As a Magicka Sorcerer Must I?....

Hawke

Do I have to use Resto/Destro to be competitive? Is there some other alternative, or is that the meta now?

Thanks.

FriedEggSandwich

When has it ever not been the meta? You can play how you want if you can sustain, that is the major challenge to sorcs this patch. It's easy to stack damage, harder to keep fighting without running oom.

RebornV3x

Yes, no way around it this patch since sorcs don't have access to a good spammable. You have to use destro/resto kinda sucks lost alot of spell damage since you really can't duel wield this patch

Jsmalls

I'm using destro/s&b and id say I'm very competitive with it.

That being said Radiant destruction and shield breaker are the bane of my existence.

Lord-Otto

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

When has it ever not been the meta? You can play how you want if you can sustain, that is the major challenge to sorcs this patch. It's easy to stack damage, harder to keep fighting without running oom.

Last DLC, when you could use Trapping Webs instead. But hey! Undaunted skill line is all about synergies now! Excellent balancing!
d(ò.ó)

OP, yup, Destro/Resto is needed for dps and healing. The meta is actually re-rolling stam sorc or an entirely different class now.

Minalan

Hawke wrote: »

Do I have to use Resto/Destro to be competitive? Is there some other alternative, or is that the meta now?

Thanks.

Some people make dual wield and sword/shield work instead of destro staff, but you'll lack sustain DPS against Malubeth templars. Dual wield builds use overload and mages wrath for spammable DPS (wrath, procced frags, overload twice while they're down. Dead)

For healing there's nothing better than healing ward currently, until @Wrobel removes his pin shaped head from his backside and fixes dark deal. It should be instant, and it should scale with max magicka. It doesn't..

If you're talking PVE, dual destro works best, because you have a healer and tank in your group. You don't need shields or a heal.

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm using destro/s&b and id say I'm very competitive with it.

That being said Radiant destruction and shield breaker are the bane of my existence.

That, and you know. Not being able to heal.

I've never once lost a fight to a sorc trying to fumble a long dark deal. Whenever I see a Magicka sorc start a Dark Deal, I laugh to myself and finish them off quickly with crushing shock spam. Dead, they can never get off a heal with spammable ranged interrupts.

Dark exchange is meant for Stam sorcs, not Magicka types.

Jsmalls

@Minalan

Dark conversion isn't on my bar.

You don't happen to play X1 NA huh? I'd love to duel to show you my builds effectiveness.

I'm putting up ~28k in wards (if I even choose to use both which I often don't), and surge ticks for 2500~ on crits. When i choose to go offensive there really isn't much you can do to stop it for the 6 seconds it lasts. I'm very good at not letting people get to my health bar, especially in a 1 v 1. And in 1 v X's I've gone from execute to full health with boundless and surge up.

In theory it doesn't work, everyone I tell just says you run no "heal"? Yeah, okay tell me how that goes. Then they change their minds when they see it in action.

Minalan

Nah, NA/PC here. I'd love to see it against another streaking/healing sorc though.

The biggest issue I see is getting close enough to use boundless storm, while dealing with mines and overload from the enemy.

Araviel2

I mainly run dual wield on my mag sorc.
and yes it is true that it is lacking a little in sustain dps and i struggle against heavy tanks and malubeth.

however i don't do duels! so that is no big deal.
I use vicious death and i play 1vsX and bust zergs in open, and for that DW is just so much better as it gives me a allot higher burst than what Destro allows.

Cinnamon_Spider

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

Araviel2

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

what on earth has changed to our weapon skills?

Cinnamon_Spider

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

what on earth has changed to our weapon skills?

The change to Surge eliminated any possibility of using it over a resto staff for healing. And a lot of the dual wield sorcs used Tangling Webs as a spammable instead of Crushing Shock, but that is now a stamina ability.

Kas

personally, i'd say the destro part is mandatory now. a combination wiht resto is often the natural thing to do. i guess you could also play destro + dw in large groups / zergs for better ultimates / detos and you can go double destro or destro + s/b on pet builds (where you usually have lots of magicka, thus a bigger hardened ward and also access to heals from the pet).

Brrrofski

I don't see dual wield being as good as destro anymore.

Trapping webs is now physical
Inevitable det got nerfed
Dawnbreaker is now physical, so ice comet is probably the beat ultimate, so weaving helps generate enough ult.

I always ran destro/resto. You lose a bit of burst but get constant, sustained pressure on people. I've always preferred it.

Araviel2

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

what on earth has changed to our weapon skills?

