Stop the reviving game!

Hexys · February 2016

It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

Suggestion @Hexys
A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

Suggestion @Lastobeth
Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

Suggestion @Solariken
They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

Suggestion @themdogesbite
First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
- The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
- The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

Suggestion @Sanct16
How about we just remove dieing completly as it looks like the majority of the players prefers death being meaningless anyway, so why waste soul gems? We all love randomly smashing buttons without having to worry about anything.

Think about it: You will never have to ride back to the battle on your horse, you wont get frustrated because you died, new players can learn the game without dieing all the time... Wouldnt that be perfect?

/irony

Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

Yusuf · February 2016

What, so that we can all play horse-simulator? No thank you

Hexys · February 2016

Yusuf wrote: »

What, so that we can all play horse-simulator? No thank you

Haha good point! But this is nothing compared to the issue right now in Cyrodill with the endless reviving.

heystreethawk · February 2016

They're changing the resurrection bonuses in the TG patch to be multiplicative instead of additive, IIRC. The problem will be mitigated, rather than being made worse by the ease of getting the passives

Takes-No-Prisoner · February 2016

Let's see what happens with the next patch and come back to this topic then. Right now, if the individuals res'ing already aren't a Templar and/or don't have Kagnerac's on, the delay on ress'ing is still long enough for interrupts. Especially if you played a v3 Sorc with Assault/Support 4 like I did yesterday and try to res. Felt like forever to res someone.

As a whole though on this topic, delay needs to be noticeable enough to react too despite class/gear set up. This seems like that what the nerf is aiming towards next patch. One little caveat I have to that--

If you're in a group, and your engaging enemies, it is your responsibility to nuke interrupts on enemies ress'ing their allies. If your group fails to do that, they deserve to get the res up. Shame on you for not handling that.

Mojmir · February 2016

Lol so we can spend most of our time riding back to the battle? I don't think so

Leandor · February 2016

Don't be sad, next patch will bring back forward camps and no one will give a hoot on rez speed.

Lastobeth · February 2016

Yusuf wrote: »

What, so that we can all play horse-simulator? No thank you

Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

No one is asking you to ride the whole distance back to the fight then. You can be revived, but for the first 30 seconds you have to get yourself to safety and recuperate for a while.

Right now it's beyond ridiculous that you can wipe an entire raid and they're back up in a matter of seconds and there is nothing you can do about it.

Leandor · February 2016

Camp bodies. My main source of AP.

Kidding.

Lastobeth · February 2016

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

If you're in a group, and your engaging enemies, it is your responsibility to nuke interrupts on enemies ress'ing their allies. If your group fails to do that, they deserve to get the res up. Shame on you for not handling that.

Easier said then done, if your preferred style of play is in smaller groups. It takes a templar with CC immunity one second to res and depending on the skills on your bar there is no way to interrupt that unless you can react in less than a second! Additionally, when you are in a small group (say eight people) you often cannot afford to spare the one, two, three people that you need to camp the various spots on which the corpses of your victims are sat.

leepalmer95 · February 2016

Changing from additive to multiplicative and forward camps so... Issue won't be as bad, though everyone will have battle res 2 in a week.

PCheuk38b14_ESO · February 2016

Sir every other faction except DC does combat resses.

Hexys · February 2016

Leandor wrote: »

Don't be sad, next patch will bring back forward camps and no one will give a hoot on rez speed.

The Range from the forward camps is way to small and I hope this will change.

Mojmir wrote: »

Lol so we can spend most of our time riding back to the battle? I don't think so

You can wait a minute untill the fight is over if you look it by my suggestion's point of view. Which means the smaller group who was better in beating outnumbered oponents get their win and you will be able to get the revive after you died twice (in which you should have known to either improve or get away to fight another battle) when the group has left the fight.

Glory · February 2016

Hexys wrote: »

Reviving speed bonuses
At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.
Next patch this is going to be worse, because alot more players will have access to the passive Battle Resurrection II from the Support skilltree.

