For Bow Gankng

BoaNoite

Which two sets would be better for bow ganking from range and no melee attacks. Either 5pcs hunding rage/ 5pcs marksman and 1 kena or 5pcs Clever alchemist/ 5pcs marksman and 1 kena?

Toc de Malsvi

as long as you don't mind using pots alchemist is way better.

GreenSoup2HoT

5 Clever Alchemist, 5 Marksmen. You can wear both if you use Marksmen Jewelry. Then you still have room for any Monster Set you want. This is what i would personally use. This setup is very good for those 1 shot snipes / bow primary builds.

If you want to heavy attack gank then i'd suggest removing Marksmen and stacking weapon damage with Agility and say 2 Leki's with whatever monster set pieces you prefer.

As a stamina ganker in general, Clever Alchemist will all ways be in my setups. It's to valuable. I'm always chugging Immovable/Invisibility potions while i gank anyway. The duration of Clever Alchemist is not an issue, if you don't kill your target in the blink of an eye your doing it wrong or picking out the wrong targets. If anything the duration of Clever Alchemist is a challenge to see how many i can take out back to back before the duration is over.

SleepyTroll

I actually really don't like alchemist for ganking with a bow. I think 5 marksman and 5 hawkeye eye or flanking is better to do the fact that using alchemist you only hist like a truck for 15 sec. With 5 marksman 5 hawkeye and 1 kena running max hp/stam regen food I hit 17k snipes. And since the sets plus the food I have 2400 stam recovery, 3300 weapon damage and 13% increase damage on my abilities I don't have to run after a fail gank so I can stay and finish the job.

Highest I have hit snipe with this setup was 20k after using mark on a light armor, sub 300 cp player.

twistedmonk

SleepyTroll wrote: »

I actually really don't like alchemist for ganking with a bow. I think 5 marksman and 5 hawkeye eye or flanking is better to do the fact that using alchemist you only hist like a truck for 15 sec. With 5 marksman 5 hawkeye and 1 kena running max hp/stam regen food I hit 17k snipes. And since the sets plus the food I have 2400 stam recovery, 3300 weapon damage and 13% increase damage on my abilities I don't have to run after a fail gank so I can stay and finish the job.

Highest I have hit snipe with this setup was 20k after using mark on a light armor, sub 300 cp player.

I mean no offense to any players. I think most players that PvP in MMOs do it only because they are unfair fights. otherwise they'd be playing something like <insert your favorite first person shooter>

Champion points, gear, levels should not be a factor in PvP.

I guess they could just restrict Cyrodiil to only players with the CP cap (501). that would go a long way to making PvP more fair.

KenaPKK

@twistedmonk your comments on this forum confuse me. If you don't like PvP so much, then why are you on the PvP forums? If you do like PvP, then why are you so negative and cynical? Regardless, why do you make so many assumptions and generalizations about PvPers?

Toc de Malsvi

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

5 Clever Alchemist, 5 Marksmen. You can wear both if you use Marksmen Jewelry. Then you still have room for any Monster Set you want. This is what i would personally use. This setup is very good for those 1 shot snipes / bow primary builds.

If you want to heavy attack gank then i'd suggest removing Marksmen and stacking weapon damage with Agility and say 2 Leki's with whatever monster set pieces you prefer.

As a stamina ganker in general, Clever Alchemist will all ways be in my setups. It's to valuable. I'm always chugging Immovable/Invisibility potions while i gank anyway. The duration of Clever Alchemist is not an issue, if you don't kill your target in the blink of an eye your doing it wrong or picking out the wrong targets. If anything the duration of Clever Alchemist is a challenge to see how many i can take out back to back before the duration is over.

Marksman does affect heavy attacks I've tested, Marksman should always be worn.

