Exploiters selling their cheap mats and getting rich

Volkodav

Just an after note:
Man,I just like to play the game.
It isnt nice to exploit things,as I said in earlier comments,but it doesnt effect me in such a way as to make me go nutz over it as many here seem to do.
I hunt up my own mats,and gain my gold from quests and selling certain things in my guild stores. If they sell,fine.If not,I lower the price until they do sell.Beyond that,I dont pull my hair out over it.And,..if I need to buy something,I go and find it.If it is too expensive,I walk away.i dont get mad cos it is more than I want to pay.
Having said that,I am not a competitive player.As I said,I just like to play the game.
If this was real life,it still wouldnt effect me unless I bought and sold stocks,etc,..which I wouldnt.
Again,guys,it's just a game.Why get so wrecked over it all.

Inklings

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

WTS potent nirn crux 1k each

With its current nerf coming up in DB you couldnt pay me to waste a invintory spot holding for you. lol

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

And I honestly think communication would go a LONG way. Not just on this issue, on all of them. They clearly read the forums but only "z" response you ever get is from a mod telling you to behave. It's sometimes hard to behave when you're feeling ultimately ignored.

But we have to be honest with ourselves and realize that's whats bringing in the money right now. They are a company after all and that's there number one goal. But at the same time it shouldn't be their only goal. I think we should be calling them out on this stuff, but instead we(the forums in general, not you and i) attack each other, instead of blaming the source of the problem and trying to get changes made were it matters. Most of the times we are our own worst enemies on these forums. =(

Turelus

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

Does being known as a company that doesn't enforce their game do any different? I mean would you come and play a game if it had a reputation for not punishing cheaters.

I think the issue here is just the same as always with ZOS, some bizarre corporation structure and the suits not understanding how an MMO company is meant to function. I can't imagine the developers are sat back going "this isn't a problem, let's just continue as always" especially with a thread like this staying on the front page for days.

However I don't really know what can happen here, they can't do any more with the exploit that just happened at this point. So this thread is only really begging for change in how open they are and their level of communication on such matters.
However this has been something we've screamed for since day one in regards to all the issues. ZOS are just bad at communication and I don't think they're going to change.

I just wish someone could come in here and actually state some facts and answer some questions rather than the speculation which continues.

*sighs* I am just so tired of beating my head against the wall with this company. They make some great bursts of activity at the start of each new expansion announcement then it falls off again. We saw a thread about this a couple of months ago which they watched and took some notes from but still we're not at the level of having Developers chiming in and talking about important issues.

HxC

lordrichter wrote: »

HxC wrote: »

7- At midnight the script goes on and kick a lot of players from the game even those without the banker assistant.

Just to be clear. It is not guaranteed that the banker was required to do this, under every case where the exploit was possible. It is possible that it was discovered because of the banker, but the exploit has been in the game for a very long time because no one thought to do it. It is also possible that someone did think to do it, has been doing it for months, and the banker was a $40 "quality of life improvement" for them.

Yes, but a lot of players think you absolutely need the assistant to exploit. Secondly if the exploit was in game since more than one year, why ZOS have done nothing ? It's ZOS fault if they let a bug in their game more than one year and i don't think a lot of people were exploiting it. The real exploitation start since assistant banker is in game not before, i don't think a lot of player without the assistant was exploiting it.
In wrothgar for example if you need to go back to the bank each time i don't think it was better than farming normal node, if you can activate each map in one travel then go back to bank then gather all map, it was interesting .

MrTarkanian48

Magdalina wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wow wow... human nature at its best all over this thread.

My guess is that most people here asking for "hard punishment" are in fact envious of the exploiters and frustrated to not have know of the exploit earlier. They'd have used it no limit if they had known.

Yes actually.
This is a game. When we play a game, we usually abide certain rules. Why do we abide the rules in an activity that's done purely for fun? Simple, to keep it somewhat balanced, (relatively) fair and more or less equal for everyone.
For instance you don't play football with your hands. Even if it seems easier sometimes. Because it's FOOTball. If you do, you'll probably get kicked from the team.

Thing is rules only keep it fair and balanced if they're followed by everyone(well to be realistic they'll never be followed by EVERYONE, but at least the majority) and breaking them gets a punishment(like excluding the cheater from the game). Because otherwise the cheaters are at a direct advantage. It's like someone uses their hands in a football match and wins because of that. And he doesn't get kicked, and his score doesn't get discredited.

