A honest question to the community [Please Close Thread]

RinaldoGandolphi

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The fact this even happens is sad (I am talking about whining and pointing fingers at people in a group)

This kinda stuff right here makes me glad i left the game, and I have every single no death perfect run achievement for every single group dungeon in the darn game...this is just pathetic to treat people this way.

im sorry but if you wouldn't treat or say something like that to someones face in real life, you sure as all be shouldn't be saying it over a keyboard...

there is no "I" in team, when you drop group after two wipes or 100 wipes, they are not the failure, YOU ARE!

Defeat doesn't finish a man, quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

Remember that next time you drop a group because in reality your just a quitter....a winner finds a way to to overcome challenges regardless of the roadblocks in front of him....i took 3 pugs though Vet WGT two months ago their very first run with no TS and only died 3 times the whole fight...again...i found ways to make up for what they didn't know, I found ways to motivate them to get it done...i don't drop failure at the feet of others, I drop failure at my own feet.

There is simply no justifiable reason to ever treat people this way, none...its absolutely classes.

Again not to beat a dead horse down but you are right I should not treat people this way. Also on another note I highly disagree with the middle of your statement at some point something just have to give, and instead of choosing to miss the completed HRC guild run I had, just to stay with said group and be absolutely hating my gaming life for the next 2 or 3 hours or so on in there. I made the choice of fun over misery in a game, which I should have done from the get go. Oh and btw the way if you think our HRC run went completely smooth you would be mistaking we had about 3 or so people in that run from guild who was doing it for their first time. But we cooperated with each other and persevered in spite of the 3 or 4 wipes we had at last boss and the ones in between..

That alone shows your man/woman enough to recognize you could have handled it better, thats commendable and does show class.

I can also understand if you had to leave because your guild had a Trial Event planned, that happens and is in no way a slight to anyone. As always, just chalk it up as a lessoned learned. I think you ahve already taken something positive from it, thats a step in the right direction. i'd say thats good enough Best of luck to you.

idk

Ackwalan wrote: »

You (or anyone else) don't need to look at the picture for the answer. If you felt you needed to come to the forums to ask, "was I being rude", you already know the answer.

This is so obvious.

Zyle

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Sigh...OP you weren't rude, it's just some people are incapable of understanding there may be someone out there with more experience or straight up a better build....the math doesn't lie. I feel like that person would sink with a ship because their job was to steer, but grabbing a life vest is too far outside of the job role -_-

That other person might be not the best healer, but BoL crits do not prove anything. I can also pick a ritual mundus, 100 points in Blessed and spam BoL on an argonian dk tank with 5/5 heavy and coagulating blood active who would stand inside my purifying ritual for ridiculously high BoLs, but its kinda pointless and wont prove that my healing became better compared to my normal setup. Actually, for unexperienced healer with suboptimal build spammingf BoL is the best way to run out of magicka and cause a wipe.
And if I had 2 ppl in group who can either heal or dps, I would ask the one with higher spell dmg/crit to dps. Cause healing springs/repentance/whatnot work fine even with low stats.

P.S. When measuring your BoL keep in mind that one of BoLs might actually hit a person with +% healing reecieved.

True, but given a few more seconds on my log I would've been able to sum up the healing just fine. I believe OP said it was non-crit BoL as well.

Maybe that is more along the lines of the discussion the other person should have been willing to have. I've personally run into the type of people who attempt to break down every aspect of my build or question how much of my role I'm holding up and be ridiculously rude about it. OP was definitely not being rude in my eyes. In fact I have equal if not less respect for the type of person OP was supposedly rude to: immediately defensive for no reason, not willing to discuss, not willing to switch a role for a dungeon they supposedly know, overall just taking everything way too personal. It's like they're just in a group to be a solo player, incredibly lame.

Rune_Relic

Yeah...form my view you were an epeen waving arse.
Who had the biggest epeen was competely irrelevant.
They're using the grouping tool ...as a healer...to be the healer....to practice healing.
Then you start saying....well you suck at healing compared to me...so I dont care if you are supposed to be the healer and joined the group to practice/develop/focus healing.

