Exploiters selling their cheap mats and getting rich

Manpoints

[/quote] I think this would have made perfect sense. Don't ban, just take the stuff. [/quote]

I dont understand how that is so unreasonable, if it is really a matter of manpower and ZOS just cbf with policing like some Sierra Leone type country then let us know at least.

Beardimus

Wow, this thread spirals on.... I mean seriously guys. It's great you are so passionate about a game you love (although I'm not sure you really do from half the comments) but come on, let it go.

What does hurt the game is threads like this kicking off all the time about how broke the game is. I mean, if you feel that strongly don't play it, it's just a game, real life is the thing to worry about. Not some virtual money some guys may or may not have that may or may not make your virtual stack of goods worth more or less or not!!!!

ZOS have their reasons. They have the data. They are not dumb. Think about it what can they do? Either way it's damned if they do damned if they don't. They also monitor the economy and If it truely was going to break the game they could do something about that too. I'd prefer the focus on more important things.

All ive seen is Gold mat prices going up gradually over the last six months. and now I've seen some tempers at more reasonable prices if you buy bulk BUT that's a small sample of traders. Someone already posted from PC the trend over last three months and there's been no impact. Until anyone has consistent estate wide sales data it's all just hearsay.

Stop moaning and scaremongering, deal with it or crack on and play another game. Most of the comments here hide behind the fact it's 'bad for the game' but really i think most people are just greedy for themselves and gutted they missed out, ironic.

Q - if ZOS offered you 100's of Gold mats compensation to balance it out would you take it? Or say nope, no thanks sir, that might break the game?.

Ps not all the people that disagree with you are looting exploiters some just don't see the issue / fuss.

Turelus

Beardimus wrote: »

Q - if ZOS offered you 100's of Gold mats compensation to balance it out would you take it? Or say nope, no thanks sir, that might break the game?.

Ps not all the people that disagree with you are looting exploiters some just don't see the issue / fuss.

I would say no. You don't reward players for good behaviour, you punish them for bad behaviour.

The game and the economy will be fine if just slightly altered, that;s not my (or some others) main beef here though. The beef is that people cheated and ZOS didn't take actions to remove their gains. Which only goes to enforce the fact that cheating is the best way to play this game.

Let's make a terrible analogy.

There is a company that scams sweet old dears out of their pension money, the company over the course of their time before caught makes millions. They get caught and their business is closed, their bank accounts seized for a month.

However after that they're given the accounts back and left alone. The ill gotten millions are not taken from them, and they have no restrictions about starting up a new company and doing it all again.

They cheat the system then get to enjoy their rewards for the rest of their lives with no negative effects.

That's basically what happened here, and ZOS as always decide that hiding and ignoring the issue until it all blows over is a better idea than open communication with their playerbase. There was a thread asking for a direct response from ZOS regarding what's happening and it was locked faster than the latest EU PvP community thread.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

just chiming in here, recognize i have not read the backlog of posts

ok here goes

I recently checked the guild stores of several area's, having expected a price drop in the wax, i know im scum whatever
problem is, no price drop, everything is mostly the same price before the exploit

Is that the problem people are having? Them getting rich off the fact the supply side of the 'supply and demand' trope is now overflowing but the prices didnt drop?

Yes i can see the rage this would cause. Honestly id have not cared if the prices had dropped, but they didnt.

the basis of the 'supply and demand' economy is that when the supply increases the prices drop, right?

Now ill never call for a ban on a exploiter, if you must punish it, find a way to hit their characters wallets, they did after all pay you money where it counts ((B2P Subs, etc etc)) so continue to let them play the game, but say take 50% of all the gold they have, or if you have a way of tracking it, just take all the gold they have made since the exploit was found.

Look, this whole issue doesnt really effect me, punish or dont, im in tamriel for the roleplay, the scenery, im just chiming in on what i think on the whole situation were i in shoes of those that are outraged.

Genomic

daemonios wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

Keep in mind those 'fluff people' bring in the cash. Without them ZOS would have even less money in the pool.

Does that really mean the game's one and only purpose should be fluff now?:/

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

WTS potent nirn crux 1k each

With its current nerf coming up in DB you couldnt pay me to waste a invintory spot holding o

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

And I honestly think communication would go a LONG way. Not just on this issue, on all of them. They clearly read the forums but only "z" response you ever get is from a mod telling you to behave. It's sometimes hard to behave when you're feeling ultimately ignored.