He used his hands in the game where you're not allowed to do so and won over the people who only used feet as they're supposed to. And the...um I don't know English terms for that well, sorry...couch? Judge? Sport commitee? Whoever's in charge, they recognized this as a legit victory.

So what should other players do NOW that they know if they keep playing by the rules here they'll likely simply be at a disadvantage? Two logical solutions:
1)Leave the place and play in a different team where players do get kicked for breaking rules/their score wouldn't count(buh bye ESO).
2)Start using hands as well because then everyone will be on more or less equal footing again. Basically pretending the "never touch the ball with your hands" doesn't rule doesn't exist for anyone.

It's not about evil nature of the humans(it would be if the goods in question had been removed but there'd been no punishment otherwise and people would be complaining about lack of punishment), it's about wanting fair play.

Now how ZOS can possibly not see this or think either of those 2 outcomes good is beyond me.

Real men play football with their hands.

Inklings

Turelus wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

Does being known as a company that doesn't enforce their game do any different? I mean would you come and play a game if it had a reputation for not punishing cheaters.

I think the issue here is just the same as always with ZOS, some bizarre corporation structure and the suits not understanding how an MMO company is meant to function. I can't imagine the developers are sat back going "this isn't a problem, let's just continue as always" especially with a thread like this staying on the front page for days.

However I don't really know what can happen here, they can't do any more with the exploit that just happened at this point. So this thread is only really begging for change in how open they are and their level of communication on such matters.
However this has been something we've screamed for since day one in regards to all the issues. ZOS are just bad at communication and I don't think they're going to change.

I just wish someone could come in here and actually state some facts and answer some questions rather than the speculation which continues.

*sighs* I am just so tired of beating my head against the wall with this company. They make some great bursts of activity at the start of each new expansion announcement then it falls off again. We saw a thread about this a couple of months ago which they watched and took some notes from but still we're not at the level of having Developers chiming in and talking about important issues.

The reputation ZoS has is something that we as players who already are invested in the game know about. This is not something that many new players know or find about until after playing, and those are the people ZoS is marketing the game to currently. We can tell this just by the way the last few updates were heavily geared to new players with little to nothing for end game established players. The whole restructure to vet levels and lack of CP raise in the upcoming DB speaks volumes to that fact.

I totally agree with you about the headaches with dealing with this company. I have never loved a game so much, yet had such resent for the people in charge. I'm begging for the day a new game comes along that i like enough to abandon everything i have done on my ESO account and never look back. Sadly, i have yet to find one, and seem to keep coming back to this game.

Magdalina

Inklings wrote: »

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

WTS potent nirn crux 1k each

With its current nerf coming up in DB you couldnt pay me to waste a invintory spot holding o

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

And I honestly think communication would go a LONG way. Not just on this issue, on all of them. They clearly read the forums but only "z" response you ever get is from a mod telling you to behave. It's sometimes hard to behave when you're feeling ultimately ignored.

But we have to be honest with ourselves and realize that's whats bringing in the money right now. They are a company after all and that's there number one goal. But at the same time it shouldn't be their only goal. I think we should be calling them out on this stuff, but instead we(the forums in general, not you and i) attack each other, instead of blaming the source of the problem and trying to get changes made were it matters. Most of the times we are our own worst enemies on these forums. =(

I understand that. But I honestly think they'll lose more in the long run. Because if all they wanna do is focus on quick cash-grabs in Crown Store now and do nothing to encourage(and actually do things to discourage) people from keeping playing their game...well I find that sad.

If "grab the money now and to hell with everything else" is the model ZOS chose though then yeah, not much we can do about it. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it though...or keep playing this game.

Turelus

Inklings wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

Does being known as a company that doesn't enforce their game do any different? I mean would you come and play a game if it had a reputation for not punishing cheaters.

I think the issue here is just the same as always with ZOS, some bizarre corporation structure and the suits not understanding how an MMO company is meant to function. I can't imagine the developers are sat back going "this isn't a problem, let's just continue as always" especially with a thread like this staying on the front page for days.