Not cool my friend. Not cool at all.
It is cool that you questioned yourself though.
Shows much promise

FearlessOne_2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Yeah...form my view you were an epeen waving arse.
Who had the biggest epeen was competely irrelevant.
They're using the grouping tool ...as a healer...to be the healer....to practice healing.
Then you start saying....well you suck at healing compared to me...so I dont care if you are supposed to be the healer and joined the group to practice/develop/focus healing.

Not cool my friend. Not cool at all.
It is cool that you questioned yourself though.
Shows much promise

Thank you for the input. I'm not going to even try to justify how I acted in there should've simply just left at first boss. Now I know another hard lesson learned.

LadyNalcarya

Zyle wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Sigh...OP you weren't rude, it's just some people are incapable of understanding there may be someone out there with more experience or straight up a better build....the math doesn't lie. I feel like that person would sink with a ship because their job was to steer, but grabbing a life vest is too far outside of the job role -_-

That other person might be not the best healer, but BoL crits do not prove anything. I can also pick a ritual mundus, 100 points in Blessed and spam BoL on an argonian dk tank with 5/5 heavy and coagulating blood active who would stand inside my purifying ritual for ridiculously high BoLs, but its kinda pointless and wont prove that my healing became better compared to my normal setup. Actually, for unexperienced healer with suboptimal build spammingf BoL is the best way to run out of magicka and cause a wipe.
And if I had 2 ppl in group who can either heal or dps, I would ask the one with higher spell dmg/crit to dps. Cause healing springs/repentance/whatnot work fine even with low stats.

P.S. When measuring your BoL keep in mind that one of BoLs might actually hit a person with +% healing reecieved.

True, but given a few more seconds on my log I would've been able to sum up the healing just fine. I believe OP said it was non-crit BoL as well.

Maybe that is more along the lines of the discussion the other person should have been willing to have. I've personally run into the type of people who attempt to break down every aspect of my build or question how much of my role I'm holding up and be ridiculously rude about it. OP was definitely not being rude in my eyes. In fact I have equal if not less respect for the type of person OP was supposedly rude to: immediately defensive for no reason, not willing to discuss, not willing to switch a role for a dungeon they supposedly know, overall just taking everything way too personal. It's like they're just in a group to be a solo player, incredibly lame.

But if that person joined as a healer, forcing them to go dps is kinda stupid. Firstly, dps is more gear dependent than heals so it would make total sense for a person with better gear to dps.
Secondly, I usually have both dps and healing sets, but if I only had one, I wouldve refused to go full dps out of the blue. I add some damage when healing, but its not a real dps build... Also, if the person in question is still leveling, they might not even have enough skill points for this.

Zyle

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Sigh...OP you weren't rude, it's just some people are incapable of understanding there may be someone out there with more experience or straight up a better build....the math doesn't lie. I feel like that person would sink with a ship because their job was to steer, but grabbing a life vest is too far outside of the job role -_-

That other person might be not the best healer, but BoL crits do not prove anything. I can also pick a ritual mundus, 100 points in Blessed and spam BoL on an argonian dk tank with 5/5 heavy and coagulating blood active who would stand inside my purifying ritual for ridiculously high BoLs, but its kinda pointless and wont prove that my healing became better compared to my normal setup. Actually, for unexperienced healer with suboptimal build spammingf BoL is the best way to run out of magicka and cause a wipe.
And if I had 2 ppl in group who can either heal or dps, I would ask the one with higher spell dmg/crit to dps. Cause healing springs/repentance/whatnot work fine even with low stats.

P.S. When measuring your BoL keep in mind that one of BoLs might actually hit a person with +% healing reecieved.

True, but given a few more seconds on my log I would've been able to sum up the healing just fine. I believe OP said it was non-crit BoL as well.