But we have to be honest with ourselves and realize that's whats bringing in the money right now. They are a company after all and that's there number one goal. But at the same time it shouldn't be their only goal. I think we should be calling them out on this stuff, but instead we(the forums in general, not you and i) attack each other, instead of blaming the source of the problem and trying to get changes made were it matters. Most of the times we are our own worst enemies on these forums. =(

I understand that. But I honestly think they'll lose more in the long run. Because if all they wanna do is focus on quick cash-grabs in Crown Store now and do nothing to encourage(and actually do things to discourage) people from keeping playing their game...well I find that sad.

If "grab the money now and to hell with everything else" is the model ZOS chose though then yeah, not much we can do about it. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it though...or keep playing this game.

Doenst mater if we as long time supporters or end game players are upset. Quick cash grabs are how B2P games stay afloat. The influx of new players is going really well for ZoS right now, and that's who is going to get the most attention.

And you're right, we shouldn't be happy about it, and mostly cause we had the promise from this company even before the game went live that a "subscription based model is the only way to bring the best product to our players". This is the ONLY reason i even bought the game. After countless other games i played that were F2P or B2P failed me for the same reasons we are now seeing in this game, i was so happy to finally see another Sub based game announced. I felt so betrayed when they announced it was switching to a B2P model cause i knew right then the game would change and no longer cater to its loyal players. =(

Unfortunately looks like that's true...I must say I didn't realize what was so awful about b2p at first, it's my first MMO and while I did feel kind of wary about it, it was mostly because they broke a promise over it(not the last time they did that...) and because it kind of felt like folks have been paying to beta test the game for consoles(no offence to console people)...now I'm beginning to see why people were so opposed to the idea though, seems like ZOS has 0 incentive to go back and fix things now that it's literally more profitable for them(in the short run at least, and doesn't look like they care for much else) to introduce a new half naked dress
Sad but maybe it's time to go back to adventure/puzzle games for me lol.

It has ALWAYS been the case with microtransactions. I've seen it happen in multiple games that went from subscription to F2P/B2P/whatever euphemism you wish to call it. This is why I've always reacted VERY negatively to the crown store. This is why I refuse to validate the model and am sitting on 30k+ crowns from my subscription, having spent not a single one. Money-wise, microtransactions make all the sense. In terms of game design/player satisfaction, though, I cannot see a single positive aspect.

The problem with F2P/B2P is that there is disproportionate focus on the minority of players who spend big. With RNG and 'limited edition' cash shop items, the people who spend big are often OCD and/or addictive types. But RNG and items are also inherently valueless and cheap to manipulate, as RNG stats can be manipulated by changing a multiplier on a line of code and many 'unique' items can be just re-skinned old resources. Thus the dev's focus invariably shifts to manipulating gameplay and churning out cash shop items, to extract as much money as possible from these 'whales' (which is a gambling term, by the way, coined by the casino industry for the addicts who spent big).

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed an inflammatory post. Remember to keep your posts constructive.

mtwiggz

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed an inflammatory post. Remember to keep your posts constructive.

Perhaps the inflammatory post was constructive. I don't think ya'll realize how poorly you handled this situation. Continuing to handle it poorly as well. Pretending like it never happened with no response. I'll tell you what though, we'll never forget. Just like the Chalamo of 2015. The blood is forever imbedded in those walls.

anitajoneb17_ESO

mtwiggz wrote: »

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed an inflammatory post. Remember to keep your posts constructive.

Perhaps the inflammatory post was constructive. I don't think ya'll realize how poorly you handled this situation. Continuing to handle it poorly as well. Pretending like it never happened with no response. I'll tell you what though, we'll never forget. Just like the Chalamo of 2015. The blood is forever imbedded in those walls.

There's a level of "lack of intelligence" that is so obvious that ignoring it is the very clever way to go and handle it. That's the way ZOS has chosen and it's fine by me.

lathbury

damn it I love inflammatory posts and I missed it. I think I have made my position clear on this they need to remove the gold and matts.

Korah_Eaglecry

lathbury wrote: »

damn it I love inflammatory posts and I missed it. I think I have made my position clear on this they need to remove the gold and matts.

Probably wasnt even that "inflammatory". ZOS seems to love to go after the more convoluted comments while leaving comments that blatantly broke the TOS.

DaveMoeDee

HxC wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

7- At midnight the script goes on and kick a lot of players from the game even those without the banker assistant.