The change to Surge eliminated any possibility of using it over a resto staff for healing. And a lot of the dual wield sorcs used Tangling Webs as a spammable instead of Crushing Shock, but that is now a stamina ability.

i disagree, if you have a build that can keep his shields up even a mediocre heal can do ok as you heal under it.
so what this change did was making shields more mandatory, and possible also making destro more redundant as you no longer can rely on surge as a sole mean of survival.

and spammables- im not sure what the big deal is here.
maybe it could be good to have to apply poisons whit ? i dunno..
otherwise if you are going up against someone who is taking full advantage of the heavy armor constitution passive i am not sure you would want one?

and if you ask a heavy armor user what they fear i am pretty sure that they wont say its the guy who used to spam Tangling Webs.
more likely they are going to say that its that heavy hitting burst guy who stacks allot of penetration,
Destro is nice for that though, but for some odd reason i see more Sorcs who are using clench rather than weakness to elements.

Cinnamon_Spider

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

what on earth has changed to our weapon skills?

The change to Surge eliminated any possibility of using it over a resto staff for healing. And a lot of the dual wield sorcs used Tangling Webs as a spammable instead of Crushing Shock, but that is now a stamina ability.

i disagree, if you have a build that can keep his shields up even a mediocre heal can do ok as you heal under it.
so what this change did was making shields more mandatory, and possible also making destro more redundant as you no longer can rely on surge as a sole mean of survival.

and spammables- im not sure what the big deal is here.
maybe it could be good to have to apply poisons whit ? i dunno..
otherwise if you are going up against someone who is taking full advantage of the heavy armor constitution passive i am not sure you would want one?

and if you ask a heavy armor user what they fear i am pretty sure that they wont say its the guy who used to spam Tangling Webs.
more likely they are going to say that its that heavy hitting burst guy who stacks allot of penetration,
Destro is nice for that though, but for some odd reason i see more Sorcs who are using clench rather than weakness to elements.

You disagree that Surge can't be used as a main heal? It used to heal you based off of critical damage you did and now it's just a flat value of about 2k. No one can survive in PVP with a heal that low.

Have you played a sorc? The spammable skill is used to proc an instant cast frag, which is going to be your main source of damage, along with curse and fury.

Araviel2

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

what on earth has changed to our weapon skills?

The change to Surge eliminated any possibility of using it over a resto staff for healing. And a lot of the dual wield sorcs used Tangling Webs as a spammable instead of Crushing Shock, but that is now a stamina ability.

i disagree, if you have a build that can keep his shields up even a mediocre heal can do ok as you heal under it.
so what this change did was making shields more mandatory, and possible also making destro more redundant as you no longer can rely on surge as a sole mean of survival.

and spammables- im not sure what the big deal is here.
maybe it could be good to have to apply poisons whit ? i dunno..
otherwise if you are going up against someone who is taking full advantage of the heavy armor constitution passive i am not sure you would want one?

and if you ask a heavy armor user what they fear i am pretty sure that they wont say its the guy who used to spam Tangling Webs.
more likely they are going to say that its that heavy hitting burst guy who stacks allot of penetration,
Destro is nice for that though, but for some odd reason i see more Sorcs who are using clench rather than weakness to elements.

You disagree that Surge can't be used as a main heal? It used to heal you based off of critical damage you did and now it's just a flat value of about 2k. No one can survive in PVP with a heal that low.

Have you played a sorc? The spammable skill is used to proc an instant cast frag, which is going to be your main source of damage, along with curse and fury.

no, what i disagree whit is that the change to surge makes any other weapon than destro useless.
quite the opposite, since surge is in such a weak state you do no longer need a destro staff to spam for surge crit heals.

and yes i play a sorc as my main and have done that since beta.
and i use harden ward and magelight/entropy to proc my crystal frags when i dual wield.

you sound like a PVE Sorc when you talk like that about spammable dps, but mate, we are in the PVP section of the forum now.

Cinnamon_Spider

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

what on earth has changed to our weapon skills?

The change to Surge eliminated any possibility of using it over a resto staff for healing. And a lot of the dual wield sorcs used Tangling Webs as a spammable instead of Crushing Shock, but that is now a stamina ability.

i disagree, if you have a build that can keep his shields up even a mediocre heal can do ok as you heal under it.
so what this change did was making shields more mandatory, and possible also making destro more redundant as you no longer can rely on surge as a sole mean of survival.

and spammables- im not sure what the big deal is here.
maybe it could be good to have to apply poisons whit ? i dunno..
otherwise if you are going up against someone who is taking full advantage of the heavy armor constitution passive i am not sure you would want one?

and if you ask a heavy armor user what they fear i am pretty sure that they wont say its the guy who used to spam Tangling Webs.
more likely they are going to say that its that heavy hitting burst guy who stacks allot of penetration,
Destro is nice for that though, but for some odd reason i see more Sorcs who are using clench rather than weakness to elements.

You disagree that Surge can't be used as a main heal? It used to heal you based off of critical damage you did and now it's just a flat value of about 2k. No one can survive in PVP with a heal that low.