Toc de Malsvi

SleepyTroll wrote: »

I actually really don't like alchemist for ganking with a bow. I think 5 marksman and 5 hawkeye eye or flanking is better to do the fact that using alchemist you only hist like a truck for 15 sec. With 5 marksman 5 hawkeye and 1 kena running max hp/stam regen food I hit 17k snipes. And since the sets plus the food I have 2400 stam recovery, 3300 weapon damage and 13% increase damage on my abilities I don't have to run after a fail gank so I can stay and finish the job.

Highest I have hit snipe with this setup was 20k after using mark on a light armor, sub 300 cp player.

With Alchemist I have heavy attacks that have hit for 26k+, if your fight goes longer than 15s then you have failed at ganking and have moved into normal open combat.

Toc de Malsvi

twistedmonk wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

I actually really don't like alchemist for ganking with a bow. I think 5 marksman and 5 hawkeye eye or flanking is better to do the fact that using alchemist you only hist like a truck for 15 sec. With 5 marksman 5 hawkeye and 1 kena running max hp/stam regen food I hit 17k snipes. And since the sets plus the food I have 2400 stam recovery, 3300 weapon damage and 13% increase damage on my abilities I don't have to run after a fail gank so I can stay and finish the job.

Highest I have hit snipe with this setup was 20k after using mark on a light armor, sub 300 cp player.

I mean no offense to any players. I think most players that PvP in MMOs do it only because they are unfair fights. otherwise they'd be playing something like <insert your favorite first person shooter>

Champion points, gear, levels should not be a factor in PvP.

I guess they could just restrict Cyrodiil to only players with the CP cap (501). that would go a long way to making PvP more fair.

There are non-CP campaigns go have a ball in there.

SleepyTroll

@Toc de Malsvi you have bow heavy atack hit players for 26k? Please show me. Not calling you a liare I seriously want to see this.

Toc de Malsvi

@SleepyTroll

Toc de Malsvi

Resistances are not too punishing unless they are running Radiant Magelight. Against tanks with my alchemist setup I usually still hit for 15k or so. I don't run that setup anymore though, tried to move more away from ganking and into a setup more favorable to open combat.

SleepyTroll

@Toc de Malsvi That is insane lol

Tormy

5 hunding 5 flanking 1 molag

BoaNoite

Thanks for the info, so it sounds like it should be 5 marksman/ 5 clever alchemist instead of 5 hundings correct?

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

twistedmonk wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

I actually really don't like alchemist for ganking with a bow. I think 5 marksman and 5 hawkeye eye or flanking is better to do the fact that using alchemist you only hist like a truck for 15 sec. With 5 marksman 5 hawkeye and 1 kena running max hp/stam regen food I hit 17k snipes. And since the sets plus the food I have 2400 stam recovery, 3300 weapon damage and 13% increase damage on my abilities I don't have to run after a fail gank so I can stay and finish the job.

Highest I have hit snipe with this setup was 20k after using mark on a light armor, sub 300 cp player.

I mean no offense to any players. I think most players that PvP in MMOs do it only because they are unfair fights. otherwise they'd be playing something like <insert your favorite first person shooter>

Champion points, gear, levels should not be a factor in PvP.

I guess they could just restrict Cyrodiil to only players with the CP cap (501). that would go a long way to making PvP more fair.

This couldn't be more wrong, for me it's variety of builds, sets, classes etc. On shooters it's a completely different thing.

On ranked Halo 3 - no special classes, guns etc everyone was on same footing, now a days all the shooters are evolving because now you can choose your setup, gun etc, so they're not on equal footing. Halo 1,2,3 ranked everyone was on equal footing (apart from Internet connections).

Edit: I was a 50 in most halo 3 playlists and carried multiple average players to 50 in doubles or team slayer.

Toc de Malsvi

BoaNoite wrote: »

Thanks for the info, so it sounds like it should be 5 marksman/ 5 clever alchemist instead of 5 hundings correct?

BoaNoite wrote: »

Thanks for the info, so it sounds like it should be 5 marksman/ 5 clever alchemist instead of 5 hundings correct?

