Why is PVP mostly just a damage contest?

revonine

SneaK wrote: »

Another reason...

Cost to craft V16 gear.

I do miss the days of V14 cap and this is the reason. I could try out different builds easily. Make a gear set maybe upgrade it to blue try it out to see if it works. If not meh no big deal lets try something else. Now it's all or nothing. I can't craft max level gear to try out different setups for myself anymore the investment would be insane.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

As I play I've noted several different kinds of builds.

Now as for effectiveness usually its one kind of build per class, but not necessarily all dps.

DKs for example, are far different from my sorc, the more effective builds are inherently tankier than others.

Now if you are asking for diversity within each class, well that does seem to be lacking

Yes DKs are tankier as you put it and can last in PvP but barely and the ones who try to do DPS with them it's either lacking (magical DK) or jsut spam of one skill (WB spam which is all stamina users use next to steel tornado so stop asking for stamina merfs magicka users).

Which is why DKs need to be updated and buffed along with templars.

Vangy

Why do people think that 1 shots shouldn't be allowed? You simply can't take a sub 20k health toon with 7/7 medium/light with 40k magicka/stamina and waltz around in cyro/ic. Nbs and one shot dks will eat u alive and t-bag u until you die of a sodium overdose from all that salt.

Try going 2/5 or 5/1/1 for armor with some points into resistant with 2 pieces of impen gear. Get at least 23k health unbuffed. No more one shots on u. Not dead= more dps. And don't give me nonsense about oh u won't kill anyone blah blah. Because this is bull. I run 5/1/1 imperial dk with 25k health and 31k stamina with 3.2k weapon damage. I even use SnB with 2h (no I don't use Wb) just rally and stampede for 2h bar. And I kill things just fine. Hell I can even take on 2 or 3 people with proper positioning. Takes a while to kill someone but once I'm on them, they will die... Eventually. With Gap closers being so op you can just afford to invasion/stampede someone's butt hole until they realise they just have to fight u.

Sustain builds are around. They do work. It's just everyone loves to stack all their points and focus into damage cos it's fun and they whine about other glass cannons one shotting them. If ur a glass cannon you will shatter like glass. And it should be so. Don't whine. Wear some heavy pieces and get impen. Also don't even think about going vamp if ur in 0 heavy pieces and don't have at least 60 points into hardy. You will get rekt.

CatchMeTrolling

Anyone that think getting one shotted should be viable or balanced opinion is automatically voided.

Lucky28

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anyone that think getting one shotted should be viable or balanced opinion is automatically voided.

Meh, just because you don't like it doesn't make it invalid.

Besides, everyone is putting all their attribute points into Magicka/Stamina and pretty much none into health, in this kind of meta why are people screaming and crying about one-shotting anyways?.

Soris

There are no glass cannons, there are only cannons

CatchMeTrolling

Lucky28 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anyone that think getting one shotted should be viable or balanced opinion is automatically voided.

Meh, just because you don't like it doesn't make it invalid.

Besides, everyone is putting all their attribute points into Magicka/Stamina and pretty much none into health, in this kind of meta why are people screaming and crying about one-shotting anyways?.

Ok

Kas

i don't think people ignore sustain. at least 90% of decent pvp players run their respective recovery mundus atro/serpent.
defence however, is something that's almost exclusively useful in groups and that's mainly due to the stealth mechanics:

if you're solo, you rarely need def. your protection comes from hiding and not engaging big groups running around. if you see a target you want to take on, you need to be quick. otherwise more people will show up and ruin your plan. if you 1vX, you either face total noobs, or you need some mobility and play around enemy mistakes. Again, you quickly want to burst down a vulnerable target.

If you see someone win a 1v5, it's not because he's one of the tanky guys but one of those that can strike an enemy down within a single second if the enemy is isolated from his allies, carelessly engaged at non-full health / no shield or stepped into a full set of d-mines.

that said, I think being tanky and def isn't bad. But you'll need at least one other buddy in your group and cooperate well. Together, you, again, have the possibility to burst down unaware enemies.

