Nightblades

Bramir

NBs should be able to one shot anyone who doesn't see them first. Its what makes the class fun to play! Anything else would just be dumb...

kadar

Jaronking wrote: »

@The_Outsider Why are you still arguing with @Lokey0024 he won't just admit that he is wrong no matter how much evidence you bring to counter his ridiculous claim.Your wasting your time explaining things to him because he will keep ignoring your points he won't admit he can possible be wrong no matter how many people tell him otherwise.

@Jaronking
Yeah, I know. I'll stop. It think it's like the last 2 or 3 replies in a row, he's resorted to insults or "not going to respond." That alone speaks to the strength of an arguement, imo.

And I'm not actually addressing him, moreso his comments. Like you said, he won't be convinced by evidence. My hope is that others will read this thread and consider the strength of other classes before they ask for nerfs.

Lokey0024

I would admit i was wrong if i was wrong. You provide supposition as fact with almost no thought into what you're actually saying. The Only reason im posting is to bump the thread.

Rilmarshim

No-no-no, nigtblades are totaly balanced and fair. Especially major breach to enemy, major ward and major resolve to you in their spammable DPS skill. There is nothing broken in spammable gap-closer without minimal distance that giving you empower. 100% crit chance after shadowy disguise is also totaly balanced. And 4.5% damage nerf of incapacitating strike which stuns, and gives major defile was terrible. They actualy should buff it. It also should snare, add major maim and increase cost of blocking, dodge rolling and using all abilities.

Lord-Otto

The_Outsider wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@The_Outsider you just don't get it. You deliberately ignore stuff, just dont have the brains to figure out what is right in front of you, or are arguing to throw out misinformation because you don't want your class nerfed.

Nightblades get 15% health recovery without having to slot any thing.

10% block dmg equates to 200-400 dmg.

If you had to stand in plain view of someone attacking you while healing is see not having mending being an issue. But you can dissa4kingpear from view.

Not sure if you knew this but the tankiest build in the game is a heavy armor Nightblade. The passive health regen, bonus health % for shadow abilities( which you more then likely have suprise attack and mass hysteria on your front bar 6% max health anyone?) and siphoning attacks ( which makes heavy armor build on a nightblade sustain better then any other class) make it not only viable But down right dangerous.

O dear did you just look to health regeneration as an argument to why something is good....OK

Nb tankiest build in game....ok...they are solid but not the tankiest

200-400 damage...on a 2k to 3k hit sure. People hit much harder than that. Additionally, adding in animation canceling and high burst combos the amount of damage blocked over a 1-2 second duration adds up real quick. Next thing you know your blocking major damage in a short time over people without 10% mitigation. Especially when getting hit by multiple targets.

WTT 10% more blocking for 5200 spell/physical resist passive. Will also give 3000 spell resist passive, if demanded.

But...you already have that... Every time you cast Hardened Armor.

Don't be ridiculous.
Spiked Armor itself is useless, people slot it only for the resistances, whereas Nightblades, the supposed "squishy" class, get the freedom to slot any useful shadow ability. And no one uses Hardened Armor, it's Volatile. Hardened got nerfed too hard with the shield nerf.
And yeah, not only are DKs forced into using a trash skill to achieve the same NBs do, we kinda HAVE to slot that trash just to survive. It should be the other way round, if DKs are supposed to be the tanky class.

kadar

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@The_Outsider you just don't get it. You deliberately ignore stuff, just dont have the brains to figure out what is right in front of you, or are arguing to throw out misinformation because you don't want your class nerfed.

Nightblades get 15% health recovery without having to slot any thing.

10% block dmg equates to 200-400 dmg.

If you had to stand in plain view of someone attacking you while healing is see not having mending being an issue. But you can dissa4kingpear from view.

Not sure if you knew this but the tankiest build in the game is a heavy armor Nightblade. The passive health regen, bonus health % for shadow abilities( which you more then likely have suprise attack and mass hysteria on your front bar 6% max health anyone?) and siphoning attacks ( which makes heavy armor build on a nightblade sustain better then any other class) make it not only viable But down right dangerous.