Correct, Hundings has more overall sustain but does not offer nearly as much burst which is exactly what you are looking for when ganking. Alchemist works well to allow you to consciously prebuff before opening on a target, while getting massive burst potential in doing so. Flanking could work well instead of Alchemist if you didn't want to use pots but requires more attention to position.

Flanking+Alchemist would possibly give out the highest potential given you have your positioning correct, however would be very very weak outside of special positioning. Marksman offers the best overall output for bow users from a PVP perspective while being slightly lower damage wise than flanking and Alchemist but only within their damage boost peaks(position+potion usage).

Toc de Malsvi

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

I actually really don't like alchemist for ganking with a bow. I think 5 marksman and 5 hawkeye eye or flanking is better to do the fact that using alchemist you only hist like a truck for 15 sec. With 5 marksman 5 hawkeye and 1 kena running max hp/stam regen food I hit 17k snipes. And since the sets plus the food I have 2400 stam recovery, 3300 weapon damage and 13% increase damage on my abilities I don't have to run after a fail gank so I can stay and finish the job.

Highest I have hit snipe with this setup was 20k after using mark on a light armor, sub 300 cp player.

I mean no offense to any players. I think most players that PvP in MMOs do it only because they are unfair fights. otherwise they'd be playing something like <insert your favorite first person shooter>

Champion points, gear, levels should not be a factor in PvP.

I guess they could just restrict Cyrodiil to only players with the CP cap (501). that would go a long way to making PvP more fair.

This couldn't be more wrong, for me it's variety of builds, sets, classes etc. On shooters it's a completely different thing.

On ranked Halo 3 - no special classes, guns etc everyone was on same footing, now a days all the shooters are evolving because now you can choose your setup, gun etc, so they're not on equal footing. Halo 1,2,3 ranked everyone was on equal footing (apart from Internet connections).

Edit: I was a 50 in most halo 3 playlists and carried multiple average players to 50 in doubles or team slayer.

Yup, equal competition is really not all that desirable for most players. WoW addressed this when talking about pvp match making, that they found in close matches players on the winning side had a much different perspective on the fairness and enjoyability of the match compared to players on the losing side.

In the realm of isolated competition you will quickly rise to a tier of opponents that approximate your level of play. At which point the game can become exceedingly frustrating and you can start to feel like you can never get ahead, matching each win with a loss.

More directly to the topic at hand, producers are coming to realize that fair competitive play means that those individuals and groups that prioritize performance and work hard to be excellent will vastly out perform those who don't, and they will be vastly out numbered by those who don't perform well. Thus to appeal to the masses and sell content you have to work a balance of the appearance of equality while introducing imbalance in order to allow less skilled players to be able to defeat more skilled players occasionally.

This usually takes the form of moving away from greatly rewarding precision and accuracy, and moving towards what is colloquially described in some groups as: "spray and pray" tactics.

BoaNoite

Is there a way to add time to the 5pc bonus for clever alchemist which would make it longer than 15 seconds?

Quelhallow

I mainly play in BWB/Azuras, and considering how many nightblades are out there, I have found that 5x Hundings + 5x Vicecannon's does really well against cloak spammers. I consider this combination of gear to be my 'nightblade hunting' gear, and it has become the role I fulfill most of the time when two or three other NBs are ganking our lanes. So I use stealth detection pots. Heavy attack + Silver bolts (not silver shards, because it's broken and we don't exploit broken now do we?) from stealth, followed up by poison arrow and dawnbreaker - this is usually enough cheese to kill most people. I love bow ganking from atop rocks where I can knock them off with magnum arrow when they inevitably try to crit rush/ ambush. Bubble and BoL spammers can't keep up the healing if you work in a snipe or if your disease enchant procs off a heavy attack. Per usual, it's the flappy wings that are the weakness to bow ganking builds. I throw down a beast trap when I fight one of these DKs and make my escape with a speed pot once they hit it. Got to pick your fights, after all.

