Stop the reviving game!

DHale

Forward camps had ppl back in the fight faaarrrrr faster than kags plus assualt support plus Templar ever did. Wow you are in for a rude awakening. Noobs can't live with them can't kill them fast enough.

Junipus

themdogesbite wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

I thought Astrum Herois were the uber leets who didn't have a problem playing in 12 man raids against 40+ people.

Don't really see how this is different to camps both when they come back and as they were before. At least now you don't have the problem of wiping a whole raid only to see them all coming back at you 10 seconds later and again and again.

Might I suggest you enlist a few NBs to shadow you and kill/stop ressers after you've moved through the main group?

Over the past 2 - 3 days on Azura EU we have had plenty of keep fights lasting 20 - 30 min plus, from fighting only inside the inner keep, due to combat ressing...

With camps, we had the option to "reappear" as much as the enemies had, with combat ressing this is not the case, if we kill peopel on 2nd flag and then move upstairs to clear oils etc, peopel will jump down to the 2nd flagg and ress, then run back upstatirs to ress etc, it don't end until finaly we get completely swarmed by the people we already killed 10+ times.

Hence my suggestion of NBs (doesn't have to be, but they're generally best suited) to shadow the main group and pick off those ressing.

Alternatively can coordinate with another group to go in opposite directions killing everything until you meet in the middle. Not how some groups play I know, but you adapt or falter.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

If they change resing to what the OP wants, it will be another case of PvPer concerns screwing up PvE play once again. Many players running trials or group dungeons would never servive the resurrection changes the OP wants.

Alucardo

I hate those stealth rez's. Was fighting a Nightblade and DK. I killed the DK and then the NB stealthed off around the corner. Didn't bother chasing, coz NB.
While I'm standing there checking my mail I see a rez line on the DK in the corner of my eye. Even though I could see the line, I couldn't see the NB trying to res him, so I couldn't even gap close to get there faster. By the time I reached her he was already resurrected and back in the fight.
I'd be happy if they took out resurrection in Imperial City. In Cyrodiil it's a little different because you have further to travel, but there should be a cooldown on how often you can get rezzed. The more often you get rezzed in a certain amount of time, the higher the cooldown should be. Like, there should be some penalty to death, surely

themdogesbite

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

I thought Astrum Herois were the uber leets who didn't have a problem playing in 12 man raids against 40+ people.

Don't really see how this is different to camps both when they come back and as they were before. At least now you don't have the problem of wiping a whole raid only to see them all coming back at you 10 seconds later and again and again.

Might I suggest you enlist a few NBs to shadow you and kill/stop ressers after you've moved through the main group?

Over the past 2 - 3 days on Azura EU we have had plenty of keep fights lasting 20 - 30 min plus, from fighting only inside the inner keep, due to combat ressing...

With camps, we had the option to "reappear" as much as the enemies had, with combat ressing this is not the case, if we kill peopel on 2nd flag and then move upstairs to clear oils etc, peopel will jump down to the 2nd flagg and ress, then run back upstatirs to ress etc, it don't end until finaly we get completely swarmed by the people we already killed 10+ times.

Hence my suggestion of NBs (doesn't have to be, but they're generally best suited) to shadow the main group and pick off those ressing.

Alternatively can coordinate with another group to go in opposite directions killing everything until you meet in the middle. Not how some groups play I know, but you adapt or falter.

Or you try to change mechanics in the game which are blatently bad and will probably provide a better experiance for everybody. People complained about camps cause they made it so death had no penalty. Beeing able to infinetly ress is causeing the same problem. Imo a cooldown adds risk towards dieying.

But since this is the ESO PvP community, i'm not suprised that more numbers is one of the solutions you present. Thats the mentality that needs to change, badly.

themdogesbite

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they change resing to what the OP wants, it will be another case of PvPer concerns screwing up PvE play once again. Many players running trials or group dungeons would never servive the resurrection changes the OP wants.

The ress changes could probably be added into battle spirit and thus not affecting carebear land at all.

phillyproduct

Why would we want this it makes game play in cyrodil slower than what it already is you bump into someone then then yall fight someone dies and then gets res now their out the battle for a whole minute or they can take 4 minutes to ride back from another keep

Junipus

themdogesbite wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

I thought Astrum Herois were the uber leets who didn't have a problem playing in 12 man raids against 40+ people.

Don't really see how this is different to camps both when they come back and as they were before. At least now you don't have the problem of wiping a whole raid only to see them all coming back at you 10 seconds later and again and again.