Have you played a sorc? The spammable skill is used to proc an instant cast frag, which is going to be your main source of damage, along with curse and fury.

no, what i disagree whit is that the change to surge makes any other weapon than destro useless.
quite the opposite, since surge is in such a weak state you do no longer need a destro staff to spam for surge crit heals.

and yes i play a sorc as my main and have done that since beta.
and i use harden ward and magelight/entropy to proc my crystal frags when i dual wield.

you sound like a PVE Sorc when you talk like that about spammable dps, but mate, we are in the PVP section of the forum now.

So, you stand there spamming ward or magelight to proc a frag instead of putting pressure on enemies by doing damage to them?

And your offhand is resto, I assume? I spent the better part of last year running destro with sword and board and healed only through crits in PVP. Solo. The heal simply isn't strong enough for that now.

Araviel2

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With recent changes to some skills, the only option for a magic sorc is resto/destro.

what on earth has changed to our weapon skills?

The change to Surge eliminated any possibility of using it over a resto staff for healing. And a lot of the dual wield sorcs used Tangling Webs as a spammable instead of Crushing Shock, but that is now a stamina ability.

i disagree, if you have a build that can keep his shields up even a mediocre heal can do ok as you heal under it.
so what this change did was making shields more mandatory, and possible also making destro more redundant as you no longer can rely on surge as a sole mean of survival.

and spammables- im not sure what the big deal is here.
maybe it could be good to have to apply poisons whit ? i dunno..
otherwise if you are going up against someone who is taking full advantage of the heavy armor constitution passive i am not sure you would want one?

and if you ask a heavy armor user what they fear i am pretty sure that they wont say its the guy who used to spam Tangling Webs.
more likely they are going to say that its that heavy hitting burst guy who stacks allot of penetration,
Destro is nice for that though, but for some odd reason i see more Sorcs who are using clench rather than weakness to elements.

You disagree that Surge can't be used as a main heal? It used to heal you based off of critical damage you did and now it's just a flat value of about 2k. No one can survive in PVP with a heal that low.

Have you played a sorc? The spammable skill is used to proc an instant cast frag, which is going to be your main source of damage, along with curse and fury.

no, what i disagree whit is that the change to surge makes any other weapon than destro useless.
quite the opposite, since surge is in such a weak state you do no longer need a destro staff to spam for surge crit heals.

and yes i play a sorc as my main and have done that since beta.
and i use harden ward and magelight/entropy to proc my crystal frags when i dual wield.

you sound like a PVE Sorc when you talk like that about spammable dps, but mate, we are in the PVP section of the forum now.

So, you stand there spamming ward or magelight to proc a frag instead of putting pressure on enemies by doing damage to them?

And your offhand is resto, I assume? I spent the better part of last year running destro with sword and board and healed only through crits in PVP. Solo. The heal simply isn't strong enough for that now.

just standing there is the last thing i do.
you know streak is not so bad damage wise if you empower it whit a mage guild skill and it crits,
and the new buffed enchants we got now makes some DW light attack weaving pretty viable too.
i also got some other means of putting on pressure, it may not not be as effective as the pressure you get from Destro.
but i don't feel it matters as when its time to burst i will hit like a truck.

resto is my usual offhand as combat prayer whit the minor berserk is kind of a big deal when building magica bursts.
but i sometimes also run whit destro as offhand to get access to the elemental drain and stronger heavy attacks whit dark deal as my main heal. (yes dark exchange sucks in duels, but kind of works when you can run around corners)

and cudos to you for sticking whit surge heal for so long, i stopped using it as my only heal back when they introduced the aoe cap.

but enough, i want to get back to the topic, is destro/resto the only viable meta atm?
i say no, and i think you could even go whit 2h now as a magica sorc.

yes i said 2h... Oo

NordSwordnBoard

I use DW front bar; Lightning Staff back bar. Do what works for your preferred playstyle - I like lightning vs others because I can still zap roll dodgers with the channeled attack and it splashes damage when enemies cluster.

DW for burst, Lightning for standoff engagements.

bardx86

Brrrofski wrote: »

I don't see dual wield being as good as destro anymore.

Trapping webs is now physical
Inevitable det got nerfed
Dawnbreaker is now physical, so ice comet is probably the beat ultimate, so weaving helps generate enough ult.

I always ran destro/resto. You lose a bit of burst but get constant, sustained pressure on people. I've always preferred it.

For me and I ran DW for about a year it was the Inevitable nerf, never used webs. DW is fun for the big boom but you can't kill anyone with 1/2 brain anymore with DW. Our damage is to slow against the heals/vigor in the current game. Personally I think they need to up our damage as say dark flare hits as hard as a proc'ed/might of the guild frags that never lands.

bardx86

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I use DW front bar; Lightning Staff back bar. Do what works for your preferred playstyle - I like lightning vs others because I can still zap roll dodgers with the channeled attack and it splashes damage when enemies cluster.

