1 button wonders killing RvR

Armitas

Whenever macros get brought up there is always the statement that macros don't let you do anything you couldn't already do. The statement is not true because human ability has a limit, whereas macros are timed to fractions of a second. For example in Battlefield you could empty an entire handgun mag instantly in 1 button press by reducing the timing of each button press and release to the minimum limits the server could handle.

People will say well there is an animation time that cannot be overcome. This is also untrue. You can use lag switches to introduce lag that allows you to stack commands that come out at once without waiting for the animation. This is what was occurring with the bolt escape exploit. In some cases Print Screen was being macroed as an internal lag switch that allowed bolt escape to occur back to back without falling in between casts. It was also used to allow certain night blade skills to occur multiple times at once by macroing Print Screen with as many attacks as would fit per lag induction. While you can do this manually when you macro it reaches new levels of broken.

Other people say macros get in the way if you don't want the macro. Also not true, you can switch roll outs with a single button, or you can add the macro to a dedicated button in addition to the regular buttons so that you can use the macro when it's safe without interfering with those skills when you can't use the macro.

In any game I have played macro's could easily overcome human ability. It's not just used for convenience. In lotro I used to macro entire armor swaps to cast a single skill that became stronger by the set, and then macro back to the main set. There is no way anyone can do that in the middle of combat in that game without a macro and it made a huge difference because I had the advantage of every set in the game always at my fingertips.

People don't just use macro's for convenience, they deliberately use it for advantage as well.

vortexman11

I find it quite funny when people toss around "How do you know they aren't using macros" when they have equally as little proof that they are actually using macros.
Anyways, the truth about it is almost anyone with a good enough gaming mouse most has access to creating macros for their own personal use so I HIGHLY doubt that players are making money off of this.

Lokey0024

Armitas wrote: »

Whenever macros get brought up there is always the statement that macros don't let you do anything you couldn't already do. The statement is not true because human ability has a limit, whereas macros are timed to fractions of a second. For example in Battlefield you could empty an entire handgun mag instantly in 1 button press by reducing the timing of each button press and release to the minimum limits the server could handle.

People will say well there is an animation time that cannot be overcome. This is also untrue. You can use lag switches to introduce lag that allows you to stack commands that come out at once without waiting for the animation. This is what was occurring with the bolt escape exploit. In some cases Print Screen was being macroed as an internal lag switch that allowed bolt escape to occur back to back without falling in between casts. It was also used to allow certain night blade skills to occur multiple times at once by macroing Print Screen with as many attacks as would fit per lag induction. While you can do this manually when you macro it reaches new levels of broken.

Other people say macros get in the way if you don't want the macro. Also not true, you can switch roll outs with a single button, or you can add the macro to a dedicated button in addition to the regular buttons so that you can use the macro when it's safe without interfering with those skills when you can't use the macro.

In any game I have played macro's could easily overcome human ability. It's not just used for convenience. In lotro I used to macro entire armor swaps to cast a single skill that became stronger by the set, and then macro back to the main set. There is no way anyone can do that in the middle of combat in that game without a macro and it made a huge difference because I had the advantage of every set in the game always at my fingertips.

People don't just use macro's for convenience, they deliberately use it for advantage as well.

Now your getting it. Im not sure how this is so hard to understand. They already tried a fix with the too many messages in rapid sucession boot but that can be worked around. This happens in alot of games because of unoptimized networking and firewalls delaying unintentionally but the results are the same. I'm not sure if they can fix it, you seen what happend when they moved some scripts server side from client to hinder bots.

Wreuntzylla

raasdal wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Have you played this game? With all the lag and the skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails? Macros are a handicap, I'm not even that great of a player and I can still do better just timing skills correctly and pushing buttons as I see the need. And the idea that someone saying macros are useless implicates them as using macros is... creative, at best.

Well, at least one person has fessed up to at least trying macros. I applaud you for that.

But... are you saying manual play defeats skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails when macros don't? How does that work?

So, look, in an old thread I posed the question of why people chose crit rush over ambush. People posted different reasons but not one of them made sense, and damage parses clearly showed that using ambush in a rotation was significantly more DPS. But EVERYBODY used crit rush, just like the streamers do.

