So I turned my nightblade into a ganker...

Stoopid_Nwah

@ScruffyWhiskers With tri-stat food, major sorcery, major prophecy, and continuous attack I am at 4300 spell damage, 46% crit, 1164 magicka regen, and 40k magicka. I can push the stats higher if I finish levelling undaunted and golding out gear. I could also become a vamp for regen and the sneak speed but that skin is just so nasty haha.

@Bdawwg yes it does!

Master_Kas

Nice clips!

Question 1: Ever tried: heavy attack -> swallow soul -> impale If needed?

Swallow soul should hit harder than your lotusfan, is cheaper + ranged. And impale is cheaper and does more damage at execute % than concealed and it has a 15 meter range.

Using this should prob make it easier to get away incase it fails or if there is to many enemies around.

Very sweet vid nontheless.

Question 2: are you a dunmer?

Stoopid_Nwah

@Master_Kas Hey thanks for the great suggestions!
I definitely get what you're saying, and it's great because I could stay a good distance away...but for some reason I like closing in on the enemy haha. That also gives me the option to be in range for my ulti if needed.

I would like to keep lotus on my bar for the snare in case I need to get away, to use it to bounce between enemies to help with escape if in a zerg, and because it just feels faster overall (could just be me imagining things haha). Concealed I like for the speed and stun, so with those I never had room to slot impale unfortunately...

What do you think about swapping out soul harvest for tether (for the 8% magicka), my siphoning skill for impale to give heavy attack -> lotus or concealed depending on where I am -> impale?

And yes I am a dunmer!

slaterd

So I assembled the gear for this build on my magblade. It has been the most fun I have had in a good while. It gives back the burst we are missing without proxy debt. I still need a lot of practice but fun for sure. Thanks you for posting this thread. I was ready to shelve my magblade in pvp

QuebraRegra

Ankael07 wrote: »

#bringbacksoftcaps

EXACTLY! All the CP cap raise is just making things worse... as predicted.

Balance be damned.

Stoopid_Nwah

@slaterd That is fantastic to hear! Glad I was able to save your magblade !

@QuebraRegra @Ankael07 I have to agree with the both of you, but now there seems to be no turning back with the CP system. Azura's (non CP campaign) on Xbox is desolate so if you actually want to pvp you have to pick a CP campaign. And with all of these maxed out CP characters running around, it seems everyone has massive burst, massive heals, and sustain all in one. The go-to seems to be stack damage/max stats as high as you can and only run with the bare minimum regen that you can function with.

QuebraRegra

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@slaterd That is fantastic to hear! Glad I was able to save your magblade !

@QuebraRegra @Ankael07 I have to agree with the both of you, but now there seems to be no turning back with the CP system. Azura's (non CP campaign) on Xbox is desolate so if you actually want to pvp you have to pick a CP campaign. And with all of these maxed out CP characters running around, it seems everyone has massive burst, massive heals, and sustain all in one. The go-to seems to be stack damage/max stats as high as you can and only run with the bare minimum regen that you can function with.

So then, it looks like I was wrong, and that NO CP campaigns are not in fact predominately popular as I had predicted..

So the meta continues, I blame the community, worsened by ZOS inability to ever conceive of balance.

Crypticarsenal

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@slaterd That is fantastic to hear! Glad I was able to save your magblade !

@QuebraRegra @Ankael07 I have to agree with the both of you, but now there seems to be no turning back with the CP system. Azura's (non CP campaign) on Xbox is desolate so if you actually want to pvp you have to pick a CP campaign. And with all of these maxed out CP characters running around, it seems everyone has massive burst, massive heals, and sustain all in one. The go-to seems to be stack damage/max stats as high as you can and only run with the bare minimum regen that you can function with.

So then, it looks like I was wrong, and that NO CP campaigns are not in fact predominately popular as I had predicted..

So the meta continues, I blame the community, worsened by ZOS inability to ever conceive of balance.

BWB is always active.... I play on Azura on Xbox and for the most part its overrun with one faction... and the only reason I think its that way is because its a 30 day campaign. If ZOS would change that to a 7 day campaign you would probably have more there. No one wants to go to a campaign where one faction is 30k points ahead with so much time left.

Stoopid_Nwah

QuebraRegra wrote: »

So then, it looks like I was wrong, and that NO CP campaigns are not in fact predominately popular as I had predicted..

So the meta continues, I blame the community, worsened by ZOS inability to ever conceive of balance.

I played there a bit and got emp, but right before I started pushing it changed to no cp. Guilds flooded out, and it was a pain to get anyone to come in there to help push. And as soon as the campaign ended I left. Now it just seems to be a rotating buff server. Most players admit they don't want to fight without their cp.