However I don't really know what can happen here, they can't do any more with the exploit that just happened at this point. So this thread is only really begging for change in how open they are and their level of communication on such matters.
However this has been something we've screamed for since day one in regards to all the issues. ZOS are just bad at communication and I don't think they're going to change.

I just wish someone could come in here and actually state some facts and answer some questions rather than the speculation which continues.

*sighs* I am just so tired of beating my head against the wall with this company. They make some great bursts of activity at the start of each new expansion announcement then it falls off again. We saw a thread about this a couple of months ago which they watched and took some notes from but still we're not at the level of having Developers chiming in and talking about important issues.

The reputation ZoS has is something that we as players who already are invested in the game know about. This is not something that many new players know or find about until after playing, and those are the people ZoS is marketing the game to currently. We can tell this just by the way the last few updates were heavily geared to new players with little to nothing for end game established players. The whole restructure to vet levels and lack of CP raise in the upcoming DB speaks volumes to that fact.

I totally agree with you about the headaches with dealing with this company. I have never loved a game so much, yet had such resent for the people in charge. I'm begging for the day a new game comes along that i like enough to abandon everything i have done on my ESO account and never look back. Sadly, i have yet to find one, and seem to keep coming back to this game.

I know what you mean.

I've just come back from a hiatus after the mess that was the Thieves Guild launch. Just a couple of weeks ago I was in Iceland for the yearly EVE Online fanfest and once again was blown away by how commutative the company which make it (CCP Games) are.

I was having a mental battle with myself about which game to continue to commit to (with seven years invested into EVE and two in ESO) eventually deciding I would come back to ESO and build a new guild (after moving on from my old one). However this whole exploiting thing has once again reminded me of the reasons I get so frustrated at ZOS.

I love this game to bits, I find hours of endless fun logged in playing and enjoying the content it offers, I look forward to all the new content coming, I'm still paying a sub since launch, I buy crowns to get extra store items I desire etc.
Then I remember that the people in charge (not the ZOS developers, they seem to understand our pains) have no clue as to how to actually run an MMO or feel ignoring issues is a better solution than investing time into addressing them.

We all keep going on about it and I keep posting it over and over again but I can't shake the feeling that someone at the very top either in ZOS or Zenimax Media is running the show but only looking at numbers which have a $ proceeding them.

Inklings

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

WTS potent nirn crux 1k each

With its current nerf coming up in DB you couldnt pay me to waste a invintory spot holding o

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

And I honestly think communication would go a LONG way. Not just on this issue, on all of them. They clearly read the forums but only "z" response you ever get is from a mod telling you to behave. It's sometimes hard to behave when you're feeling ultimately ignored.

But we have to be honest with ourselves and realize that's whats bringing in the money right now. They are a company after all and that's there number one goal. But at the same time it shouldn't be their only goal. I think we should be calling them out on this stuff, but instead we(the forums in general, not you and i) attack each other, instead of blaming the source of the problem and trying to get changes made were it matters. Most of the times we are our own worst enemies on these forums. =(

I understand that. But I honestly think they'll lose more in the long run. Because if all they wanna do is focus on quick cash-grabs in Crown Store now and do nothing to encourage(and actually do things to discourage) people from keeping playing their game...well I find that sad.

If "grab the money now and to hell with everything else" is the model ZOS chose though then yeah, not much we can do about it. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it though...or keep playing this game.

Doenst mater if we as long time supporters or end game players are upset. Quick cash grabs are how B2P games stay afloat. The influx of new players is going really well for ZoS right now, and that's who is going to get the most attention.

And you're right, we shouldn't be happy about it, and mostly cause we had the promise from this company even before the game went live that a "subscription based model is the only way to bring the best product to our players". This is the ONLY reason i even bought the game. After countless other games i played that were F2P or B2P failed me for the same reasons we are now seeing in this game, i was so happy to finally see another Sub based game announced. I felt so betrayed when they announced it was switching to a B2P model cause i knew right then the game would change and no longer cater to its loyal players. =(

Elsonso

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Alternately they could just be perm banned for life instead. Would you rather
lose all your stuff or lose your stuff AND your characters?

It is a shame that ZOS has to deal with people who deliberately take advantage of exploits, but they do. These people impact the game in a number of ways, some much less obvious than others. That does not mean they should run them out and shoot them the first time they do it.