O dear did you just look to health regeneration as an argument to why something is good....OK

Nb tankiest build in game....ok...they are solid but not the tankiest

200-400 damage...on a 2k to 3k hit sure. People hit much harder than that. Additionally, adding in animation canceling and high burst combos the amount of damage blocked over a 1-2 second duration adds up real quick. Next thing you know your blocking major damage in a short time over people without 10% mitigation. Especially when getting hit by multiple targets.

WTT 10% more blocking for 5200 spell/physical resist passive. Will also give 3000 spell resist passive, if demanded.

But...you already have that... Every time you cast Hardened Armor.

Don't be ridiculous.
Spiked Armor itself is useless, people slot it only for the resistances, whereas Nightblades, the supposed "squishy" class, get the freedom to slot any useful shadow ability. And no one uses Hardened Armor, it's Volatile. Hardened got nerfed too hard with the shield nerf.
And yeah, not only are DKs forced into using a trash skill to achieve the same NBs do, we kinda HAVE to slot that trash just to survive. It should be the other way round, if DKs are supposed to be the tanky class.

All classes must slot certain skills to receive certain buffs, this is nothing new. I have to say, this is the first time I've heard Hardened/Volatile Armor called "useless" and "trash," lol. Are we exaggerating a bit?

But since some are so fixated on passives....I'll trade you my Shadow Barrier passive for DKs Battle Roar, straight up. Just think: a NB with an instant fight reset every time I drop a Comet on your head. Looks like I can stack even more damage now on my NB.
But hey, the Hardened Armor really will be useless for you with your new DK shadow barrier. So you can drop it and free up a skill slot (yay).
Do we have a deal, @Lord-Otto ?

kadar

Dr_Talos wrote: »

No-no-no, nigtblades are totaly balanced and fair. Especially major breach to enemy, major ward and major resolve to you in their spammable DPS skill. There is nothing broken in spammable gap-closer without minimal distance that giving you empower. 100% crit chance after shadowy disguise is also totaly balanced. And 4.5% damage nerf of incapacitating strike which stuns, and gives major defile was terrible. They actualy should buff it. It also should snare, add major maim and increase cost of blocking, dodge rolling and using all abilities.

*Ambush also got nerfed*

But yeah, I do wish they would add that minimum distance... You can only get Ambush spammed so many times and not hate the skill.

Which made me realize something last night as I was getting ganked (unsuccesfully) in IC last night. I hate the way people play NBs. I love the class itself, but so many people who play NBs do it in such an annoying way, it's no wonder everyone hates the class...

bowmanz607

Dr_Talos wrote: »

No-no-no, nigtblades are totaly balanced and fair. Especially major breach to enemy, major ward and major resolve to you in their spammable DPS skill. There is nothing broken in spammable gap-closer without minimal distance that giving you empower. 100% crit chance after shadowy disguise is also totaly balanced. And 4.5% damage nerf of incapacitating strike which stuns, and gives major defile was terrible. They actualy should buff it. It also should snare, add major maim and increase cost of blocking, dodge rolling and using all abilities.

Well there are many skills in the game to get major breach. There are many ways to get major resolve. You don't like the skill your class has for nit than go outside your class to get it.

Spammable gap closer? All gap closers can be spammed when a target is running away. If you try to fight a player simply by spamming ambush, then you will lose to any competent player. Not only was damage nerfed, but cost was also increased a bit. With full medium set and an additional 8% from champ and 5% from marksman it still cost just under 3k. So spamming it will get yoh out of resources fast unless you are very high regeneration which means you are also hitting less hard. Plus add inmposions to increase that cost. If you die to ambush spam well that's on you. No competent player will die to that in a straight up fight. If your running, well any gap closer is spammable.