One guy finally came out and said that yeah, it's because ambush has no minimum range and was sucky for macroing. On the other hand, if you macro crit rush, which has a minimum range (3.5m), with a melee skill having a maximum range (e.g., 5m), you consistently stay on target and do damage regardless of lag. Because the server is going to determine the range and apply the first skill in the queue that meets the range requirements.

So, no, manual play apparently pales in comparison to macros in at least some cases.

As far as implications, how many facts do you argue that you could not possibly know the truth of? If you have no vested interest? It's a psychological fact that people protest more strenuously when guilty. You have heard of the saying, 'Thou dost protest too much?" Same thing here. What could possibly motivate a poster to continuously deflect arguments on a topic that has no relevance to them? It can't be reputation. In PvP, salt is an honor badge (see the duo templar video with the salt viewer).

Even though i just posted, i just found this funny part. So someone actually told you, that NB's have been using Crit Rush instead of Ambush because Crit Rush fits better in a Macro? Sorry, but that is beyond ignorant.

There is ONE single reason why NB's will choose Crit Rush over Ambush, which anybody who actually plays this game will know. It is called the Maelstrom Maul/Greatsword etc. Please try to google that, and you will quickly see the reason for ppl using Crit Rush. SPOILER: It has nothing to do with fitting better in a Macro.

I will be silent now, and let the illuminati reign supreme.

You realize the game was released in March of 2013 and Maelstrom weapons were introduced in October 2015. Right?

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed a few non-constructive posts. Please avoid personal attacks.

myrrrorb14_ESO

vamp_emily wrote: »

I am posting about players using the Macros and players out there selling the macros to other players for real $$$$

We may need to do research on a group of "Playing since beta" players. I think some beta players might be losing their mind. Maybe from lack of sleep for 2 year or getting WBed to many times?

Lol, I know I feel like I'm losing my mind sometimes. You may be onto something. Sign me up!

Wreuntzylla

raasdal wrote: »

.

ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

And you know how?

wayfarerx

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

.

ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

And you know how?

Because many of us don't use macros and do quite well. Presumably, if macros were this all-powerful differentiator that you claim, then going into Cyrodiil without them would be a death sentence. Turns out it's not, who knew?

vortexman11

wayfarerx wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

.

ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

And you know how?

Because many of us don't use macros and do quite well. Presumably, if macros were this all-powerful differentiator that you claim, then going into Cyrodiil without them would be a death sentence. Turns out it's not, who knew?

I've heard that macros are more common in PvE than PvP in order to keep up perfect DPS rotations. I don't see how in an environment as unpredictable as Cyrodiil macros could be that useful other than for ganking.

wayfarerx

vortexman11 wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

.

ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

And you know how?

Because many of us don't use macros and do quite well. Presumably, if macros were this all-powerful differentiator that you claim, then going into Cyrodiil without them would be a death sentence. Turns out it's not, who knew?

I've heard that macros are more common in PvE than PvP in order to keep up perfect DPS rotations. I don't see how in an environment as unpredictable as Cyrodiil macros could be that useful other than for ganking.

I guess people trying to get leaderboard times might find them useful, I don't know. Outside of getting the best times I can't understand why anyone would even bother.

As primarily a healer I find most of my time in PvE is spent reacting to the situation and that's not something that lends itself well to macroing.

emily3989

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed a few non-constructive posts. Please avoid personal attacks.

I love it when I see a post with a [Z] next to it, get thinking that someone has actually responded to a player concern, only to see that they simply nerfed the thread itself.

Wreuntzylla

Kas wrote: »

there is an add-on to automatically craft several things in a row. iirc this is against the rules as well. while i first thought this would be pretty-muhc a non-issue i've recently "heard" that if you still use it, you can craft potions way faster than someone manually spannign "r" (or whatever your button is). Now this is a HUGE problem, imho. Not because it matters if people have to waste 2minutes to craft pots or not (my appraoch was to swithc my monitor to TV and blindly spam R while watching something, btw also a sign of an unnessary game mechanic. if there is zero challenge to it, remove it) but because I'm afraid that some of the horror-stories about combat macros were actually true.

If the Add-on API can be used to outperform manual inputs by a large margin, this would be a terrible situation. It's still annoying that some people use marcos to get perfect timings without skill. But they lose flexibility and the ability to react to other circumstances such as lag. However, if said macros actually use the API and outperform the best theretically human input, something's broken as hell

while enforcing the rule against macro usage would be good, removing the possibility to outperform perfect manual controls should be a top priority and go without saying.

raasdal wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Have you played this game? With all the lag and the skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails? Macros are a handicap, I'm not even that great of a player and I can still do better just timing skills correctly and pushing buttons as I see the need. And the idea that someone saying macros are useless implicates them as using macros is... creative, at best.