DW for burst, Lightning for standoff engagements.

How do you freaking heal? Not sure this would work 1vX?

Minalan

bardx86 wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I use DW front bar; Lightning Staff back bar. Do what works for your preferred playstyle - I like lightning vs others because I can still zap roll dodgers with the channeled attack and it splashes damage when enemies cluster.

DW for burst, Lightning for standoff engagements.

How do you freaking heal? Not sure this would work 1vX?

No idea, but it works for him. I don't know how he deals with a typical instant injection/snipe combo, those usually eat into health. Stacking a heal ward with hardened you can survive two guys doing it with no health damage at the end.

PS: i see a lot of you using fire staves for the 8K heavy attack, I'm wondering how you guys do that with it getting reflected constantly?

The heavy lightning doesn't do that much damage, but it can't be dodged either. You see DK's spamming scales, to no effect.

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I use DW front bar; Lightning Staff back bar. Do what works for your preferred playstyle - I like lightning vs others because I can still zap roll dodgers with the channeled attack and it splashes damage when enemies cluster.

DW for burst, Lightning for standoff engagements.

How do you freaking heal? Not sure this would work 1vX?

No idea, but it works for him. I don't know how he deals with a typical instant injection/snipe combo, those usually eat into health. Stacking a heal ward with hardened you can survive two guys doing it with no health damage at the end.

PS: i see a lot of you using fire staves for the 8K heavy attack, I'm wondering how you guys do that with it getting reflected constantly?

The heavy lightning doesn't do that much damage, but it can't be dodged either. You see DK's spamming scales, to no effect.

I mean thats the issue right. I'm tore between fire and lighting I have both and will switch if i can. The thing with fire is with crushing weaving medium attack is normal more damage than a frag these days, hate to say it. So tired of a proc'ed might of the guild frag hitting for 4-5k, so not right, as it takes so much work to setup. Ive been trying the reso heavy with poisons but I'm not sure its as effective. In most cases tho i find the fire staff better except those pesky DK's and you know who your are!

Sandman929

I use lightning staff. The fire staff heavy attacks are too easily reflected, and easily blocked, you can see them coming at you a mile away.
The lightning staff does plenty of damage and, I don't know if it's true for fire staff because I don't use it, it scales up with thaumaturge.

NordSwordnBoard

bardx86 wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I use DW front bar; Lightning Staff back bar. Do what works for your preferred playstyle - I like lightning vs others because I can still zap roll dodgers with the channeled attack and it splashes damage when enemies cluster.

DW for burst, Lightning for standoff engagements.

How do you freaking heal? Not sure this would work 1vX?

Dark Awesomeness is my heal.

juhasman

Hawke wrote: »

Do I have to use Resto/Destro to be competitive? Is there some other alternative, or is that the meta now?

Thanks.

Define what is the destination of this sorc PvE or PvP?

Sandman929

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I use DW front bar; Lightning Staff back bar. Do what works for your preferred playstyle - I like lightning vs others because I can still zap roll dodgers with the channeled attack and it splashes damage when enemies cluster.

DW for burst, Lightning for standoff engagements.

How do you freaking heal? Not sure this would work 1vX?

Dark Awesomeness is my heal.

Really? That delay is just a deal breaker for me. It's a decent burst heal, but usually when I need one of those I need it now, not a second from now.

bardx86

Sandman929 wrote: »

I use lightning staff. The fire staff heavy attacks are too easily reflected, and easily blocked, you can see them coming at you a mile away.
The lightning staff does plenty of damage and, I don't know if it's true for fire staff because I don't use it, it scales up with thaumaturge.

Lighting staff does? interesting. whats your CP point allocation?

Sandman929

I don't recall off the top of my head, and as a console player I haven't done any extensive testing, but the damage ticks of a lightning staff channel are orange in color which as I understand it is a DoT. Right now I think my CP is 2:1 Elemental Expert to Thaumaturge.

*Edit: I remember now, I went with 12% in Thaumaturge and 12% in Staff Expert...I think around 80-85 in Elemental Expert. If it's a DoT, and an elemental, and a staff attack it should be hit by all three, but again, I don't know this for certain.

NordSwordnBoard

Minalan wrote: »

The heavy lightning doesn't do that much damage, but it can't be dodged either. You see DK's spamming scales, to no effect.

This. Going through reflect with a lightning flood & heavy attack at least forces most people out of that area. Also, as a standoff weapon, the Lightning staff kind of "paints" a target like a laser - it lets people know I'm targeting this guy and you can join in. Need a target? Follow the crooked white line. I'm well aware they can follow that line back to me as well.