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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861

Animation Cancelling - How is this possible?

Thayn
Thayn
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Sorry, not sure if this question should go here or in the Alliance War forum, or maybe some other combat-related one, but since I'm not certain I'll start here.

I understand the principal of animation cancelling - That you block or dodge or bar-swap at points in the animation to initiate another attack.

Now my PC isn't top of the line.. It's i7 3K gen, but it has a Geforce 980 and 16 GB of Ram on top of a SSD, so it runs the game fairly well. I also use a gamepad (G13) for inputs rather than a keyboard, so there may be some input lag from that.. And I'm sure my keyboard doesn't have cherry MX switches or anything that responsive when I do use it.. I also run FTC as an addon, with little much else. Having said all that..

I don't understand how this is possible.

https://youtu.be/fBSRbGTQY-c?t=25s

7021
1723
5444

.. All in one smooth motion, with what sounds like a lot of button mashing in the background.

Now I'm not upset by it, I see it all the time. This isn't that kind of post. I know Fengrush visit the forums, so maybe he or another experienced PvP player can explain how this is accomplished.

Now I understand it's possible in these kinds of situations to get some of that damage from procs from set items, or secondary ability affects. And I DEFINITELY understand I'm not as young as I used to be, and I never had the fastest of reflexes. But if you look EXACTLY at the 26s mark, for a fraction of a second, you can see what looks like *3* different attacks.If you replay it constantly, you can even hear the 3 hits.

How do you train yourself to put of 3 successive attacks with 0 lag in under a fraction of a second? All the while mashing buttons like a madman? Best I can come up with is:

Hold Heavy
Cancel
Light
Cancel
Dawnbreaker

.. Even with the heavy being held, you still do 4 actions perfectly.

I'm totally jelly.. How can I learn to do this?


Thanks!
#Wants2L2P
  • UltimaJoe777
    UltimaJoe777
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    Attack weaving does wonders.
    Edited by UltimaJoe777 on 19 July 2016 19:14
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • FullBlownBeast
    FullBlownBeast
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    It was a wrecking blow+light attack+dawn breaker. The original video is sped up for that small interval then goes back to normal.
    Edited by FullBlownBeast on 19 July 2016 19:19
    Plain and Simple
  • Thayn
    Thayn
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    It was a wrecking blow+light attack+dawn breaker. The original video is sped up.

    Ok, that makes sense that it was sped up. I don't see how, but certainly possible!

    The other thing is you don't even see a block animation until after the Dawnbreaker.
    Attack weaving does wonders.

    Oh no doubt! But how do people practice it? Do they just get friends to make an apposing faction character to beat on or something? :smile:

    This game really needs training dummies.. For us part time solo-schlomos!
    Edited by Thayn on 19 July 2016 19:22
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    This video you posted the link to says macro slice. Is this a sneaky way to say he used a macro to make that attack combo?
  • e1team
    e1team
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    I think its possible without any fancy keyboards. It's just a matter of timing. Most of the time I'm able to do it. Solar flare-vampire bane-cleave. One after the other with no delay in between.
  • xblackroxe
    xblackroxe
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    He lagged/bugged out. Thats why he started to laugh like this. No shady intentional mechanic/programm behind that.
    Member of HODOR

    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
  • UltimaJoe777
    UltimaJoe777
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    Thayn wrote: »
    It was a wrecking blow+light attack+dawn breaker. The original video is sped up.

    Ok, that makes sense that it was sped up. I don't see how, but certainly possible!

    The other thing is you don't even see a block animation until after the Dawnbreaker.
    Attack weaving does wonders.

    Oh no doubt! But how do people practice it? Do they just get friends to make an apposing faction character to beat on or something? :smile:

    This game really needs training dummies.. For us part time solo-schlomos!

    A great way to practice weaving attacks is use skills that don't require a target. Fiery Breath, Cleave, Whirlwind, etc.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
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  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    Thayn wrote: »
    It was a wrecking blow+light attack+dawn breaker. The original video is sped up.

    Ok, that makes sense that it was sped up. I don't see how, but certainly possible!

