How does pvp here compare to WoW BGs?

bubblebuttboss

I've always felt that WoW's BG's destroy ESO cyrodiil hands down

the problem with cyrodiil is the lag is monstrous, and the map (while large) barely has anything on it to do.

Jaemeson_Foster

Here's what I've gathered so far from playing cyrodiil:

I actually do enjoy it more than BGs. The combat feels more (for lack of a better word) intimate or personal and you feel like you're controlling a soldier functional living hero rather than an avatar.

If you're losing with no hope, or you'd just rather start doing something else, you just drop group and port out. On the other hand, if you really just want to jump in and beat some people up for a little bit on your own schedule, just pop in for 10 minutes and you're done. The fact that it's not so structured lends itself to a more versatile game experience. Though I would absolutely still love to see a bg style pvp system in this game.

If I do start yearning for a structured match that ends in a victory screen and a stat screen etc, I just log onto Heroes of the Storm. I'm in a pretty damn good place in gaming right now

exeeter702

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Here's what I've gathered so far from playing cyrodiil:

I actually do enjoy it more than BGs. The combat feels more (for lack of a better word) intimate or personal and you feel like you're controlling a soldier functional living hero rather than an avatar.

If you're losing with no hope, or you'd just rather start doing something else, you just drop group and port out. On the other hand, if you really just want to jump in and beat some people up for a little bit on your own schedule, just pop in for 10 minutes and you're done. The fact that it's not so structured lends itself to a more versatile game experience. Though I would absolutely still love to see a bg style pvp system in this game.

If I do start yearning for a structured match that ends in a victory screen and a stat screen etc, I just log onto Heroes of the Storm. I'm in a pretty damn good place in gaming right now

Ya except when you spend 20 minutes chasing fights on your horse....

Cyrodiil does not lend itself to quick satisfying skirmishes. You are rolling the dice every time while starring at your mounts backside as much as you are actually getting into engaging and rewarding fights.

Eshelmen

exeeter702 wrote: »

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Here's what I've gathered so far from playing cyrodiil:

I actually do enjoy it more than BGs. The combat feels more (for lack of a better word) intimate or personal and you feel like you're controlling a soldier functional living hero rather than an avatar.

If you're losing with no hope, or you'd just rather start doing something else, you just drop group and port out. On the other hand, if you really just want to jump in and beat some people up for a little bit on your own schedule, just pop in for 10 minutes and you're done. The fact that it's not so structured lends itself to a more versatile game experience. Though I would absolutely still love to see a bg style pvp system in this game.

If I do start yearning for a structured match that ends in a victory screen and a stat screen etc, I just log onto Heroes of the Storm. I'm in a pretty damn good place in gaming right now

Ya except when you spend 20 minutes chasing fights on your horse....

Cyrodiil does not lend itself to quick satisfying skirmishes. You are rolling the dice every time while starring at your mounts backside as much as you are actually getting into engaging and rewarding fights.

A. Max out your speed
B. Always be looking for fight markers and sieges

You'll never have to wait 20 minutes for a fight.

Jaemeson_Foster

exeeter702 wrote: »

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Here's what I've gathered so far from playing cyrodiil:

I actually do enjoy it more than BGs. The combat feels more (for lack of a better word) intimate or personal and you feel like you're controlling a soldier functional living hero rather than an avatar.

If you're losing with no hope, or you'd just rather start doing something else, you just drop group and port out. On the other hand, if you really just want to jump in and beat some people up for a little bit on your own schedule, just pop in for 10 minutes and you're done. The fact that it's not so structured lends itself to a more versatile game experience. Though I would absolutely still love to see a bg style pvp system in this game.

If I do start yearning for a structured match that ends in a victory screen and a stat screen etc, I just log onto Heroes of the Storm. I'm in a pretty damn good place in gaming right now

Ya except when you spend 20 minutes chasing fights on your horse....

Cyrodiil does not lend itself to quick satisfying skirmishes. You are rolling the dice every time while starring at your mounts backside as much as you are actually getting into engaging and rewarding fights.

Oh.. thank you for telling me what I'm experiencing! How could I have been so blind. Thank you for telling me what my in game experience is

exeeter702

Eshelmen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Here's what I've gathered so far from playing cyrodiil:

I actually do enjoy it more than BGs. The combat feels more (for lack of a better word) intimate or personal and you feel like you're controlling a soldier functional living hero rather than an avatar.