Might I suggest you enlist a few NBs to shadow you and kill/stop ressers after you've moved through the main group?

Over the past 2 - 3 days on Azura EU we have had plenty of keep fights lasting 20 - 30 min plus, from fighting only inside the inner keep, due to combat ressing...

With camps, we had the option to "reappear" as much as the enemies had, with combat ressing this is not the case, if we kill peopel on 2nd flag and then move upstairs to clear oils etc, peopel will jump down to the 2nd flagg and ress, then run back upstatirs to ress etc, it don't end until finaly we get completely swarmed by the people we already killed 10+ times.

Hence my suggestion of NBs (doesn't have to be, but they're generally best suited) to shadow the main group and pick off those ressing.

Alternatively can coordinate with another group to go in opposite directions killing everything until you meet in the middle. Not how some groups play I know, but you adapt or falter.

Or you try to change mechanics in the game which are blatently bad and will probably provide a better experiance for everybody. People complained about camps cause they made it so death had no penalty. Beeing able to infinetly ress is causeing the same problem. Imo a cooldown adds risk towards dieying.

But since this is the ESO PvP community, i'm not suprised that more numbers is one of the solutions you present. Thats the mentality that needs to change, badly.

Once they introduce Arenas or something small scale then you can have that opinion and I'll agree with you. But viewing more numbers as a bad thing and wanting changes that favour small organised groups again will kill the game faster than ZOS are. The game is designed towards giving everyone an entertaining, fun experience where everyone can contribute to PvP and help win fights. Small organised groups still play like yourselves and in 2.2 as in 1.6, help greatly with taking objectives or giving pugs someone to rally around when going into breaches or wiping enemy groups.

Adding a cool down to ressing serves the exact same purpose as complaining about camps and having them removed. Changing game mechanics to provide a better experience for the minority is how things got this bad in the first place.

RadioheadSh0t

Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies.

That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute.

That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

@Hexys
@Wrobel
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

sphane

No thanks. Complain of 12 men hardcore blobbers Who have great knowledge on what to use against noob and less experienced players zerg. Only counter is number and rezing is helping to put your play style down. You dont like it ? Deal with it ! At the en end or the day, you Will continue to kill far more opponents than you Will Die against a big natural zerg Who is growing by rezing.

Fast rez is necessary for real small scale, where losing one member matters.

olsborg

A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

Excellent suggestion here.

Islyn

themdogesbite wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they change resing to what the OP wants, it will be another case of PvPer concerns screwing up PvE play once again. Many players running trials or group dungeons would never servive the resurrection changes the OP wants.

The ress changes could probably be added into battle spirit and thus not affecting carebear land at all.

Lol how so many of you guys say carebear and have a hard time clearing the easiest stuff. Also? It's not the 'carebears' always trying to get everyone else nerfed because 'Boo hoo we can't hang with being unable to one shot everything.' And 'wahhh they're rezzing too fassst *petulant foot stamp*'

From now on imma call pvpers carebears since they're the ones always crying *all the time* for Nerfs.

I mean seriously? Doesn't the constant whinging about everyone and everything else being too harrd and Ohh Peeee make YOU GUYS the carebeary ones?

I rather think it does.

Or: we could just stop trying to insult each other all the time to get a point across. That would also be cool.

Islyn

On another note, pvp with all its crazy; Forward Camps, Ground Oil, Mercenaries etc used to be so much fun. There was stuff for everyone to do and it was awesome.

Pvp now sucks so bad soooo bad now by comparison.

How is it really any fun to just pew pew one shot everything you see?

The thing is though, zos listening to pvpers is really what broke pvp.

RadioheadSh0t

Islyn wrote: »

On another note, pvp with all its crazy; Forward Camps, Ground Oil, Mercenaries etc used to be so much fun. There was stuff for everyone to do and it was awesome.

Pvp now sucks so bad soooo bad now by comparison.

How is it really any fun to just pew pew one shot everything you see?

The thing is though, zos listening to pvpers is really what broke pvp.

This statement is completely out of touch with reality.

Sheezabeast

This suggestion is kinda silly. Adding time to res just means healers will be targeted even more, and will res even slower. Why not compromise and have it cost 2 soul gems to res someone who has died in the past 15 minutes (or other amount of time) so there is still a penalty but not one that will make light armor healers suffer more than we already do

Hexys

Thanks for sharing more opinions and suggestions! I added the suggestions from @themdogesbite and @RadioheadSh0t to the first post.