Well, at least one person has fessed up to at least trying macros. I applaud you for that.

But... are you saying manual play defeats skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails when macros don't? How does that work?

So, look, in an old thread I posed the question of why people chose crit rush over ambush. People posted different reasons but not one of them made sense, and damage parses clearly showed that using ambush in a rotation was significantly more DPS. But EVERYBODY used crit rush, just like the streamers do.

One guy finally came out and said that yeah, it's because ambush has no minimum range and was sucky for macroing. On the other hand, if you macro crit rush, which has a minimum range (3.5m), with a melee skill having a maximum range (e.g., 5m), you consistently stay on target and do damage regardless of lag. Because the server is going to determine the range and apply the first skill in the queue that meets the range requirements.

So, no, manual play apparently pales in comparison to macros in at least some cases.

As far as implications, how many facts do you argue that you could not possibly know the truth of? If you have no vested interest? It's a psychological fact that people protest more strenuously when guilty. You have heard of the saying, 'Thou dost protest too much?" Same thing here. What could possibly motivate a poster to continuously deflect arguments on a topic that has no relevance to them? It can't be reputation. In PvP, salt is an honor badge (see the duo templar video with the salt viewer).

Even though i just posted, i just found this funny part. So someone actually told you, that NB's have been using Crit Rush instead of Ambush because Crit Rush fits better in a Macro? Sorry, but that is beyond ignorant.

There is ONE single reason why NB's will choose Crit Rush over Ambush, which anybody who actually plays this game will know. It is called the Maelstrom Maul/Greatsword etc. Please try to google that, and you will quickly see the reason for ppl using Crit Rush. SPOILER: It has nothing to do with fitting better in a Macro.

I will be silent now, and let the illuminati reign supreme.

haven't played much NB but using crit rush and using two fingers to hit the charge button+some other skill in rapid succession is something i even do manually and very valuable in meele 1v1. especially so with both sides run pots with major expedition and know how to use movement to significantly reduce meele damage doen to it.

i can at least imagine that some NBs prefer crit rush for that reason. Especially those that use macros. But as I said, I've done the exact thing while playing manually. Just move down two fingers. If you have the finger for the charge slightly below the other finger, it can even be used with meele attacks without a max range like sweeps/jabs (but that's incredibly prone to lag). Do this, pop a major expedition pot and try to move a lot with a+s and s+d (i.e. backwards sideways). You'll notice improved performance in 1v1 meele vs meele situations.

Using crit rush in PvP over ambush is indefensible in the current state of the game or really at any time except when impen was nerfed. Even then it was barely defensible.

Setting aide all the other benefits of ambush that are not shared by crit rush, like empower, stealth bonus, immobilize and the like, crit rush is bad. The tooltip says something like 'always causes a critical strike.' But it's not true...you can't crit shields. Further, serious PvPers are wearing 5-7 impen with 60+ points into resistant which makes crit basically good for pug stomping...

Right now it's a total no-brainer because they bugged charge in the same way as the templar gap closer and only teleports are reliable...

Yet NBs crit rushing all over the place and defending the choice in this thread.

Derra

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

there is an add-on to automatically craft several things in a row. iirc this is against the rules as well. while i first thought this would be pretty-muhc a non-issue i've recently "heard" that if you still use it, you can craft potions way faster than someone manually spannign "r" (or whatever your button is). Now this is a HUGE problem, imho. Not because it matters if people have to waste 2minutes to craft pots or not (my appraoch was to swithc my monitor to TV and blindly spam R while watching something, btw also a sign of an unnessary game mechanic. if there is zero challenge to it, remove it) but because I'm afraid that some of the horror-stories about combat macros were actually true.

If the Add-on API can be used to outperform manual inputs by a large margin, this would be a terrible situation. It's still annoying that some people use marcos to get perfect timings without skill. But they lose flexibility and the ability to react to other circumstances such as lag. However, if said macros actually use the API and outperform the best theretically human input, something's broken as hell

while enforcing the rule against macro usage would be good, removing the possibility to outperform perfect manual controls should be a top priority and go without saying.

raasdal wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Have you played this game? With all the lag and the skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails? Macros are a handicap, I'm not even that great of a player and I can still do better just timing skills correctly and pushing buttons as I see the need. And the idea that someone saying macros are useless implicates them as using macros is... creative, at best.

