Magelight and Piercing Mark will lock out Shadow Cloak in PvP with Thieves Guild DLC

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Nightblade players need to be aware, re-posting this here..

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
» show previous quotes
That is intended, and follows the same concept as Magelight: you shouldn't be able to cloak if you are revealed. Once revealed, you shouldn't be able to re-cloak or re-stealth.

So you are saying that Magelight and Piercing Mark now will lock out the Shadow Cloak (and its morphs) ability for 5 secs, as will Piercing Mark for like 20-30 secs, which means everyone on the battlefield will now see the Nightblade and can be used indefinitely to maintain every 4 secs for Magelight and every 20 secs or more for piercing mark!!!! this is unacceptable, this is nerfing Nightblades in PvP too much, there are already counters available for use. No ability should lock out a class ability, also the AvA skill line exp is being lowered and alot more people will have access to Revealing Flare (and its morphs), not including all the other counters available.

Stealth I can understand, locking out a Class Ability (Shadow Cloak) that has passives tied to it is way too much, Fix it..

Note- from PTS patch notes, post: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2701171/#Comment_2701171

main thread,

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/247847/magelight-and-piercing-mark-will-lock-out-shadow-cloak-in-thieves-guild-dlc

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Let me Elaborate,

all the passives (Shadow Barrier) and the Changed Shadow Cloak ability to bypass Dots (and the morph’s of 8% damage reduction for 5 sec’s from Dark Cloak, and the 100% Crit’ chance while in Cloak..) will be locked out, the Ability now greys out and cannot be used for 5 sec’s if discovered by Magelight.. Also know that a ball of the light will appear over the Nightblades head for that duration letting everyone know he cannot go back to sneak or use Shadow Cloak while PvP’ing.. also I forgot to add that Piercing Mark (Morph of Mark Target) will also lock out Cloak as well for 30 sec’s..

Looks like ZOS will institute this change in the Thieves Guild DLC.. please advise everyone you know in Game who plays a Nightblade of this Change so we can get ZOS to change it back..

Lokey0024

NomnomnomNom....no, go on, tell me again how unfair it is. NOMNOMNOMnomNoM

TheBull

Yeah it's all lame man.

You know how to F all this stuff? Open harder my friend. Open harder.

revonine

Lokey0024 wrote: »

NomnomnomNom....no, go on, tell me again how unfair it is. NOMNOMNOMnomNoM

Oh? Please tell us what class you play? You know the nerf criers will be looking for another target after this THEY ALWAYS DO as the FOTM is about to switch after this update. Your class might be next.

Lorkhan

i think the nerf to shadow cloak was too strong because it wont clean the dots.
with the siege buff, this will be a hard punch to the class

Faasnu

I like all the new changes to the nightblade. I'm playing one vr16 in PVP and I rarely use shadow cloak anyways. I love piercing mark, though, and I love catching other nightblades with it. I don't think these changes are unfair. A Nightblade constantly going into stealth during 1vs1 fight is more annoying than bolting sorcerer, especially when such nightblade is harmless and just keeps annoying you with jumping in and out of stealth. Anyway, if you are not using shadow cloak solely to gank people, these changes shouldn't affect you too much, that's my opinion.

Itoq

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

No ability should lock out a class ability

I agree.

When a NB cloaks I can't use 99% of my class skills abilities against them. I spam purge yet I still cannot use my class abilities against a NB using cloak ability. Why does NB ability lock out my abilities? QQ.


But really cloak needed some tweaking but something simpler and more straightforward (and with less calculations for the server) would have been better.

Derra

Piercing mark completely locking out the use of an ability for 20+ seconds is something that has to be reverted before this goes live.
This is gamebreaking and should never have made it past internal testing.

Alucardo

Darnathian

Tone this down a little but it is a good change for balance.

If a nb chooses to engage and try to gank, they shouldnt be able to disengage right away whether they succeed or fail if there are others standing right there. And dont say its our only defense.

Build more balance or chopse you gank targets more carefully.

Trust me. there are a lot of great nbs that dont use cloak that have high survivability

You should get penalized like everyone else if you build like a glass cannon (except for mag sorcs which they main lol)

Called this 2 months ago when all the other nbs out there were screaming the skill wasnt op. This is what you get for not being reasonable.

