Shuffle and Blur, 20% not equal

CapuchinSeven

I've not tested this properly so this is anecdotal, when I use or fight against Shuffle the dodge chance feels like every other hit is missing. Blur is not the same, when using and when I attack those with it running, Blur does seem to allow dodging of attacks but no where near the rate of Shuffle.

Has anyone else noticed this? Shuffle is almost ridiculous in its amount of dodges.

Skinzz

Nah its probaly because they are activating shuffle and also dodge rolling in the same time.

Sharee

Yeah it might be a perception issue, as those using blur are probably magicka-based, and as such not dodge rolling much.

Armitas

I see 6 dodges in a row quite often with shuffle and no rolling. I think people are procing the next I frame underneath current I frames.

Skinzz

Its weird but my shuffle rarely dodges anything for me lol. Just last night i fired 6 shots with my bow and all 6 shots got dodged by my target. Bs

mtwiggz

I've always felt the same way but have never actually tested it either. Shuffle is usually a better option due to the snare immunity either way, as 90% of all attacks in this game snare for whatever reason...

AfkNinja

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I've not tested this properly so this is anecdotal, when I use or fight against Shuffle the dodge chance feels like every other hit is missing. Blur is not the same, when using and when I attack those with it running, Blur does seem to allow dodging of attacks but no where near the rate of Shuffle.

Has anyone else noticed this? Shuffle is almost ridiculous in its amount of dodges.

Maybe you should test it?

Asgari

Testing RNG isnt something very easy to test. It would take an absurd amount of trials on both shuffle and blur. Even then people will argue that you are arguing about RNG and it wont get anywhere.

CapuchinSeven

AfkNinja wrote: »

Maybe you should test it?

See below

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Testing RNG isnt something very easy to test. It would take an absurd amount of trials on both shuffle and blur. Even then people will argue that you are arguing about RNG and it wont get anywhere.

This, I once did a RNG test in another MMO and after posting my results it pretty much turned into an argument (which I pretty much sat and watched) for no real reason other than one person just didn't like what he saw.

I considered how much I'd have screw about to really fairly test a random number and so I thought I'd ask how others feel about it first because if others don't see a problem I'd suck it up.

CapuchinSeven

xskinzcity wrote: »

Nah its probaly because they are activating shuffle and also dodge rolling in the same time.

Sharee wrote: »

Yeah it might be a perception issue, as those using blur are probably magicka-based, and as such not dodge rolling much.

We're talking about me using the skill though, not me trying to hit someone using the skill. I dodge a crazy amount, all the time stood on the spot with shuffle I can't say the same for blur.

It's a pain to test random numbers so I thought I'd ask here because to me it seemed pretty blatant before I bothered testing.

Waffennacht

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

Nah its probaly because they are activating shuffle and also dodge rolling in the same time.

Sharee wrote: »

Yeah it might be a perception issue, as those using blur are probably magicka-based, and as such not dodge rolling much.

We're talking about me using the skill though, not me trying to hit someone using the skill. I dodge a crazy amount, all the time stood on the spot with shuffle I can't say the same for blur.

It's a pain to test random numbers so I thought I'd ask here because to me it seemed pretty blatant before I bothered testing.

When I first heard of the "shuffle stack" I went out and found some mobs, at times it felt like everything was being dodged. So I promptly went into PvP and dodged practically nothing.

Im just curious, what's the up time of shuffle vs blur?

CapuchinSeven

Waffennacht wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

Nah its probaly because they are activating shuffle and also dodge rolling in the same time.

Sharee wrote: »

Yeah it might be a perception issue, as those using blur are probably magicka-based, and as such not dodge rolling much.

We're talking about me using the skill though, not me trying to hit someone using the skill. I dodge a crazy amount, all the time stood on the spot with shuffle I can't say the same for blur.

It's a pain to test random numbers so I thought I'd ask here because to me it seemed pretty blatant before I bothered testing.

When I first heard of the "shuffle stack" I went out and found some mobs, at times it felt like everything was being dodged. So I promptly went into PvP and dodged practically nothing.

Im just curious, what's the up time of shuffle vs blur?

Both 20s off the top of my head, think higher end Blur is around 26s.
I think it sounds like it's a case of seeing RNG in action really, which is what I wanted to find out before I started testing.

Seems like testing would be fairly pointless and it's mostly just in my imagination.

Edziu

I have some tested it with friend and this is what I have seen with it
with normal open fight chances for dodge are similar...but difference is in opening combat

1st attakcs, from stealth for example, its normal 20% chance to dodge 1st attack with having blur

now when you have shuffle I teste it and...1st attack is around 90% dodge, I have spammed light attacks, after it skills from stealth to frind with shuffle, and after many attacks I have finally hit him from hide as 1st attack opening combat, U have repeating it and it was always.

blur working as intended, always is 20% chance to dodge, always

but shuffle, before open combat, before 1st hit is has 90%+- to doge always when I doing heavy attakc with skill to skip animation, I always had missed heavy attak and the hited skill and poison enchant, it was always dodge my 1st hit from this small combo, I almost never hitted someone with shuffle with 1st attack, next 2nd, 3rd etc attacks was this 20% chance to miss him, but 1 attacks was 90%+ chance to miss

this is th eonly difference between shuffle and blur for me

Beepbeep

People dodging 3 to 6 ranged attacks in a row is basically the norm. Not sure why or how it happens, but it's a fact for me. So, I am now an RD spammer until it gets fixed. I don't want to do that, but I feel I have no other options.

Strider_Roshin

As someone that has tested both moves twice: they're equal.

Lava_Croft

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As someone that has tested both moves twice: they're equal.

As someone who has tested both moves more than I can recall: Blur is a joke compared to Shuffle.

