A few Mag sorc PVP questions

Bromburak

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

That's actually a must for Sorcs vs. decent players anyway, because you cannot stay on support bar to spam shields and heals forever just to deal with incoming pressure. You need to gain control over the fight by a massive offensive play style while you keep your shields up the same time. Most "normal" Sorcs stay on support/buff bar forever and thats their core mistake in PvP because they are being pushed into a defensive role by almost doing no damage and they don't even notice.

The reason is that they still think shields are powerful enough ...
This makes Sorcs look like pretty bad and helpless , they are stuck under pressure else they wouldn't need to spam shields.

Araviel2

Bromburak wrote: »

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

That's actually a must for Sorcs vs. decent players anyway, because you cannot stay on support bar to spam shields and heals forever just to deal with incoming pressure. You need to gain control over the fight by a massive offensive play style while you keep your shields up the same time. Most "normal" Sorcs stay on support/buff bar forever and thats their core mistake in PvP because they are being pushed into a defensive role by almost doing no damage and they don't even notice.

The reason is that they still think shields are powerful enough ...
This makes Sorcs look like pretty bad and helpless , they are stuck under pressure else they wouldn't need to spam shields.

yea, i don't know if its a must, i know good sorc's who don't. but i am very strong advocate for it.
and i guess the good ones who manages to pull it off are much better at bar swapping than me.

I play on a crappy stock keyboard which i think is rather slow, maybe if i had a good mechanical keyboard i would reconsider.
i do however got a decent gaming mouse that is faster, although whit a limited number of buttons and i prefer keeping my main attack skills/shields and roll dodge on those instead. and keeping shields on both bars makes bar swapping whit my crappy stock keyboard less of a pita.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Thanks for all the answers guys, some good info here.

maboleth

^^ Yeah, thanks a lot everyone!

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

Yes that my view too. I also put 21% into bastion as I thought 4% is not much and if rather put it info hardy or Ele defender.

Best update I'm looking at getting that amberplasm set but I also heard recovery has been nerfed a little bit.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Not on atm so cannot see CP but it's split well.
Blue - 100 Ele expert, some into Crit dmg, a few into thaum,
Red - 21% bastion, some in hardy and Ele defender, some into crit resist.
Green- Split mostly between reduced cost and regen. Have some into break free.
This is just a rough estimate.

Why points into trauma ? I can't see any dots in your builds, besides maybe boundless storm. But that's trash anyway.

Take those points and put them all into spell erosion in this heavy armor meta.
And Bastion should be maxed. Once your health gets hit, you are most likely a 1 shot anyway. Light armor is suicide nowadays but sadly needed if you want to make magicka somewhat viable.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Yes well I'm not new to the sorc but I've not played it in many months. I always had hardened ward but I thought id try empowered ward, I noticed it's significantly weaker.

Normal move setup although it changes sometimes;
Destro - Frags, curse, ward, endless fury, force pulse (interrupt morph) ultimate is normally ice comet.

Resto - flex spot - mines (usually these)/boundless, streak, healing ward, light armour shield, power surge. Ultimate is Bats atm. Although I do switch around ultimates and sometimes use atro, overload and dawn breaker.

Consider using overload on one bar. So you can use your long lasting abilities on it. Like surge, boundless storm and maybe mines if you want and then you even have space for 2 other things.

This way you could move endless fury to your 2nd bar. Well actually, I would just remove mages fury entirely, it's a very bad ability. However, you can then use magelight on your first bar for more magicka and especially spell crit.
When you keep on using the engine guardian to get reliable stamina resotration, you could also consider putting shuffle on your overload bar.

Yea I love this ability. Apparently they've changed it so it's as fast as lightning and almost never misses. They released a thread about it recently. Also mine gives over 4k magicka and costs under 2k, I find it very useful.

Minalan

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

Araviel2

Minalan wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

really? if thats true i guess i could go even lower on bastion.
whit this new info and if my math is correct then CP points distribution would be 59/59/59 into bastion/elemental/hardy if we wish to make our shields as strong as possible

kadar

Minalan wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

I thought shields didn't have any mitigation values? In other words, they take full tool tip damage, right?

