Weakest Class in Solo PvP?

thankyourat

Magicka Dragonknight

Cinbri wrote: »

Those who claim that solo magicka templar is OP, 100% don't play one.
-No solid CC/root capability to hold enemies nearby.
-No mobility, even with mistform(thanks to gapclosers' snare that making mist almost usless vs large groups chasing).
-Worst class sustain(sorry but even 25k BoL won't save you if you out of stamina in open world).
Ofcourse nowdays no magicka templar run solo in open world to pick this option, while majority of DKs were solo-rambos that were nerfed and based on this immersion "1dk can't win 15 enemies anymore" claiming they are worst. Anyone rationally prove that I am wrong?
P.S.: by solo pvp I see 1vX, not 1v1.

I agree with this. I don't think they are bad as mag dk for solo because they have higher burst. But mag dk, magblade, and magplar are all weak right now in solo PvP.

Armitas

Magicka Dragonknight

Whose idea was it to give stamina root immunity, snare immunity, 20% dodge, nigh infinite dodge roll, I-frames, tons of weapon damage, and 4.5k healing hots? Why would anyone even consider letting that happen?

vortexman11

Magicka Dragonknight

Whoa stam sorc currently has zero votes. Best solo class confirmed? xD

forzajuve212

Magicka Dragonknight

Magicka DK is a fun and unique spec (which is why I have enjoyed playing it for a year despite the weaknesses) but it clearly takes the weakest class in solo open world PVP. As others have mentioned, all stamina builds can spec for high damage high healing high tanking, and most other magicka classes can as well. For magicka DK, you cannot go all in on everything. If you go into high damage (destro/resto, dualwield), you're going to die in 3 seconds to any average stamina build.You have no way to mitigate damage, no way to dodge damage, and no way to contain the damage on you (like NB's with fear). If you go into tankyness (sword board sword board) your already weak hitting whip gets even weaker with 2-3k max spell damage, with most whips hitting around 3-5k against a good player with optimal CP and impen. Even if you go for multiple dots, your damage can easily be purged or out healed by pretty much any other spec in the game.

And before someone says "Oh why do dks want to be tanky and do damage? Choose one!", I would agree with you on that except all stam builds can out heal, out dps, and out tank a magicka dk while specing 100% fully into damage output. This also applies to magicka templars, who with a swipe of a hand can heal themselves and allies to full while the DK is still popping his 3rd tick of 2k dragon blood healing with major mending. Essentially, there are too many exceptions to that rule. Either buff DK's so they can do damage and tank and heal, or nerf everyone down to the magicka dk standard where you need to pick and choose, while trading either damage healing or mitigation.

yodased

Magicka Dragonknight

I love my mdk, but there is not any way I can perform to the level of other classes solo.

Put me in a good 4 man though and you probably won't be very happy

If they buff mdk too much, it can be seriously over performing. ZOS isn't know for soft touches, they may wind up giving us our own beam of jesus

Hexys

Magicka Dragonknight

From worst to best in my opinion: (Based on actually killing and not tanking)
8. Magicka Dragonknight >> 7. Magicka Templar >> 6. Stamina Sorcerer >> 5. Magicka Sorcerer >> 4. Magicka Nightblade >> 3. Stamina Dragonknight >> 2. Stamina Templar >> 1. Stamina Nightblade

forzajuve212

Magicka Dragonknight

yodased wrote: »

I love my mdk, but there is not any way I can perform to the level of other classes solo.

Put me in a good 4 man though and you probably won't be very happy

If they buff mdk too much, it can be seriously over performing. ZOS isn't know for soft touches, they may wind up giving us our own beam of jesus

Exactly this, mdk is strong in group play for it's area control, defiles, roots, and consistent aoe damage. I really think they only need to do a few touches to fix this problem such as buffing dragon blood, or adding cinder storm dodge chance, maybe even applying major/minor spell pen on whip sorta like surprise attack. Anything more drastic isn't really necessary, such as giving us our own jesus beam.

Jules

Magicka Dragonknight

Hexys wrote: »

From worst to best in my opinion: (Based on actually killing and not tanking)
8. Magicka Dragonknight >> 7. Magicka Templar >> 6. Stamina Sorcerer >> 5. Magicka Sorcerer >> 4. Magicka Nightblade >> 3. Stamina Dragonknight >> 2. Stamina Templar >> 1. Stamina Nightblade

My own thoughts on the hierarchy:
1. Stamina Templar
2. Stamina nb
3. Magicka Templar
4. Stamina sorc
5. Magicka sorc
6. Stamina dk
7. Magicka nb
8. Magicka dk

Jules

Magicka Dragonknight

Cinbri wrote: »

Those who claim that solo magicka templar is OP, 100% don't play one.
-No solid CC/root capability to hold enemies nearby.
-No mobility, even with mistform(thanks to gapclosers' snare that making mist almost usless vs large groups chasing).
-Worst class sustain(sorry but even 25k BoL won't save you if you out of stamina in open world).
Ofcourse nowdays no magicka templar run solo in open world to pick this option, while majority of DKs were solo-rambos that were nerfed and based on this immersion "1dk can't win 15 enemies anymore" claiming they are worst. Anyone rationally prove that I am wrong?
P.S.: by solo pvp I see 1vX, not 1v1.