I think they should just revert it back to how it was before to give players who like the 30 day campaigns somewhere to go aside from scourge. Turn one of the other seven days into a non-cp campaign; those are rarely past two bars anyway.

dsalter

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@ScruffyWhiskers With tri-stat food, major sorcery, major prophecy, and continuous attack I am at 4300 spell damage, 46% crit, 1164 magicka regen, and 40k magicka. I can push the stats higher if I finish levelling undaunted and golding out gear. I could also become a vamp for regen and the sneak speed but that skin is just so nasty haha.

@Bdawwg yes it does!

these kind of overkill stats is why we need softcaps back

Stoopid_Nwah

dsalter wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@ScruffyWhiskers With tri-stat food, major sorcery, major prophecy, and continuous attack I am at 4300 spell damage, 46% crit, 1164 magicka regen, and 40k magicka. I can push the stats higher if I finish levelling undaunted and golding out gear. I could also become a vamp for regen and the sneak speed but that skin is just so nasty haha.

@Bdawwg yes it does!

these kind of overkill stats is why we need softcaps back

The sad thing is that these can go a decent amount higher.

NoFlash

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

A few days ago I was reading a thread about ganking requiring skill; I wanted to see for myself, so I changed up my magblade that I have been using for Maelstrom. I have to admit I am surprised with how it performs and how much fun it can be to jump into groups to see if I can get a kill and escape. I am also surprised by how many people fall for the whole "chase me" routine.

That being said, I am new to this and was hoping to get some feedback on my gameplay. Any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated !

https://youtu.be/NY0wckExj30

Does this work still as of today? I've only seen stam gankers.

AzuraKin

Surgee wrote: »

ZOS should so something about that crazy high crit chance. I haven't seen a single dps build that doesn't rely on crits. It wouldn't be a problem if it wouldn't be so easy to reach 80% crit chance. That's just insane. Only in ESO.

lol you do realize there are trade offs for pushing crit right? and crit based builds are not high burst builds, they are RMS builds.

Stoopid_Nwah

AzuraKin wrote: »

Surgee wrote: »

ZOS should so something about that crazy high crit chance. I haven't seen a single dps build that doesn't rely on crits. It wouldn't be a problem if it wouldn't be so easy to reach 80% crit chance. That's just insane. Only in ESO.

lol you do realize there are trade offs for pushing crit right? and crit based builds are not high burst builds, they are RMS builds.

My build isn't even high crit lol it's <50%. But for my build yeah you're right there are some major tradeoffs...the problem is stam builds can get pretty great burst with just a light attack due to proc sets .

And @EvoAZN yes I'm still running a variant of the build (I have more max magicka, added cp, etc...) and have been messing around with different gear setups. The original in the video still works though I can't stand stam ganking; I've tried it and it just isn't for me.

Gothren

tbh this playstyle looks boring af. I can't see anyone playing this way for a long time without boredom setting in.

Kutsuu

I love it how people were raging at me in the other thread when I said magblades can gank, but here's more proof that they can. Ganking is more of a strategy game in a lot of cases - You min/max your gear/stats/skills properly, pick the right targets at the right time, and have your escape planned ahead of time. You'll notice the unskilled gankers just getting a kill and dying every time, while the skilled ones often get away. The point I'm making is that skill isn't always in twitch reaction speed or ability to spam dodge rolls at the right times like the traditional sense of "skill" I see mentioned on these forums.

The only feedback I have for this video is that you are buffing WAY too close to people. Anyone with volume turned up and paying attention will hear that magelight and go on the defensive immediately. I try to buff just out of earshot, but it's tough with how far away you can hear people buffing in stealth now.

Bakven wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@Bakven Your video definitely shows the importance of picking the right target. I avoid or wait to attack anyone with a shield up, and I never use mark because it's like you're begging the target to block, dodge and buff up haha.

I think ganking is for the patient person who doesn't just "see red" and lose all sense of logic (those that keep trying to gank and get revenge on the person who has killed them over and over again).

Anyway, nice kill !

Exactly, usually gankers aren't that great at duels, but that's not what their build is made for. Gankers hold all the advantages right up until their first move, so it's really their fight to lose.

and thanks

At least in the case of a well setup Clever Alchemist gank build, it's very strong in duels for a ~15 second period because the DPS pressure can be so overwhelming and immediately puts people on the defensive. My light>surprise>bash cancels often hit for 10-12k combined damage while I'm fully buffed and in my element, and that pales compared to a well timed heavy > incap.