Maybe that is more along the lines of the discussion the other person should have been willing to have. I've personally run into the type of people who attempt to break down every aspect of my build or question how much of my role I'm holding up and be ridiculously rude about it. OP was definitely not being rude in my eyes. In fact I have equal if not less respect for the type of person OP was supposedly rude to: immediately defensive for no reason, not willing to discuss, not willing to switch a role for a dungeon they supposedly know, overall just taking everything way too personal. It's like they're just in a group to be a solo player, incredibly lame.

But if that person joined as a healer, forcing them to go dps is kinda stupid. Firstly, dps is more gear dependent than heals so it would make total sense for a person with better gear to dps.
Secondly, I usually have both dps and healing sets, but if I only had one, I wouldve refused to go full dps out of the blue. I add some damage when healing, but its not a real dps build... Also, if the person in question is still leveling, they might not even have enough skill points for this.

My point wasn't that they didn't switch, it's that they weren't even willing to have a discussion and immediately threw a wall up. They could have easily said, I feel more comfortable healing because I don't have gear to DPS, instead they took it personal and made the situation worse.

LadyNalcarya

Zyle wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Sigh...OP you weren't rude, it's just some people are incapable of understanding there may be someone out there with more experience or straight up a better build....the math doesn't lie. I feel like that person would sink with a ship because their job was to steer, but grabbing a life vest is too far outside of the job role -_-

That other person might be not the best healer, but BoL crits do not prove anything. I can also pick a ritual mundus, 100 points in Blessed and spam BoL on an argonian dk tank with 5/5 heavy and coagulating blood active who would stand inside my purifying ritual for ridiculously high BoLs, but its kinda pointless and wont prove that my healing became better compared to my normal setup. Actually, for unexperienced healer with suboptimal build spammingf BoL is the best way to run out of magicka and cause a wipe.
And if I had 2 ppl in group who can either heal or dps, I would ask the one with higher spell dmg/crit to dps. Cause healing springs/repentance/whatnot work fine even with low stats.

P.S. When measuring your BoL keep in mind that one of BoLs might actually hit a person with +% healing reecieved.

True, but given a few more seconds on my log I would've been able to sum up the healing just fine. I believe OP said it was non-crit BoL as well.

Maybe that is more along the lines of the discussion the other person should have been willing to have. I've personally run into the type of people who attempt to break down every aspect of my build or question how much of my role I'm holding up and be ridiculously rude about it. OP was definitely not being rude in my eyes. In fact I have equal if not less respect for the type of person OP was supposedly rude to: immediately defensive for no reason, not willing to discuss, not willing to switch a role for a dungeon they supposedly know, overall just taking everything way too personal. It's like they're just in a group to be a solo player, incredibly lame.

But if that person joined as a healer, forcing them to go dps is kinda stupid. Firstly, dps is more gear dependent than heals so it would make total sense for a person with better gear to dps.
Secondly, I usually have both dps and healing sets, but if I only had one, I wouldve refused to go full dps out of the blue. I add some damage when healing, but its not a real dps build... Also, if the person in question is still leveling, they might not even have enough skill points for this.

My point wasn't that they didn't switch, it's that they weren't even willing to have a discussion and immediately threw a wall up. They could have easily said, I feel more comfortable healing because I don't have gear to DPS, instead they took it personal and made the situation worse.

Well, perhaps it was a but radical, but you see, they joined as a healer and they dont have to do anything other than that. Especially with such silly reasoning. If they had bad gear and no practice, it means their dps would be utter crap and it would make things more complicated (longer fight=more heals needed=more chances to wipe)
If they had issues with healing, it would be smarter to discuss these issues instead.

Luigi_Vampa

People need to accept that they might have to change after two wipes. If that means changing skills or roles then so be it. He should have switched roles with you to see if it makes a difference.

LadyNalcarya

Typhoios wrote: »

People need to accept that they might have to change after two wipes. If that means changing skills or roles then so be it. He should have switched roles with you to see if it makes a difference.