Just to be clear. It is not guaranteed that the banker was required to do this, under every case where the exploit was possible. It is possible that it was discovered because of the banker, but the exploit has been in the game for a very long time because no one thought to do it. It is also possible that someone did think to do it, has been doing it for months, and the banker was a $40 "quality of life improvement" for them.

Yes, but a lot of players think you absolutely need the assistant to exploit. Secondly if the exploit was in game since more than one year, why ZOS have done nothing ? It's ZOS fault if they let a bug in their game more than one year and i don't think a lot of people were exploiting it. The real exploitation start since assistant banker is in game not before, i don't think a lot of player without the assistant was exploiting it.
In wrothgar for example if you need to go back to the bank each time i don't think it was better than farming normal node, if you can activate each map in one travel then go back to bank then gather all map, it was interesting .

Good point. Top level equipment mats are so common in Wrothgar and in HB that it is is almost as good to just wander around zones than to exploit surveys by going back to the actual bank. Especially for nodes that aren't particularly close to wayshrines.

DaveMoeDee

Manpoints wrote: »

To those saying we should drop it - I get it bros, you got a bunch of yellows and gold, you dont wanna lose your stuff, we hear you. (I see people in here sitting on THOUSANDS of mats :P You know I know who you are)

To those saying its positive or doesn't affect other players, for those that are now competing against cheaters - IT DOES make it more difficult to move product when the market is saturated, not just in guild stores, but people selling hundreds of yellow mats in zone.

To those saying the zealous people in here are just jelly and would do it if they could? Maybe they will? Maybe 80% of the vet population will, how will you move your exploited mats then? Drop mats to 1k and saturate the game with gold. GG.

To ZOS, you guys need to step up here because any inaction will encourage more exploitation later and you'll then have to address punishment of a much larger portion of the community than the rather limited amount this time around.

*EDIT* Best option I feel tossed out so far, is a complete removal of all profits/mats gathered through these shenanigans.

I really don't care about people's inability to sell things. Inflation is what I don't want to see. Inflation isn't happening.

The reality is that cheaper yellow/gold mats will mean that more people will improve their gear, taking those mats out of the economy. Many people stop at purple because of the high cost of yellow mats.

While removal of the mats would have been great, stop beating a dead horse. It isn't going to happen because it is too difficult to trace the events and would require dedicating resource over many days to make sure they have properly identified the mats. Even if they identified mats from a snapshot in time, those mats have made their way through the game since then. Some were used to refine armor. Some were sold. Some were transferred other ways. While any of that is investigated, more transactions are taking place.

Turelus

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

To those saying we should drop it - I get it bros, you got a bunch of yellows and gold, you dont wanna lose your stuff, we hear you. (I see people in here sitting on THOUSANDS of mats :P You know I know who you are)

To those saying its positive or doesn't affect other players, for those that are now competing against cheaters - IT DOES make it more difficult to move product when the market is saturated, not just in guild stores, but people selling hundreds of yellow mats in zone.

To those saying the zealous people in here are just jelly and would do it if they could? Maybe they will? Maybe 80% of the vet population will, how will you move your exploited mats then? Drop mats to 1k and saturate the game with gold. GG.

To ZOS, you guys need to step up here because any inaction will encourage more exploitation later and you'll then have to address punishment of a much larger portion of the community than the rather limited amount this time around.

*EDIT* Best option I feel tossed out so far, is a complete removal of all profits/mats gathered through these shenanigans.

I really don't care about people's inability to sell things. Inflation is what I don't want to see. Inflation isn't happening.

The reality is that cheaper yellow/gold mats will mean that more people will improve their gear, taking those mats out of the economy. Many people stop at purple because of the high cost of yellow mats.

While removal of the mats would have been great, stop beating a dead horse. It isn't going to happen because it is too difficult to trace the events and would require dedicating resource over many days to make sure they have properly identified the mats. Even if they identified mats from a snapshot in time, those mats have made their way through the game since then. Some were used to refine armor. Some were sold. Some were transferred other ways. While any of that is investigated, more transactions are taking place.

Sure the materials that were spread may not be able to removed from the game, but why were the ones on the banned accounts not removed? That's what's getting at people here.

They literally just banned people for 72 hours but let them keep all the rewards of cheating. Making it more advantages to cheat in this game than not to. People have already been saying in the communities I am part of that next exploit they'll just get involved because why not?