Toc de Malsvi

BoaNoite wrote: »

Is there a way to add time to the 5pc bonus for clever alchemist which would make it longer than 15 seconds?

Not that I am aware of.

BoaNoite

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

BoaNoite wrote: »

Is there a way to add time to the 5pc bonus for clever alchemist which would make it longer than 15 seconds?

Not that I am aware of.

how about the combo of 5pc marksman/ 5 pc hawkseye for pure bow ganking? would that work at all?

KenaPKK

Why are you guys putting so much effort into bow ganking? Genuine question.

Quelhallow

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why are you guys putting so much effort into bow ganking? Genuine question.

I enjoy the challenge and I see it as a way to play that is different from the current meta going around. Sort of how I have a character that protects keeps by only using siege and alliance-war abilities while wearing 0 armor (stolen costumes). I don't PvP to farm AP so I can get that (much coveted?) grand overlord title.

KenaPKK

But...bow is meta for ganking, and little bow gankers are scampering around everywhere...

(I hate bow gankers.)

Quelhallow

KenaPKK wrote: »

But...bow is meta for ganking, and little bow gankers are scampering around everywhere...

(I hate bow gankers.)

Well, I see many people open fights with bow attacks from stealth, but they also utilize other abilities - gap closers and executes.

I play my bow-ganker in this regard: if my enemy isn't dead by the time he or she reaches me, I stand a very good chance of losing the fight.

I don't ever PvP in CP land, but bow ganking isn't so common in BWB. Here, 12+ zergs hide in stealth to gank one person, many spamming encase/bombard. I very rarely see someone bow gank (or ganking/playing solo for that matter). It has become March of the Zergs here.

GreenSoup2HoT

KenaPKK wrote: »

But...bow is meta for ganking, and little bow gankers are scampering around everywhere...

(I hate bow gankers.)

Mfw im a duel wield ganker ... but i agree bow ganking is the most common form of ganking ive seen.

Junkogen

Quelhallow wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why are you guys putting so much effort into bow ganking? Genuine question.

I enjoy the challenge and I see it as a way to play that is different from the current meta going around. Sort of how I have a character that protects keeps by only using siege and alliance-war abilities while wearing 0 armor (stolen costumes). I don't PvP to farm AP so I can get that (much coveted?) grand overlord title.

How is bow ganking a challenge? You sit comfortably at a distance and lob arrows at unsuspecting players. Am I missing something? Sounds like the easiest play style ever.

KenaPKK

March of the gank zergs, oh goodness. That's a scary thought.

Quelhallow

Junkogen wrote: »

How is bow ganking a challenge? You sit comfortably at a distance and lob arrows at unsuspecting players. Am I missing something? Sounds like the easiest play style ever.

Try using only bow skills to gank. On squishier targets (a.k.a. our most recent invasion of potatoes with the sale and Japanese market), yes, you're right, it's very easy. On experienced players with impen traits, therein lies the challenge. Attacking from unsuspecting places buys you more time while they try to figure out where you are. And, since the current meta IS close quarters combat, you won't have long 'til you're face to face with fish breath. And, like I mentioned earlier, fewer and fewer people are travelling alone in Cyrodiil. Choosing battles plays a part of the challenge.

Toc de Malsvi

BoaNoite wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

BoaNoite wrote: »

Is there a way to add time to the 5pc bonus for clever alchemist which would make it longer than 15 seconds?

Not that I am aware of.

how about the combo of 5pc marksman/ 5 pc hawkseye for pure bow ganking? would that work at all?

Marksman+Hawkeye works very well for bow builds as a more all around sustain/dps, but has slightly less burst than Marksman+Hundings, and considerably less burst than Marksman+Alchemist. You can gank with it but you will find it weaker than the other two for quick kills from stealth.