If you're losing with no hope, or you'd just rather start doing something else, you just drop group and port out. On the other hand, if you really just want to jump in and beat some people up for a little bit on your own schedule, just pop in for 10 minutes and you're done. The fact that it's not so structured lends itself to a more versatile game experience. Though I would absolutely still love to see a bg style pvp system in this game.

If I do start yearning for a structured match that ends in a victory screen and a stat screen etc, I just log onto Heroes of the Storm. I'm in a pretty damn good place in gaming right now

Ya except when you spend 20 minutes chasing fights on your horse....

Cyrodiil does not lend itself to quick satisfying skirmishes. You are rolling the dice every time while starring at your mounts backside as much as you are actually getting into engaging and rewarding fights.

A. Max out your speed
B. Always be looking for fight markers and sieges

You'll never have to wait 20 minutes for a fight.

Oh no doubt.... you are absolutely right it generally never takes more than 20 mins to find pvp "activity".

exeeter702

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Here's what I've gathered so far from playing cyrodiil:

I actually do enjoy it more than BGs. The combat feels more (for lack of a better word) intimate or personal and you feel like you're controlling a soldier functional living hero rather than an avatar.

If you're losing with no hope, or you'd just rather start doing something else, you just drop group and port out. On the other hand, if you really just want to jump in and beat some people up for a little bit on your own schedule, just pop in for 10 minutes and you're done. The fact that it's not so structured lends itself to a more versatile game experience. Though I would absolutely still love to see a bg style pvp system in this game.

If I do start yearning for a structured match that ends in a victory screen and a stat screen etc, I just log onto Heroes of the Storm. I'm in a pretty damn good place in gaming right now

Ya except when you spend 20 minutes chasing fights on your horse....

Cyrodiil does not lend itself to quick satisfying skirmishes. You are rolling the dice every time while starring at your mounts backside as much as you are actually getting into engaging and rewarding fights.

Oh.. thank you for telling me what I'm experiencing! How could I have been so blind. Thank you for telling me what my in game experience is

It was a general statement, not an assumption of your experiences in game. It was worded facetiously, nothing more.

Eshelmen

edit*

mrdankles

I think wow bgs and arenas are awesome. Cyrodiil is cool, mostly just a horse riding simulator

Cody

The last time I played WoW PvP at all, which was two years ago, people could be ridiculously powerful at lower levels due to heirlooms, which I thought was complete nonsense. However that is minor, and honestly not the point (why did i bring that in? I have no idea:D remember, my power level is barely that of Raditz, so my sense is very low as well) now I have not played WoW since then, but I have watched friends play it, and its combat system is mostly the same from my observations. Cooldowns and the like.

In terms of combat systems and mechanics, ESO is vastly superior. The lack of cooldowns allows for fast paced, action filled combat, which can be very fun and exciting once you get thru all the issues (which I will dsicuss next)

now the bad of ESO PvP:

Lag. Learn it, live it, love it.

lack of class balance: Sorcerers and Nightblades> Dragonknights> Templars. Templars are almost useless, and in fact, if they did not have superior heals they WOULD be useless, both in PvE AND PvP, poor things. their power levels have gone down to the level of Krillin, err, has been the level of Krillin. A bugged gap closer, heals that will not target them(:() low DPS, and many other issues more experienced templars can describe. Dragonknights are OK, but Nightblades and Sorcerers are much better.

Broken resource management. It is very possible to get an " infinite resource build" in ESO PvP, where one has such a high regen that it is almost impossible for them to run out of resources. This, combined with the lack of softcaps and other things, allows one to get either such high damage that they can literally 3 shot people in open combat, so much regen that they will almost never run out of resources, or a mix of both. It can be frustrating at times.

Overall though, ESOs PvP is better, despite these issues. WoW's cooldown system made it slow and clunky, and classes are restricted on what gear they can use, whereas any class can use any type of gear in ESO, which allows for more build/player freedom and diversity.

Bodycounter

Since WoW died in my opinion with WoD and the huge lack of content, almost every MMO is currently better. Most players just have invested too much time into WoW to change or are kept because nostalgica.

What ESO PvP offers:
- Better combat system (no cooldowns, no tabtargetting, active dodging/blocking/ccbreaking, autoattacks do matter and are manually executed, etc.)
- Better class and leveling system (way more variations possible, class does not define your playstyle)
- DLC solely for PvP purposes

What ESO PvP lacks:
- Softcaps (some may argue, but ressource management and ressource stacking has gone too far --> resulting in infinite ressource or one-shot builds)
- Good balancing (Zenimax has huge problems in this area)
- Laggs and performance issues (can't handle the zerg...)