Not sure if i was first to suggest it, But i am glad they are also removing the removes negative effects from cloak. Slot purge like everyone else or prepare to melted.

Mag dks have a heartbeat i think.

EsoRecon

Itoq wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

No ability should lock out a class ability

I agree.

When a NB cloaks I can't use 99% of my class skills abilities against them. I spam purge yet I still cannot use my class abilities against a NB using cloak ability. Why does NB ability lock out my abilities? QQ.


But really cloak needed some tweaking but something simpler and more straightforward (and with less calculations for the server) would have been better.

@Itoq
It's called stealth... deal with it

Takes-No-Prisoner

Good point on what you mentioned with engaging enemies darnathian. Itoq made a very interesting point about some abilites need line of sight to even use them. Not sure what exactly you have in your bar, but thankfully I have 2 that bring targets out of stealth by having aoe hitboxes.

However I stand with my original point. If you can purge off Marked then getting marked isn't an issue. Now if they changed mark to where you get the little wisp flying around you keeping you from stealthing for 20s even after you purge the marked effect off-- I am also fine with that. Because mark needs line of sight to be used. The assumption would be, to roughly say it, you messed up and deserve to get your ass exposed.

Good NB will never be seen. Thus, never be marked.

Itoq

EsoRecon wrote: »

@Itoq
It's called stealth... deal with it

So, you are saying that when I try to use my sneak ability, but I cannot because. a NB used a mark ability.

Or when I try to cast a spell ability at a NB, but I cannot because they used their cloak ability.

That I should just deal with it?

Thank you, sir, for your kind advice. I will take it under consideration.

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Piercing mark completely locking out the use of an ability for 20+ seconds is something that has to be reverted before this goes live.
This is gamebreaking and should never have made it past internal testing.

Yeah, I don't mind the change they made for dots nor magelight compared to mark target. It has 63 meter range, 30 sec duration and 2436 cost for my stamina nb, while purge cost 3410 magicka (and most of the time you need 2x purges meaning 6820 magicka for removing one mark) Next patch they also upped the cost for efficent purge..

Yesterday at night I spent basiclly 80% of my time marked when there was enemy presence in fights. Meaning in next patch, I wouldn't get to use my cloak nor clouding swarm at all almost xD

Edit: Tough when I think of it, cyrodiil has so many NB's atm, so perhaps most FOTM rollers reroll to something else next patch meaning less marks. One can hope xD

Moglijuana

Derra wrote: »

Piercing mark completely locking out the use of an ability for 20+ seconds is something that has to be reverted before this goes live.
This is gamebreaking and should never have made it past internal testing.

meh...it takes a nightblade to kill a nightblade. basically. I'm glad they're letting the class kill itself lololol

olsborg

Its such a hardcounter to a skill that has plenty of counters already. I fail to understand ZOS' reasoning here, they might aswell remove cloak as a invis spell and change it to a class heal. Locking the skill completely so the new minor protection buff or crit boost cant even be gained is ....im at a loss for words.

Derra

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Piercing mark completely locking out the use of an ability for 20+ seconds is something that has to be reverted before this goes live.
This is gamebreaking and should never have made it past internal testing.

meh...it takes a nightblade to kill a nightblade. basically. I'm glad they're letting the class kill itself lololol

Well the problem is you just need someone in stealth seeing you from the distance and mark you => bam cloak not usable for atleast 30s. Not a good idea.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Piercing mark completely locking out the use of an ability for 20+ seconds is something that has to be reverted before this goes live.
This is gamebreaking and should never have made it past internal testing.

Yeah, I don't mind the change they made for dots nor magelight compared to mark target. It has 63 meter range, 30 sec duration and 2436 cost for my stamina nb, while purge cost 3410 magicka (and most of the time you need 2x purges meaning 6820 magicka for removing one mark) Next patch they also upped the cost for efficent purge..

