Dropping the scrolls - is this a exploit zenimax?

FiveDinosaur792

I know warping to get you inside a fort is an exploit, but dropping a scroll on purpose for another colour to pick it up immediately on purpose is that an exploit? Using a known exploit can get you banned in any game just like other things like sharing accounts etc, its just something seasoned gamers know you just dont do. I personally concider it cheating, and thats what exploit means to me - cheating. Now guys you have to realise (and I know you do when your in PvP...) its really annoying some players who want to play fair, while other players are boldly stating they do it. Players are dropping scrolls or warping etc on purpose and say hey if they didnt intend to let you do this; you wouldn't be able to do it. What is your official stance on this...is it an exploit? cheating? Can it get you banned if you are reported.....or is it fair play and something we should accept and even do if we want to?

Kind regards,

FiveDinosaur792

brandonv516

Obviously Zenimax wants armies to have spies and traitors in them such as real life. I hate it because there is no loyalty amongst each faction.

Rohamad_Ali

It was addressed a long time ago and unfortunately they said no , it's not an exploit . I'd be happy if they changed their minds . In my "opinion" , it's NOT "a clever use of game mechanics" at all . It's a cheap way to get a scroll . I'd rather lose a campaign then try to get things this way .

myrrrorb14_ESO

Exploit? No. Cheating? Yeah, probably. Falls into the whole espionage category.

FiveDinosaur792

Well I havent heard what an official says about this... I don't really feel this is roleplaying like with the thieves guild but more of an unintentional thing that they didn't expect when designing a game.

Minalan

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Exploit? No. Cheating? Yeah, probably. Falls into the whole espionage category.

If it were 'espionage'...You would be able to murder the traitor.

But you can't. All you can do is grab it back after the other side takes it, and hope the traitor doesn't pick it up again.

Exploit.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Minalan wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Exploit? No. Cheating? Yeah, probably. Falls into the whole espionage category.

If it were 'espionage'...You would be able to murder the traitor.

But you can't. All you can do is grab it back after the other side takes it, and hope the traitor doesn't pick it up again.

Exploit.

But I so want to kill them!

I see why you would say exploit. By definition it fits. But as used in these games it falls more into the cheating category. It's not using corrupted code to do anything. Merely using a game mechanic to cheat or grief players. Definitely not good sportsmanship, but until a traitor system gets implimented what can you do?

FiveDinosaur792

I thought exploit doesn't mean you are necessarily taking advantage of corrupted code, but exploiting a fault in a game. Google says an exploit is by definition..

*In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.*

Toast_STS

My blue group gave red their scrolls back yesterday. Yellow had 3 bars population, red and blue were each fluctuating between 0 and 1. Sometimes you have to form an alliance when you're on buff campaigns trying to make moves. We gave them the scrolls so they wouldn't waste our time trying to get them back from us.

myrrrorb14_ESO

FiveDinosaur792 wrote: »

I thought exploit doesn't mean you are necessarily taking advantage of corrupted code, but exploiting a fault in a game. Google says an exploit is by definition..

*In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.*

Yep. And then wiki says

Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.

So, it's not exactly black and white. To me it's more of the first part (bugs and glitches). Item duping, speed hacks, and stuff like that. To pick up a scroll is intended behavior by the devs.

FiveDinosaur792

But anyone can write on a wiki...

myrrrorb14_ESO

True, anyone can write on wiki. It's mostly accurate as it is reviewed by people for accuracy and uses citations.

Guess where Google goes to provide answers?

...

Wiki

FiveDinosaur792

When I was at Uni we couldn't site Wiki's as they were unreliable sources, they can be corrupted by opinions and we had to say where we got our resources from.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/06/the-funniest-acts-of-wiki_n_522077.html (Huffington post, et al, 2016.)