Internal behavior stuff, like this, ZOS should issue some form of warning before banning them.

sadownik wrote: »

Right, but isnt it another issue Z. needs to figure out? Surely they, with all the data they have are capable of minimizing innocent players banned?

While you would not think so from what people say in the forum, I am sure they minimized the number of innocent players banned. In all cases where people claimed they were banned, and forgiven, they were clearly edge case behaviors.

HxC wrote: »

Yes, but a lot of players think you absolutely need the assistant to exploit. Secondly if the exploit was in game since more than one year, why ZOS have done nothing ? It's ZOS fault if they let a bug in their game more than one year and i don't think a lot of people were exploiting it. The real exploitation start since assistant banker is in game not before, i don't think a lot of player without the assistant was exploiting it.

We cannot know whether the bug was around since the introduction of the surveys, but based on what I know about the exploit from reading the forums, I have to think it that it was introduced at that time. How it was discovered is a complete mystery. Maybe it has been known for a long time. May the banker allowed the bug to be exposed.

In any case, ZOS cannot fix what they don't know about, and if they did not know about the bug before it was revealed to be an exploit, they could not have fixed it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I dont believe every case requires some sort of warning. This particular exploit was something damaging to the game. People all decked out in yellow gear because they exploited rather than earned it. It demeans every player who did things the right way. This type of thing if its a first offense strip the account. Second offense perm ban.

DisgracefulMind

It's been a few days now, can we put our pitchforks and torches away? ZoS hasn't made a statement and isn't going to.

I'm not saying that players are unjustified in feeling the way they do, I'm just saying that this is going nowhere.

Thornen

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It's been a few days now, can we put our pitchforks and torches away? ZoS hasn't made a statement and isn't going to.

I'm not saying that players are unjustified in feeling the way they do, I'm just saying that this is going nowhere.

No because anyone interested in this game will probably check out the forums first and they need to see what they will be getting into...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Thornen wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It's been a few days now, can we put our pitchforks and torches away? ZoS hasn't made a statement and isn't going to.

I'm not saying that players are unjustified in feeling the way they do, I'm just saying that this is going nowhere.

No because anyone interested in this game will probably check out the forums first and they need to see what they will be getting into...

I doubt that to be honest. Most players dont even know the forums exist on these games.

Turelus

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It's been a few days now, can we put our pitchforks and torches away? ZoS hasn't made a statement and isn't going to.

I'm not saying that players are unjustified in feeling the way they do, I'm just saying that this is going nowhere.

The pitch forks have been gone for a while now, this is mostly just disheartened players once again grumbling about how ZOS keeps letting their players down.

It's all contained in one thread now though and people are still interested in discussing it.

I think the thread will run itself out eventually any way and ZOS will get their wish of this all blowing over.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I certainly hope next time they do a little more than 72 hrs and you keep the loot. If its a second offense for sure should be perm ban if proven.

Teridaxus

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wow wow... human nature at its best all over this thread.

My guess is that most people here asking for "hard punishment" are in fact envious of the exploiters and frustrated to not have know of the exploit earlier. They'd have used it no limit if they had known.

Yes actually.
This is a game. When we play a game, we usually abide certain rules. Why do we abide the rules in an activity that's done purely for fun? Simple, to keep it somewhat balanced, (relatively) fair and more or less equal for everyone.
For instance you don't play football with your hands. Even if it seems easier sometimes. Because it's FOOTball. If you do, you'll probably get kicked from the team.

Thing is rules only keep it fair and balanced if they're followed by everyone(well to be realistic they'll never be followed by EVERYONE, but at least the majority) and breaking them gets a punishment(like excluding the cheater from the game). Because otherwise the cheaters are at a direct advantage. It's like someone uses their hands in a football match and wins because of that. And he doesn't get kicked, and his score doesn't get discredited.

He used his hands in the game where you're not allowed to do so and won over the people who only used feet as they're supposed to. And the...um I don't know English terms for that well, sorry...couch? Judge? Sport commitee? Whoever's in charge, they recognized this as a legit victory.

So what should other players do NOW that they know if they keep playing by the rules here they'll likely simply be at a disadvantage? Two logical solutions:
1)Leave the place and play in a different team where players do get kicked for breaking rules/their score wouldn't count(buh bye ESO).
2)Start using hands as well because then everyone will be on more or less equal footing again. Basically pretending the "never touch the ball with your hands" doesn't rule doesn't exist for anyone.