Araviel2

The_Outsider wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

I thought shields didn't have any mitigation values? In other words, they take full tool tip damage, right?

yea i was under this impression too, but if Minalan says elemental and hardy affects it im not so sure anymore. he seems to know his sorcery.

can anyone else confirm?

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Araviel2 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

I thought shields didn't have any mitigation values? In other words, they take full tool tip damage, right?

yea i was under this impression too, but if Minalan says elemental and hardy affects it im not so sure anymore. he seems to know his sorcery.

can anyone else confirm?

I've also heard this hence why I run points into Ele and hardy.

Minalan

Araviel2 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

I thought shields didn't have any mitigation values? In other words, they take full tool tip damage, right?

yea i was under this impression too, but if Minalan says elemental and hardy affects it im not so sure anymore. he seems to know his sorcery.

can anyone else confirm?

Here's the thread when I asked, take it for what it is:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259082/do-the-hardy-and-elemental-defender-cp-abilities-apply-to-shields/p1

PS: always glad to help you guys, even though 2/3rds of you will be gunning for me, and nothing pisses me off more than meeting my own build in the field XD

Izaki

Okay first thing you need to know is that any random staff blows the Maelstrom Staff out of the water if you're not using Wall Of Elements which you obviously aren't because its PvP. So keep those weapons you have now.

Second thing is that there's no point in running 3 shields. Choose 1 (Hardened Ward) and then the resto staff. No point in running shields that don't overlap for more than 6 seconds. Use Boundless Storm for armor and mobility instead of Dampen Magic. Why Hardened and not Empowered? 10 second duration is useless in outnumbered situations, and the stronger ward buys you more time to counter-attack. Use shields reactively. If you're taking damage, pop a shield. Don't spam your shield before entering a fight its useless, it only last 6 seconds remember?

Third thing as far as traits go, run 5 Impen and 2 Well-Fitted. I've always been using Impen in PvP, even before the modifications to shields (note that I don't say nerf, I don't consider it a nerf) and Well-Fitted for those occasional Dodge rolls. For Undaunted I suggest running 6 light 1 heavy, that way you have very decent sustain and very decent stat pools. Apparently sustain is even tougher this patch, so 6 light 1 heavy just seems to be the perfect set-up.

Now for the gear set-ups apparently regen formula has been changed. So I would suggest running cost reduction over recovery. So Seducer is probably still the number 1 set. Restored to its former glory as some would say. Amberplasm looks pretty nice too, but it needs testing. Kags is also fairly good. Engine Guardian is a must if you plan on 1vXing.

Run Inner Light on your front bar and enpower that C-Frag. Run Power Surge on back bar, its better, more simple and works in stealth.
Use Overload! I know many people who hate it, but its very effective and it does really hit like a truck. The whole point behind Overload is not spamming it, but using it like you would use an Ice Comet or a Dawnbreaker. If you spam Overload, everyone will dodge it and you'll end up getting yourself killed. Overload the opponent only when he's stunned or in the process of breaking free (Streak, Frags, interrupts from Crushing Shock). Its a difficult thing to get right, far from being easy mode as everyone claims.
Run Shooting Star on your back bar. If you see enemies grouped up, cast it in the middle while Streaking through them, to stun them. Why Shooting Star over Ice Comet? That ulti return for each target hit enables you to use a few Overloads for cleaning up the mess.
Run Streak on the front bar. Use it offensively. You are a Sorc, AKA the most mobile class in the game (be it magicka or stamina), use that to your advantage, but be careful not to Streak more than 3 times in a row. Also animation cancel Streak so that you don't get that stupid root after casting it. My personal most effective combo is: Curse > Streak > Frag > *Overload Bar* > Endless Fury > 2 Overload attacks. Always works and kills even the most annoying Templars. Someone Crit Rushes to your face? Curse them, Streak through them, EXPOSE THEM! Someone perma-dodging? Curse them, Streak through them, EXPOSE THEM!
Don't use Daedric Minefield. Its s*** believe me, its very niche and only an idiot will walk into more than 1 mine at a time. There are idiots out in Cyro, but not to that point. If you want an immobilise either use the other morph of Mines (Daedric Tomb) or Restraining Prison. Both function much better than mines. Why? Mine + Atro camping is a meta I never took part in. To me if you stay immobile in one spot as a Sorc, you die. Mobility is your strength, use it!