    The other thing is you don't even see a block animation until after the Dawnbreaker.
    Attack weaving does wonders.

    Oh no doubt! But how do people practice it? Do they just get friends to make an apposing faction character to beat on or something? :smile:

    This game really needs training dummies.. For us part time solo-schlomos!

    A great way to practice weaving attacks is use skills that don't require a target. Fiery Breath, Cleave, Whirlwind, etc.

    I also like to take off set gear and naked weave on mammoths in wrothgar... when its not crashing
  • Makkir
    Makkir
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    I am confused...the guy he was chasing was using bolt escape clearly....then upon death it says "Kill Enemy Templars"
    anyone notice that?

    I mean unless someone else in his group happened to kill a templar at the same moment...
  • Ffastyl
    Ffastyl
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    Animation cancelling has priorities. From highest to lowest, they are

    Block (and subsequently Bash)
    Roll Dodge
    Ultimate
    Ability
    Basic Attack (Light and Heavy Attacks)

    You can cancel/clip any animation with one higher on the list. Ultimate and Ability are possibly same priority, as are Block and Roll Dodge, but a swift Block after an ability to allow the Ultimate fire swiftly after is one way of canceling. The easiest way to animation cancel is to charge a Heavy Attack and hit an ability mid charge. If you time this too soon or late it cancels the Heavy Attack entirely, but timed correctly the Heavy Attack fully charges and when it fires it is followed by the ability, landing two attacks simultaneously.

    Many sword and board damage dealers apply the weave above, adding a bash to the end of it. Try it once you are comfortable with the Heavy Attack weave.
    Edited by Ffastyl on 19 July 2016 20:19
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  • Thayn
    Thayn
    ✭✭
    A great way to practice weaving attacks is use skills that don't require a target. Fiery Breath, Cleave, Whirlwind, etc.

    Great idea! Thanks for the tip!
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    I also like to take off set gear and naked weave on mammoths in wrothgar... when its not crashing

    .. And for that one!
    xblackroxe wrote: »
    He lagged/bugged out. Thats why he started to laugh like this. No shady intentional mechanic/programm behind that.

    Oh I didn't think there was anything shady behind it.. Just trying to understand how it's done. But lag would certainly cause some funky stuff.
  • UltimaJoe777
    UltimaJoe777
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Thayn wrote: »
    It was a wrecking blow+light attack+dawn breaker. The original video is sped up.

    Ok, that makes sense that it was sped up. I don't see how, but certainly possible!

    The other thing is you don't even see a block animation until after the Dawnbreaker.
    Attack weaving does wonders.

    Oh no doubt! But how do people practice it? Do they just get friends to make an apposing faction character to beat on or something? :smile:

    This game really needs training dummies.. For us part time solo-schlomos!

    A great way to practice weaving attacks is use skills that don't require a target. Fiery Breath, Cleave, Whirlwind, etc.

    I also like to take off set gear and naked weave on mammoths in wrothgar... when its not crashing

    I actually ran around Wrothgar naked and unarmed on my main boxing Mammoths with Leeching Strikes toggled on. I killed them handily ;) No pun intended lol
    Makkir wrote: »
    I am confused...the guy he was chasing was using bolt escape clearly....then upon death it says "Kill Enemy Templars"
    anyone notice that?

    I mean unless someone else in his group happened to kill a templar at the same moment...

    You do get credit for those quests if a groupie makes the kill so yeah I'd say a groupie made the kill the moment he died.
    Edited by UltimaJoe777 on 19 July 2016 20:14
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    It is not a combat system it is not alliance war related it is a bug period. Zenimax just doesn't want to take the man power to fix it for free.

    It is not intended it is not a combat mechanic it is a broken bug.
  • FloppyFrank
    FloppyFrank
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    It is not a combat system it is not alliance war related it is a bug period. Zenimax just doesn't want to take the man power to fix it for free.

    It is not intended it is not a combat mechanic it is a broken bug.

