What's with these awful Templars?!

Snape2255

david31741 wrote: »

Never seen you in game - maybe you aren't PC - but I am one of the few solo non-healing magika templars. My build is/was solid. I'm always top 2% when active on a camp. I am 99% solo and don't heal for AP. My main weakness is stamina but unfortunately not much of a solution there.

I'd pay to watch you take a good Sorc or DK with your Magika Templar. Sure, I bag many - but not good ones. NB's and other temps who aren't exploiting are the only thing I find fairly easy (as long as they aren't playing the run you out of stamina game).

I run on PS4 pal, that's probably why. I appreciate what you're saying, particularly with Stamina, however I do feel it can be corrected with a change in strategy etc. Are you running CC pots against Stam DKs, are you running Total Dark in case you come across Magicka Sorcs? Also have you considered running Shuffle? I know that it can drain Stamina and it's unorthodox, but I've been running it recently and have breezed through a lot of Stam DKs due to the dodge you get from it.

I also run Empowering Sweep for the damage reduction on my back bar in case I need it.

david31741

Snape2255 wrote: »

david31741 wrote: »

Never seen you in game - maybe you aren't PC - but I am one of the few solo non-healing magika templars. My build is/was solid. I'm always top 2% when active on a camp. I am 99% solo and don't heal for AP. My main weakness is stamina but unfortunately not much of a solution there.

I'd pay to watch you take a good Sorc or DK with your Magika Templar. Sure, I bag many - but not good ones. NB's and other temps who aren't exploiting are the only thing I find fairly easy (as long as they aren't playing the run you out of stamina game).

I run on PS4 pal, that's probably why. I appreciate what you're saying, particularly with Stamina, however I do feel it can be corrected with a change in strategy etc. Are you running CC pots against Stam DKs, are you running Total Dark in case you come across Magicka Sorcs? Also have you considered running Shuffle? I know that it can drain Stamina and it's unorthodox, but I've been running it recently and have breezed through a lot of Stam DKs due to the dodge you get from it.

I also run Empowering Sweep for the damage reduction on my back bar in case I need it.

Those are good points and I certainly do setup my bar differently if I know I am facing a specific class. But being on PS4 - explains it. Not being PC master race here - just saying......I'm pretty sure the community and competition is much different on PS4 vs PC. A lot of it has to do with the hacks being used in the PC space but also the number of hardcore & skill level of players on the PC is much different than on console.

Too bad ESO doesn't have an online ranking web page where people can see ranking in their campaigns - that would provide some insight.

Snape2255

david31741 wrote: »

Those are good points and I certainly do setup my bar differently if I know I am facing a specific class. But being on PS4 - explains it. Not being PC master race here - just saying......I'm pretty sure the community and competition is much different on PS4 vs PC. A lot of it has to do with the hacks being used in the PC space but also the number of hardcore & skill level of players on the PC is much different than on console.

Too bad ESO doesn't have an online ranking web page where people can see ranking in their campaigns - that would provide some insight.

"Hacks", perhaps. I don't feel that this changes anything though. If anything you have an easier time playing on the PC provided you run a decently spec'd machine. You can react quicker via camera angles and your control setup is easier to use quicker. You can also assign macros if need be and you have an abundance of addons to help improve your gameplay and aide you in combat.

Consoles do not have the above advantages. You can change the sensitivity but it is nowhere near as precise and manageable as a mouse offers. The layout of the controller vs a keyboard ensures that it is easier to play using a keyboard. We do not have access to addons which tell us when our things are available etc. so we have to pay more attention rather than relying on a piece of text popping up on the screen with "Potion ready" or what not. You also cannot assign macros to your controller unless buying a modded controller (which is not allowed).

The player pool on the PC is larger, which means you'd have more "decent" players, but even more "bad" players. You're also implying that there aren't any hardcore or skilled players on the PS4 that can meet the calibre of the PC players. I would wager that that assumption is a false one.

And before you retort with some sort of mundane response like "Exactly what I would expect a console player to reply with." I'll have you know that this is the first and only MMO I've played on a console. I have been a PC player for the past 15 or so years (since Diablo II). I am fully aware of the differences between the platforms, and I am fully aware of the ADVANTAGES that PC players have over console players, when it comes to ease of play.

The only major difference between PC and console players is that console players all run on the same spec'd machines, so it's a matter of internet connection for lag. PC players aren't as privileged in that respect, and whoever spends more money on a better machine generally has the better frame rate.

I do not feel that this is a "platform difference" issue whatsoever, David, I merely feel that this is an issue of build and/or experience fighting that particular build.