Nb has always had the 100% critical chance since launch and now your complaining about it? Regardless there are plenty of counters to criticize such as shields, impen and champ tree.plus, Nb is supposed to be the burst class. That is their design. Dk has dots. Temp have heals. Not to sure what sorcs are any more though. They need work.

Incap strike is a single target ability and practically speaking the stun doesn't really matter since most people will cc you before using their ult anyway. You want major defile, go use bow or other class abilities such as dark flare. Dawn breaker out shines in cap strike in way more situations.

So just get over yourself and l2p.

Lokey0024

The_Outsider wrote: »

Dr_Talos wrote: »

No-no-no, nigtblades are totaly balanced and fair. Especially major breach to enemy, major ward and major resolve to you in their spammable DPS skill. There is nothing broken in spammable gap-closer without minimal distance that giving you empower. 100% crit chance after shadowy disguise is also totaly balanced. And 4.5% damage nerf of incapacitating strike which stuns, and gives major defile was terrible. They actualy should buff it. It also should snare, add major maim and increase cost of blocking, dodge rolling and using all abilities.

*Ambush also got nerfed*

But yeah, I do wish they would add that minimum distance... You can only get Ambush spammed so many times and not hate the skill.

Which made me realize something last night as I was getting ganked (unsuccesfully) in IC last night. I hate the way people play NBs. I love the class itself, but so many people who play NBs do it in such an annoying way, it's no wonder everyone hates the class...

Now this is the problem i am referring to. The way people build the NB class makes it seem squishy or cant sustain. They can't stack 7 divines/infused and expect to survive a burst combo, or roll 3 weapon dmg enchants and run out of stam/magika (just slot siphoning attacks) then complain they cant maintain resources. This is a L2P issue.

[/quote]But...you already have that... Every time you cast Hardened Armor.[/quote]

Don't be ridiculous.
Spiked Armor itself is useless, people slot it only for the resistances, whereas Nightblades, the supposed "squishy" class, get the freedom to slot any useful shadow ability. And no one uses Hardened Armor, it's Volatile. Hardened got nerfed too hard with the shield nerf.
And yeah, not only are DKs forced into using a trash skill to achieve the same NBs do, we kinda HAVE to slot that trash just to survive. It should be the other way round, if DKs are supposed to be the tanky class.[/quote]

Not really useless, but when you look at the fact it takes up bar space when nbs get it passively, costs magika, and has high cost at that makes it unreasonable for a stam dk to slot it seems more useless.

All classes must slot certain skills to receive certain buffs, this is nothing new. I have to say, this is the first time I've heard Hardened/Volatile Armor called "useless" and "trash," lol. Are we exaggerating a bit?

But since some are so fixated on passives....I'll trade you my Shadow Barrier passive for DKs Battle Roar, straight up. Just think: a NB with an instant fight reset every time I drop a Comet on your head. Looks like I can stack even more damage now on my NB.
But hey, the Hardened Armor really will be useless for you with your new DK shadow barrier. So you can drop it and free up a skill slot (yay).
Do we have a deal, @Lord-Otto ?[/quote]

You're comparing apples and oranges. How about trade the health regen passive (useless) for max health passive (awesome). Now the minor brutality, stam return passive makes more sense to trade for shadow barrier.

Incapacitating strike would give you like 2k return for battle roar btw.

You're dismissing the fact that a "stealthy" class gets a damage midigation passive on use of a completely unrelated to survivability skill. To put it in perspective it would be like dks getting major vitality for using unstable flames in combat. Fair and balanced imo, right?

Witar

Sorc got hit by the nerf hammer this update, nbs are probably next. Nothing to worry about.

bowmanz607

Lokey0024 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Dr_Talos wrote: »

No-no-no, nigtblades are totaly balanced and fair. Especially major breach to enemy, major ward and major resolve to you in their spammable DPS skill. There is nothing broken in spammable gap-closer without minimal distance that giving you empower. 100% crit chance after shadowy disguise is also totaly balanced. And 4.5% damage nerf of incapacitating strike which stuns, and gives major defile was terrible. They actualy should buff it. It also should snare, add major maim and increase cost of blocking, dodge rolling and using all abilities.