Well, at least one person has fessed up to at least trying macros. I applaud you for that.

But... are you saying manual play defeats skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails when macros don't? How does that work?

So, look, in an old thread I posed the question of why people chose crit rush over ambush. People posted different reasons but not one of them made sense, and damage parses clearly showed that using ambush in a rotation was significantly more DPS. But EVERYBODY used crit rush, just like the streamers do.

One guy finally came out and said that yeah, it's because ambush has no minimum range and was sucky for macroing. On the other hand, if you macro crit rush, which has a minimum range (3.5m), with a melee skill having a maximum range (e.g., 5m), you consistently stay on target and do damage regardless of lag. Because the server is going to determine the range and apply the first skill in the queue that meets the range requirements.

So, no, manual play apparently pales in comparison to macros in at least some cases.

As far as implications, how many facts do you argue that you could not possibly know the truth of? If you have no vested interest? It's a psychological fact that people protest more strenuously when guilty. You have heard of the saying, 'Thou dost protest too much?" Same thing here. What could possibly motivate a poster to continuously deflect arguments on a topic that has no relevance to them? It can't be reputation. In PvP, salt is an honor badge (see the duo templar video with the salt viewer).

Even though i just posted, i just found this funny part. So someone actually told you, that NB's have been using Crit Rush instead of Ambush because Crit Rush fits better in a Macro? Sorry, but that is beyond ignorant.

There is ONE single reason why NB's will choose Crit Rush over Ambush, which anybody who actually plays this game will know. It is called the Maelstrom Maul/Greatsword etc. Please try to google that, and you will quickly see the reason for ppl using Crit Rush. SPOILER: It has nothing to do with fitting better in a Macro.

I will be silent now, and let the illuminati reign supreme.

haven't played much NB but using crit rush and using two fingers to hit the charge button+some other skill in rapid succession is something i even do manually and very valuable in meele 1v1. especially so with both sides run pots with major expedition and know how to use movement to significantly reduce meele damage doen to it.

i can at least imagine that some NBs prefer crit rush for that reason. Especially those that use macros. But as I said, I've done the exact thing while playing manually. Just move down two fingers. If you have the finger for the charge slightly below the other finger, it can even be used with meele attacks without a max range like sweeps/jabs (but that's incredibly prone to lag). Do this, pop a major expedition pot and try to move a lot with a+s and s+d (i.e. backwards sideways). You'll notice improved performance in 1v1 meele vs meele situations.

Using crit rush in PvP over ambush is indefensible in the current state of the game or really at any time except when impen was nerfed. Even then it was barely defensible.

Setting aide all the other benefits of ambush that are not shared by crit rush, like empower, stealth bonus, immobilize and the like, crit rush is bad. The tooltip says something like 'always causes a critical strike.' But it's not true...you can't crit shields. Further, serious PvPers are wearing 5-7 impen with 60+ points into resistant which makes crit basically good for pug stomping...

Right now it's a total no-brainer because they bugged charge in the same way as the templar gap closer and only teleports are reliable...

Yet NBs crit rushing all over the place and defending the choice in this thread.

If you have access to a vMSA 2h weapon with the correct trait using stampede/critrush is the logical consequence.

Wreuntzylla

wayfarerx wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

.

ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

And you know how?

Who are you responding to? You can't get to "all-powerful differentiator that you claim" from the only statement I made with respect to power, which was "so, no, manual play apparently pales in comparison to macros in at least some cases." In your lexicon, some cases = all powerful differentiator?

I'm not saying macros make a large disparity at high level play at all. I'm just tired of people saying macroing doesn't exist like they could possibly know. Because they can't.

Like this one: "It's not macros, it's people who know their skills and have practiced their animation canceling routines. A good player will beat a macro user every time in this game."

Not a chance that this could be proven.

Btw, I have been told that for the same reason crit charge is coupled with a 5m skill, people macro poison injection and magnum shot together, with magnum shot queued first.