Lord-Otto

Stupid RNG in combat just needs to go.
This includes Shuffle, Blur and Crystal Frags.
Give Shuffle and Blur a steady damage mitigation, maybe Minor Protection, and Crystal Frags a guaranteed proc after four casts, just like the Spectral Bow. Done.

CapuchinSeven

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Stupid RNG in combat just needs to go.
This includes Shuffle, Blur and Crystal Frags.
Give Shuffle and Blur a steady damage mitigation, maybe Minor Protection, and Crystal Frags a guaranteed proc after four casts, just like the Spectral Bow. Done.

Yeah I agree, the RNG will screw with your head.

Dudis

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Testing RNG isnt something very easy to test. It would take an absurd amount of trials on both shuffle and blur. Even then people will argue that you are arguing about RNG and it wont get anywhere.

You could just duel someone and do 100 light attacks against both buffs while counting the dodges for a decent average. Won't take more than ten minutes.

CapuchinSeven

Dudis wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Testing RNG isnt something very easy to test. It would take an absurd amount of trials on both shuffle and blur. Even then people will argue that you are arguing about RNG and it wont get anywhere.

You could just duel someone and do 100 light attacks against both buffs while counting the dodges for a decent average. Won't take more than ten minutes.

That wouldn't be enough, I could just simply "get lucky" with Shuffle and be "unlucky" with Blur. Which I've actually done.

sluice

The perception people have about shuffle dodge chances is affected by dodge rolling.
Seriously, when you notice that someone has dodged your attacks 5-6 times in a row. Save the clip and look at it.
You probably will notice 1 or 2 dodge roll in that time frame. Remember that when one dodge roll, they still dodge incoming attack for a fraction of a second after the dodge roll.

Sandman929

sluice wrote: »

The perception people have about shuffle dodge chances is affected by dodge rolling.
Seriously, when you notice that someone has dodged your attacks 5-6 times in a row. Save the clip and look at it.
You probably will notice 1 or 2 dodge roll in that time frame. Remember that when one dodge roll, they still dodge incoming attack for a fraction of a second after the dodge roll.

I've seen people dodge roll, and I've seen people dodge 3-4 in a row while in their menu.

Minno

Dudis wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Testing RNG isnt something very easy to test. It would take an absurd amount of trials on both shuffle and blur. Even then people will argue that you are arguing about RNG and it wont get anywhere.

You could just duel someone and do 100 light attacks against both buffs while counting the dodges for a decent average. Won't take more than ten minutes.

Yea, you'd have to test each attack, record the time and if it hit or not. Mostly naked.

If anyone wants to try it, I'll volunteer on pc.

llllADBllll

Isn't shuffle buffed per piece of medium armour though so in fact is more than 20%?

Sandman929

CraftMaster wrote: »

Isn't shuffle buffed per piece of medium armour though so in fact is more than 20%?

The snare immunity is buffed, but not the dodge chance.

Minno

Sandman929 wrote: »

CraftMaster wrote: »

Isn't shuffle buffed per piece of medium armour though so in fact is more than 20%?

The snare immunity is buffed, but not the dodge chance.

Would be funny if it was bugged and actually buffed the dodge chance lol.

Sandman929

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

CraftMaster wrote: »

Isn't shuffle buffed per piece of medium armour though so in fact is more than 20%?

The snare immunity is buffed, but not the dodge chance.

Would be funny if it was bugged and actually buffed the dodge chance lol.

But not surprising I guess. I can't claim to know what's going on with Shuffle, but if other means of getting Major Evasion are giving a true 20% dodge chance, than Shuffle seems like it's closer to 40%.
This is definitely just observation, and no, it's not because these highly skilled stam builds are dodge rolling too. They could stand perfectly still or running away (not dodge rolling) and still dodge 3-4 attacks in a row.

Minno

Sandman929 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

CraftMaster wrote: »

Isn't shuffle buffed per piece of medium armour though so in fact is more than 20%?

The snare immunity is buffed, but not the dodge chance.

Would be funny if it was bugged and actually buffed the dodge chance lol.

But not surprising I guess. I can't claim to know what's going on with Shuffle, but if other means of getting Major Evasion are giving a true 20% dodge chance, than Shuffle seems like it's closer to 40%.
This is definitely just observation, and no, it's not because these highly skilled stam builds are dodge rolling too. They could stand perfectly still or running away (not dodge rolling) and still dodge 3-4 attacks in a row.

Spectre eyes set should be working closer to shuffle. I'm using it now on my Templar and enjoying receiving dodge chance at a Magicka cost.

hrothbern

Dudis wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Testing RNG isnt something very easy to test. It would take an absurd amount of trials on both shuffle and blur. Even then people will argue that you are arguing about RNG and it wont get anywhere.

You could just duel someone and do 100 light attacks against both buffs while counting the dodges for a decent average. Won't take more than ten minutes.

That it takes only 10 minutes is exactly what troubles me !

How likely is it that people have already done that and found out what triggered the additional dodge chance...

Would they report that back on this forum ?

Or would they keep that little secret for their own benefit !

Minno

hrothbern wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Testing RNG isnt something very easy to test. It would take an absurd amount of trials on both shuffle and blur. Even then people will argue that you are arguing about RNG and it wont get anywhere.

You could just duel someone and do 100 light attacks against both buffs while counting the dodges for a decent average. Won't take more than ten minutes.

That it takes only 10 minutes is exactly what troubles me !

How likely is it that people have already done that and found out what triggered the additional dodge chance...

Would they report that back on this forum ?

Or would they keep that little secret for their own benefit !

Mostly keep it.

PoseidonEvil

Shuffle definitely dodges more than blur lol