These are my tips for playing magicka Sorc in PvP. I can give my skills, my stats and my gear, just ask for it. @Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Xeven

Minalan wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

Shhhhhhhhhhh. Let the potatos potate.

RebornV3x

1) 5-1-1 is better for PVP because of undaunted passives (I normally go max stats over max regen food)
2) Hardened ward is better, Healing Ward is great don't really use the light armor skill but I have it morphed to Harness Magicka.
3) currently running 5x Julianos, 2x kena and 3x willpower probably not the best set up for PVP but without it your spell damage is weak.
4 I would do at least 1 kena maybe I do 2 kena

juhasman

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Okay first thing you need to know is that any random staff blows the Maelstrom Staff out of the water if you're not using Wall Of Elements which you obviously aren't because its PvP. So keep those weapons you have now.

Disagree. 189 spell dmg for 1 piece is a good option. I know some can say crafted enchant gives 348 but enchant last 5 sec and have 10 sec cooldown and can be used only on fight. Also You can put poison into maelstorm and still have 189 spell dmg because this stat is not suspended by poison and any other crafted enchantments.

Minalan

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Okay first thing you need to know is that any random staff blows the Maelstrom Staff out of the water if you're not using Wall Of Elements which you obviously aren't because its PvP. So keep those weapons you have now.

Second thing is that there's no point in running 3 shields. Choose 1 (Hardened Ward) and then the resto staff. No point in running shields that don't overlap for more than 6 seconds. Use Boundless Storm for armor and mobility instead of Dampen Magic. Why Hardened and not Empowered? 10 second duration is useless in outnumbered situations, and the stronger ward buys you more time to counter-attack. Use shields reactively. If you're taking damage, pop a shield. Don't spam your shield before entering a fight its useless, it only last 6 seconds remember?

Third thing as far as traits go, run 5 Impen and 2 Well-Fitted. I've always been using Impen in PvP, even before the modifications to shields (note that I don't say nerf, I don't consider it a nerf) and Well-Fitted for those occasional Dodge rolls. For Undaunted I suggest running 6 light 1 heavy, that way you have very decent sustain and very decent stat pools. Apparently sustain is even tougher this patch, so 6 light 1 heavy just seems to be the perfect set-up.

Now for the gear set-ups apparently regen formula has been changed. So I would suggest running cost reduction over recovery. So Seducer is probably still the number 1 set. Restored to its former glory as some would say. Amberplasm looks pretty nice too, but it needs testing. Kags is also fairly good. Engine Guardian is a must if you plan on 1vXing.

Run Inner Light on your front bar and enpower that C-Frag. Run Power Surge on back bar, its better, more simple and works in stealth.
Use Overload! I know many people who hate it, but its very effective and it does really hit like a truck. The whole point behind Overload is not spamming it, but using it like you would use an Ice Comet or a Dawnbreaker. If you spam Overload, everyone will dodge it and you'll end up getting yourself killed. Overload the opponent only when he's stunned or in the process of breaking free (Streak, Frags, interrupts from Crushing Shock). Its a difficult thing to get right, far from being easy mode as everyone claims.
Run Shooting Star on your back bar. If you see enemies grouped up, cast it in the middle while Streaking through them, to stun them. Why Shooting Star over Ice Comet? That ulti return for each target hit enables you to use a few Overloads for cleaning up the mess.
Run Streak on the front bar. Use it offensively. You are a Sorc, AKA the most mobile class in the game (be it magicka or stamina), use that to your advantage, but be careful not to Streak more than 3 times in a row. Also animation cancel Streak so that you don't get that stupid root after casting it. My personal most effective combo is: Curse > Streak > Frag > *Overload Bar* > Endless Fury > 2 Overload attacks. Always works and kills even the most annoying Templars. Someone Crit Rushes to your face? Curse them, Streak through them, EXPOSE THEM! Someone perma-dodging? Curse them, Streak through them, EXPOSE THEM!
Don't use Daedric Minefield. Its s*** believe me, its very niche and only an idiot will walk into more than 1 mine at a time. There are idiots out in Cyro, but not to that point. If you want an immobilise either use the other morph of Mines (Daedric Tomb) or Restraining Prison. Both function much better than mines. Why? Mine + Atro camping is a meta I never took part in. To me if you stay immobile in one spot as a Sorc, you die. Mobility is your strength, use it!