For solo play, quick kills are important. Especially for NBs and SCs who can sorta "reset" the fight, get picks, reset again. But also for templar and DKs who want their ciritcal combos to be lethal. If your 1v1s take as long as proper duels, you#re completely lost in the wild where 10 players (friendly or enemy) will jopin the fight, long before you're done

ToRelax

Vangy wrote: »

Why do people think that 1 shots shouldn't be allowed? You simply can't take a sub 20k health toon with 7/7 medium/light with 40k magicka/stamina and waltz around in cyro/ic. Nbs and one shot dks will eat u alive and t-bag u until you die of a sodium overdose from all that salt.

Try going 2/5 or 5/1/1 for armor with some points into resistant with 2 pieces of impen gear. Get at least 23k health unbuffed. No more one shots on u. Not dead= more dps. And don't give me nonsense about oh u won't kill anyone blah blah. Because this is bull. I run 5/1/1 imperial dk with 25k health and 31k stamina with 3.2k weapon damage. I even use SnB with 2h (no I don't use Wb) just rally and stampede for 2h bar. And I kill things just fine. Hell I can even take on 2 or 3 people with proper positioning. Takes a while to kill someone but once I'm on them, they will die... Eventually. With Gap closers being so op you can just afford to invasion/stampede someone's butt hole until they realise they just have to fight u.

Sustain builds are around. They do work. It's just everyone loves to stack all their points and focus into damage cos it's fun and they whine about other glass cannons one shotting them. If ur a glass cannon you will shatter like glass. And it should be so. Don't whine. Wear some heavy pieces and get impen. Also don't even think about going vamp if ur in 0 heavy pieces and don't have at least 60 points into hardy. You will get rekt.

Are you trying to tell me 3.2k weapon damage is a sustain build? The sustain builds we have today don't have much sustain compared to 1.6 or 1.5.

Edit: Not the right way to say it. Our builds today are way more focused on damage than a typical 1.5 build or a sustain build in 1.6.

Lucky28 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anyone that think getting one shotted should be viable or balanced opinion is automatically voided.

Meh, just because you don't like it doesn't make it invalid.

Besides, everyone is putting all their attribute points into Magicka/Stamina and pretty much none into health, in this kind of meta why are people screaming and crying about one-shotting anyways?.

So that ZOS eventually agrees to give everyone a flat damage reduction so they don't have to care about their defenses anymore...

Kas wrote: »

i don't think people ignore sustain. at least 90% of decent pvp players run their respective recovery mundus atro/serpent.
defence however, is something that's almost exclusively useful in groups and that's mainly due to the stealth mechanics:

if you're solo, you rarely need def. your protection comes from hiding and not engaging big groups running around. if you see a target you want to take on, you need to be quick. otherwise more people will show up and ruin your plan. if you 1vX, you either face total noobs, or you need some mobility and play around enemy mistakes. Again, you quickly want to burst down a vulnerable target.

If you see someone win a 1v5, it's not because he's one of the tanky guys but one of those that can strike an enemy down within a single second if the enemy is isolated from his allies, carelessly engaged at non-full health / no shield or stepped into a full set of d-mines.

that said, I think being tanky and def isn't bad. But you'll need at least one other buddy in your group and cooperate well. Together, you, again, have the possibility to burst down unaware enemies.

For solo play, quick kills are important. Especially for NBs and SCs who can sorta "reset" the fight, get picks, reset again. But also for templar and DKs who want their ciritcal combos to be lethal. If your 1v1s take as long as proper duels, you#re completely lost in the wild where 10 players (friendly or enemy) will jopin the fight, long before you're done

Groups can always act in the same way as a bunch of solo players, so it is also possible to use LOS... if the "group" is a size at that this does not make sense, then indeed the groupplayers need less defense than a solo player - who probably needs most, out of small group tanks, just to survive bad moments.
Trying to 1vX with LOS or even stealth as your one trick pony defense will get you killed fast in most cases.

Lil_Willie

I dont see why people are complaining about champion point system. I dont want them temoved from Pvp. An easy mitigate for that is Zos creating a non champion campaign or you whiny players who want Obamagamecare to level up more. Just saying

Vangy

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

Thallia

Your puny Damage is nothing to the great heals and shields of Full healer Templars

Didgerion

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

It seems the majority of pvp has turned into who hits the hardest & just about every build is centered around damage with little sustain. Completely understand the goal is to kill your enemies but at the same time where's the variety and originality?

