all proc in a very short time, perhaps all at once, and that just from someone light-attacking or some such.

It's one thing for something like Kena to proc like that, it does no damage of its own and just buffs your other attacks (with a balancing trade-off), but these proc sets have massive damage with no real trade-offs besides that you can get unlucky and not have them proc all at once, which isn't much of a trade-off since they still do lots of damage and most players will still be using other damaging skills. Bursting is the easiest way to kill someone, but sustained damage can get the job done too, and multiple proc sets do sustained damage no matter what and, if the user gets lucky, massive burst damage too if they go all at once.

RNG should not be the determining factor in a fight, and I think all sets and even perhaps all abilities with RNG procs should have RNG removed and replaced with a fixed proc function that is consistent and doesn't allow multiple high-damaging attacks to proc at the same time.

I'll emphasize the less damage part again. Viper is just as much, if not even more so a problem than other proc sets exactly because it does not rely on RNG but still deals considerable damage and can not be countered other than simply having high hp pool/resistances/shield values. It is very easy to combine with skills, in fact you don't have to do anything for it and it has a very short cooldown as well.
In my opinion, proc sets should only provide utility and resource management - think of sets like Warlock, Death's Wind, or Vampire's Kiss. If there is damage, it should be a small side effect and preferebly run on a long cooldown to not be a deciding factor.

I did say less damage more often right at the start, the other bit was just carrying the idea forward since RNG does determine a lot of procs and I don't think it should, but none of the rest of what I said was meant to detract from that first point.

Uhm, yeah? That's why I said I'd emphasize that part.

Okay I misunderstood, I thought you were someone who said something like that already and were saying I hadn't emphasized that point enough, nevermind then.