    So what you're saying is you want ZO$ to remove animation canceling, the one thing in the game that requires skill?
    Xbone GT: x mech duck x
  • FullBlownBeast
    FullBlownBeast
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    Thayn wrote: »
    A great way to practice weaving attacks is use skills that don't require a target. Fiery Breath, Cleave, Whirlwind, etc.

    Great idea! Thanks for the tip!
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    I also like to take off set gear and naked weave on mammoths in wrothgar... when its not crashing

    .. And for that one!
    xblackroxe wrote: »
    He lagged/bugged out. Thats why he started to laugh like this. No shady intentional mechanic/programm behind that.

    Oh I didn't think there was anything shady behind it.. Just trying to understand how it's done. But lag would certainly cause some funky stuff.

    That wasn't me, lol.
    Edited by FullBlownBeast on 19 July 2016 20:42
    Plain and Simple
  • Thayn
    Thayn
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    That wasn't me, lol.

    Woops!
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    That's faster then I can animation cancel .
  • bikerangelo
    bikerangelo
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    Detailed explanation for those who dunno what happened: I tested out the new animations when DB hit PTS, and prior to this, the end of an animation could be cancelled with block, weapon swap, another ability, etc. Now, the beginning of animations can be cancelled with only the end of it being displayed, but unfortunately, the entire animation will get cancelled if another ability is triggered at the right time, I.E., heavy attack into executioner (try it out on mobs, it's painful to watch).
    With this video, the damage and animations from crit rush got stuck, but abilities were still being triggered by Fengrush because he knows what should be happening, so all those abilities' animations & damage are stacking behind crit rush. Once crit rush goes off, so does everything else.

    It's worse than before, but it's not like ZOS doesn't pay attention to PTS feedback or anything.........
  • Wollust
    Wollust
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    I've done the very same thing as in that video. Looked exactly the same. But I've got no clue what causes this bugging out or how to replicate it. Has happened a few times already since they changed animation prioritization with the DB update.
    Susano'o

    Zerg Squad
  • OdinForge
    OdinForge
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    This is a delayed animation, probably as a result of the animation change this patch in dark brotherhood.

    For me this commonly happens sometimes after a crit rush, I'll press buttons and nothing will happen for a moment. Then a flurry of attacks will go off after, much similar to this.
    The Age of Wrobel.
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    It is not a combat system it is not alliance war related it is a bug period. Zenimax just doesn't want to take the man power to fix it for free.

    It is not intended it is not a combat mechanic it is a broken bug.

    So what you're saying is you want ZO$ to remove animation canceling, the one thing in the game that requires skill?

    It needs 0 skill it's just a bunch of button mashing removing it would not only fix alot of bugs but would also make players actually learn how to play and get skills.

    Its a bug that needs no skill.
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    It's completely possible.

    If you want to see an example of what's not possible look at the Big Bad Zerg Killers twitch stream. I'm not gonna say his name on the forums but he whined when I finally got his butt suspended.
  • bikerangelo
    bikerangelo
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    It is not a combat system it is not alliance war related it is a bug period. Zenimax just doesn't want to take the man power to fix it for free.

    It is not intended it is not a combat mechanic it is a broken bug.

    So what you're saying is you want ZO$ to remove animation canceling, the one thing in the game that requires skill?

    It needs 0 skill it's just a bunch of button mashing removing it would not only fix alot of bugs but would also make players actually learn how to play and get skills.

    Its a bug that needs no skill.

    Technically, it's only a bug if the devs label it as one, but their only acknowledgements of animation cancelling label it as an "unintended feature."

    No, It's not a bug, and yes, it requires a bit of practice. If you can't figure it out, there's several informative videos on youtube you ought to check out.
  • PainfulFAFA
    PainfulFAFA
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    Thayn wrote: »
    Sorry, not sure if this question should go here or in the Alliance War forum, or maybe some other combat-related one, but since I'm not certain I'll start here.

    I understand the principal of animation cancelling - That you block or dodge or bar-swap at points in the animation to initiate another attack.