It's not about evil nature of the humans(it would be if the goods in question had been removed but there'd been no punishment otherwise and people would be complaining about lack of punishment), it's about wanting fair play.

Now how ZOS can possibly not see this or think either of those 2 outcomes good is beyond me.

Real men play football with their hands.

You mean handegg?

Inklings

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wow wow... human nature at its best all over this thread.

My guess is that most people here asking for "hard punishment" are in fact envious of the exploiters and frustrated to not have know of the exploit earlier. They'd have used it no limit if they had known.

Yes actually.
This is a game. When we play a game, we usually abide certain rules. Why do we abide the rules in an activity that's done purely for fun? Simple, to keep it somewhat balanced, (relatively) fair and more or less equal for everyone.
For instance you don't play football with your hands. Even if it seems easier sometimes. Because it's FOOTball. If you do, you'll probably get kicked from the team.

Thing is rules only keep it fair and balanced if they're followed by everyone(well to be realistic they'll never be followed by EVERYONE, but at least the majority) and breaking them gets a punishment(like excluding the cheater from the game). Because otherwise the cheaters are at a direct advantage. It's like someone uses their hands in a football match and wins because of that. And he doesn't get kicked, and his score doesn't get discredited.

He used his hands in the game where you're not allowed to do so and won over the people who only used feet as they're supposed to. And the...um I don't know English terms for that well, sorry...couch? Judge? Sport commitee? Whoever's in charge, they recognized this as a legit victory.

So what should other players do NOW that they know if they keep playing by the rules here they'll likely simply be at a disadvantage? Two logical solutions:
1)Leave the place and play in a different team where players do get kicked for breaking rules/their score wouldn't count(buh bye ESO).
2)Start using hands as well because then everyone will be on more or less equal footing again. Basically pretending the "never touch the ball with your hands" doesn't rule doesn't exist for anyone.

It's not about evil nature of the humans(it would be if the goods in question had been removed but there'd been no punishment otherwise and people would be complaining about lack of punishment), it's about wanting fair play.

Now how ZOS can possibly not see this or think either of those 2 outcomes good is beyond me.

Real men play football with their hands.

You mean handegg?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4msKdfMtGY

istateres

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I certainly hope next time they do a little more than 72 hrs and you keep the loot. If its a second offense for sure should be perm ban if proven.

Willing to wager a stack of gold mats that this will not happen. ;-)

Ichnaea

So ZOS practically ruins PVP for the sake of shutting down botters. They make tons of money off of people that buy their overpriced garbage banker for the end result of cheating. Canadian justice ensues: "Sorry I was going 40 over the speed limit officer!" "Oh, get out of here you." And this comes right after a popular twitch streamer was "punished" with similar results.

So my take: ZOS doesn't care if you cheat, just as long as money is still going in their pockets.

How in the *** do you guys still play this game?

[edited for evading profanity filter]

ForsakenSin

Rubedite ingots for vet 16 armor were for sale 25 for 2.6K now you can find 200 Rubedite ingots for 3k or less ive seen same person selling many stacks of 200 for that price .....

Ackwalan

Ichnaea wrote: »

So ZOS practically ruins PVP for the sake of shutting down botters. They make tons of money off of people that buy their overpriced garbage banker for the end result of cheating. Canadian justice ensues: "Sorry I was going 40 over the speed limit officer!" "Oh, get out of here you." And this comes right after a popular twitch streamer was "punished" with similar results.

So my take: ZOS doesn't care if you cheat, just as long as money is still going in their pockets.

How in the *** do you guys still play this game?

That popular twitch streamer was banned for 15 minutes.

[minor edit for quote]

khele23eb17_ESO

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

Keep in mind those 'fluff people' bring in the cash. Without them ZOS would have even less money in the pool.

Magdalina

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

Keep in mind those 'fluff people' bring in the cash. Without them ZOS would have even less money in the pool.

Does that really mean the game's one and only purpose should be fluff now?:/

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

WTS potent nirn crux 1k each

With its current nerf coming up in DB you couldnt pay me to waste a invintory spot holding o

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

And I honestly think communication would go a LONG way. Not just on this issue, on all of them. They clearly read the forums but only "z" response you ever get is from a mod telling you to behave. It's sometimes hard to behave when you're feeling ultimately ignored.