Wreuntzylla

Derra wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

there is an add-on to automatically craft several things in a row. iirc this is against the rules as well. while i first thought this would be pretty-muhc a non-issue i've recently "heard" that if you still use it, you can craft potions way faster than someone manually spannign "r" (or whatever your button is). Now this is a HUGE problem, imho. Not because it matters if people have to waste 2minutes to craft pots or not (my appraoch was to swithc my monitor to TV and blindly spam R while watching something, btw also a sign of an unnessary game mechanic. if there is zero challenge to it, remove it) but because I'm afraid that some of the horror-stories about combat macros were actually true.

If the Add-on API can be used to outperform manual inputs by a large margin, this would be a terrible situation. It's still annoying that some people use marcos to get perfect timings without skill. But they lose flexibility and the ability to react to other circumstances such as lag. However, if said macros actually use the API and outperform the best theretically human input, something's broken as hell

while enforcing the rule against macro usage would be good, removing the possibility to outperform perfect manual controls should be a top priority and go without saying.

raasdal wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Have you played this game? With all the lag and the skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails? Macros are a handicap, I'm not even that great of a player and I can still do better just timing skills correctly and pushing buttons as I see the need. And the idea that someone saying macros are useless implicates them as using macros is... creative, at best.

Well, at least one person has fessed up to at least trying macros. I applaud you for that.

But... are you saying manual play defeats skill bar freezes and weapon swap fails when macros don't? How does that work?

So, look, in an old thread I posed the question of why people chose crit rush over ambush. People posted different reasons but not one of them made sense, and damage parses clearly showed that using ambush in a rotation was significantly more DPS. But EVERYBODY used crit rush, just like the streamers do.

One guy finally came out and said that yeah, it's because ambush has no minimum range and was sucky for macroing. On the other hand, if you macro crit rush, which has a minimum range (3.5m), with a melee skill having a maximum range (e.g., 5m), you consistently stay on target and do damage regardless of lag. Because the server is going to determine the range and apply the first skill in the queue that meets the range requirements.

So, no, manual play apparently pales in comparison to macros in at least some cases.

As far as implications, how many facts do you argue that you could not possibly know the truth of? If you have no vested interest? It's a psychological fact that people protest more strenuously when guilty. You have heard of the saying, 'Thou dost protest too much?" Same thing here. What could possibly motivate a poster to continuously deflect arguments on a topic that has no relevance to them? It can't be reputation. In PvP, salt is an honor badge (see the duo templar video with the salt viewer).

Even though i just posted, i just found this funny part. So someone actually told you, that NB's have been using Crit Rush instead of Ambush because Crit Rush fits better in a Macro? Sorry, but that is beyond ignorant.

There is ONE single reason why NB's will choose Crit Rush over Ambush, which anybody who actually plays this game will know. It is called the Maelstrom Maul/Greatsword etc. Please try to google that, and you will quickly see the reason for ppl using Crit Rush. SPOILER: It has nothing to do with fitting better in a Macro.

I will be silent now, and let the illuminati reign supreme.

haven't played much NB but using crit rush and using two fingers to hit the charge button+some other skill in rapid succession is something i even do manually and very valuable in meele 1v1. especially so with both sides run pots with major expedition and know how to use movement to significantly reduce meele damage doen to it.

i can at least imagine that some NBs prefer crit rush for that reason. Especially those that use macros. But as I said, I've done the exact thing while playing manually. Just move down two fingers. If you have the finger for the charge slightly below the other finger, it can even be used with meele attacks without a max range like sweeps/jabs (but that's incredibly prone to lag). Do this, pop a major expedition pot and try to move a lot with a+s and s+d (i.e. backwards sideways). You'll notice improved performance in 1v1 meele vs meele situations.

Using crit rush in PvP over ambush is indefensible in the current state of the game or really at any time except when impen was nerfed. Even then it was barely defensible.

Setting aide all the other benefits of ambush that are not shared by crit rush, like empower, stealth bonus, immobilize and the like, crit rush is bad. The tooltip says something like 'always causes a critical strike.' But it's not true...you can't crit shields. Further, serious PvPers are wearing 5-7 impen with 60+ points into resistant which makes crit basically good for pug stomping...

Right now it's a total no-brainer because they bugged charge in the same way as the templar gap closer and only teleports are reliable...

Yet NBs crit rushing all over the place and defending the choice in this thread.

If you have access to a vMSA 2h weapon with the correct trait using stampede/critrush is the logical consequence.

This is true. I should have made that caveat.