*Ambush also got nerfed*

But yeah, I do wish they would add that minimum distance... You can only get Ambush spammed so many times and not hate the skill.

Which made me realize something last night as I was getting ganked (unsuccesfully) in IC last night. I hate the way people play NBs. I love the class itself, but so many people who play NBs do it in such an annoying way, it's no wonder everyone hates the class...

Now this is the problem i am referring to. The way people build the NB class makes it seem squishy or cant sustain. They can't stack 7 divines/infused and expect to survive a burst combo, or roll 3 weapon dmg enchants and run out of stam/magika (just slot siphoning attacks) then complain they cant maintain resources. This is a L2P issue.

But...you already have that... Every time you cast Hardened Armor.[/quote]

Don't be ridiculous.
Spiked Armor itself is useless, people slot it only for the resistances, whereas Nightblades, the supposed "squishy" class, get the freedom to slot any useful shadow ability. And no one uses Hardened Armor, it's Volatile. Hardened got nerfed too hard with the shield nerf.
And yeah, not only are DKs forced into using a trash skill to achieve the same NBs do, we kinda HAVE to slot that trash just to survive. It should be the other way round, if DKs are supposed to be the tanky class.[/quote]

Not really useless, but when you look at the fact it takes up bar space when nbs get it passively, costs magika, and has high cost at that makes it unreasonable for a stam dk to slot it seems more useless.

All classes must slot certain skills to receive certain buffs, this is nothing new. I have to say, this is the first time I've heard Hardened/Volatile Armor called "useless" and "trash," lol. Are we exaggerating a bit?

But since some are so fixated on passives....I'll trade you my Shadow Barrier passive for DKs Battle Roar, straight up. Just think: a NB with an instant fight reset every time I drop a Comet on your head. Looks like I can stack even more damage now on my NB.
But hey, the Hardened Armor really will be useless for you with your new DK shadow barrier. So you can drop it and free up a skill slot (yay).
Do we have a deal, @Lord-Otto ?[/quote]

You're comparing apples and oranges. How about trade the health regen passive (useless) for max health passive (awesome). Now the minor brutality, stam return passive makes more sense to trade for shadow barrier.

Incapacitating strike would give you like 2k return for battle roar btw.

You're dismissing the fact that a "stealthy" class gets a damage midigation passive on use of a completely unrelated to survivability skill. To put it in perspective it would be like dks getting major vitality for using unstable flames in combat. Fair and balanced imo, right?
[/quote]

There is also a way to get the buff outside class in the heavy armor line.

Just because you don't build toward health regen doesn't mean It is useless. A tank build with health regen would take this. If you use trip drink the health regen boost can help to maximize the drink. Max health is nice, but most builds see little additional health.

Lokey0024

@bowmanz607 did you know NB get 15% health regen as well without having to slot anything?
So our takes 25% of my slotted abilities to get what NB has standard.

Bring the other classes up to the optimization of NBs. Cant say this enough.

bowmanz607

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@bowmanz607 did you know NB get 15% health regen as well without having to slot anything?
So our takes 25% of my slotted abilities to get what NB has standard.

Bring the other classes up to the optimization of NBs. Cant say this enough.

Regardless, dk still has some great passives that are unique to the class. I would love some block mitigation. However, that is not how my class was designed. Additionally, I don't know what u are on about. Dk are very competitive in over from multiple aspects. Mad dk is competetive. Stam dk is top dps. Dk has naturally superior tanking ability. Not to menti9n, Stam dk is arguably the top in pvp now. Mag dk is still great in group scenarios and even better this patch in others because of heavy armor and vamp changes.

Mag NB is viable in pve. Stam NB is none of the least competitive just ahead of Stam sorc. Mag NB is solid in pvp and probably falls in the middle of the pack. Stam NB is pretty good in pvp from a burst perspective and is likely beat out by Stam dk.