I feel sustain builds are a bit better and more interesting too, at least you can get a taste of how skilled someone really is when it comes to using the game mechanics and managing their resources. In my opinion that's how it should be rather than bursting someone down, which is also pretty interesting since damage was "nerfed" but you still can manage to get insta killed thanks to certain builds & cheap skills. Note, I know you're not going to just burst someone down that's good but the average player you pretty much will which isn't skillful to me.

Which is a problem somewhat because I don't want to win a fight simply because I hit hard, would rather it be because I straight up outplayed my opponent using my skills and managing my resources properly.

Don't think it's ZOS fault, it's how the player base typically chooses to play, they could nerf the damage again but player's will just create a new hard hitting build to replace the old one's.

What's your thoughts?

Where did you experience the problem you are talking about..I want to be there too.

What I experience in my pvp is the broken mechanic exploiting contest.

eserras7b16_ESO

Message to people that claim that: "Game is balanced because when you build up tank you're very hard to kill, and when you build burst you're very easy to kill"

Eat my *** because you know as well as I do, that:

1. You play a burst build
2. It's hard for you to kill a sorcerer with a 24k shield and 50k magicka pool
3. It's hard for you to kill a magicka NB with 45k magicka pool 2k magicka regen who will just dissapear
4. It's NOT hard for you to kill a "tank" in the frontlines because he's just there standing blocking, so easy to kill

End of story.

BuggeX

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

4. It's NOT hard for you to kill a "tank" in the frontlines because he's just there standing blocking, so easy to kill

End of story.

its hard for noobs to kill a tanky one

ToRelax

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

leepalmer95

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

3k is pretty average i'd say, all my characters all have about 2k+ regen 35K+ max dmg stat and still have over 3k dmg.

It's so easy to stack wpn/spell dmg now days with IC jewellery. Thats with about 24k hp as well.

Vangy

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

@ToRelax Lol u can try spamming bombard on me when u have 2.2k weapon damage. I can just sit in it while having a picnic and just press vigor to outheal all that damage.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

3k is pretty average i'd say, all my characters all have about 2k+ regen 35K+ max dmg stat and still have over 3k dmg.

It's so easy to stack wpn/spell dmg now days with IC jewellery. Thats with about 24k hp as well.

^
Even full fledged tanks have 3k weapon damage nowadays lol. And these are the guys that tank trials etc and they have 30+k hp and amazing sustain even without cyro buffs lol. You really need to rethink your gear. With 2.2k weapon damage ur not tanky. Your just someone 99% of people are going to ignore in group fights. They are going to frag all your friends first and deal with u when ur the last man standing cos your doing nothing to them lol. The key to being tanky is to be hard to kill while putting out decent dps. Not just being a rock.

Faulgor

I'd be interested to hear what the PvP community has to say about my suggestion regarding this and similar issues:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/240195/streamlining-eso

1) Capped attribute system with diverse stats.
2) Change all buffs and stat increments to a percentage so buffs can't buff other buffs.

ToRelax

Vangy wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

@ToRelax Lol u can try spamming bombard on me when u have 2.2k weapon damage. I can just sit in it while having a picnic and just press vigor to outheal all that damage.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

3k is pretty average i'd say, all my characters all have about 2k+ regen 35K+ max dmg stat and still have over 3k dmg.

It's so easy to stack wpn/spell dmg now days with IC jewellery. Thats with about 24k hp as well.

^
Even full fledged tanks have 3k weapon damage nowadays lol. And these are the guys that tank trials etc and they have 30+k hp and amazing sustain even without cyro buffs lol. You really need to rethink your gear. With 2.2k weapon damage ur not tanky. Your just someone 99% of people are going to ignore in group fights. They are going to frag all your friends first and deal with u when ur the last man standing cos your doing nothing to them lol. The key to being tanky is to be hard to kill while putting out decent dps. Not just being a rock.

People often whisper me about my stats and are usually surprised how "low" they are. I combine my skills in combos with animation cancelling, especially on the Sorc because delayed burst is an integral part of the class, but also on other classes. That way I will periodically release a potentionally lethal burst, even in situations that demand resource heavy defenses, and be a hard target on top of that.
You don't have to believe me, I don't expect you to...