Plenty of them do play magicka Templar and still say it's OP. See: @blabafat

Idk how you could ever think this class is weak with undodgeable executes that have two scaling mechanisms and can be applied at max distance, cc's that go through block (lum shards), major mending, sick self healing, so much regen potential through channeled focus and repentence, damage that can be used as ST or AOE and HEALS while it does damage AND props additional damage AND can't be dodged, AND a purify of 5 negative effects in a permasnarepoisonroot meta... I mean... Yeah. It's not the weakest solo class. When you compare that with the permasnared, poor damage, poor healing mDk- it's not even close.

Ghostbane

Magicka Dragonknight

Heh.

I solo on my mDK sometimes to make turning the game off and getting some work done seem appealing.

If I spec everything into damage, a fart could two shot me.
If I spec everything into tankiness, I make an ass of myself chasing after people who got fed up fighting me.
If I spec 50/50 into either, I can farm some new players, a small amount, nothing more.

The class and method system you play, the one people say is fine solo, shouldn't make you question, everyday, "I'm going stamina"

Stamina DKs don't leave a fight and say to themselves, "God damn it, if only I were magicka.."

Another new update, with no support. I'm going stamina.

Jules

Magicka Dragonknight

Ghostbane wrote: »

Heh.

I solo on my mDK sometimes to make turning the game off and getting some work done seem appealing.

If I spec everything into damage, a fart could two shot me.
If I spec everything into tankiness, I make an ass of myself chasing after people who got fed up fighting me.
If I spec 50/50 into either, I can farm some new players, a small amount, nothing more.

The class and method system you play, the one people say is fine solo, shouldn't make you question, everyday, "I'm going stamina"

Stamina DKs don't leave a fight and say to themselves, "God damn it, if only I were magicka.."

Another new update, with no support. I'm going stamina.

:'(

forzajuve212

Magicka Dragonknight

Ghostbane wrote: »

Heh.

I solo on my mDK sometimes to make turning the game off and getting some work done seem appealing.

If I spec everything into damage, a fart could two shot me.
If I spec everything into tankiness, I make an ass of myself chasing after people who got fed up fighting me.
If I spec 50/50 into either, I can farm some new players, a small amount, nothing more.

The class and method system you play, the one people say is fine solo, shouldn't make you question, everyday, "I'm going stamina"

Stamina DKs don't leave a fight and say to themselves, "God damn it, if only I were magicka.."

Another new update, with no support. I'm going stamina.

Another victim to Eric Wrobel's balancing

Lokey0024

Magicka Dragonknight

Mdk has a decent toolkit right now. Just needs some tweaks. I can have a sorc bubble anywhere from 10-12k, whip is kinda meh but has decent utility. Vamp changes where very good. IDK about you but i still run evasion on mdk cuz opmuchyez.

some of the damage passives need revamped because they're weak AF, tooltips need clarity (how long does 12% bonus healing passive last after cast, what returns are to be had on battle roar)

I would like dragonsblood to actually provide a decent heal, would be nice for my old school sword and board/destro set up. Choking talons is a physical magic ability, thought they fixed those. And for the love of money an execute. Molten armernments lightning beam of death would be epic, or resto beam of lulz.

Lieblingsjunge

Magicka Dragonknight

Even though I've seen a lot of beefy mDKs recently, they might not be the strongest class for 1vX. But in Duels and in groups these things are nice.

CatchMeTrolling

Magicka Dragonknight

Come on now

CatchMeTrolling

Magicka Dragonknight

Every stam class is in a good place, mag sorcs, magblade and magdks are underperforming. Yeah a decent player can make them work but that's besides the point.

Armitas

Magicka Dragonknight

They will read this thread, then 2 months later. Stamblade buffs.

Maztiax

Stamina Templar

You forgot to list Health-based builds }:-(

Ghost-Shot

Magicka Dragonknight

@Wrobel look at this list, do you get that something is wrong yet?

Jules

Magicka Dragonknight

Was the person who chose stamina Templar drunk, orrrrrr....??

CatchMeTrolling

Magicka Dragonknight

The problem is the devs don't play their own game, at least PVP wise, it's very obvious when they speak on it.

ssewallb14_ESO

Magicka Dragonknight

Worst to best of the spec's that I've personally played solo:

1. MagDK, by a lot
2. Magplar
3. Magblade
4. Magsorc
5. Stamblade
6. Stam DK
7. Stamplar

Fix cloak or add a couple of people and the list changes quite a bit.

Ragnaroek93

Magicka Dragonknight

I don't think magicka DK is bad in duels but in open world they just don't fit the meta. The best class to wreck bad players is Stamblade and the best class against good players (mostly in 1vs1) are Stamdks and Magplars in my opinion.