Have you considered running a Stam DK or a Magicka Sorc and learning how each and every ability works? Including what is best to counter those abilities. If you play each class and learn them properly, you develop tactics to counter that class regardless of what class you are running. This may help you in the future. If you've already done so, perhaps it's just a matter of lack of experience fighting said class. Try more 1vs1s, and try running skills on your bar to counter classes you are aware that you have the largest issues against (Total Dark vs Magicka Sorcs etc.)

danno8

leepalmer95 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sure templar can just use spears to hit a dodge roller, it's an aoe and it will stun them.

You need to be clairvoyant to hit a single target with Blazing Spear. Especially a fast moving dodge roller.

There an option next patch to instant use an aoe and not get the targeting up, pretty sure it won't be too difficult to gap close then throw it at your feet.

Yah, been using it the last few days.

It's better but it still takes a second to throw and land.

You should try to use the technique you have outlined above. Two possibilitites:

1. You hit with Toppling charge - player is stunned, why would you then throw a spear?
2. You miss with Toppling Charge, try to throw a spear at "your feet", but in the second it takes to land the opponent is already outside the radius (it's around 5-7m).


It just won't work like you think it will in practice.

leepalmer95

danno8 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sure templar can just use spears to hit a dodge roller, it's an aoe and it will stun them.

You need to be clairvoyant to hit a single target with Blazing Spear. Especially a fast moving dodge roller.

There an option next patch to instant use an aoe and not get the targeting up, pretty sure it won't be too difficult to gap close then throw it at your feet.

Yah, been using it the last few days.

It's better but it still takes a second to throw and land.

You should try to use the technique you have outlined above. Two possibilitites:

1. You hit with Toppling charge - player is stunned, why would you then throw a spear?
2. You miss with Toppling Charge, try to throw a spear at "your feet", but in the second it takes to land the opponent is already outside the radius (it's around 5-7m).


It just won't work like you think it will in practice.

I'm not sure how someone gets 8m away from you if your literally on top of them when you cast it.

cazlonb16_ESO

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm not sure how someone gets 8m away from you if your literally on top of them when you cast it.

On the PC it takes 2-3 seconds to land in any realistic scenario during extended prime time. Add sync issues and classes with some actual mobility ( i.e. not Templars or DKs ) can easily get out of the radius most of the time. This is even worse with Dark Flare, the first cast will often take 3-4 seconds and we aren't even talking about very high lag situations here. That's why people keep going on about the class being clunky and slow.

Maybe things are different on PS4.

Snape2255

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm not sure how someone gets 8m away from you if your literally on top of them when you cast it.

Maybe things are different on PS4.

These are server issues, not platform issues. During prime time the frame rate drops significantly and sometimes you cannot even switch bars properly.

On the PC the best you can do is dish out £1,000+ for a decent machine and better connection. On PS4 you just have to hope it passes since all PS4's are built the same.

It's no different, lag is lag regardless of operating system.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Snape2255 wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Do you often dodge roll, break LoS and/or use Shuffle?

If so, spamming an ability that can't be dodged makes sense.

I do, yes, however if any of the remotely decent Templars I play with/against can adjust accordingly, I find it difficult to believe that the vast majority have to resort to the spam of that skill.

The shuffle dodge exploit is the biggest thing to overcome, however it's still doable and if you're playing effectively you can melt people without having to spam Jesus Beam. It just seems that they can only run in zergs and spam that, if they're caught alone they don't know what to do

I personally don't see any issues with them spamming it under those circumstances because you're trying to gain an advantage by dodging their abilities and they're countering that by using one which can't be dodged, rather than wasting resources on spamming something like that doesn't hit and drains their resources anyway.

If they're spamming it when you're not trying to evade or you're in their face then it's different.

P.S. I don't know if you intended to but your penultimate sentence reads like you're admitting you're using the Shuffle exploit.

you dont play templar do you. op is right. if you do the math on the cost of beam to dps ITS SOOOO BAD if they are full health and sooo lol if they have shields up. its strait *** no matter what, your make believe strategy is not reality, its bad.
there is so many options to open you should cast at least two things and CC before beam on a full health target, or your bad(unless they are getting attacked by two others then you gank the kill shot with one beam)

Pomaikai

When you have 1+ other person with you against someone running around a tree, rock, etc, Beams are a nice way of keeping even a full hp opponent lit and visible while you keep your team healed, and then finally finish them off quickly at the end.

leepalmer95

Pomaikai wrote: »

When you have 1+ other person with you against someone running around a tree, rock, etc, Beams are a nice way of keeping even a full hp opponent lit and visible while you keep your team healed, and then finally finish them off quickly at the end.

Basically spam BoL or Spam radiant got it.

Let me guess, s+b and hold block and spam BoL until your 'team' kills the guy attacking you.

Pomaikai

No, I toppling charge in and jab like a mofo too. I keep us purged. I'm tossing around Mutagen. Every strategy has its place. I die a lot, but a lot less often than I used to. But in the end this is war, and in the end it's all about winning.