FriedEggSandwich

Armitas wrote: »

Whenever macros get brought up there is always the statement that macros don't let you do anything you couldn't already do. The statement is not true because human ability has a limit, whereas macros are timed to fractions of a second. For example in Battlefield you could empty an entire handgun mag instantly in 1 button press by reducing the timing of each button press and release to the minimum limits the server could handle.

People will say well there is an animation time that cannot be overcome. This is also untrue. You can use lag switches to introduce lag that allows you to stack commands that come out at once without waiting for the animation. This is what was occurring with the bolt escape exploit. In some cases Print Screen was being macroed as an internal lag switch that allowed bolt escape to occur back to back without falling in between casts. It was also used to allow certain night blade skills to occur multiple times at once by macroing Print Screen with as many attacks as would fit per lag induction. While you can do this manually when you macro it reaches new levels of broken.

Other people say macros get in the way if you don't want the macro. Also not true, you can switch roll outs with a single button, or you can add the macro to a dedicated button in addition to the regular buttons so that you can use the macro when it's safe without interfering with those skills when you can't use the macro.

In any game I have played macro's could easily overcome human ability. It's not just used for convenience. In lotro I used to macro entire armor swaps to cast a single skill that became stronger by the set, and then macro back to the main set. There is no way anyone can do that in the middle of combat in that game without a macro and it made a huge difference because I had the advantage of every set in the game always at my fingertips.

People don't just use macro's for convenience, they deliberately use it for advantage as well.

I don't disagree with much of what you say; you are technically correct. However, I and my friends have been whispered with accusations of macroing, and we don't. I have a Razer Naga Chroma with 12 buttons immediately under my thumb and I have knowledge of which actions have priority over others. This lets me perform combos pretty damn quickly. I do think you underestimate what humans are capable of with their hands with practice. Just look at professional pianists or violinists. The fact that I and my friends have been accused proves to me that normal legit play can look like macro use to other players.

Therefore there is no way for us as players to prove whether macros are widespread in eso or not, so discussions like these are pointless for the most part. But I know some of the best players EU and I know they don't macro. So posts like the OPs just appear slightly hysterical to those that have pvp'd since the game launched.

wayfarerx

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

.

ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

And you know how?

Who are you responding to? You can't get to "all-powerful differentiator that you claim" from the only statement I made with respect to power, which was "so, no, manual play apparently pales in comparison to macros in at least some cases." In your lexicon, some cases = all powerful differentiator?

I'm not saying macros make a large disparity at high level play at all. I'm just tired of people saying macroing doesn't exist like they could possibly know. Because they can't.

Like this one: "It's not macros, it's people who know their skills and have practiced their animation canceling routines. A good player will beat a macro user every time in this game."

Not a chance that this could be proven.

Btw, I have been told that for the same reason crit charge is coupled with a 5m skill, people macro poison injection and magnum shot together, with magnum shot queued first.

I was responding to you, as I assumed would be clear from the context. I've said my piece, reread my comments if you need to.

Wreuntzylla

wayfarerx wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

.

ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

And you know how?

Who are you responding to? You can't get to "all-powerful differentiator that you claim" from the only statement I made with respect to power, which was "so, no, manual play apparently pales in comparison to macros in at least some cases." In your lexicon, some cases = all powerful differentiator?

I'm not saying macros make a large disparity at high level play at all. I'm just tired of people saying macroing doesn't exist like they could possibly know. Because they can't.

Like this one: "It's not macros, it's people who know their skills and have practiced their animation canceling routines. A good player will beat a macro user every time in this game."

Not a chance that this could be proven.

Btw, I have been told that for the same reason crit charge is coupled with a 5m skill, people macro poison injection and magnum shot together, with magnum shot queued first.

I was responding to you, as I assumed would be clear from the context. I've said my piece, reread my comments if you need to.

While I reread your comments, perhaps you will lookup "strawman fallacy." It might help you understand the literary technique I used in my response.

Ashtaris

[Deleted]

Ashtaris

[Deleted]

Armitas

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Whenever macros get brought up there is always the statement that macros don't let you do anything you couldn't already do. The statement is not true because human ability has a limit, whereas macros are timed to fractions of a second. For example in Battlefield you could empty an entire handgun mag instantly in 1 button press by reducing the timing of each button press and release to the minimum limits the server could handle.