These are my tips for playing magicka Sorc in PvP. I can give my skills, my stats and my gear, just ask for it. @Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Good stuff, although I'll disagree on a few things including gear traits. I'd keep infused on the large and divines or Impen on the small. I use CP in tumbling over well-fitted, since CP can't give more max magicka.

+1000 on hardened over empowered ward. You also absolutely need to block cancel the animation on it, or the shield is like four seconds. Practice! Front bar it and keep it in your rotation, if you have to flip bars to cast it you will die. Once you get it right, it's great in PVE too.

I keep ice comet for the dot and the AOE effect, it seems to do better with potatoes sitting on that spot.

Mines are still good against nightblades that spam lotus fan over and over without looking at where they'll land. But most importantly, daedric mines completely negate melee pets, IC mobs, and NPC guards chasing you. It's a utility skill that gets rid of annoyances and thus worth a bar slot over spending time killing those mobs. (Drop mines. Guards/Mobs/pets get stuck. Walk away normally and focus on other players.)

I disagree on the empowering thing, empowered frags don't hit much harder than a force pulse and a procced frag together. I recently removed it from my bar for mages wrath.

I agree completely on using streak as a weapon. Streak and overload is a great combination.

Mages wrath is a must, if you're not using it to finish people off, they'll just vigor, rally, and BoL back to full.

Edit: you're seriously making me rethink mines instead of radiant/Mage light or double barred frags. In a PVP fight there's almost never a good time to mines over say, defensive rune.

Izaki

Araviel2 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

For PvP you might want to put 100 points in bastion, for your wards to actually be meaningful in those 6 seconds. Wards do not crit, and as a sorc, you usually have to rely on your wards, so points into crit resist are a bit superfluous.

I considered but I find having the extra 1000+ crit resist comes in handy, rather than running divines and gaining maybe 50 more recovery.
Also hardy and Ele defender effect the dmg our shields take or so I read.

Non sense. When your shield is down, you are dead. No matter how much crit resist you have.
100 bastian, 30 elemental and 30 hardy is good enough. I would always build for maximum base damage and maximum base damage resistance. I would completely ignore crit in pvp unless your are stamina, becaus stamina doesn't really need to sacrifise anything for it.

i am probably one of the few sorcs who thinks that putting 100 points into bastion is suboptimal.
why? because of diminishing returns and because we can't increase our magica pool whit champion points, while most other things that we usually use gear traits for can. and ofc increasing magica pool = stronger shields as well as damage.

personally i put no more than 76 points into bastion, and more into elemental, hardy and resistant to avoid getting insta gibbed once my shields are down ( and a little crit res goes along way to prevent that). the difference from 100 point bastion is 4%.

and to compensate for a weaker shield one can also move harden ward to the attack bar, and that is something that i think is a good idea in any case as i think it makes more sense to keep our most spammable skills together whit crystals to proc frags whit.

It is suboptimal, because Hardy and elemental defender apply to your shields...

I thought shields didn't have any mitigation values? In other words, they take full tool tip damage, right?

yea i was under this impression too, but if Minalan says elemental and hardy affects it im not so sure anymore. he seems to know his sorcery.

can anyone else confirm?

Confirmed

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

@IzakiBrotheSs
@Minalan
Thanks for the detailed post, i read it.

I have a question why do most people go for mages wrath? I find the morph endless fury is 100 times better. I get over 4k mag back, is there a cool down on it?

Also if you wouldn't mind sharing your stats or your build?
As I said atm I'm:
5 kag
2 EG
3 will power
Random staffs.
Thinking of dropping EG for molag kena and 2 piece transmutation to get more spell dmg and recovery.
What you think? Cheers

Minalan

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

@IzakiBrotheSs
@Minalan
Thanks for the detailed post, i read it.

I have a question why do most people go for mages wrath? I find the morph endless fury is 100 times better. I get over 4k mag back, is there a cool down on it?

Also if you wouldn't mind sharing your stats or your build?
As I said atm I'm:
5 kag
2 EG
3 will power
Random staffs.
Thinking of dropping EG for molag kena and 2 piece transmutation to get more spell dmg and recovery.
What you think? Cheers

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2epsmdv&s=9#.V6lnJVT3aJI

The health here is a little too high because we have emp. The spell damage is 3100 buffed without the spell damage enchant, that takes it to 3500. With 40K magicka it hits like a truck.