I am not asking for ZOS to change the actions they took on this case, however I would like to hear from them about how they'll handle future cases. If tracking materials or knowing who was and wasn't an exploiter is such an issue what are they doing to rectify those issues?

Again the points which bug me and many others are.

• Why did an exploit reported long before it hit the forums not get fixed (and fixed in less than 24 hours) until it was made public knowledge on the forums?
• What's the real reason behind not taking action vs peoples items on the accounts be that materials or gold?
• Why is the ZOS stance on cheating to be so tight lipped where's other MMO developers are open about it?
• What changes are being made to make sure this doesn't happen again?
• What are ZOS feelings on the cheating culture which ESO has developed, where's abusing game bugs (minor or major) has become the meta and "best" way to play the game?

Glamdring

Cheaters and Exploiters do they exist? Welcome to the real Life in ESO.

Vercingetorix

Frankly, I don't see the issue at all. It drives the prices down for everyone. The people complaining are the ones who are butthurt about not being able to get away with extorting the playerbase. Cry me a river. ZoS has better, REAL issues in this game to address than help you monopolize a market. My friends and I took full advantage of the price drops - why pay more when you can pay less? They spent time to get those mats (at a faster rate, but they still did so over time) and now the prices drop as a result. This is no different from the pig farm in DC last year - people whined about that too and nothing was done about it because ZoS realized it really had no impact on the game.

A vast majority of people who farm these "exploits" are still playing, LOL. There's no harm to the playerbase population as people just wanted to streamline getting to the endgame gear so they could do all the high-end content with their guildmates. If these exploits were a threat to ZoS' product and its shelf life, you would see player populations plummet after these exploits, but you DON'T. Clearly, the exploit is only a "threat" to those who do nothing but craft and sell overpriced gear. Exploits like these are a good "kick in the nuts" to the economy (and those who would exploit it) to keep it from getting too out of hand for the common folk.

Turelus

I'll try and break this down in a constructive way for you @Vercingetorix

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Frankly, I don't see the issue at all. It drives the prices down for everyone.

This may or may not be true depending on what happened with the other materials farmed.
Whilst players who farmed gold tempers are likely to sell these or horde and use for themselves, the waste product materials could have been vendor trashed for raw gold rather than selling to players and thus injecting more money into the economy. This would actually cause the opposite of what you believe where prices would go up to counter the increased gold floating around.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

The people complaining are the ones who are butthurt about not being able to get away with extorting the playerbase. Cry me a river. ZoS has better, REAL issues in this game to address than help you monopolize a market.

No. The players are angry that they accepted a TOS/EULA to play a game on a fair playing field which ZOS have no interest in maintaining. Whilst this issue may not have effected you or your friend in a negative way it does effect others gameplay.
There are players who invest hours farming materials to make money and they're now suffering less rewards for their invested time because some people were allowed a free pass at cheating.

Additionally just because this exploit yielded great rewards for you does this mean you're fine with any exploit in the game that yields great rewards for others but at a penalty to you?

Should someone find a way in PvP to flip a keep without even entering it whilst you need to break the walls and stand on capture flags. This would be fine right, "They spent time to get those mats keeps(at a faster rate, but they still did so over time)"

Of course this is an unrealistic analogy, but where do we draw the line on exploiting and what is acceptable behaviour within this game. It's obvious ZOS are not happy people exploited this bug otherwise they would not have banned people over it.

However a temp ban without removing the ill gotten gains doesn't actually penalise the players who cheat. They still gained everything from abusing something the developers did not intend.

Frenkthevile

Marketplace is easy to exploit, there is NO MINIMUM PRICE for anything.

Reevster

Just noticed Sanded ruby ash selling for less then Sanded night wood PC/NA , like 6 gold each or so, almost vendor trash now.... thanks exploiters, job well done...

Turelus

You know honestly, I really can't be bothered to fight this fight any more.

I'm saddened and left jaded over this whole thing especially with ZOS' refusal to enforce their own games ToS.

I guess in the end their "ignore it and it goes away" strategy does work, however I really do hope ZOS have something in place for the next time this happens. I am not sure they realise just how much the actions and publicity of this issue has only enforced the "cheat to win, nothing bad will happen" mentality of the player base.

Any way, that's my last comment here. Even if you quote and trigger me I won't be back.

Manpoints

Still lots of people selling mats by the thousands, its not going to go away for quite a while.