Stoopid_Nwah

Gothren wrote: »

tbh this playstyle looks boring af. I can't see anyone playing this way for a long time without boredom setting in.

It's not for everyone. For me, ganking has been the most fun I've had in pvp since getting emp back in the day. It's an adrenaline rush picking someone in the middle of a group, killing them, and getting out without anyone even realizing what happened. I also love nothing more than when some tool kills a newbie and tbags away only for me to come and one-shot him .

And let's be honest, pvp is kind of a mess right now, so ganking gave me something new and fun to try out; it just so happened I ended up loving it more than I thought I would. I'm sure other gankers feel similar @GreenSoup2HoT @Xinthisis @SRIBES

But, with infernal guardian being broken, I have parked my nb in vma and have been working on my mdk some more. #fixcloak

Kutsuu

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

tbh this playstyle looks boring af. I can't see anyone playing this way for a long time without boredom setting in.

It's not for everyone. For me, ganking has been the most fun I've had in pvp since getting emp back in the day. It's an adrenaline rush picking someone in the middle of a group, killing them, and getting out without anyone even realizing what happened. I also love nothing more than when some tool kills a newbie and tbags away only for me to come and one-shot him .

And let's be honest, pvp is kind of a mess right now, so ganking gave me something new and fun to try out; it just so happened I ended up loving it more than I thought I would. I'm sure other gankers feel similar @GreenSoup2HoT @Xinthisis @SRIBES

But, with infernal guardian being broken, I have parked my nb in vma and have been working on my mdk some more. #fixcloak

Oh goodness don't get these guys started on how "bad" mDKs are. lol

Stoopid_Nwah

@Kutsuu so far I must have been lucky with buffing up and no one hearing, but I can guess the reasoning I end up close in some clips was because I was having issues that day with my heavy attacks missing (the kind where it literally goes off into the distance like wtf lol). When that happens I tend to get really irritable and say screw it and end up almost on top of them. I also tend to stay close because the fireball I noticed can definitely be heard by trained pvpers. But what about magelight is it that others can hear? I always assumed that would be inaudible to them.

Also I appreciate you standing up for magblade ganking. I've had those comments as well, and it's like dude...did you not see the 25k heavy crit? Definitely doable.

Mdk isn't that bad lol. Plus with incoming buffs I figure may as well get a step ahead of the game. If it's anything like what happened to stam sorcs then look out, mdk demigods of fire incoming.

Kutsuu

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@Kutsuu so far I must have been lucky with buffing up and no one hearing, but I can guess the reasoning I end up close in some clips was because I was having issues that day with my heavy attacks missing (the kind where it literally goes off into the distance like wtf lol). When that happens I tend to get really irritable and say screw it and end up almost on top of them. I also tend to stay close because the fireball I noticed can definitely be heard by trained pvpers. But what about magelight is it that others can hear? I always assumed that would be inaudible to them.

Also I appreciate you standing up for magblade ganking. I've had those comments as well, and it's like dude...did you not see the 25k heavy crit? Definitely doable.

Mdk isn't that bad lol. Plus with incoming buffs I figure may as well get a step ahead of the game. If it's anything like what happened to stam sorcs then look out, mdk demigods of fire incoming.

There was a time in early patches of the game that you could not hear activities by someone in stealth *at all*. I don't know exactly when the changes were made, but you can now hear people buffing in stealth from the same range you could hear them out of stealth. Magelight has a very loud and unique sound effect, and is a direct precursor to getting hit with a big heavy attack. I suppose it's possible that whatever patch made this change isn't in effect on console.

thankyourat

Kutsuu wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@Kutsuu so far I must have been lucky with buffing up and no one hearing, but I can guess the reasoning I end up close in some clips was because I was having issues that day with my heavy attacks missing (the kind where it literally goes off into the distance like wtf lol). When that happens I tend to get really irritable and say screw it and end up almost on top of them. I also tend to stay close because the fireball I noticed can definitely be heard by trained pvpers. But what about magelight is it that others can hear? I always assumed that would be inaudible to them.

Also I appreciate you standing up for magblade ganking. I've had those comments as well, and it's like dude...did you not see the 25k heavy crit? Definitely doable.

Mdk isn't that bad lol. Plus with incoming buffs I figure may as well get a step ahead of the game. If it's anything like what happened to stam sorcs then look out, mdk demigods of fire incoming.