As for your build, it lacks sustain. You'll have to toss in some spell cost reduction glyphs.

Staff? Use a fire or lightning staff. Gold. Sharpened. Spell damage enchant. The difference between yellow and purple damage is huge.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Okay first thing you need to know is that any random staff blows the Maelstrom Staff out of the water if you're not using Wall Of Elements which you obviously aren't because its PvP. So keep those weapons you have now.

Second thing is that there's no point in running 3 shields. Choose 1 (Hardened Ward) and then the resto staff. No point in running shields that don't overlap for more than 6 seconds. Use Boundless Storm for armor and mobility instead of Dampen Magic. Why Hardened and not Empowered? 10 second duration is useless in outnumbered situations, and the stronger ward buys you more time to counter-attack. Use shields reactively. If you're taking damage, pop a shield. Don't spam your shield before entering a fight its useless, it only last 6 seconds remember?

Third thing as far as traits go, run 5 Impen and 2 Well-Fitted. I've always been using Impen in PvP, even before the modifications to shields (note that I don't say nerf, I don't consider it a nerf) and Well-Fitted for those occasional Dodge rolls. For Undaunted I suggest running 6 light 1 heavy, that way you have very decent sustain and very decent stat pools. Apparently sustain is even tougher this patch, so 6 light 1 heavy just seems to be the perfect set-up.

Now for the gear set-ups apparently regen formula has been changed. So I would suggest running cost reduction over recovery. So Seducer is probably still the number 1 set. Restored to its former glory as some would say. Amberplasm looks pretty nice too, but it needs testing. Kags is also fairly good. Engine Guardian is a must if you plan on 1vXing.

Run Inner Light on your front bar and enpower that C-Frag. Run Power Surge on back bar, its better, more simple and works in stealth.
Use Overload! I know many people who hate it, but its very effective and it does really hit like a truck. The whole point behind Overload is not spamming it, but using it like you would use an Ice Comet or a Dawnbreaker. If you spam Overload, everyone will dodge it and you'll end up getting yourself killed. Overload the opponent only when he's stunned or in the process of breaking free (Streak, Frags, interrupts from Crushing Shock). Its a difficult thing to get right, far from being easy mode as everyone claims.
Run Shooting Star on your back bar. If you see enemies grouped up, cast it in the middle while Streaking through them, to stun them. Why Shooting Star over Ice Comet? That ulti return for each target hit enables you to use a few Overloads for cleaning up the mess.
Run Streak on the front bar. Use it offensively. You are a Sorc, AKA the most mobile class in the game (be it magicka or stamina), use that to your advantage, but be careful not to Streak more than 3 times in a row. Also animation cancel Streak so that you don't get that stupid root after casting it. My personal most effective combo is: Curse > Streak > Frag > *Overload Bar* > Endless Fury > 2 Overload attacks. Always works and kills even the most annoying Templars. Someone Crit Rushes to your face? Curse them, Streak through them, EXPOSE THEM! Someone perma-dodging? Curse them, Streak through them, EXPOSE THEM!
Don't use Daedric Minefield. Its s*** believe me, its very niche and only an idiot will walk into more than 1 mine at a time. There are idiots out in Cyro, but not to that point. If you want an immobilise either use the other morph of Mines (Daedric Tomb) or Restraining Prison. Both function much better than mines. Why? Mine + Atro camping is a meta I never took part in. To me if you stay immobile in one spot as a Sorc, you die. Mobility is your strength, use it!

These are my tips for playing magicka Sorc in PvP. I can give my skills, my stats and my gear, just ask for it. @Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Good stuff, although I'll disagree on a few things including gear traits. I'd keep infused on the large and divines or Impen on the small. I use CP in tumbling over well-fitted, since CP can't give more max magicka.

+1000 on hardened over empowered ward. You also absolutely need to block cancel the animation on it, or the shield is like four seconds. Practice! Front bar it and keep it in your rotation, if you have to flip bars to cast it you will die. Once you get it right, it's great in PVE too.

I keep ice comet for the dot and the AOE effect, it seems to do better with potatoes sitting on that spot.