PainfulFAFA

Magicka Dragonknight

My ranking
Stamplar
Stamsorc
Stamdk
Magplar
Mageblade
Stamblade
Magicka sorc
Magicka dk

Aldarenn

Magicka Nightblade

I say Magicka NB because even Divines glass cannon builds tickle. Those Concealed Weapons hit as low as Heavy Armor Tank mDK whips.

I see less magblades than mDKs and even less so playing solo. They both need help for sure, but I believe magblade is slightly worse than mDKs.

NeillMcAttack

Magicka Dragonknight

It's obviously no surprise that the stam builds are bottom of the pole, as you should expect!
But at the same time, it's almost impressive that mag temp is there with them!!

Cinbri

Magicka Templar

TL;DR

Jules wrote: »

Idk how you could ever think this class is weak with undodgeable executes that have two scaling mechanisms and can be applied at max distance

We talknig about solo pvp. Good luck to use channeled skill when fight 1v3, here is benefits ending. Kinda tired of listen it is OP coz it best Xv1 skill.

Jules wrote: »

cc's that go through block (lum shards)

Sorry but your argument proving itself what is wrong with templars. Luminous Shards apply disorient that break immideatley after receiving damage(unlike Fossilize), it means it will break immideatley after target will get any DoT even if it was just Degeneration to increase your spelldamage; and it was nerfed - now Luminous Shards disorient provide CC immunity. In battle it means - use Luminous Shards and enemy will get free CC immunity in next 0.3 sec. Good skill if you trying to make battle for your enemy easier.

Jules wrote: »

major mending, sick self healing

Major Mending is passive; unlike Battle Roar it can't be seriously boosted by sets, like, Tava can double ultimate gain - double ult gain means double more resources restored by Battle Roar in same amount of time.... It sounds like templars don't have right to have good passive.
"Sick self healing" - sorry, but there is no insane healing on azura. And on CP campaign - to get, as i exxegarated, 25k crit BoL you need to use Vitality pots and malubeth and invest very huge amount into such CP as Blessed, and that automatically exclude you from solo player as with low points into offensive CP you just won't kill anyone. Running solo build that can heal much but can't kill anyone I don't see reliable. Also as @Soris mentioned in other thread - there was no such problem before Battle Spirit was increased - if for some reason it will be decreased again, healing problem will dissapear. Ofcourse it frustrating to watch on healbot with all CP into heal buff, but like tank, he won't kill anyone.

Jules wrote: »

so much regen potential through channeled focus and repentence

Yes, channeled focus is nice, so once again tempalr can't have nice skills? Repentance - once of the greatest group skills but we talk about solo: 10% minor buff is nice but main templar's and dk's defense in 1vX is blocking, and as soon as you press block your stamina regen is equal to zero, 10% of zero is still zero. And again in 1vX use repentance wont grant any effect, unless use Engine, coz it affect only dead bodies. it also grant 10% hp regen, but hp regen is useless. Greendragonlbood grant 20% stamina regen, it more usefull than this. While DK have Battle Roar(that can be boosted) and Helping Hands passive in addition to Greendragonblood. Both those skills restore flat amount of stamina and not affecting stamina regen, i.e. can't be full negated by simply press block button(as templar it is really fun to read how DKs "lack of sustain"). So i don't see insane regeneration that would help templar to survive better in 1vX (as i said before - if you focused by 4 sorcs without stamina on block you will die even with 25k BoL) than DK.

Jules wrote: »

damage that can be used as ST or AOE and HEALS while it does damage AND props additional damage AND can't be dodged

You forgot to mention that it is also channeled , i.e. you can't block(!) while channeling it and as channel it will deal low damage untill full channel finished, so you may forget about animation cancelling to increase dps, in addition it is cone damage, not 360 degree AoE. As you can see every skill has its limitation and to be honest i would prefer old sweeps(is there still any templar veteran who remember old sweeps ).
Burning Light - what extraordinary with this passive? It is not unique, for example, sorcs have Implosion and Blood Magick passives that procs on hits. And Burning Light, unlike them, have GCD that was hidden by zos for long time...

Jules wrote: »

a purify of 5 negative effects in a permasnarepoisonroot meta

It sounds as if you dont like that finally after year of being trash templars got some beneift from new meta. DK can reflect 4 projectiles but templar dont have right to remove 5 debuffs?

So where am I wrong, one by one?

frozywozy

Magicka Templar

Buff Magplar.

Drdeath20

Magicka Dragonknight

Pvp is really meant for group and every class has a purpose but yes when duelling hits magicka dk's are gonna need something to catch up.

Holycannoli

What a strange world Tamriel is when magicka DK is considered UP and stamina sorc isn't. Not saying it's not true but it used to be the exact opposite. Magicka DK with light armor and vamp was unstoppable, and stamina sorc was a joke of a build that noone used except for craps and giggles.