So please tell me how NB is beating out dk.

Lokey0024

Pvp is what I'm on about. Don't really care about pve, its to easy. All classes have real good passives, no doubt, but what I'm on about is how well nbs stack damage sustain and midigation. Its just so much more well thought out then other classes. The whole package, not just the passives. I could get specific, but if you just try The other classes out you can experience them.

bowmanz607

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Pvp is what I'm on about. Don't really care about pve, its to easy. All classes have real good passives, no doubt, but what I'm on about is how well nbs stack damage sustain and midigation. Its just so much more well thought out then other classes. The whole package, not just the passives. I could get specific, but if you just try The other classes out you can experience them.

I do/have tried the other classes. For Stam I go dk, nb/temp, sorc. For mag I go sorc/nb, temp, dk. That is my experience and opinion.

Lokey0024

On your NB how much impen you run? Do you use shadow mundus? Do you have all weapon enchants? Do you use siphoning strikes? Dw bow or 2h bow? Simple questions but make all the difference

bowmanz607

Lokey0024 wrote: »

On your NB how much impen you run? Do you use shadow mundus? Do you have all weapon enchants? Do you use siphoning strikes? Dw bow or 2h bow? Simple questions but make all the difference

You asking me or op?

If me then,
Never less than 5 piece of impen. Usually sit around 2k critical resist with champ points factored in. Sometimes more. I use every possible build. Sometimes I use attacks sometimes I don't depending on build.

Lokey0024

You. Op was anger rant. Can you NOT heal from half health to full or even a little less then half on The NB? I do every time, also use vigor before a enemy burst combo?

DDuke

Wow, how is this thread a thing? Nightblades are worse than they've ever been, and some people have the audacity to complain about them being "op". Sigh, forums.

So far it's been another patch of "play magplar and wait for ZOS to fix cloak", except cloak is even worse than it was before.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269339/db-bug-cloak-is-broken
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269632/cloak-problem-or-old-man-reaction-time

bowmanz607

Lokey0024 wrote: »

You. Op was anger rant. Can you NOT heal from half health to full or even a little less then half on The NB? I do every time, also use vigor before a enemy burst combo?

Sure, but I can also do the same things on the other classes. Vigor and rally are the source of this which is available to all.

Gothren

DDuke wrote: »

Wow, how is this thread a thing? Nightblades are worse than they've ever been, and some people have the audacity to complain about them being "op". Sigh, forums.

So far it's been another patch of "play magplar and wait for ZOS to fix cloak", except cloak is even worse than it was before.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269339/db-bug-cloak-is-broken
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269632/cloak-problem-or-old-man-reaction-time

Worse than every lol.... yeah thats a laugh. Doubt you have the "audacity" to look around and see the changing demographics and trends happining in the pvp environment right now. There is a large shift in the amount of nightblades playing in cyrodill right now. Hardcore pvp'ers who have played sorc for a majority of their time in cyrodill are now entering pvp with nightblades or another class. So tell me again how your poor wittle class is so underpowered....

Lokey0024

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

You. Op was anger rant. Can you NOT heal from half health to full or even a little less then half on The NB? I do every time, also use vigor before a enemy burst combo?

Sure, but I can also do the same things on the other classes. Vigor and rally are the source of this which is available to all.

This is kinda my point. They nerf crit surge, they nerf wrecking blow, they nerf shields, and buff a secondary attack on stam dks. They keep nerfing stuff and not making The game more enjoyable by buffing other classes to compete. Like giving dks a major defile on an ability dk specific because the dk fights are dragged out battles of attrition, or make sorcs pets blow up on command for burst dmg they lost out on by nerfing inevitable detonation. You know, cool stuff that would make the game more badass instead of more boring.

DDuke

Gothren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Wow, how is this thread a thing? Nightblades are worse than they've ever been, and some people have the audacity to complain about them being "op". Sigh, forums.