Docmandu

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they change resing to what the OP wants, it will be another case of PvPer concerns screwing up PvE play once again. Many players running trials or group dungeons would never servive the resurrection changes the OP wants.

People have to stop blaming XX for YY... once they remove PvP, you will blame Argonians, then DKs wearing blue, until there's only 1 master race left.... now where have we seen this before...


.. that said.. didn't really read the OPs wall of text...

Hawco10

Hexys wrote: »

It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

Suggestion @Hexys
A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

Suggestion @Grippz
Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

Suggestion @Solariken
They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

Suggestion @themdogesbite
First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

A lot of us got to Cryodil for the fights believe it or not, so anything that keeps fights going on is usually a good thing.......

Leandor

Well, since we seem to progress into constructive discussion, I'll throw in my €0.02:

Ressurection timers in the range of 5 minutes are way too long in my view. Either it's a "front line fight", which means you could run back in 30 seconds (assuming 60 speed horse), or you are back capping deep in enemy territory. For both, a 5 min timer means you're out of the fight completely. Aside from some select lag battles for key keeps, no fight lasts 5 minutes nowadays.

I'd rather have the rez itself take longer. If a player has not died in the last 5 minutes, rez time is as it is now. All reductions apply. If a player died once in the last 5 minutes, rez takes 30 seconds but all reductions still apply (meaning a templar with kag, passive and battle 2 resses in 8 seconds, plenty time to interrupt). If a player died twice or more in the last 5 minutes, rez takes 30 seconds and no passives apply.

Last stage lasts until the player in question has not died in 5 mimutes.

The mechanic could be applied similar to vampire stages.

As to the forward camps: let's wait and see what exactly comes from their re-implememtation before we change them. One solution would be that you can only rez at a camp if the camp was placed before you died. But that is deep in not-totally-thought-through-territory.

Cogo

There is no problem with res. They only want "faster" Cyro. Like caping empty keeps would be "Cyro".

Everyone else who has no idea what the OP is talking about, all know how to take keeps and stop the enemy from resing.

The long siege battles are the CORE of Cyro. This post is only about one thing, they think they get faster AP and win faster EMP if ZoS makes it harder for the enemy to fight back.

EMP is supposed to be a hard thing to grab. There are empty campaigns for those who wants it that way.

There is already ways to make combat faster. Team work, experience and personal skill are few tips. Asking ZoS to make it easier FOR you, is not.

skarvika

Yusuf wrote: »

What, so that we can all play horse-simulator? No thank you

Pretty much my sentiments. I'd agree with you OP if it didn't take several minutes minimum to get from point a to point b on a fully upgraded speed mount with rapid maneuver.

Tankqull

i do not see the need of any changes with tents being reintroduced...

its just doesent matter if they are back within 5sec by releasing to the tent 50m away or are being rezzed.

Hexys

Cogo wrote: »

There is no problem with res. They only want "faster" Cyro. Like caping empty keeps would be "Cyro".

Everyone else who has no idea what the OP is talking about, all know how to take keeps and stop the enemy from resing.

The long siege battles are the CORE of Cyro. This post is only about one thing, they think they get faster AP and win faster EMP if ZoS makes it harder for the enemy to fight back.

EMP is supposed to be a hard thing to grab. There are empty campaigns for those who wants it that way.

There is already ways to make combat faster. Team work, experience and personal skill are few tips. Asking ZoS to make it easier FOR you, is not.

I will explain you why this post was made by me. We (Astrum Herois) are playing as a very organised guild with experienced players that focus on individual performance. We have the skill and knowledge to take down even and larger groups, that is our challenge and what we are seeking in Cyrodiil. Winning a campaign, taking keeps or gaining an emperor is far behond our minds, all we want is competitive and nice PvP fights. Alliance Points is also not an important point for us, this will come by itself with nice PvP.

There are guilds out there that actually have players assigned to do really fast rezzing, I mean, are you going in PvP expecting to die and use this in your advantage towards an end to win a fight without any honour? Let's not forget the unbalances between the numbersgame.