A good thing is that they changed the rezz speed stack to be multiplicative next patch. Not an end-all fix, but it stops the sub-second rezz.

Takes-No-Prisoner · February 2016

Grippz wrote: »

Easier said then done, if your preferred style of play is in smaller groups. It takes a templar with CC immunity one second to res and depending on the skills on your bar there is no way to interrupt that unless you can react in less than a second! Additionally, when you are in a small group (say eight people) you often cannot afford to spare the one, two, three people that you need to camp the various spots on which the corpses of your victims are sat.

When it comes to smaller groups, there is no beating around the bush--I get this. However, you either have the tools to deal with various situations they run into or you do not. That being said, you have to draw upon your other fellows smart decisions to make up for short comings. But if you are specifically speaking of a Templar ress'ing, then common sense says you DPS him out of the picture yes? I use Unstoppable on my Templar, and specifically cast it for said situations. But that immunity does not last very long. Even if, in today's Cyrodiil, you come upon this situation the Templar could get DPS'ed into the floor even after he gets mate gets up. His mate will get the butt pounding if he gets up quickly.

I wouldn't waste resources camping bodies either. But that kind of theory crafting of, 'Should or Shouldn't I camp bodies' is limited on where this situation occurs. In Keeps you own? You probably have no choice but to camp. In an open field? Leave them for the daisy's~<3

FYI about reaction speed, as an off topic thingy but also related. Street Fighter 4 was notorious for 1 frame links. A 1 frame link is basically a combo of the tricky kind to perform. In short, the game ran at 60fps right? So here is how the 1 frame link translates to; 1 frame = 1/60 of a second. It is technically possible to interrupt a 1 second cast with ungodly speed[granted there is no lag 1.0

], but with the next update we won't need to worry our little heads about it for too much longer me thinks. This is a good thing. Even with all the right sets ups on a Templar, if the speed was somewhere around 3~5 seconds that's definitely enough time to bat him between the eyebrows.

Cody · February 2016

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Let's see what happens with the next patch and come back to this topic then. Right now, if the individuals res'ing already aren't a Templar and/or don't have Kagnerac's on, the delay on ress'ing is still long enough for interrupts. Especially if you played a v3 Sorc with Assault/Support 4 like I did yesterday and try to res. Felt like forever to res someone.

As a whole though on this topic, delay needs to be noticeable enough to react too despite class/gear set up. This seems like that what the nerf is aiming towards next patch. One little caveat I have to that--

If you're in a group, and your engaging enemies, it is your responsibility to nuke interrupts on enemies ress'ing their allies. If your group fails to do that, they deserve to get the res up. Shame on you for not handling that.

not everyone uses venom arrow or crushing shock.

SneaK · February 2016

No need anymore though cause we can just set up forward camps, right?

Solariken · February 2016

They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.

However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

SneaK · February 2016

Solariken wrote: »

They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.

However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

That's an awesome idea.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · February 2016

The ress passives are changed to being multiplicative rather than additive, so that should change it a bit. I'm all for the sickness debuff though. Preferably lower stats and something that prevents you from being ressed straight away while you have it. Like 30s lower stats, and if you die, can't be ressed for another 30s. Respawn at keeps/camps don't give you this debuff ofc.

Hexys · February 2016

Added the suggestions of @Grippz and @Solariken to the first post. The opinions seems to be two-sided, splitted between casual/competitive players. Hope we can find a solution to this for all of us!

tonemd · February 2016

It gives me great joy to revive players in the face of the enemy and get away.

You would deny me this?

ced30 · February 2016

Cody wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Let's see what happens with the next patch and come back to this topic then. Right now, if the individuals res'ing already aren't a Templar and/or don't have Kagnerac's on, the delay on ress'ing is still long enough for interrupts. Especially if you played a v3 Sorc with Assault/Support 4 like I did yesterday and try to res. Felt like forever to res someone.