So, is ESO better than WoW: Yes, it is. WoW has gotten really old, everyone has literally the same skills (cooldown based) and the same items. Generic builds fight generic build with tabtargetted system. Completely non-active combat if you will. But: ESO still has huge problems. Imo it has better Content and at least Zenimax tries to regulary patch this game. Blizzard has pretty much given up on WoD and you have to wait for Legion (the non-active combat will never change, though).

Tankqull

Millerman34n wrote: »

Eso has the best combat system ever so I stick around.

debatable...
* no positioning required (attacks from side, back etc. are completly missing)
* no usefull targeting possible - first objekt in a line from the camera centre towards the reticle is chosen if thats someone behind you your bad...
* watered down amount of abilities to create uniqueness
* ridiculous OP smarthealing (especially with the targetting issues and far to hughe target boxes) wich is a bane if you try to heal yourself (and i´m saying this as someone maining healers since 2000)

to summ it up its a watered down standart combat system.
want to see a great combat system test black desert online - that is skillfull.

Hammy01

Just my two cents....

I for one would kill to go back and play some classic Alterac valley and even today I still think about resubbing to WoW just so I can hang out in AV.

As for the PVP in ESO... well it was very fun for awhile but it gets very repetitive, you pretty much do the same thing night after night after night.

I for one think that if ESO would create a BG of a scaled down Cyrodil (say maybe one large keep with multiple objectives) and made that 10vs10vs10 and or 25vs25vs25 or even 40vs40vs40 I would play that non stop. The realm that captured the keep would win that BG and or the realm that was highest on points at the end of a certain time limit would win. Participants would get reward tokens based on the outcome... 1st = 5, 2nd =3 and 3rd = 1. The tokens of course can be used to purchase a copious amount of items such as gear, weapons, food, potions or even special PvP mounts.

Yeah now that I am thinking about it.. I really miss having battle grounds that I can log in and play for a couple of hours each night but I also love me some large scale RvRvR battles and ESO could become all of that if they just try a little harder!!

Hammy01

Sunah wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

However, unless things have changed, every one of WoWs pvp modes are timed. Whether it be time, all enemies are destroyed or objective is completed, it all eventually ends and you have to requeue to do it again. In ESO, the fight always continues..until you either get kicked for being idle too long OR campaign ends, but you don't get booted, the scores just reset.

This IMO is a huge bonus to ESO.

Things are timed because of the constant complaining of everyone back in the days. We use to have hour long AV fights. One time I played for 7 hours in an AV, logged off and went to sleep only to log back in to the SAME one. I believe that fight lasted almost 3 days. But because of this people who only had time for like an hour or 2 of game time were crying because they never got to finish it.

Now the game ENCOURAGES you to finish runs and BGs quicker.. They give achievement's for it... Back to AV, now when you run an AV you can literally finish a WHOLE run in less than 10 mins easy... I think the achievement was 6 mins? But that means no objectives are being done(objectives are crazy fun)... less honor is farmed.... less fun.... more queue times.

SOooooooo... in the end its US the people who cried and cried and criedddd to blizzard to do something.. and they did... And of course many people were happy about he change because the majority of the gamers were casual gamers who were only on for a few hours a day.

I for one remember the really long AV matches, I joined about 3 months prior to Burning Crusade so the long matches I am talking about only 3 or 4 hours max. I also quit after Cata so I don't know anything about achievements for 6 min runs but I do remember most matches only lasting 10 to 15 minutes unless someone turtled or actually played defense (:):) my favorite!!).

Also as far as I remember the main reason behind people wanting shorter matches was due to time vs reward. That game was very gear driven and win or lose it was still faster to get gear via 10 minute matches than it was via 4 hour matches but in my opinion the 10 minute matches were nowhere near as fun!!

DaveMoeDee

Soris wrote: »

Without good class balance, arenas will not be good.

I don't think they can't really balance classes for arenas and also balance them for PvE and large scale PvP and MA. If your build isn't good for arenas, they are best off telling you to "deal with it".

Adding this game mode to provide a separate instance to those who want small scale should not also result in messing with all the other game modes that they actually based the game design on. MA has already been difficult enough to make work with all classes. The inevitable balance problems were probably the best justification for initially saying there were no plans to implement arenas. Imagine all the complaining posts that will fill this forum the day arenas go live...