So far it's been another patch of "play magplar and wait for ZOS to fix cloak", except cloak is even worse than it was before.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269339/db-bug-cloak-is-broken
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269632/cloak-problem-or-old-man-reaction-time

Worse than every lol.... yeah thats a laugh. Doubt you have the "audacity" to look around and see the changing demographics and trends happining in the pvp environment right now. There is a large shift in the amount of nightblades playing in cyrodill right now. Hardcore pvp'ers who have played sorc for a majority of their time in cyrodill are now entering pvp with nightblades or another class. So tell me again how your poor wittle class is so underpowered....

Popular=/=Strong

Most people in this game have little to no clue on how to create a strong character build, so they flock to the already popular classes. That, and count the fact that "rogue" or "assassin" classes are always the most popular ones in MMORPGs.

Or maybe they just like ganking, because that is all you can do now as a Nightblade. Instagib someone & run for the hills as soon as a single good player shows up.

A Nightblade without functional cloak is like a Sorc without functional Hardened Ward.

Ragnaroek93

I'm sick of this game. Nightblades are pretty much on the bottom of the PvP and there are still people complaining about it. All we have is a *** cloak which works one out of five times when you use it. We don't have any purge or major mending, so what the *** are you complaining about? Stamdk and Manatemps burn Nightblades alive and people still complain about it? Gonna roll a Stamdk in the next days, so at least you guys have a reason to cry.

Gothren

....[/quote]

Most people in this game have little to no clue on how to create a strong character build, so they flock to the already popular classes. That, and count the fact that "rogue" or "assassin" classes are always the most popular ones in MMORPGs.

.[/quote]


thats why i said hardcore pvp'ers. There is a major difference between casuals and hardcore gamers. They care little on favorite classes and more on competition.

DDuke

Gothren wrote: »

....

Most people in this game have little to no clue on how to create a strong character build, so they flock to the already popular classes. That, and count the fact that "rogue" or "assassin" classes are always the most popular ones in MMORPGs.

.

thats why i said hardcore pvp'ers. There is a major difference between casuals and hardcore gamers. They care little on favorite classes and more on competition.

Most hardcore PvPers play a stam DK or a sorc (either kind now, apparently), or they've rerolled templar (like I did). There's very few hardcore PvPers who have actually stayed NB.

Lord-Otto

I would trade Battle Roar for Refreshing Shadows and Siphoning Strikes. Battle Roar is not a free reset to a DK, it's his mandatory resource tool. It is very good, but also needed. And it binds you. It's good on Bats and Standard, but not Dawnbreaker and Leap.
Yes, Spiked Armor IS useless. Return a bit melee damage? LOL! Compare that to Boundless Storm's Major Expedition or Shadow Barrier's... Veiled Strike? Yeah.

Volla

So much flaming on NB... Parry dodge avoid, use the abilities guys....

EsoRecon

delusional children at it again with the nerf nightblade threads...

olsborg

NotPhobia wrote: »

Ok so first off i have to ask , why tf are nbs getting buffs ??? The have the best survivability , dmg and sustain , they have an ultimate that cost 50 and does insane dmg plus heal debuffs you ...but in dark brotherhood that ultimate is also going to STUN and CC you... I dont understand why they keep getting buffs when they need major nerfs , i mean its hard to make a NB build because all their abilities are GOOD , might as well give NBs 7 ability slots on each bar while your at it ZOS , NBs are a serious issue rignt now and they just continue to get better and better , like why is there a class where you can go invisible... not to mention most NBs use shuffle that already immidigates %99.9 of dmg. Soory for the rant , NBs are just ruining my PvP experience and im about to quit with all the buffs that class keeps getting .

So what do you guys think are some nerfs a nb should get ?

ZOS needs to read this , NBs are broke!!!!!!!!

NBs wasnt buffed this patch, actually they were nerfed, dmg on their gapcloser and assassin ultimate was reduced. The "buff" youre talking about was adjusting the stamina morphs to synergise better with champion points, of wich many classes/builds (magicka) has had since champion system was released.