Yesterday at night I spent basiclly 80% of my time marked when there was enemy presence in fights. Meaning in next patch, I wouldn't get to use my cloak nor clouding swarm at all almost xD

Edit: Tough when I think of it, cyrodiil has so many NB's atm, so perhaps most FOTM rollers reroll to something else next patch meaning less marks. One can hope xD

I think it will go more in the direction of builds that don´t leave stealth for more than a second to minimise the risk of getting marked. Clever alchemist every 45s 1 gank oneshot combo.
Every NB daring to leave stealth is dead meat.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Derra wrote: »

I think it will go more in the direction of builds that don´t leave stealth for more than a second to minimise the risk of getting marked. Clever alchemist every 45s 1 gank oneshot combo.
Every NB daring to leave stealth is dead meat.

I believe you are right. As a MagNB, positioning still is a very high priority for me. I don't gank mind you, however keeping my location hidden from the enemy is important to me. I think this will be a very very critical thing for MagNBs in the next update, because of this tiny little gem going back in;

Forward Camps, an item that allows you to respawn anywhere without relying on Keep ownership or respawning at your home base, have returned with the following changes:

You may only respawn within a Forward Camp radius if you die within it.

The radius for Forward Camps has been greatly reduced from how it was originally.

There is a global respawn time of 2 minutes when you respawn at a Forward Camp, which will limit you from respawning at another Forward Camp while within the cooldown period.

Forward Camps are once again purchasable from Siege merchants for 20,000 AP.

You must be Alliance Rank 6 or higher to purchase or deploy a Forward Camp.

Any ally from your alliance will be able to use a Forward Camp once deployed.

MagNB takes a couple of these, sprints across the map with his party. Yeah, you get where I am going.

Lokey0024

Cloak should have never had a purge on it to begin with, being its a mid to high level Support or class specific ability. Now you have to slot abilities to counter specific scenarios, like almost every other class.

Im sure ill have a little more compassion when i can use my dragonknight class abilities to actually be competitive in pvp.

jpeltor

Feel like Kahjiit and Wood Elf should receive a racial buff to counterbalance the huge nerf they are taking here.

Purdomination33

Cloak will still be effective but this change means you have to use it strategically, you know, like every other class does with their skills. Do you realize how important it is to have the first attack in a fight? That will still be 100% possible but for once you have to think ahead...like everyone else. Right now you can just peace out whenever you might be in trouble. Not just run away but freaking disappear when surrounded. Countermeasures are only effective if its a Xv1 in an enclosed area...multiple people vs a single NB. Cyrodil is simply too large of an area to cover it in AoE's, detec pots can only be used 1x per minute and last 13 seconds, CC is stupid easy to break. To say otherwise is insulting. We all play the same game. No one is fooled.

Seriously, do you really think its OK to have the best damage, by far best gap closer, by far best mobility, best escape, best sneak, crazy sustain and able to take just as much damage as any other class? Yes, CP's even the field when it comes to sustaining damage.

But it's obviously your skill......

Moglijuana

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Cloak will still be effective but this change means you have to use it strategically, you know, like every other class does with their skills. Do you realize how important it is to have the first attack in a fight? That will still be 100% possible but for once you have to think ahead...like everyone else. Right now you can just peace out whenever you might be in trouble. Not just run away but freaking disappear when surrounded. Countermeasures are only effective if its a Xv1 in an enclosed area...multiple people vs a single NB. Cyrodil is simply too large of an area to cover it in AoE's, detec pots can only be used 1x per minute and last 13 seconds, CC is stupid easy to break. To say otherwise is insulting. We all play the same game. No one is fooled.

Seriously, do you really think its OK to have the best damage, by far best gap closer, by far best mobility, best escape, best sneak, crazy sustain and able to take just as much damage as any other class? Yes, CP's even the field when it comes to sustaining damage.

But it's obviously your skill......

YUPPPP. THIS x1000.

sadownik

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Cloak will still be effective but this change means you have to use it strategically, you know, like every other class does with their skills. Do you realize how important it is to have the first attack in a fight? That will still be 100% possible but for once you have to think ahead...like everyone else. Right now you can just peace out whenever you might be in trouble. Not just run away but freaking disappear when surrounded. Countermeasures are only effective if its a Xv1 in an enclosed area...multiple people vs a single NB. Cyrodil is simply too large of an area to cover it in AoE's, detec pots can only be used 1x per minute and last 13 seconds, CC is stupid easy to break. To say otherwise is insulting. We all play the same game. No one is fooled.