But again it comes down to Competitive VS. Casual.

dodgehopper_ESO

I don't mind them nerfing Battle Resuscitation but in its stead I'd like to see my Templar passive improved. Templar passives are really bad when compared to any class, and effectively making yet another of our passives worse by sweeping changes to the game is not good. This already happened to Templar/DK with the changes to health multiplier (Sun Shield, GDB, Obsidian Shield), nerf to blocking regeneration (wrecking efficacy of the block passives of DK & Templar), and so forth. It is about time they did something to actually enhance Templar passives for a change, and no Major Mending is not an enhancement, it is bringing the class back to more or less where it was earlier on in the game. except now you have to cast something to get the same benefit. I will say that I like the Major Mending changes to the class, and I think it was a good move which should benefit all 3 roles of Templar (as well as DK). The point I'm making is that there has been an awful lot of 'take' from the devs on the Templar class, and a whole lot of no 'give' coming back. Most of these class updates for Templar have been one step forward and two steps back at best, and sometimes that one step forward is more like a shuffle. I could go into a whole discussion on how the way cc immunity works amounted to a gigantic nerf to the Templar class that was never properly resolved, even with the removal of Blinding Flashes or the placement of a snare on Jabs (a slight improvement that still has costs associated with it). Templar is a flawed class, which is why Stamplar more than any other class (including Stamina Sorcs) operates best with very few class skills.

Junipus

Hexys wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

There is no problem with res. They only want "faster" Cyro. Like caping empty keeps would be "Cyro".

Everyone else who has no idea what the OP is talking about, all know how to take keeps and stop the enemy from resing.

The long siege battles are the CORE of Cyro. This post is only about one thing, they think they get faster AP and win faster EMP if ZoS makes it harder for the enemy to fight back.

EMP is supposed to be a hard thing to grab. There are empty campaigns for those who wants it that way.

There is already ways to make combat faster. Team work, experience and personal skill are few tips. Asking ZoS to make it easier FOR you, is not.

But again it comes down to Competitive VS. Casual.

And it makes business sense, commercial sense and common sense to change game mechanics to benefit the smaller number of competitive players?

It would be more productive to add your voice to the number of players wanting special areas for small scale PvP like Arenas etc so you can have GvG play and test your competitiveness.

At least we know ZOS won't listen to such suggestions and so this is all pointless shouting into the wind.

Duiwel

I am so glad I just read something about forward camps coming back ( I still have 2 in my bank from 2014 which I never used )

So glad they are coming back

Also OP

While I agree with your post I also disagree on some points
Finding a way to balance this suggestion is going to be hella hard.

I think people would go afk if there was a delay in the res ( which could lead to being logged out by the game for inactivity ) since this game has a really quick kick for afk system.

I would LOVE to see everyone calling for this res sickness thing to actually be affected by it and then I promise you the next day you will see 100+ forum posts calling to remove this feature as it causes grief.

I understand the frustration OP believe me ( I have been there ) but as I said perhaps our suggestions in here are a tad extreme. However they are constructive and could cause inspiration for the actual and eventual solution

Septimus_Magna

The core problem is the unlimited number of times that players can get ressed. Even with the normal res time large numbers have a huge advantage because you can res players faster than you can kill them.

This problem only gets exaggerated by the short res times, which is obtainable without sacrificing anything.

To solve this problem it should be addressed at the core, not the factor that makes the problem more visible.
There are a couple different ways this can be solved:

The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.

The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

The second solution would probably be the most fair solution but it could be difficult to determine the right number of Souls in the Reservoir.

Hexys

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The core problem is the unlimited number of times that players can get ressed. Even with the normal res time large numbers have a huge advantage because you can res players faster than you can kill them.

^ This!

I added both your suggestions to the first post!

DHale

I want to sincerely thank you guys I have been remembering who qqs on the forum about battle rezzzing. I just stopped rezzzing you. I have a Templar with kags. I even got a whisper from one of you last night. I whispered you back you don't want battle rezzes run back I was told to F off. You never did get rezzed did you that was my guild and told them not to Rez you. I will save my soul gem for ppl I know and will not risk my time and life on someone who would rather horse ride. Make sure you feed your horse every day.

NBrookus

Hexys wrote: »

There are guilds out there that actually have players assigned to do really fast rezzing, I mean, are you going in PvP expecting to die and use this in your advantage towards an end to win a fight without any honour? Let's not forget the unbalances between the numbersgame.

But again it comes down to Competitive VS. Casual.

So because they don't have the same playstyle as you, they are "Casual" and "without any honor?"

Guilds that assign teammates to specific tasks are not hacking, exploiting or cheating in any way - they are utilizing individual player strengths to achieve an objective. I'm going to guess they call that being "Competitive."