Mines are still good against nightblades that spam lotus fan over and over without looking at where they'll land. But most importantly, daedric mines completely negate melee pets, IC mobs, and NPC guards chasing you. It's a utility skill that gets rid of annoyances and thus worth a bar slot over spending time killing those mobs. (Drop mines. Guards/Mobs/pets get stuck. Walk away normally and focus on other players.)

I disagree on the empowering thing, empowered frags don't hit much harder than a force pulse and a procced frag together. I recently removed it from my bar for mages wrath.

I agree completely on using streak as a weapon. Streak and overload is a great combination.

Mages wrath is a must, if you're not using it to finish people off, they'll just vigor, rally, and BoL back to full.

Edit: you're seriously making me rethink mines instead of radiant/Mage light or double barred frags. In a PVP fight there's almost never a good time to mines over say, defensive rune.

I run a "weird" sorcerer set-up so its very hard to explain how everything works without actually seeing it. Basically be as mobile as possible and as aggressive as possible no matter what. Use Overload and Streak, the best sorcerer abilities.
But yes I do think that mines aren't that useful at all, they are very glorified by streamers but in my experience, Daedric Mines is a really useless skill. If anything the other morph is great for ground control, but its pretty much Restraining Prison with a bit of damage.

@Wrecking_Blow_Spam
Endless Fury is the way to go. Its much better in open world. Kill a Jesus Beamer get 4k magicka. Simple as that. I use Endless.

So to me personally if you plan on going out solo, Engine Guardian is a must. Nothing beats those ressource returns. Ironically, I just dropped it for a more offensive set-up, but I only use it when I have my 2 squad mates.
So I'll tell you what my new gear set up is:
1 Molag Kena shoulder piece
5 Seducer pieces on the body
3 Elegance on the jewelry and 1 Elegance on the body
1 Elegance Destruction Staff (inferno, sharpened I FINALLY GOT IT!!!) => Spell Damage Enchant
1 Elegance Restoration Staff => Increase Stamina Cost Poison (cuz I'm jealous of stamina builds' sustain)

So here I have around 41k Magicka on the Destro bar with 3.4k Spell Damage, 1.9k Magicka Recovery. and somewhere around 39.5k Magicka on the Resto bar with the rest of the stats staying the same. This is all fully buffed with pots, enchants and everything. Using tri-stat pots obviously, although sometimes I'd use Immovable pots.
My Overloads are hitting for around 18k... And I might sometimes Empower them... So yeah you get the idea. The difference is noticable even for your staff attacks though, so don't underestimate the Elegance set.

What I run solo open world is pretty standart for a sorc. I would love to get creative with the Amberplasm set, but have to wait until next week. I'll surely run my Elegance but instead of Seducer I'll go with Amberplasm. Maybe I'll even run with TBS and Amberplasm who knows? Anyways right now its simple:
2 Engine Guardian
5 Seducer
3 Willpower
1 Moondancer Destro Staff (just cuz it looks badass) => Spell Damage Enchant
1 Elegance Resto Staff => The Root Poison (forgot the name for it, the CC immunity is really handy)
I keep it simple, because its pretty damn effective. The sustain is huge and while the damage is a bit low for my taste, I really don't care, because Overload.
Stats are okay too: 40k Magicka, 3.1k Spell Damage, 1.9 Magicka Recovery. Sustain is amazing. Can stay up all night Streaking around Cyrodiil/Imperial City spamming my beloved Hardened Ward. I'll say it again, the damage gap is noticable between my creative and interesting Elegant set-up and this... thing. But its really the best you can have currently for solo play. Combos will still be lethal, but you must be quicker with your burst and your CCs.

You want to know my bar set-up too? Cause this comment is getting really long, so I thought I won't put everything in..!

Izaki

juhasman wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Okay first thing you need to know is that any random staff blows the Maelstrom Staff out of the water if you're not using Wall Of Elements which you obviously aren't because its PvP. So keep those weapons you have now.

Disagree. 189 spell dmg for 1 piece is a good option. I know some can say crafted enchant gives 348 but enchant last 5 sec and have 10 sec cooldown and can be used only on fight. Also You can put poison into maelstorm and still have 189 spell dmg because this stat is not suspended by poison and any other crafted enchantments.