    Now my PC isn't top of the line.. It's i7 3K gen, but it has a Geforce 980 and 16 GB of Ram on top of a SSD, so it runs the game fairly well. I also use a gamepad (G13) for inputs rather than a keyboard, so there may be some input lag from that.. And I'm sure my keyboard doesn't have cherry MX switches or anything that responsive when I do use it.. I also run FTC as an addon, with little much else. Having said all that..

    I don't understand how this is possible.

    https://youtu.be/fBSRbGTQY-c?t=25s

    7021
    1723
    5444

    .. All in one smooth motion, with what sounds like a lot of button mashing in the background.

    Now I'm not upset by it, I see it all the time. This isn't that kind of post. I know Fengrush visit the forums, so maybe he or another experienced PvP player can explain how this is accomplished.

    Now I understand it's possible in these kinds of situations to get some of that damage from procs from set items, or secondary ability affects. And I DEFINITELY understand I'm not as young as I used to be, and I never had the fastest of reflexes. But if you look EXACTLY at the 26s mark, for a fraction of a second, you can see what looks like *3* different attacks.If you replay it constantly, you can even hear the 3 hits.

    How do you train yourself to put of 3 successive attacks with 0 lag in under a fraction of a second? All the while mashing buttons like a madman? Best I can come up with is:

    Hold Heavy
    Cancel
    Light
    Cancel
    Dawnbreaker

    .. Even with the heavy being held, you still do 4 actions perfectly.

    I'm totally jelly.. How can I learn to do this?


    Thanks!
    #Wants2L2P

    What you see in that video is what happens since they made changes to animation priortization.
    Your abilities/animations will stutter, within a 1-3 sec window, and they will all go off at the time time after you do a certain sequence (light attacking once ur done with your rotation for instance)
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  • s7732425ub17_ESO
    s7732425ub17_ESO
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    Practice in group dungeons. They offer bosses where you can just stand still and spam abilities the whole time, and you can practice weaving during the entire fight.
  • Egonieser
    Egonieser
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    If you mash light attacks while doing a WB it actually cancels the animation of it (yet it still happens) but to a person it's done to or a bystander it may seem as much fewer attacks were executed. I do this on my baby NB in BWB who doesn't really have access to a lot of skills but this combination is old and works wonders. However it does feel a bit off because due to lack of animations the enemy can't see it coming and fail to put up a counter where in normal circumstances he would.
    Hence I'm swapping to dual wield and using 2h only for buffs. Feels less cheesy that way.
    Sometimes, I dream about...cheese...

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  • mdylan2013
    mdylan2013
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    It is not a combat system it is not alliance war related it is a bug period. Zenimax just doesn't want to take the man power to fix it for free.

    It is not intended it is not a combat mechanic it is a broken bug.

    So what you're saying is you want ZO$ to remove animation canceling, the one thing in the game that requires skill?

    That kind of view of animation cancelling really annoys me. The assumption that it's the only skill in the game and something that makes you better than others.

    In a PVP context I don't think it's right that a player can cancel the visual animation of a skill and still do the damage. Combat should be about seeing what your opponent is 'throwing' at you and you being able to counter it effectively. That to me is where the real skill lies in this game, not someone's ability to push a button at the right time.
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  • yodased
    yodased
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    The thing you are seeing is the middle of the crit rush being cancelled by a weapon saw light attack swap wrecking blow cancelled by a light attack.

    The issue comes with being able to cancel crit rush while in the middle of crit rush, so the windup of wrecking blow is already cancelable when the crit rush lands, so crit rush light attack wrecking blow dawn breaker all hit with 1.9 seconds of the initial cast of crit rush. Add lag and latency and you can get all those to hit same time.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • Van_0S
    Van_0S
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    My friend ! People like us have to do the hard way of animation canceling.
    Those, pro streamers use macros to achieve their goals. :p

    https://youtu.be/fBSRbGTQY-c

    Here, you can see the difference between macros and animation canceling.
    Edited by Van_0S on 19 July 2016 23:52
  • s7732425ub17_ESO
    s7732425ub17_ESO
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    Wait.

    Wait.

    Wait.

    The player he killed was a Sorc.

    But he got credit for "kill enemy Templars".

    Hacks exposed!!!!!
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