Now even if this is true, it doesnt answer my question which was directed at a representative to answer. I have heard lots of peoples opinions on whether or not its fair etc, and I have my own. All I want to know is this intentional game design or a exploit...if its intentional, OK fine we can continue knowing this and play like the people who cheat...if not is something done if you report it.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Oh sorry. It was addressed. Perhaps tagging g @ZOS_BrianWheeler can confirm. But this quote may help

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Two Alliances ganging up on another alliance is something that's inherent to the 3 sided aspect of Cyrodiil, or any multi-team game above 2 really. Enemies of enemies forms strange bed-fellows and sometimes this turns out to be the 2 underpopulated/under-scoring alliances, sometimes it's not.

In terms of actual scroll trading where one alliance grabs a scroll and willingly dies/drops it, for another alliance to pick up and deposit, is not an exploit as much as it's campaign politics. Gate jumpers however, as we've discussed on these forums, is an exploit.

failkiwib16_ESO

Players want their friends to become emperors, or gain buffs, or avoid someone specific to become emperor etc. this is just one case of that..

The players doing this are not cheating or exploiting the system, but are exploiting and cheating the faction they betray.

FiveDinosaur792

Hmm OK, thank you I haven't seen this, thank you for tagging @ZOS_BrianWheeler, I'd like that badge too!:) Name dropping badge right?:) Aw well if thats an official post what a shame, I still dont believe it is campaign politics but something that couldnt be fixed. So.......we are playing dirty now huh?:D

Rohamad_Ali

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Oh sorry. It was addressed. Perhaps tagging g @ZOS_BrianWheeler can confirm. But this quote may help

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Two Alliances ganging up on another alliance is something that's inherent to the 3 sided aspect of Cyrodiil, or any multi-team game above 2 really. Enemies of enemies forms strange bed-fellows and sometimes this turns out to be the 2 underpopulated/under-scoring alliances, sometimes it's not.

In terms of actual scroll trading where one alliance grabs a scroll and willingly dies/drops it, for another alliance to pick up and deposit, is not an exploit as much as it's campaign politics. Gate jumpers however, as we've discussed on these forums, is an exploit.

This was what I was talking about . Can you link me the old forum it was posted in please ? I just want to back down memory lane ...

failkiwib16_ESO

@Roehamad_Ali I think it was in this thread: Scroll Swapping - Legal game play? you can scroll down to his post..

ToRelax

I would say wether something is an exploit or not largely depends on the intention. When a mechanic is used to get an advantage over other players by for example stealing the scroll from a keep via a player in the opposing faction, then yes, I'd call it that. But when you use mechanics specifically to help the game as a whole, why not - for example when one faction has all the scrolls and you can take them now, you might decide to give the third faction, who is unable to, their scrolls back in the hopes they'll stay in the campaign and try to defend what they get.

Though, I would rather have a clear ruleset that is actually being enforced. Right now, you aren't exactly discouraged from exploiting anything you find...

Minalan

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Players want their friends to become emperors, or gain buffs, or avoid someone specific to become emperor etc. this is just one case of that..

The players doing this are not cheating or exploiting the system, but are exploiting and cheating the faction they betray.

I'd be perfectly okay with that if you could flag someone a traitor after picking a scroll up from a friendly keep.

As it is, there's no consequence to betraying your own faction. Just 200 people sitting there wishing that they could attack.

Rohamad_Ali

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@Roehamad_Ali I think it was in this thread: Scroll Swapping - Legal game play? you can scroll down to his post..

Thank you very much

Minalan

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Oh sorry. It was addressed. Perhaps tagging g @ZOS_BrianWheeler can confirm. But this quote may help

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Two Alliances ganging up on another alliance is something that's inherent to the 3 sided aspect of Cyrodiil, or any multi-team game above 2 really. Enemies of enemies forms strange bed-fellows and sometimes this turns out to be the 2 underpopulated/under-scoring alliances, sometimes it's not.

In terms of actual scroll trading where one alliance grabs a scroll and willingly dies/drops it, for another alliance to pick up and deposit, is not an exploit as much as it's campaign politics. Gate jumpers however, as we've discussed on these forums, is an exploit.