No its a 6 second cooldown. Only poisons have 10 second cooldowns. And about thepart that it can only be used in a fight... Well, isn't that what Spell Damage is for? So if you want raw stats random staves are better. Sure you can use poisons, but I'd take the enchantment over ANY poison any time. Why? Cause poisons are situational.
There's a reason PvE'ers slot the Maelstrom Staff on their back bar now

Ohhgrizyyy

Just depending on if you like attack and crushing shock spam animation cancel to proc your crystal frag but maybe try looking at the Galerions Revenge set you buy with tevlar stones?

TreeHugger1

I am new in pvp(what I am saying is based on what I heard).
if the enemy can interrupt engine guardian and it gives u randomly magicka/stamina/heath then how does it help u? is there anyway to protect it?
Is infused restro staff with spell damage enchant with and sharpened destro with poision/enchant viable?
I would like to see your bar set-up:)

Minalan

What are the elegance set stats? Is it spell or weapon damage on the two piece? And is it 10 or 20% light/heavy attack damage increase on the five?

I hear you can get it in Wrothgar, is SO the only place to find it?

Ohhgrizyyy

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

I am new in pvp(what I am saying is based on what I heard).
if the enemy can interrupt engine guardian and it gives u randomly magicka/stamina/heath then how does it help u? is there anyway to protect it?
Is infused restro staff with spell damage enchant with and sharpened destro with poision/enchant viable?
I would like to see your bar set-up:)

My old but still very liable bar setup is

Main Hand Destro: Crushing shock, Vicious Curse, Crystal Frag, Streak, Endless Fury

Off Hand Restro: Harness Magic,Hardened Ward,Healing Ward, Power Surge, Daedric Minefield

Its what I've always used and what I always suggest for any buddies of mine on their Sorc, This is primarily a (pvp only) bar setep

Gear wise depends on if you want higher burst or sustained, I'd at least go with 4 piece Seducer but again is completely up to you if you rather go burst instead of sustained damage. I'd also either farm out or buy the whole willlpower set for your 3 piece bonus of jewelry all with arcane again until you would rather use your rings for a different craftable set.

But this is all just advice man, Thats all it is man........DO WHATEVA DA' *** YOU WANNA DO!!

Ohhgrizyyy

Minalan wrote: »

What are the elegance set stats? Is it spell or weapon damage on the two piece? And is it 10 or 20% light/heavy attack damage increase on the five?

I hear you can get it in Wrothgar, is SO the only place to find it?

Elegant is 2 piece weapon damage, 3 piece max mag, 4 piece max mag, 5 piece increased light and heavy attack damage by 20%

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

I am new in pvp(what I am saying is based on what I heard).
if the enemy can interrupt engine guardian and it gives u randomly magicka/stamina/heath then how does it help u? is there anyway to protect it?
Is infused restro staff with spell damage enchant with and sharpened destro with poision/enchant viable?
I would like to see your bar set-up:)

Engine gaurdian is good on sorc in open world when outnumbered. Normally you have to kite the other players when there's 3+. This means not running but more like getting in a better position and during in this you'll be shielding, streaking etc and hopefully engine Gaurdian procs. Yes 1v1 it's not the best but open world for sorc it's still solid.

Minalan

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

What are the elegance set stats? Is it spell or weapon damage on the two piece? And is it 10 or 20% light/heavy attack damage increase on the five?

I hear you can get it in Wrothgar, is SO the only place to find it?

Elegant is 2 piece weapon damage, 3 piece max mag, 4 piece max mag, 5 piece increased light and heavy attack damage by 20%

That's not bad, but not nearly as good as the three piece willpower bonuses coupled with two Magnus, two Kena, or even two engine guardian.

I wouldn't make the switch.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

What are the elegance set stats? Is it spell or weapon damage on the two piece? And is it 10 or 20% light/heavy attack damage increase on the five?

I hear you can get it in Wrothgar, is SO the only place to find it?

@Minalan
129 Spell Damage, two 967 Magicka bonuses and 20% damage on light and heavy damage. Amazing set. The 4 piece rivals with Willpower (the loss of spell damage is compensated by max magicka) and those Overloads are absolutely stupid strong. Its NOT weapon damage! Its spell damage!

You can get the under 50 level versions in Wrothgar public dungeons but the only way to get the Jewelry and the weapons is the Serpent in Sanctum Ophidia.