Tbh wipe on this boss already means that dps was low (too much fire/too many adds). Or that dds were too squishy and died to the jump.

FearlessOne_2014

Typhoios wrote: »

People need to accept that they might have to change after two wipes. If that means changing skills or roles then so be it. He should have switched roles with you to see if it makes a difference.

In my honest heart I would have been able to carry heal that group if I didn't have to play dps and healer at the same time here's one of my recent video of me healing on my NB at V4 up scaled to v16 in vCoA now imagine me on the Templar going full dedicated heals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mythuiDsQo

Yes it would took a bit longer but we more then likely would have not had to worry about wiping.

In advance forgive the video quality as this was my first direct youtube upload.

Luigi_Vampa

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

People need to accept that they might have to change after two wipes. If that means changing skills or roles then so be it. He should have switched roles with you to see if it makes a difference.

In my honest heart I would have been able to carry heal that group if I didn't have to play dps and healer at the same time here's one of my recent video of me healing on my NB at V4 up scaled to v16 in vCoA now imagine me on the Templar going full dedicated heals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mythuiDsQo

Yes it would took a bit longer but we more then likely would have not had to worry about wiping.

In advance forgive the video quality as this was my first direct youtube upload.

You don't need full heals for Bogdan. Ritual + rapid + BoL after the jump should be enough. Ignore the adds and burn him down. If people are standing in fire, well that is just stupid.

Luigi_Vampa

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

People need to accept that they might have to change after two wipes. If that means changing skills or roles then so be it. He should have switched roles with you to see if it makes a difference.

Tbh wipe on this boss already means that dps was low (too much fire/too many adds). Or that dds were too squishy and died to the jump.

I agree. Even with average dps you should be able to burn Bogdan down. It is a easy dungeon.

Shadowfx1970

Sorry, I'm going to be really childish now, I just found it funny that you were comparing Bols (Balls) in a dungeon, I'll go back and sit in my corner now.

LadyNalcarya

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

People need to accept that they might have to change after two wipes. If that means changing skills or roles then so be it. He should have switched roles with you to see if it makes a difference.

In my honest heart I would have been able to carry heal that group if I didn't have to play dps and healer at the same time here's one of my recent video of me healing on my NB at V4 up scaled to v16 in vCoA now imagine me on the Templar going full dedicated heals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mythuiDsQo

Yes it would took a bit longer but we more then likely would have not had to worry about wiping.

In advance forgive the video quality as this was my first direct youtube upload.

This kinda proves that you dont need strong BoL to heal in dungeons. ^^

sekou_trayvond

Hmmmmm.....

I've seen worse. Much worse. U didn't curse anyone out, which is a huge plus.

Text chat is terribly imperfect to carry-on such in game convos. I thought you explained things well enough. Numbers are numbers.

But I also understand, "roll with the role" u entered the dungeon with.

If after a wipe or two then perhaps lay the math out? I dunno. Tough call.

Abeille

The problem with communicating by text is that sometimes we sound condescending when we are not trying to be, because we can't hear the person's tone. It happens.

I think it was rude not to blurry out the names of the people involved, though.

Zyle

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Sigh...OP you weren't rude, it's just some people are incapable of understanding there may be someone out there with more experience or straight up a better build....the math doesn't lie. I feel like that person would sink with a ship because their job was to steer, but grabbing a life vest is too far outside of the job role -_-

That other person might be not the best healer, but BoL crits do not prove anything. I can also pick a ritual mundus, 100 points in Blessed and spam BoL on an argonian dk tank with 5/5 heavy and coagulating blood active who would stand inside my purifying ritual for ridiculously high BoLs, but its kinda pointless and wont prove that my healing became better compared to my normal setup. Actually, for unexperienced healer with suboptimal build spammingf BoL is the best way to run out of magicka and cause a wipe.
And if I had 2 ppl in group who can either heal or dps, I would ask the one with higher spell dmg/crit to dps. Cause healing springs/repentance/whatnot work fine even with low stats.