Hammy01

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Without good class balance, arenas will not be good.

I don't think they can't really balance classes for arenas and also balance them for PvE and large scale PvP and MA. If your build isn't good for arenas, they are best off telling you to "deal with it".

Adding this game mode to provide a separate instance to those who want small scale should not also result in messing with all the other game modes that they actually based the game design on. MA has already been difficult enough to make work with all classes. The inevitable balance problems were probably the best justification for initially saying there were no plans to implement arenas. Imagine all the complaining posts that will fill this forum the day arenas go live...

Actually they could balance classes for arena... they just need to give everyone default gear based on your class (IE Stam Sorc or Mag Sorc, Stam Blade or Mag Blade.. etc) and then it would just come down to ones build and actual skill as to who wins. Oh and maybe a cap on CP or brackets based on CP or no CP at all.

DaveMoeDee

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

My final point in this: I just logged into my "Veteran account" in WoW (the free level 20 account) and played one of my old level 20s in some bgs. Wow, that game is just not as much fun as it used to be especially after playing in Cyrodiil. I kept left clicking to bring my weapon up xD I think this game is really solidified as my replacement for wow

After you mentioned free access, I decided to download WoW to try the game. I probably won't touch PvP, but I'm curious about the game in general.

Jaemeson_Foster

Hammy01 wrote: »

Just my two cents....

I for one would kill to go back and play some classic Alterac valley and even today I still think about resubbing to WoW just so I can hang out in AV.

As for the PVP in ESO... well it was very fun for awhile but it gets very repetitive, you pretty much do the same thing night after night after night.

I for one think that if ESO would create a BG of a scaled down Cyrodil (say maybe one large keep with multiple objectives) and made that 10vs10vs10 and or 25vs25vs25 or even 40vs40vs40 I would play that non stop. The realm that captured the keep would win that BG and or the realm that was highest on points at the end of a certain time limit would win. Participants would get reward tokens based on the outcome... 1st = 5, 2nd =3 and 3rd = 1. The tokens of course can be used to purchase a copious amount of items such as gear, weapons, food, potions or even special PvP mounts.

Yeah now that I am thinking about it.. I really miss having battle grounds that I can log in and play for a couple of hours each night but I also love me some large scale RvRvR battles and ESO could become all of that if they just try a little harder!!

Well good news if you don't know this: they are adding structured pvp in the future

Bodycounter

Tankqull wrote: »

* no usefull targeting possible - first objekt in a line from the camera centre towards the reticle is chosen if thats someone behind you your bad...
* watered down amount of abilities to create uniqueness

To "useful" targeting: I really think it's a good design how it is. You shouldn't be able to ignore a frontline completely and shoot through them to hit a caster. That is not how realistic combat should work. In WoW for example: Everyone can tab-target the healer and he has to live with that stupid focus. In ESO you can actually block the LoS to squishy targets if you want to. Makes the combat much more in depth and enjoyable for me at least...

nwstud31b14_ESO

I wish this game had Battlegrounds similar to those found in Dark Age of Camelot.

While I love world PvP, I personally find the map of Cyrodiil to be too large. You end up spending more time traveling than you do fighting.

KatzMainTank

WoW is mature in it's balancing so they win in that department. ESO is still very young, so ZoS is still making some infantile mistakes. The combat system in ESO, as others have stated, is awesome. It's simplistic and easy to learn. There are some lag issues that remain not only in the larger number fights, but the small scale and even 1v1 as well. That will only fade in time unfortunately.

To keep it simple I would say if you want a reliable BG experience that is rewarding AND has ton of replay value, WoW wins hands down. The only downside is catching up with gear and getting used to the vast choices and mechanics.

If you want a BG experience that is more casual with it's feel, ESO is the way to go. The zerging is reminiscent of Diablo with PVP, hack and slash and what not. Occasionally you'll have an intense experience but they are few. However, ESO really shines on the smaller scale of PVP and can be just as fun if not BETTER than WoW at times!

This is where ESO is on the fence of what it wants to do with PVP. I'm all for large & small scale, but again ESO is young. The game probably won't appeal in the PvP aspect to people until it's a few more years down the line when ZoS has their sh!t together.

Hawco10

Lots of fights to be found, always people defending something or attacking something, good group play and usually a good laugh.
Just don't take it all too seriously and just have some fun..