People will say well there is an animation time that cannot be overcome. This is also untrue. You can use lag switches to introduce lag that allows you to stack commands that come out at once without waiting for the animation. This is what was occurring with the bolt escape exploit. In some cases Print Screen was being macroed as an internal lag switch that allowed bolt escape to occur back to back without falling in between casts. It was also used to allow certain night blade skills to occur multiple times at once by macroing Print Screen with as many attacks as would fit per lag induction. While you can do this manually when you macro it reaches new levels of broken.

Other people say macros get in the way if you don't want the macro. Also not true, you can switch roll outs with a single button, or you can add the macro to a dedicated button in addition to the regular buttons so that you can use the macro when it's safe without interfering with those skills when you can't use the macro.

In any game I have played macro's could easily overcome human ability. It's not just used for convenience. In lotro I used to macro entire armor swaps to cast a single skill that became stronger by the set, and then macro back to the main set. There is no way anyone can do that in the middle of combat in that game without a macro and it made a huge difference because I had the advantage of every set in the game always at my fingertips.

People don't just use macro's for convenience, they deliberately use it for advantage as well.

I don't disagree with much of what you say; you are technically correct. However, I and my friends have been whispered with accusations of macroing, and we don't. I have a Razer Naga Chroma with 12 buttons immediately under my thumb and I have knowledge of which actions have priority over others. This lets me perform combos pretty damn quickly. I do think you underestimate what humans are capable of with their hands with practice. Just look at professional pianists or violinists. The fact that I and my friends have been accused proves to me that normal legit play can look like macro use to other players.

I don't doubt that a persons aptitude can appear to be machine derived. I just mean that a machine will be faster in these cases and thus capable of providing an advantage given the right scenario. We have about 40 conscious moments a second while moving at the speed of our muscles and tendons whereas a computer is responsive to a whole lot more moments per second and travels at the available speed of data.

Abob

Hyssia wrote: »

I've played since release, and I don't think I've ever found a so-called "Macro user". And if I have, they sure as hell died before putting good use to their "macro". Heck, I'm even getting whispers from ppl claiming that I'm a macro user for ani-cancelling them to death.

Are you sure such things exist? It's not hard to set up 2-3-4 skills to land at the same time.

Hmmm, maybe you are a macroer yourself trying to discredit our fight against macroers in order to keep using them... suspicious...

Keldurn

byrom101b16_ESO

Leandor wrote: »

Oh, animation cancelling can stay. Effect cancelling needs to be implemented in addition.

Either you do the animation or you don't get the effect.

AMEN

ColoursYouHave

raasdal wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

You can easily animation cancel without a single macro. It's been a long time since I heard a good PvP player complain about someone macroing, just saying.

Well that's because all the good PVP players are clearly macroing.

Just like anybody who thinks that macroing would be less effective then being even half-decent at the game. Or anybody who thinks that macroing isn't commonly used in the game.

Please understand that there is no such thing as "macro" exploiting in this game. ANYTHING you can do with a macro in this game, I CAN DO BETTER without the Macro. So for any skilled gamer there is 0 incentive to use a Macro. For reference, see the other posts about how Macros react in laggy situations - which is what Cyrodiil is 90% of the time.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

You can easily animation cancel without a single macro. It's been a long time since I heard a good PvP player complain about someone macroing, just saying.

Well that's because all the good PVP players are clearly macroing.

Just like anybody who thinks that macroing would be less effective then being even half-decent at the game. Or anybody who thinks that macroing isn't commonly used in the game.

Go make a macro and fight some of the really good players and see what happens.

You guys need a macro that will allow you to detect sarcasm better.

imredneckson

Tess_Phyreforge wrote: »

I am a Vet member of ESO and a veteran gamer, I started playing Ulitma Online at release in 1997.
So I have experience in all types of PvP and RvR games in my history but what I am seeing as of late in ESO RvR is appalling.
Players being able to manipulate game mechanics with the use of macros is reeking havoc in RvR.

I am also a member of a very large gaming community and I have seen around 2000 members come through our ESO guild since launch, a small amount of that count has stayed, but I am worried most will leave if things don't change.
Most our members Sub and play this game for 4 to 8 hours a day, myself I play 6 to 10 hours a day.

I have talked to a few members and we all agree....
Skills make or break your character in RvR, finding the right build that works for your play style and be competitive is key.

ESO has allowed animation canceling , right?