P.S. When measuring your BoL keep in mind that one of BoLs might actually hit a person with +% healing reecieved.

True, but given a few more seconds on my log I would've been able to sum up the healing just fine. I believe OP said it was non-crit BoL as well.

Maybe that is more along the lines of the discussion the other person should have been willing to have. I've personally run into the type of people who attempt to break down every aspect of my build or question how much of my role I'm holding up and be ridiculously rude about it. OP was definitely not being rude in my eyes. In fact I have equal if not less respect for the type of person OP was supposedly rude to: immediately defensive for no reason, not willing to discuss, not willing to switch a role for a dungeon they supposedly know, overall just taking everything way too personal. It's like they're just in a group to be a solo player, incredibly lame.

But if that person joined as a healer, forcing them to go dps is kinda stupid. Firstly, dps is more gear dependent than heals so it would make total sense for a person with better gear to dps.
Secondly, I usually have both dps and healing sets, but if I only had one, I wouldve refused to go full dps out of the blue. I add some damage when healing, but its not a real dps build... Also, if the person in question is still leveling, they might not even have enough skill points for this.

My point wasn't that they didn't switch, it's that they weren't even willing to have a discussion and immediately threw a wall up. They could have easily said, I feel more comfortable healing because I don't have gear to DPS, instead they took it personal and made the situation worse.

Well, perhaps it was a but radical, but you see, they joined as a healer and they dont have to do anything other than that. Especially with such silly reasoning. If they had bad gear and no practice, it means their dps would be utter crap and it would make things more complicated (longer fight=more heals needed=more chances to wipe)
If they had issues with healing, it would be smarter to discuss these issues instead.

That's not relevant to what I posted, my point was he wasn't even open to discussing it. Again, it would have been much easier if they responded like an adult instead of taking it personal and making the situation worse.

Daraugh

Just another observation here, since the player was already embarrassed in the group, the screenshots show all the chat, character names and @ names, the OP might consider dropping this thread as the mods may consider it naming and shaming.

Valrien

Honestly...both of you were wrong. It doesn't matter who's BoL hits harder (you really don't need a healer, EH is like a 5-minute dungeon), what matters is which healer can do more DPS while healing, which healer supports more (not JUST heals with a splash of DPS), and which healer has better sets (the gear makes the healer. SPC is a 'UGE boost).

You might have been a better healer than him, but the way you were saying you might have been was wrong.

RoyalPink06

Personally I don't think you were rude at all. its not your fault that the other person didn't realize you were only trying to optimize the group's performance for the dungeon. I guess that's the trouble with text chat - there is no tone of voice so things can be easily mistaken for rudeness.

If I were on the receiving end of that conversation, I would welcome the change of strategy and constructive feedback, especially if it makes the dungeon go faster. They should have at least been willing to give it a shot and see how it worked.

Oh well, live and learn.

driosketch

Late to this discussion, but it looks like while there was no intentional rudeness or malicious intent, you still managed to insult your healer's pride. You may not be aware you did at the time, but trying to brush it off right after in an attempt to remain diplomatic may have actually made it worse.

Everyone reacts differently, and text lacks tone. You can't be responsible for other people's emotions. That said, what you do now will depend on what's important to you, and the type of person you want to be socially.

WalkingLegacy

Welcome to MMOs.

Some people don't like constructive criticism, or adapting their playstyle to the group.

FearlessOne_2014

Valrien wrote: »

Honestly...both of you were wrong. It doesn't matter who's BoL hits harder (you really don't need a healer, EH is like a 5-minute dungeon), what matters is which healer can do more DPS while healing, which healer supports more (not JUST heals with a splash of DPS), and which healer has better sets (the gear makes the healer. SPC is a 'UGE boost).

You might have been a better healer than him, but the way you were saying you might have been was wrong.

