Don't allow premades vs pugs in upcoming battlegrounds please

Loves_guars

Pleeeease. In other games it negates all the fun in small scale pvp to the point that it ruins it, either if you are in the premade (too easy) or in the pug group.

Stratforge

Are we getting battlegrounds?

Kas

even more importantly, add a ranking and match lowly ranked players/groups against lowly ranked once and highly ranked ones against highly ranked ones. i don't think bg's would be very lively if players trying out arenas for the first time would have to fight a group that's trying to be megaserver's #1

timidobserver

It takes most games years to deal with this issue. It was a constant issue in swtor when I played that game. Hopefully ZOS gets ahead of this ccommon issue.

CapuchinSeven

This can be a pain, there are those that love the easy mode and will defend it but if I'm in a PUG I want to fight PUGs and if I'm in a premade I want to fight premades, I don't want easy mode.

Loves_guars

Stratforge wrote: »

Are we getting battlegrounds?

Brian Wheeler, from this interview: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/10827/Brian-Wheeler-on-PvP-Changes-Additions-in-The-Dark-Brotherhood.html:

"Cyrodiil, Imperial City and the Sewers have a lot of PVP options for players, both large-scale and small-scale, but that doesn’t mean we are done. We want to give small-scale PVP its due, and we have plans for a dueling system that we’ll get in at some point — and of course long term we will be adding battlegrounds."

Vrathak

Kas wrote: »

even more importantly, add a ranking and match lowly ranked players/groups against lowly ranked once and highly ranked ones against highly ranked ones. i don't think bg's would be very lively if players trying out arenas for the first time would have to fight a group that's trying to be megaserver's #1

That wont change a thing. A lot of high class PvPers come in low rank first you know?

timidobserver

Vrathak wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

even more importantly, add a ranking and match lowly ranked players/groups against lowly ranked once and highly ranked ones against highly ranked ones. i don't think bg's would be very lively if players trying out arenas for the first time would have to fight a group that's trying to be megaserver's #1

That wont change a thing. A lot of high class PvPers come in low rank first you know?

It ends up working out as the system matures.

Ashamray

Playing WoW right now.
I used to be sure that teso need BG's. Now I'm not)

Swainburg

Okay I'm sorry can someone PLEASE DEFINE PUG

Loves_guars

Swainburg wrote: »

Okay I'm sorry can someone PLEASE DEFINE PUG

For me PUG is when someone queues alone for a group activity. There are others that speak of pugs as synonymous of bad or casual players for some reason but that's not true. There can be good pugs. But, even in the extreme weird case of having a team full of GOOD pugs against a premade group there is an unbalance, 'cause the later is well organized, they know each other and probably are using a voice chat program.

And yes a rating system would be awesome too to help the more inexperienced players!

Kas

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Swainburg wrote: »

Okay I'm sorry can someone PLEASE DEFINE PUG

For me PUG is when someone queues alone for a group activity. There are others that speak of pugs as synonymous of bad or casual players for some reason but that's not true. There can be good pugs. But, even in the extreme weird case of having a team full of GOOD pugs against a premade group there is an unbalance, 'cause the later is well organized, they know each other and probably are using a voice chat program.

And yes a rating system would be awesome too to help the more inexperienced players!

i'm pretty sure there is a group of ~50 players on EU where, assuming a solo queue mechanism, if 4 would be matched together at random (and even with classes/builds that don't fit together very well) and fight a pre-made of 4 guild mates who usually don't move out in groups smaller than 15, they'd eat them alive. I guess it'd be the same for NA.
It's easy to copy+paste a TS IP+pwd and join. Apart from that, most know each others builds from duels or fighting together/against each other inside out. Further, ZOS could even add console's voice chat.

We XvY (X < Y) "premade" guild groups regularly without a leader, proper communication or any kind of game-plan and often one of us is on the phone in the meantime and then there's also people like @pjwb16_ESO who you just have to mute on certain days to keep your sanity :P ^^ Add someone equally experienced who usually plays with other groups and it works just as well.

The current disparity between pick-up groups and pre-mades is mostly that experienced players want to play with each other and avoid public groups like the plague. If there was a specific "solo-queue" rank you could work on, this would be different. Personally, I'd also love the social aspect. Much easier for new players who improve to get to play with experienced players and form friendships, and maybe join guilds. Maybe less people who try to suck up to others in zonechat.

Imho it's a much bigger thing if you let your average (often elder) relaxed, for-fun player (even if some are AR 40+++), or worse, casual pvp newbie, go against players who legitimately want to compete for the very top of the megaserver's food chain. This will cause frustration to no end. If every win lets you rise in points, but every loss on the other hand means you get easier enemies next time, that's a big improvement. Sure, people still complain about matchmaking all the time. But without it, BGs will have too few people playing there and long waiting times will drive away the last few that wanted to play there.

roarr

oh god, let those battlegrounds be player capped

Asardes

Speaking of PuGs: Earlier this week I was LFM-ing DDs and Healer in Mournhold (EU-PC server), with me being the tank, for VCoS gold pledge. A stamina sorcerer joined first, then came a stamina NB and the Templar healer. All were max CP and had run the dungeon before. Generally the area is full of *531 players. At some point just before engaging the first group of enemies the healer was teasing the sorc, telling him that he'll die a lot with his 16K health. Then he linked the no death achievement in chat, then the VMoL one. He is from a certain guild having to do with a gentle simple minded giant from a popular TV series

altemriel

yes battle grounds, aka small-scale PVP arenas are in production ZOS confirmed longer ago


so far, comming in August with One Tamriel, we will become dueling and the 1v1 dueling arena ("Hammerdeath arena"), but 1vX or XvX arenas are still in production

Jaronking

Hopefully they balanced classes by than.Right now all of the top teams will just be running the same group comprehension.1stamplar,1stamDK,magDK,Magplar.Or 1 stamDk 1,stamplar,1 stamDK tank,Magplar or the worst 4 magica templars all rotating Templar ultimates and running reactive.