Seriously, do you really think its OK to have the best damage, by far best gap closer, by far best mobility, best escape, best sneak, crazy sustain and able to take just as much damage as any other class? Yes, CP's even the field when it comes to sustaining damage.

But it's obviously your skill......

While you have some good points i would love to hear about that strategical usage of cloak. Do you mean use it only from afar as a buff to ranged attacks?

Sureshawt

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Cloak will still be effective but this change means you have to use it strategically, you know, like every other class does with their skills.

ROFL....You mean like shield stacking on a Sorc? The same Sorc using streak for the best mobility in the game, which if used properly already reveals stealth/invisibility not mention doing damage AND stunning along the way. I could go with other other classes but this beginning statement of yours tells me you are biased and any further typing on my part would be a waste.

Master_Kas

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Cloak will still be effective but this change means you have to use it strategically, you know, like every other class does with their skills. Do you realize how important it is to have the first attack in a fight? That will still be 100% possible but for once you have to think ahead...like everyone else. Right now you can just peace out whenever you might be in trouble. Not just run away but freaking disappear when surrounded. Countermeasures are only effective if its a Xv1 in an enclosed area...multiple people vs a single NB. Cyrodil is simply too large of an area to cover it in AoE's, detec pots can only be used 1x per minute and last 13 seconds, CC is stupid easy to break. To say otherwise is insulting. We all play the same game. No one is fooled.

Seriously, do you really think its OK to have the best damage, by far best gap closer, by far best mobility, best escape, best sneak, crazy sustain and able to take just as much damage as any other class? Yes, CP's even the field when it comes to sustaining damage.

But it's obviously your skill......

Thing people are complaining most about is when you're marked, which has 63 meters range and 30 sec duration, requrires TWO purges to remove it (by the time you are done purging you are marked again) LOCKING the skill out from usage, meaning no passives/buffs that are tied to cloak.

Not that you cannot remove dots, couldn't care less about that part tbh.

Derra wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Piercing mark completely locking out the use of an ability for 20+ seconds is something that has to be reverted before this goes live.
This is gamebreaking and should never have made it past internal testing.

meh...it takes a nightblade to kill a nightblade. basically. I'm glad they're letting the class kill itself lololol

Well the problem is you just need someone in stealth seeing you from the distance and mark you => bam cloak not usable for atleast 30s. Not a good idea.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Piercing mark completely locking out the use of an ability for 20+ seconds is something that has to be reverted before this goes live.
This is gamebreaking and should never have made it past internal testing.

Yeah, I don't mind the change they made for dots nor magelight compared to mark target. It has 63 meter range, 30 sec duration and 2436 cost for my stamina nb, while purge cost 3410 magicka (and most of the time you need 2x purges meaning 6820 magicka for removing one mark) Next patch they also upped the cost for efficent purge..

Yesterday at night I spent basiclly 80% of my time marked when there was enemy presence in fights. Meaning in next patch, I wouldn't get to use my cloak nor clouding swarm at all almost xD

Edit: Tough when I think of it, cyrodiil has so many NB's atm, so perhaps most FOTM rollers reroll to something else next patch meaning less marks. One can hope xD

I think it will go more in the direction of builds that don´t leave stealth for more than a second to minimise the risk of getting marked. Clever alchemist every 45s 1 gank oneshot combo.
Every NB daring to leave stealth is dead meat.

Oh yes the gankers will become alot more. Marksman set (very similar to hawk eye set) empower from magelight like in 1.6.

I'm already theorycrafting a build using purge on mainbar instead of cloak, and devouring swarm instead of clouding. Only annoying part is that my NB is a bosmer which took advantage of the clouding swarm granting me 20% spell/weapdmg. But we'll see :P

Sypher

Piercing won't. Can confirm from wrobel. It'll work the way it works now on TG launch.

Master_Kas

Sypher wrote: »

Piercing won't. Can confirm from wrobel. It'll work the way it works now on TG launch.

Will it work how it works on PTS now, or how it works on live ?

hammayolettuce

It's about time NBs get nerfed

Sypher

Master_Kas wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Piercing won't. Can confirm from wrobel. It'll work the way it works now on TG launch.

Will it work how it works on PTS now, or how it works on live ?

Live

DracoBeowulf

Key is to have multiple classes i have a 50/50 chance currently to have FOTM class