But we have to be honest with ourselves and realize that's whats bringing in the money right now. They are a company after all and that's there number one goal. But at the same time it shouldn't be their only goal. I think we should be calling them out on this stuff, but instead we(the forums in general, not you and i) attack each other, instead of blaming the source of the problem and trying to get changes made were it matters. Most of the times we are our own worst enemies on these forums. =(

I understand that. But I honestly think they'll lose more in the long run. Because if all they wanna do is focus on quick cash-grabs in Crown Store now and do nothing to encourage(and actually do things to discourage) people from keeping playing their game...well I find that sad.

If "grab the money now and to hell with everything else" is the model ZOS chose though then yeah, not much we can do about it. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it though...or keep playing this game.

Doenst mater if we as long time supporters or end game players are upset. Quick cash grabs are how B2P games stay afloat. The influx of new players is going really well for ZoS right now, and that's who is going to get the most attention.

And you're right, we shouldn't be happy about it, and mostly cause we had the promise from this company even before the game went live that a "subscription based model is the only way to bring the best product to our players". This is the ONLY reason i even bought the game. After countless other games i played that were F2P or B2P failed me for the same reasons we are now seeing in this game, i was so happy to finally see another Sub based game announced. I felt so betrayed when they announced it was switching to a B2P model cause i knew right then the game would change and no longer cater to its loyal players. =(

Unfortunately looks like that's true...I must say I didn't realize what was so awful about b2p at first, it's my first MMO and while I did feel kind of wary about it, it was mostly because they broke a promise over it(not the last time they did that...) and because it kind of felt like folks have been paying to beta test the game for consoles(no offence to console people)...now I'm beginning to see why people were so opposed to the idea though, seems like ZOS has 0 incentive to go back and fix things now that it's literally more profitable for them(in the short run at least, and doesn't look like they care for much else) to introduce a new half naked dress
Sad but maybe it's time to go back to adventure/puzzle games for me lol.

Turelus

1 week since the first thread about the issue, 15k views and 330 replies in this thread later.

Nothing has changed or been spoken about. I am going to watch ESO Live tonight in hopes something is said there however I won't hold my breath for it.

I'm so frustrated at ZOS once again for their terrible communication on this issue. I really don't understand how a modern MMO company can have such a standoffish stance in regards to communication with their player base. Sure many people are rude and will rip apart everything they say, but that shouldn't stop them from making official statements.

As always this whole thing has come down to ZOS doesn't communicate with us. I just really hope they're ready for the backlash which will come from whatever the next major exploit is. It's not going to be pleasant for them if it's handled the same way this was.

daemonios

Magdalina wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

Keep in mind those 'fluff people' bring in the cash. Without them ZOS would have even less money in the pool.

Does that really mean the game's one and only purpose should be fluff now?:/

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

WTS potent nirn crux 1k each

With its current nerf coming up in DB you couldnt pay me to waste a invintory spot holding o

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I would love for all these people that want blood over this to be innocently caught up in one of these ban/suspension waves and have to go through all the steps to try to get it rectified only to have the suspension withheld. People would have such a different tone about this if they only knew how often ZoS wrongfully suspends and bans players. The same players will *** and complain about how bad the game is coded or how poorly it runs, while at the same time believe that ZoS has a full proof way of catching and stopping stuff like this survey exploit. If these players even slightly had an issue were ZoS wrongfully threatened to take away everything they have earned in game, they would be singing a different tune.

Actually what most of us would prefer would be for the acquired mats to be removed. And yes. It's probably not as easy as it sounds. But if you made a f***-up like this(and ZOS did), have the decency to at least try to set it right instead of taking the cheap way out.

Honestly, they can't come out and say it but they are so understaffed for issue like this. That doenst make it right though, and they should be more open about stuff like this, but we all know if they were it would hurt their reputation and sales drastically. So they will put a band-aid on it, keep quite about it, and wait for the problem to go away.

They probably are but perhaps it'd help some if they'd take some people off making more Crown Store costumes and mounts and onto more useful stuff.

And yes, I'm aware those are (probably) different people. But those people get paid from the same pool. If the company can afford to hire, say, 10 people to do Crown Store fluff but only 2 to look after exploits and the company is content with this ratio(given the current "effectiveness" of the system) then, well, I don't know what to say.