BuggeX

Faulgor wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear what the PvP community has to say about my suggestion regarding this and similar issues:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/240195/streamlining-eso
2) Change all buffs and stat increments to a percentage so buffs can't buff other buffs.

well to say the true... i didnt read it just looked at the picts, well one was usefull.
% based sets, would make Change and diversitiy from builds and playstile rly marginal since the base values of Res etc, is pretty low.

Vangy

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

@ToRelax Lol u can try spamming bombard on me when u have 2.2k weapon damage. I can just sit in it while having a picnic and just press vigor to outheal all that damage.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

3k is pretty average i'd say, all my characters all have about 2k+ regen 35K+ max dmg stat and still have over 3k dmg.

It's so easy to stack wpn/spell dmg now days with IC jewellery. Thats with about 24k hp as well.

^
Even full fledged tanks have 3k weapon damage nowadays lol. And these are the guys that tank trials etc and they have 30+k hp and amazing sustain even without cyro buffs lol. You really need to rethink your gear. With 2.2k weapon damage ur not tanky. Your just someone 99% of people are going to ignore in group fights. They are going to frag all your friends first and deal with u when ur the last man standing cos your doing nothing to them lol. The key to being tanky is to be hard to kill while putting out decent dps. Not just being a rock.

People often whisper me about my stats and are usually surprised how "low" they are. I combine my skills in combos with animation cancelling, especially on the Sorc because delayed burst is an integral part of the class, but also on other classes. That way I will periodically release a potentionally lethal burst, even in situations that demand resource heavy defenses, and be a hard target on top of that.
You don't have to believe me, I don't expect you to...

I have 5 heavy and 2 medium with 35k stam and just about 2k regen with 3k+ weapon damage. Since u have only 2.2 what are you giving up weapon damage for? More regen? Just curious cos ur trading weapon damage away for something else. I'm just not sure what that is. I'd expect you to have some crazy numbers like 4K regen or something if you only have 2.2k weapon damage. The thing about regen is for my dk it's kinda pointless past a certain point. I've got some nice cp into reduced block cost and tumbling so when I'm outnumbered (which is like 80% of the time), regen dosent do jack *** lol. I just hold block comboed with rolling around trees and cliffs to divide enemies while keeping LOS and wear them down while using vigor igneous and well timed fossilize + leap to keep my resources up and do burst damage. My vigor wouldn't heal me for any good numbers if I went under 2.5k weapon damage.

ToRelax

Vangy wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

@ToRelax Lol u can try spamming bombard on me when u have 2.2k weapon damage. I can just sit in it while having a picnic and just press vigor to outheal all that damage.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@ToRelax : yes 3.2k weapon damage in today's meta is very Low. If your not running a sustain build with such Low numbers for weapon damage I don't know what to say. With my burst damage gear set my dk hits close to 5k weapon damage buffed while my tanky version would have around 3.7. Hell even most of my pve guild tanks have 3k weapon damage. And these toons have almost hit armor and spell res caps with 30k health. So yes. Wearing 5 heavy with 3.2k weapon damage with scales, vigor and igneous makes you one hell of a beast to take down in pvp. You'd need multiple people coordinating their ccs and burst to take you down.

None of my characters (magicka Sorc, stamina DK, magicka NB) has more than 2.2k weapon/spell damage. A stam DK with 3k weapon damage unbuffed is pretty much the opposite of tanky when facing my group, that's the kind of player we can bombard with projectiles right through their scales before even the healer is dead.

3k is pretty average i'd say, all my characters all have about 2k+ regen 35K+ max dmg stat and still have over 3k dmg.

It's so easy to stack wpn/spell dmg now days with IC jewellery. Thats with about 24k hp as well.

^
Even full fledged tanks have 3k weapon damage nowadays lol. And these are the guys that tank trials etc and they have 30+k hp and amazing sustain even without cyro buffs lol. You really need to rethink your gear. With 2.2k weapon damage ur not tanky. Your just someone 99% of people are going to ignore in group fights. They are going to frag all your friends first and deal with u when ur the last man standing cos your doing nothing to them lol. The key to being tanky is to be hard to kill while putting out decent dps. Not just being a rock.

People often whisper me about my stats and are usually surprised how "low" they are. I combine my skills in combos with animation cancelling, especially on the Sorc because delayed burst is an integral part of the class, but also on other classes. That way I will periodically release a potentionally lethal burst, even in situations that demand resource heavy defenses, and be a hard target on top of that.
You don't have to believe me, I don't expect you to...