Yeah I should've left after first boss and not even wasted my time with that situation. But I was looking to overturn the odds by myself which I couldn't. Shouldn't even said any thing, now that I look back on it, no matter what or how nice I put the words, they still would've been rude. Like said above lesson learned.

jzholloway

You did exactly what you should have done... if your heals work better, offer to heal - unless your DPS is way better as well and the heals are adequate. People need to understand, regardless of level, skill, CP, experience, someone will always be better at a role then you, and that is okay. If you were clearly the better healer (its not just numbers, but skill as well), and his or her DPS was on par with yours, you should heal... period. Now, if its a non vet dungeon, or you really aren't having any issues, then let the other person heal and learn. But no, you were not being rude, pompous, elitist or anything like that.

Luigi_Vampa

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Honestly...both of you were wrong. It doesn't matter who's BoL hits harder (you really don't need a healer, EH is like a 5-minute dungeon), what matters is which healer can do more DPS while healing, which healer supports more (not JUST heals with a splash of DPS), and which healer has better sets (the gear makes the healer. SPC is a 'UGE boost).

You might have been a better healer than him, but the way you were saying you might have been was wrong.

Yeah I should've left after first boss and not even wasted my time with that situation. But I was looking to overturn the odds by myself which I couldn't. Shouldn't even said any thing, now that I look back on it, no matter what or how nice I put the words, they still would've been rude. Like said above lesson learned.

Leaving after the first boss is rude. Trying to help people complete content isn't. The guy was just extra sensitive and not a team player. You can't really help people if they won't accept any form of criticism or be willing to try different approaches.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Honestly...both of you were wrong. It doesn't matter who's BoL hits harder (you really don't need a healer, EH is like a 5-minute dungeon), what matters is which healer can do more DPS while healing, which healer supports more (not JUST heals with a splash of DPS), and which healer has better sets (the gear makes the healer. SPC is a 'UGE boost).

You might have been a better healer than him, but the way you were saying you might have been was wrong.

Yeah I should've left after first boss and not even wasted my time with that situation. But I was looking to overturn the odds by myself which I couldn't. Shouldn't even said any thing, now that I look back on it, no matter what or how nice I put the words, they still would've been rude. Like said above lesson learned.

Leaving dungeons has made me feel much better. You sound like you have done enough dungeons that you shoild be able to spot issues right away.

It is a great change. You get to decide after the first couple of pulls. Should i stay with this mess, or just cut it and run. With the improved dungeon finder waiting on the next one aint even that long.

Anyway at least it makes me feel better. Because even though i am usually the group leader i hate kicking people. Everyone can try to do the dungeons if they want. I dont alwaays feel like i get to decide who goes or stays. But they dont have to do with me, so off i go.

Ofcourse i have made the same mistake you have. You stick with it because you think you can make it. Get to the last boss just to find out it aint gonna happen. Then i have to listen to my gf who is usually grouped with me tell me, i told you we should have left! Blah blah blah!

FearlessOne_2014

Well I'd like to thank you all for yalls participation in this thread and also for setting me on the correct course of action if this situation was to persent it's self in this game again. I will be trying to get a forum mod to close this thread now as it has ran it's course.

DocFrost72

Cadbury wrote: »

You were only about 30% Kanye West. So it's all good.

Yo healer i'mma let you finish, but my BoLs are the best heals of ALL TIME.

Just a joke OP, but one thing to try next time is to be a bit less forward. You don't (in my view) want to slam the player, as you took pains to keep saying "I'm not saying you're bad". Just came off a bit...I think someone here said pompous, and that is a good fit.

So all in all, forget aboot it. Those guys/gals will by tomorrow anyway.

Vangy

How I saw the whole thing:

You: dude it seems a role swap might make things faster. Wanna switch roles?
Him: Nope.
You: its cool we can work it out with what we have.
Him: Waah waah you are mean.
You: ?.?
Him: You meanie wah wah

Wipe wipe wipe

You: uhm... thanks guys I think I have to go ( In your mind: jesus ive got better things to do then wipe again on this.)

On a sidenote: you may wanna blot out the names. Might be called for naming and shaming. Not too sure though.