I have zero desire to wipe to someone with a killer build, great skills, or otherwise and waste 10 minutes catching back up to where we were. So when it comes down to brass tacks I've got no problem at all Beaming someone to death while the rest of the group wails on them. That's not being a poor player. It's just common sense.

PS... No S&B here. Dual wield all the way.

danno8

leepalmer95 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sure templar can just use spears to hit a dodge roller, it's an aoe and it will stun them.

You need to be clairvoyant to hit a single target with Blazing Spear. Especially a fast moving dodge roller.

There an option next patch to instant use an aoe and not get the targeting up, pretty sure it won't be too difficult to gap close then throw it at your feet.

Yah, been using it the last few days.

It's better but it still takes a second to throw and land.

You should try to use the technique you have outlined above. Two possibilitites:

1. You hit with Toppling charge - player is stunned, why would you then throw a spear?
2. You miss with Toppling Charge, try to throw a spear at "your feet", but in the second it takes to land the opponent is already outside the radius (it's around 5-7m).


It just won't work like you think it will in practice.

I'm not sure how someone gets 8m away from you if your literally on top of them when you cast it.

The diameter is something like 8m, so the radius is something like 4m. Assuming you are throwing the spears at your feet, your opponent will be in the center of the circle.

Average walk speed in ESO is around 3m/s. So it is really not hard for a quick class to move 4m away from you in the 1-2 seconds it takes to cast and land Spears.

None of that really matters though. Like I said before, in practice you just won't land the spears with any reliability.

Tormy

Stam dk here, had 3 Templars beaming me earlier. Killed two by interrupting them and then a night blade killed me... Nerf sorcs

Dredlord

Snape2255 wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Congrats on your "sore winner" award, it's not easy to get.

It takes a special kind of person to complain about people you beat in pvp...

I'm the sort of person who prefers to help others excel in their playstyle, whether they are an enemy or not. I've often helped other faction players hone their builds to be able to play better. This sort of playstyle is something that frustrates me because I know that there are so many better options and it irritates me to see people opening with it when they're on their own etc., it is entirely redundant.

Your reply was also redundant. It is unnecessary to post such a comment. We're having a discussion about people using this skill in the WRONG way, not as an execute which is what it's used for.

If it is possible to spread awareness to some of these players about it then it's a win-win. They'll start playing better and we won't have to lay our eyes on something so pointless again.

It takes a special kind of person to try and force his own negativity onto a discussion about an inefficient playstyle and ways to improve on it.

Nice back pedal since your op...

Now instead of all the bitching and moaning in your op you are suddenly here to help ppl?

No amount telling people you are here to help them can change the fact you have proven you are a crybaby whiner up to this point.

Snape2255

Dredlord wrote: »

Nice back pedal since your op...

Now instead of all the bitching and moaning in your op you are suddenly here to help ppl?

No amount telling people you are here to help them can change the fact you have proven you are a crybaby whiner up to this point.

Justice31st

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Honestly I almost have zero respect for most templars anymore because whenever someone brings up the problem (yes it is a problem) with RD, they *** saying they have no useful ults or that they were just "healing bots" before and that somehow justifies RD being the most broken ability in the game. If I sound like a whiney *** I will admit I am right now because I am sick and tired of being hit by ONE RD AT ONLY HALF HEALTH AND BEING DEAD IN 2 SECONDS. IMO if you *** templar are ok with RD being so ridiculously OP, then *** off with not having good ultimates. Try being a stamsorc who has NO op abilities, Stam ultimates other than DB next patch, and getting our primary source of healing *** by Wrobel. And yes, I play both classes, a v15 templar and a v4 stamsorc.

Want some cheese with that whine?

CompactVirus

Blind firing is awesome. Adds a little excitement into the game "to kill or not to kill" that's the question.

In all seriousness most of the time I hit Jesus beam at full health by thinking I'm on back bar or I was aiming for the guy next to you/ hiding in the same zerg as you (yes im accusing you of zerging!) and 100% of the time I'm like am I too lazy to cancel out of this just to get wiped by the 100 little people behind you anyway? Hell yes. If it's 1vx though I still won't cancel because I will probably win anyway. Just giving you a chance

outsideworld76

Pomaikai wrote: »

No, I toppling charge in and jab like a mofo too. I keep us purged.

Toppling charge, punctering sweep like a mofo, it keeps me healed so I don't have to spam BoL. JB to finish. Ooh and weave in light attacks. S+B apply pierce armor for major fracture and block when required.

I love my awfull templar

Lava_Croft

Jesus Beam is Snipe for MagPlars.

outsideworld76

Accept it's way more powerful.

Lava_Croft

outsideworld76 wrote: »

Accept it's way more powerful.

Snipe has a longer range, benefits from stealth, does physical damage and isn't a channel.

AJ_1988

I'm one of those lol. Only because it's the only ranged attack I use apart from shooting star lol. It is effective tho against under geared scrubs especially with vd set