As a whole though on this topic, delay needs to be noticeable enough to react too despite class/gear set up. This seems like that what the nerf is aiming towards next patch. One little caveat I have to that--

If you're in a group, and your engaging enemies, it is your responsibility to nuke interrupts on enemies ress'ing their allies. If your group fails to do that, they deserve to get the res up. Shame on you for not handling that.

not everyone uses venom arrow or crushing shock.

Everyone can bash, right?

Level66Charizard · February 2016

Resurrection sickness debuff when revived unless they go to npc priest in cryodiil/IC to cure.

Half damage/heals is the debuff until cured

americansteel · February 2016

learn2res?

Docmandu · February 2016

Rez sickness debuff and a much slower rez speed, but with a passive to give you 1 fast rez every XX minutes.

Though PvE folks probably have a different idea... can see that a slow rez might cause issues in Dungeons / Trials.. so it would require some more work to not impact that gameplay.

themdogesbite · February 2016

I still think a cooldown is the way to go, it wont penelise any class passives / anyone wearing a set for the intention to be able to ress faster and it also wont penelise people for unlocking new passives. What it will do is creating the choice for players to either lay down and wait out their timer, or run back to the action instead.

First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

Pretty quickly the better option is to run back from your keep instead of laying arround waiting. You get a generous "free" resurect but after that the punishment is severe. This also make ressurection valueble, since you wont play as carelessly due to beeing able to ress infinite ammount of times without any penelty to it.

No class get punished, no passives get screwed over. Ressing / deaths gets a diffrent value and promotes smarter playing.

Cogo · February 2016

Resing is a skill, which pvpers didn't learn before Camps was removed.

You claim that you fight against larger numbers and your problem is the 5 you leave, who res the 40 you wiped?

I believe that you take on bigger numbers. I don't believe for a second that you have a problem with them ressing. Add your real reason and maybe I even agree with you.

Junipus · February 2016

I thought Astrum Herois were the uber leets who didn't have a problem playing in 12 man raids against 40+ people.

Don't really see how this is different to camps both when they come back and as they were before. At least now you don't have the problem of wiping a whole raid only to see them all coming back at you 10 seconds later and again and again.

Might I suggest you enlist a few NBs to shadow you and kill/stop ressers after you've moved through the main group?

Cogo · February 2016

Cody wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Let's see what happens with the next patch and come back to this topic then. Right now, if the individuals res'ing already aren't a Templar and/or don't have Kagnerac's on, the delay on ress'ing is still long enough for interrupts. Especially if you played a v3 Sorc with Assault/Support 4 like I did yesterday and try to res. Felt like forever to res someone.

As a whole though on this topic, delay needs to be noticeable enough to react too despite class/gear set up. This seems like that what the nerf is aiming towards next patch. One little caveat I have to that--

If you're in a group, and your engaging enemies, it is your responsibility to nuke interrupts on enemies ress'ing their allies. If your group fails to do that, they deserve to get the res up. Shame on you for not handling that.

not everyone uses venom arrow or crushing shock.

Some using the OP bash button.

themdogesbite · February 2016

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

I thought Astrum Herois were the uber leets who didn't have a problem playing in 12 man raids against 40+ people.

Don't really see how this is different to camps both when they come back and as they were before. At least now you don't have the problem of wiping a whole raid only to see them all coming back at you 10 seconds later and again and again.

Might I suggest you enlist a few NBs to shadow you and kill/stop ressers after you've moved through the main group?

Over the past 2 - 3 days on Azura EU we have had plenty of keep fights lasting 20 - 30 min plus, from fighting only inside the inner keep, due to combat ressing...

With camps, we had the option to "reappear" as much as the enemies had, with combat ressing this is not the case, if we kill peopel on 2nd flag and then move upstairs to clear oils etc, peopel will jump down to the 2nd flagg and ress, then run back upstatirs to ress etc, it don't end until finaly we get completely swarmed by the people we already killed 10+ times.