There was a time in early patches of the game that you could not hear activities by someone in stealth *at all*. I don't know exactly when the changes were made, but you can now hear people buffing in stealth from the same range you could hear them out of stealth. Magelight has a very loud and unique sound effect, and is a direct precursor to getting hit with a big heavy attack. I suppose it's possible that whatever patch made this change isn't in effect on console.

Not only that. heavy attacks from bow and staves also have an audio que its just enough to always get your shield up before the heavy attack lands. If you are around a keep your faction owns you usually aren't listening for things like that though lol

Stoopid_Nwah

thankyourat wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@Kutsuu so far I must have been lucky with buffing up and no one hearing, but I can guess the reasoning I end up close in some clips was because I was having issues that day with my heavy attacks missing (the kind where it literally goes off into the distance like wtf lol). When that happens I tend to get really irritable and say screw it and end up almost on top of them. I also tend to stay close because the fireball I noticed can definitely be heard by trained pvpers. But what about magelight is it that others can hear? I always assumed that would be inaudible to them.

Also I appreciate you standing up for magblade ganking. I've had those comments as well, and it's like dude...did you not see the 25k heavy crit? Definitely doable.

Mdk isn't that bad lol. Plus with incoming buffs I figure may as well get a step ahead of the game. If it's anything like what happened to stam sorcs then look out, mdk demigods of fire incoming.

There was a time in early patches of the game that you could not hear activities by someone in stealth *at all*. I don't know exactly when the changes were made, but you can now hear people buffing in stealth from the same range you could hear them out of stealth. Magelight has a very loud and unique sound effect, and is a direct precursor to getting hit with a big heavy attack. I suppose it's possible that whatever patch made this change isn't in effect on console.

Not only that. heavy attacks from bow and staves also have an audio que its just enough to always get your shield up before the heavy attack lands. If you are around a keep your faction owns you usually aren't listening for things like that though lol

This is definitely true. It seems to be a lot like how easy it is to hear dark flare. Have you been able hear mage light though on console? I'll have to find someone to test this with using different ranges. I've never noticed but it's good info to know and the first I've heard about it.

Thanks again @Kutsuu .

thankyourat

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

@Kutsuu so far I must have been lucky with buffing up and no one hearing, but I can guess the reasoning I end up close in some clips was because I was having issues that day with my heavy attacks missing (the kind where it literally goes off into the distance like wtf lol). When that happens I tend to get really irritable and say screw it and end up almost on top of them. I also tend to stay close because the fireball I noticed can definitely be heard by trained pvpers. But what about magelight is it that others can hear? I always assumed that would be inaudible to them.

Also I appreciate you standing up for magblade ganking. I've had those comments as well, and it's like dude...did you not see the 25k heavy crit? Definitely doable.

Mdk isn't that bad lol. Plus with incoming buffs I figure may as well get a step ahead of the game. If it's anything like what happened to stam sorcs then look out, mdk demigods of fire incoming.

There was a time in early patches of the game that you could not hear activities by someone in stealth *at all*. I don't know exactly when the changes were made, but you can now hear people buffing in stealth from the same range you could hear them out of stealth. Magelight has a very loud and unique sound effect, and is a direct precursor to getting hit with a big heavy attack. I suppose it's possible that whatever patch made this change isn't in effect on console.

Not only that. heavy attacks from bow and staves also have an audio que its just enough to always get your shield up before the heavy attack lands. If you are around a keep your faction owns you usually aren't listening for things like that though lol

This is definitely true. It seems to be a lot like how easy it is to hear dark flare. Have you been able hear mage light though on console? I'll have to find someone to test this with using different ranges. I've never noticed but it's good info to know and the first I've heard about it.

Thanks again @Kutsuu .

I haven't been able to hear mage light, but honestly I haven't really been paying attention lol

PrinceRyzen

On the topic of magblade ganking, is clever alchemist a requirement for the heavy attack build?

It's appealing because it allows me to use destro + 2X 5 piece sets and monster set. I'm just wondering if there's a comparable set that doesn't require consumables.

I'm not sure if there's anything else with the back bar benefit for ganking.

Stoopid_Nwah

PrinceRyzen wrote: »

On the topic of magblade ganking, is clever alchemist a requirement for the heavy attack build?

It's appealing because it allows me to use destro + 2X 5 piece sets and monster set. I'm just wondering if there's a comparable set that doesn't require consumables.

I'm not sure if there's anything else with the back bar benefit for ganking.

I personally think it's BiS and irreplaceable for magicka nb ganking as it's really the only set you can back bar to proc. I don't use the exact build in that video anymore, but what I'm currently testing is two clever alchemist swords, 3 body pieces, 1 ilambris, 1 kena, 2 torugs, 3 willpower.