Has ZOS offered any response to whether the mats will be kept?

daemonios

Manpoints wrote: »

Still lots of people selling mats by the thousands, its not going to go away for quite a while.


Has ZOS offered any response to whether the mats will be kept?

I think the lack of action is their response.

So remember kids, exploit early, exploit often, try not to get caught, but if you do it's OK, you just get to have 3 days off then proceed as if nothing ever happened. /s

InfaM

Funny to see that the only answer from ZOS on such a hot topic is "we're here to moderate your post"

FearlessOne_2014

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It seems to me that their method of tracking this exploit was not infallible (by their own admission) so they may be hesitant to send down harsher punishment.

It will be funny if, when the next exploit rolls around, it's something easy to track, everybody bandwagons onto it because of this response, and there end up being more serious repercussions.

That'll be a fun time to be on the forums.

But brain dead people have no brains to think in this way. Because this is critical thinking. I'll pop out my popcorn for that moment. my guess atleast one thousand accounts perma-banned. But then again since when has ZOS ever taken back the ill gotten gains of the questionable community, look at CP cap, look at hugely nerfed Vet Rank Zone content XPs, look at dungeon and delves XP now, and look at RNG on nodes. Most of the time in ESO if I didn't know any better i'd go as so far as to say ZOS rewards their "cheaters" and punishes their legitimate player base down the road for things that cheaters/exploiters do or done, it's just a basic thing of ESO that a lot of us got used to.

DRXHarbinger

Reevster wrote: »

Just noticed Sanded ruby ash selling for less then Sanded night wood PC/NA , like 6 gold each or so, almost vendor trash now.... thanks exploiters, job well done...

Been useless for ages now. Voidstone and cloth are where the gold is at now. My writs are proving very expensive if they don't drop fragments or gold mats. ZOS seems to have rolled out a stealth nerf again on drop rates to spite everyone now too. Refined and I kid you not, 720 rubedite, 640 silk and 400 woods and got 1 purple mastic and that's it, I kid you not. Never have I ever had a drop rate that bad.

sirrmattus

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Rubedite ingots for vet 16 armor were for sale 25 for 2.6K now you can find 200 Rubedite ingots for 3k or less ive seen same person selling many stacks of 200 for that price .....

That has nothing to do with exploiting

Elsonso

.

sirrmattus wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Rubedite ingots for vet 16 armor were for sale 25 for 2.6K now you can find 200 Rubedite ingots for 3k or less ive seen same person selling many stacks of 200 for that price .....

That has nothing to do with exploiting

You cannot say that.

istateres

lordrichter wrote: »

.

sirrmattus wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Rubedite ingots for vet 16 armor were for sale 25 for 2.6K now you can find 200 Rubedite ingots for 3k or less ive seen same person selling many stacks of 200 for that price .....

That has nothing to do with exploiting

You cannot say that.

Well clearly they can and did.

Articulemort

There has practically always been some exploit available in this game, from the pig farm early on to double pulling fish when wrothgar come out. Everything always goes back to normal a few weeks after the exploit gets fixed, before a new one is found. It has literally just become a part of the game now. Just ride it out. Also, people selling thousands of mats, doesn't necessarily mean they exploit, I have literal thousands of mats, I just buy them mad cheap to make a profit off. On numerous occasions, ive purchased a full stack at npc price even before this exploit was out.

Honestly, I don't see a reason to punish the explotiers, and frankly I've done most of them(except the one referenced here, I didn't know about it, if I had known I would have done it for sure.) You don't like an exploit, report it to ZOS and get your friends to do the same so they fix it faster.
You seem to make it that we, the people who used exploits are to blame, however you need to look higher up. Don't blame us for something the developers caused and didn't fix in a timely manner.
Also, @DRXHarbinger, that's just the rng, you clearly forgot to pray to rngesus before refining. I usually get a purple every 40 to 50 unrefined mat. Sometimes I might refine 200 and not get anything though, just the luck of the draw.

Xylphan

Articulemort wrote: »

...You seem to make it that we, the people who used exploits are to blame, however you need to look higher up. Don't blame us for something the developers caused and didn't fix in a timely manner...

Ah, the standard sociopathic response. "It's not my fault. She was asking for it. She wouldn't bring me a sammich!"

So, do you always blame the victim or is that just a game thing you do?

Edited to remove profanity

Brrrofski

Any left on xbox eu?

I need to do two toons fully gold and I only got half a mil. Any saving is welcomed