So after months and being frustrated because Dev's don't see the big picture here...
You will lose your player base if nothing is done about the 1 button wonder macro that lets a player cast 3 to 4 even 5 skill with a tap of 1 button
This macro cast multiple skills and removing the animation and cast timer for each skill.

Game mechanics are game mechanics, The Developers of the game set up the game to have cast times and you've allowed animation canceling in game, that should ONLY cancel the animation, not remove the timer to cast skill.

A player has to know how to animation cancel and new players to RvR have no clue how to do it or what it even is.
I have never seen a video by a Dev member of a step by step how its done,
I have seen a few of the players websites how they do it but the video is very sketchy on how its done.

Players are manipulating the animation canceling to remove cast times with 1 button macros.
This is an Issue and should not be used, If it's a macro set in place by the Developers and works within the boundaries of the game mechanics, then it's fine to use.

There are reports of some player selling these macro build online and telling their buyers to keep it hush hush.
If I knew these website links I would report them in a heartbeat!
If I do run across any website selling ESO macros, gold or items I will report them!
Players like this are ruining ESO
I don't approve of players selling game items/gold or how to win macro builds online for real money.

NO player should benefit from ESO CEO, Developers and Team members hard work building us a beautiful game.
I pay 6 months game time, every 6 months since the release.
I fear If things don't look up for the future of RvR in ESO I can see players moving on to a game like Camelot Unchained to fill their RvR gaming habits.

Most of the gamers out there have a keyboard that has the ability to run or make macros, if your going to allow player to use these macros then why not have premade class macro builds added to the game options?

or better yet...

Remove animation canceling and cast timers from the game, this will solve the issue!
Then all players will be on the same playing field in RvR,
It will be up to the players to pick and choose the skills from their learned skill line to be competitive in RVR without the worrier of cast timers and animation canceling.

Let the Flaming begin! I don't care!
I am an Old school gamer and proud of it !!!!!!!!!

Enjoy

http://orig05.deviantart.net/7ecd/f/2016/013/b/f/you_***_kill_by_eso_picture-d9nrz0q.png
http://orig00.deviantart.net/5ba3/f/2016/115/a/0/jesus_beam_ftw____by_eso_picture-da09ecj.png

No macros used and they're not needed

as for a step by step video on how to animation cancel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7mbaNHtt6I
Edit: He also has a video on how to animation cancel using a bow

Alcast

Macros with that lag? Good luck

kuro-dono

anyone ever tried blackwidow keyboard with spell and block macroed into its function button? all i ever do is press that button to cast minimum of 50% faster skill which means more dmg, which means things die faster. just 2 things. skill and block.

Obviously some clever folks do even better, but thats enough for me to proof how full of *** some folks are about animation cancelling and macroing.

outsideworld76

1 button to rule them all!

wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow.

This game was designed to be a one button spamfest, just press that button and get AP.

myrrrorb14_ESO

kuro-dono wrote: »

anyone ever tried blackwidow keyboard with spell and block macroed into its function button? all i ever do is press that button to cast minimum of 50% faster skill which means more dmg, which means things die faster. just 2 things. skill and block.

Obviously some clever folks do even better, but thats enough for me to proof how full of *** some folks are about animation cancelling and macroing.

That's pretty much the only combination I can think of that would make sense, but even that simple one is subject to lag messing it up. And Cyrodiil is ridiculous with lag. And of course there is the fact that people can just muscle memory those combinations.

umagon

kuro-dono wrote: »

anyone ever tried blackwidow keyboard with spell and block macroed into its function button? all i ever do is press that button to cast minimum of 50% faster skill which means more dmg, which means things die faster. just 2 things. skill and block.

Obviously some clever folks do even better, but thats enough for me to proof how full of *** some folks are about animation cancelling and macroing.

It can be done easily with a razer mouse/keyboard I own both; it takes about a minute to setup. One has to adjust the delay for each skill but done right it can clip most or all of the animation for a skill. I don't use it personally because its really cheesy. But I do like when people say it cant be done when it very well can be. It gets more interesting when someone starts macroing more that one skill with block weaves it makes fallacy macros easy to do. Those are macros where if one skill doesn't work the other will depending on the situation. One button can charge, attack, break free for example, or clip snipes the list goes on.The advantage comes mainly from the fact that people cant see the animation so they will get hit 2+ things in about a second giving them zero time to react.