And I honestly think communication would go a LONG way. Not just on this issue, on all of them. They clearly read the forums but only "z" response you ever get is from a mod telling you to behave. It's sometimes hard to behave when you're feeling ultimately ignored.

But we have to be honest with ourselves and realize that's whats bringing in the money right now. They are a company after all and that's there number one goal. But at the same time it shouldn't be their only goal. I think we should be calling them out on this stuff, but instead we(the forums in general, not you and i) attack each other, instead of blaming the source of the problem and trying to get changes made were it matters. Most of the times we are our own worst enemies on these forums. =(

I understand that. But I honestly think they'll lose more in the long run. Because if all they wanna do is focus on quick cash-grabs in Crown Store now and do nothing to encourage(and actually do things to discourage) people from keeping playing their game...well I find that sad.

If "grab the money now and to hell with everything else" is the model ZOS chose though then yeah, not much we can do about it. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it though...or keep playing this game.

Doenst mater if we as long time supporters or end game players are upset. Quick cash grabs are how B2P games stay afloat. The influx of new players is going really well for ZoS right now, and that's who is going to get the most attention.

And you're right, we shouldn't be happy about it, and mostly cause we had the promise from this company even before the game went live that a "subscription based model is the only way to bring the best product to our players". This is the ONLY reason i even bought the game. After countless other games i played that were F2P or B2P failed me for the same reasons we are now seeing in this game, i was so happy to finally see another Sub based game announced. I felt so betrayed when they announced it was switching to a B2P model cause i knew right then the game would change and no longer cater to its loyal players. =(

Unfortunately looks like that's true...I must say I didn't realize what was so awful about b2p at first, it's my first MMO and while I did feel kind of wary about it, it was mostly because they broke a promise over it(not the last time they did that...) and because it kind of felt like folks have been paying to beta test the game for consoles(no offence to console people)...now I'm beginning to see why people were so opposed to the idea though, seems like ZOS has 0 incentive to go back and fix things now that it's literally more profitable for them(in the short run at least, and doesn't look like they care for much else) to introduce a new half naked dress
Sad but maybe it's time to go back to adventure/puzzle games for me lol.

It has ALWAYS been the case with microtransactions. I've seen it happen in multiple games that went from subscription to F2P/B2P/whatever euphemism you wish to call it. This is why I've always reacted VERY negatively to the crown store. This is why I refuse to validate the model and am sitting on 30k+ crowns from my subscription, having spent not a single one. Money-wise, microtransactions make all the sense. In terms of game design/player satisfaction, though, I cannot see a single positive aspect.

Cryptical

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Rubedite ingots for vet 16 armor were for sale 25 for 2.6K now you can find 200 Rubedite ingots for 3k or less ive seen same person selling many stacks of 200 for that price .....

So prices have gone down on items that are going to be used up.

They will get used up. BFD.

Kalebron

Volkodav wrote: »

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

Did anyone ask @ZOS_RichLambert why they decided to proceed the way they did on this issue with a 3 day band and still tons of the mats and temper?

If it were me,I'd have not banned anyone,but rather just removed the things they shouldnt have gotten.So that when they went ingame they would find out their ill gotten goods had been confiscated,and a note would be in their inbox explaining why.

I think this would have made perfect sense. Don't ban, just take the stuff.

Manpoints

To those saying we should drop it - I get it bros, you got a bunch of yellows and gold, you dont wanna lose your stuff, we hear you. (I see people in here sitting on THOUSANDS of mats :P You know I know who you are)

To those saying its positive or doesn't affect other players, for those that are now competing against cheaters - IT DOES make it more difficult to move product when the market is saturated, not just in guild stores, but people selling hundreds of yellow mats in zone.

To those saying the zealous people in here are just jelly and would do it if they could? Maybe they will? Maybe 80% of the vet population will, how will you move your exploited mats then? Drop mats to 1k and saturate the game with gold. GG.

To ZOS, you guys need to step up here because any inaction will encourage more exploitation later and you'll then have to address punishment of a much larger portion of the community than the rather limited amount this time around.

*EDIT* Best option I feel tossed out so far, is a complete removal of all profits/mats gathered through these shenanigans.

Turelus

Saw this today, made me laugh and think of this thread.