I have 5 heavy and 2 medium with 35k stam and just about 2k regen with 3k+ weapon damage. Since u have only 2.2 what are you giving up weapon damage for? More regen? Just curious cos ur trading weapon damage away for something else. I'm just not sure what that is. I'd expect you to have some crazy numbers like 4K regen or something if you only have 2.2k weapon damage. The thing about regen is for my dk it's kinda pointless past a certain point. I've got some nice cp into reduced block cost and tumbling so when I'm outnumbered (which is like 80% of the time), regen dosent do jack *** lol. I just hold block comboed with rolling around trees and cliffs to divide enemies while keeping LOS and wear them down while using vigor igneous and well timed fossilize + leap to keep my resources up and do burst damage. My vigor wouldn't heal me for any good numbers if I went under 2.5k weapon damage.

A mix of both stam and magicka regen (and max stats), cost reduction and for the Sorc also crit. What most players neglect and don't even ask about are secondary regen stats, wich are the backbone of survivability imo.

edit: typo

dodgehopper_ESO

Xsorus wrote: »

Because ZoS removed softcaps causing damage to be extremely high and stupid, then instead of fixing it... Slapped a 50% reduction bandaid on everything.

If before you were built for sustain or hybrid or say a dot build...... Your damage is no longer able to kill anyone... However those that were built for insane damage can still kill people.....

It took build variety and completely kicked it in the nuts... Frankly I'm with @Alcast ... I don't think the people in charge of balancing have a damn clue what they are doing... They try and fix a simple problem half the time by completely screwing everything up... Realize they screwed it up and screw it up some more.

If I could compare it to anything I'd compare it to warhammer online and bright wizards mechanic.

Bright wizards had a mechanic in that game that increased their crit chance by 35% and their crit damage by 100%
This meant bright wizards could aoe a spot and decimate it easily.... Instead of doing the logical thing... Like maybe nerfing that mechanic mythic went out of their way to not just do that... First they added a 10 person aoe cap, when that didn't work they proceeded to nerf every aoe in the game... Which left bright wizards being the only class with actual viable aoe damage.

This game is filled with examples like this... And the current meta is one of them.

This is why the battle spirit buff ruined DK/Templar shields but made Sorc shields the only viable shield left (supporting example).

CatchMeTrolling

Old but looking back at this thread do you think ZOS finally made the right decision about sustain?

FlyLionel

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Old but looking back at this thread do you think ZOS finally made the right decision about sustain?

Yikes that kind of messed with me the wrong way, for CP the changes were good. Class balance is still terrible all while nerfing sustain across everything. A step in the right direction while taking two steps back theoretically. Class balance is 100% a problem still. About CP sustain yes; everything else(class wise) was not needed.

SneaK

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Old but looking back at this thread do you think ZOS finally made the right decision about sustain?

No I don't. They shouldn't be outright nerfing sustain. If I want to build for sustain I should be able to, but I shouldn't be able to have all the damage/heals/tankiness to go with it. They should have implemented a system that makes us trade off, preferably tailored to the type of armor we equip.

TheStankTank

Oh yeah, there are oodles of damage-dealers in PvP, and we will always see them ... because they are always trying to kill you. That being said, I prefer a PvP support class/interrupter/healer. Some of my guild-mates run tank builds to help hold teammates from getting trampled by a zerg, and to rez those who have fallen.

But it often feels unrewarding. Not as rewarding as Grothdar, Eye of Flame, and Vicious Death destroying a dozen PvPers on the bridge outside Alessia.

Gilvoth

Why is PVP mostly just a damage contest ?

because of proc sets and increase damage sets armor.

CatchMeTrolling

FlyLionel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Old but looking back at this thread do you think ZOS finally made the right decision about sustain?

Yikes that kind of messed with me the wrong way, for CP the changes were good. Class balance is still terrible all while nerfing sustain across everything. A step in the right direction while taking two steps back theoretically. Class balance is 100% a problem still. About CP sustain yes; everything else(class wise) was not needed.

I thought the change was good regarding to cp but the class changes was uncalled for. In a way it makes you build for sustain more typically but I think eventually player's will build around it or sustained builds might become top tier.