Last night DC on Azura was Gate camped by both factions. We pushed out, killed every last ganker and took back our home keeps.

It was epic. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

Scroll traitors is something else entirely, it's usually someone with an unleveled alt in the same campaign.

FiveDinosaur792

That is a good point ToRelax, I mean I know of several things wrong with the game and dont use them because of the FEAR OF GOD Sony Online and Blizzard put into using them, its confusing...some exploits are exploits but others aren't because....*shrug*

failkiwib16_ESO

Minalan wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Players want their friends to become emperors, or gain buffs, or avoid someone specific to become emperor etc. this is just one case of that..

The players doing this are not cheating or exploiting the system, but are exploiting and cheating the faction they betray.

I'd be perfectly okay with that if you could flag someone a traitor after picking a scroll up from a friendly keep.

As it is, there's no consequence to betraying your own faction. Just 200 people sitting there wishing that they could attack.

@Minalan yes that is pretty annoying, I agree. The problem with a punishment system is, that it can also be abused.

A few nights ago I ran into a group of DC players, letting AD and EP pass by them, because they wanted to hinder a fellow faction member from gaining emperorship.
...it was around 3am and most AD had gone to bed, my group was already small when I joined them + 3-4 other pvp'ers were playing there, so one of the DC players logged in with an AD char and helped us defending a keep. >.<

If DC faction wasn't in disagreement about who became emperor, they would probably have taken all keeps within 20 minutes.

Rohamad_Ali

All I can suggest OP is if it's 100% legit game play , do it back . Make an alt and take every last one back .

Minalan

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

All I can suggest OP is if it's 100% legit game play , do it back . Make an alt and take every last one back .

Lol. That's awesome.

"We can do this *** all day, or you can stop it now"

Reverb

It's not an exploit, but you can get in trouble for griefing if you and a friend spend 10 minutes trading a scroll for the purpose of message spamming guildmates in a trial. I won't say how I know but you can take my word for it.

Rohamad_Ali

If someone says you are grieving them just copy and paste the Developers direct quote . You have it linked right here . If it's not a game violation then it's not grieving either . Unless a game master pops in and changes the rules , it's fair play . Use it against those that use it against you .

myrrrorb14_ESO

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Oh sorry. It was addressed. Perhaps tagging g @ZOS_BrianWheeler can confirm. But this quote may help

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Two Alliances ganging up on another alliance is something that's inherent to the 3 sided aspect of Cyrodiil, or any multi-team game above 2 really. Enemies of enemies forms strange bed-fellows and sometimes this turns out to be the 2 underpopulated/under-scoring alliances, sometimes it's not.

In terms of actual scroll trading where one alliance grabs a scroll and willingly dies/drops it, for another alliance to pick up and deposit, is not an exploit as much as it's campaign politics. Gate jumpers however, as we've discussed on these forums, is an exploit.

This was what I was talking about . Can you link me the old forum it was posted in please ? I just want to back down memory lane ...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1570540#Comment_1570540

Hope that works. If not I'll try again later

myrrrorb14_ESO

Minalan wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Oh sorry. It was addressed. Perhaps tagging g @ZOS_BrianWheeler can confirm. But this quote may help

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Two Alliances ganging up on another alliance is something that's inherent to the 3 sided aspect of Cyrodiil, or any multi-team game above 2 really. Enemies of enemies forms strange bed-fellows and sometimes this turns out to be the 2 underpopulated/under-scoring alliances, sometimes it's not.

In terms of actual scroll trading where one alliance grabs a scroll and willingly dies/drops it, for another alliance to pick up and deposit, is not an exploit as much as it's campaign politics. Gate jumpers however, as we've discussed on these forums, is an exploit.

Last night DC on Azura was Gate camped by both factions. We pushed out, killed every last ganker and took back our home keeps.

It was epic. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

Scroll traitors is something else entirely, it's usually someone with an unleveled alt in the same campaign.

Did that a few times and it's awesome to pull off! Well done! Go blue!

Igawotch

Players doing that should have a perma title saying Traitor.