Docmandu

Just play in Cyrodiil, issue fixed. Timed battlegrounds is the worst invention added to these kinds of games imho.

mcurley

Swainburg wrote: »

Okay I'm sorry can someone PLEASE DEFINE PUG

PUG is an acronym for "pick up group"

It has become very common to refer to players as PUGs, though. A player who you call a PUG is typically just someone you do not know to be a "good" player.

Ashamray

Honestly I'd prefer more pvp activities in Cyrodiil, City and sewers with adecuate rewards (gold, fat AP ticks. bunch of tel var stones etc, but no useless sets and all that crap)

Asardes

Yep, right now PvP is a bit bland and very simplistic. It basically all boils down to:
- farming APs for end campaign rewards, which often boils down to ZvZ (zerg vs. zerg)
- controlling resources for enough time to earn the points towards campaign win
Most people just concentrate on the former; and the latter can be achieved with the coordination and intellectual level of a 7 year old.

Make it smarter, so more complex strategy matters.

mcurley

I think they should definitely have a match making system that allows for randomly assigned group and premade group options. It would be quite frustrating to players who mostly play solo if this option was left out. I don't imagine having a "premade" leader board and a "random" leader board would be too difficult to implement.

Very much so looking forward to these structured battles... now I just need to get more CP... unless we can have a no-CP BG option!! **Activates Flame Shield**

Rykmaar

Battlegrounds? We're getting battlegrounds?

Hang on a moment for me to contain excitement....

*stoic face*

Okay, the solution to this will be two leagues. Randoms and ranked. Ranked gives titles, unique currency to buy stuff from unique battleground vendors, a little gold, and a soul gem. Random gives a little gold, soul gem, and the unique currency too, albeit less --- I feel that there should be different currencies between ranked and normal with different loot tables from the vendors.

Jaronking

All I know is my Squad going rekt every group we face on Xbox isn't that right @Ron_Burgundy_79 and @texassob .

mcurley

Rykmaar wrote: »

Battlegrounds? We're getting battlegrounds?

Hang on a moment for me to contain excitement....

*stoic face*

Okay, the solution to this will be two leagues. Randoms and ranked. Ranked gives titles, unique currency to buy stuff from unique battleground vendors, a little gold, and a soul gem. Random gives a little gold, soul gem, and the unique currency too, albeit less --- I feel that there should be different currencies between ranked and normal with different loot tables from the vendors.

Why do you think randomly made groups should receive fewer rewards?

texassob

Jaronking wrote: »

All I know is my Squad going rekt every group we face on Xbox isn't that right @Ron_Burgundy_79 and @texassob .

ALREADY!

MLCBS

Asardes wrote: »

Yep, right now PvP is a bit bland and very simplistic. It basically all boils down to:
- farming APs for end campaign rewards, which often boils down to ZvZ (zerg vs. zerg)
- controlling resources for enough time to earn the points towards campaign win
Most people just concentrate on the former; and the latter can be achieved with the coordination and intellectual level of a 7 year old.

Make it smarter, so more complex strategy matters.

I Totally Agree more Strategy Needed. To many Zergs.

Xsorus

Problem with separating the queues is you end up with groups not queuing and playing anymore.

I played rift with no pre made queues... Then they changed them and our 1 min queue time went to 1 hour queue time and we just decided not to play anymore.

That's generally the problem with battlegrounds

Cinbri

Xsorus wrote: »

Problem with separating the queues is you end up with groups not queuing and playing anymore.

This^^. Whom you gona fight as premade if there will be mostly pug queue at some particular time.

Paraflex

It just needs a ranking system. Which would include your standard first 5 games define the league you start in. Bronze/silver/gold/platinum league. This would balance it for everyone and you go up and down based on wins/loss it's that simple.

exeeter702

Swainburg wrote: »

Okay I'm sorry can someone PLEASE DEFINE PUG

The answers in this thread to your question are wholly or partially inaccurate.

Pug stands for pick up group, the term was given birth in mmos before group finder and queue ssystems existed. For example, if you were to pug a raid, that implied the raid group was formed by random players from the server instead of an organized formed group generally via guild. Naturally over time this led to it becoming more derogatory in that pugs generally have a lower success rate due to a lack of chemistry or experience that guild members usually share.

Example

"Damn john and jane are at work tonight, we will have to pug a tank and healer"

What the OP means by pug vs premed is essentially the same thing, but in a pvp environment. Random player's formed via the queue system can be viewed as a pug where as a premade generally has a major advantage due to being more organized.

Anyone using pug as a derogatory term to describe a bad player, doesn't know what they are talking about and is just making *** up.

Loves_guars

Xsorus wrote: »

Problem with separating the queues is you end up with groups not queuing and playing anymore.

I played rift with no pre made queues... Then they changed them and our 1 min queue time went to 1 hour queue time and we just decided not to play anymore.

That's generally the problem with battlegrounds

I understand and I know this is an issue in SWTOR. Don't know about Rift, but we have megaservers here, population shouldn't be such a problem I think.