Obviously the torugs and willpower can be replaced with elegance or another five piece.

And in case anyone wanted to know-ice ganking was a bust lol. I tried using heavy frost attack from a sharpened maelstrom ice staff into the ice clench to try to proc winterborn. I was hopeful the damage shield from the frost attack would proc infernal guardian as well so I could be like the stam gankers using proc sets but on the magicka side lol. Needless to say guardian doesn't proc off of the frost bonus shield and winterborn is pretty unreliable. So in my head (when everything procced) it looked like heavy attack+meteors+frozen from clench+winterborn+soul harvest and in practice it looked more like no AP .

brandonv516

Good damage fellow ganker. I run elegance and stygian on my nightblade at the moment, shadow mundus. Works very nice.

I actually wish stygian had the old 5 piece bonus to it though (+ crit damage). Stygian (pre 1 Tamriel) + Elegance, Khajiit passive, and shadow mundus would be really overpowered with a cloaked heavy attack.

Synozeer

brandonv516 wrote: »

Good damage fellow ganker. I run elegance and stygian on my nightblade at the moment, shadow mundus. Works very nice.

I actually wish stygian had the old 5 piece bonus to it though (+ crit damage). Stygian (pre 1 Tamriel) + Elegance, Khajiit passive, and shadow mundus would be really overpowered with a cloaked heavy attack.

Does Stygian work with staff heavy attack? Staff heavy attack takes you out of stealth and there is a delay before it hits.

Stoopid_Nwah

Synozeer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Good damage fellow ganker. I run elegance and stygian on my nightblade at the moment, shadow mundus. Works very nice.

I actually wish stygian had the old 5 piece bonus to it though (+ crit damage). Stygian (pre 1 Tamriel) + Elegance, Khajiit passive, and shadow mundus would be really overpowered with a cloaked heavy attack.

Does Stygian work with staff heavy attack? Staff heavy attack takes you out of stealth and there is a delay before it hits.

You would have to be far enough away, shoot the heavy attack and quickly cloak before it lands in order for this to work (at least I believe this is how it would work, hard to tell on console). But that's why I don't run stygian. Plus it's kinda buggy with cloak.

@brandonv516 hey thanks! Are you finding the khajiits bonus is easy to apply with staff attacks pulling you out of stealth? I compared dunmer to khajiit and found that I went from like 20k heavy attacks to 16k (after the magicka loss and fire damage bonus loss) but perhaps I was just missing something.

PrinceRyzen

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

PrinceRyzen wrote: »

On the topic of magblade ganking, is clever alchemist a requirement for the heavy attack build?

It's appealing because it allows me to use destro + 2X 5 piece sets and monster set. I'm just wondering if there's a comparable set that doesn't require consumables.

I'm not sure if there's anything else with the back bar benefit for ganking.

I personally think it's BiS and irreplaceable for magicka nb ganking as it's really the only set you can back bar to proc. I don't use the exact build in that video anymore, but what I'm currently testing is two clever alchemist swords, 3 body pieces, 1 ilambris, 1 kena, 2 torugs, 3 willpower.

Obviously the torugs and willpower can be replaced with elegance or another five piece.

And in case anyone wanted to know-ice ganking was a bust lol. I tried using heavy frost attack from a sharpened maelstrom ice staff into the ice clench to try to proc winterborn. I was hopeful the damage shield from the frost attack would proc infernal guardian as well so I could be like the stam gankers using proc sets but on the magicka side lol. Needless to say guardian doesn't proc off of the frost bonus shield and winterborn is pretty unreliable. So in my head (when everything procced) it looked like heavy attack+meteors+frozen from clench+winterborn+soul harvest and in practice it looked more like no AP .

Yep. Kinda what I figured. Just hoped there was a chance at variety there. I guess now it comes down to what I'll use with it.

Any idea how clever + necropotence would perform vs elegant or willpower?


Lastly, I'm purely destro, as I really don't like dw for magic. Are you melee ganking?

brandonv516

Synozeer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Good damage fellow ganker. I run elegance and stygian on my nightblade at the moment, shadow mundus. Works very nice.

I actually wish stygian had the old 5 piece bonus to it though (+ crit damage). Stygian (pre 1 Tamriel) + Elegance, Khajiit passive, and shadow mundus would be really overpowered with a cloaked heavy attack.

Does Stygian work with staff heavy attack? Staff heavy attack takes you out of stealth and there is a delay before it hits.

Heavy attack, animation cancel cloak right before it hits and it applies the guaranteed crit and bonus SD with the heavy attack.