The Zerg Cure?

xXNesTXx

Your idea is not a cure for nothing....is one more step to kill this game....

The only good idea to avoid zergs is remove the crap of the 50% Damage reduction allowing to players move for Cyrodiil with some chance to survive in a outnumbered fight like before the patch

Any other fool idea, it's only that....

PhatGrimReaper

xXNesTXx wrote: »

Your idea is not a cure for nothing....is one more step to kill this game....

The only good idea to avoid zergs is remove the crap of the 50% Damage reduction allowing to players move for Cyrodiil with some chance to survive in a outnumbered fight like before the patch

Any other fool idea, it's only that....

With all due respect, the reversal of AoE caps will actually make it more possible to survive in some outnumbered situations without returning to the ridiculously low 1v1 TTK of 1.6.

Thanks for your contribution though.

_adhyffbjjjf12

Reversal of aoe caps fixes nothing, now instead of range and dmg calculations you have more people being hit by more skills. Then you ask what does it actually address? Aoe Zergball can now hit everyone in range with 1 shot dmg, single pkayer can only hit full Zerg for spell dmg from 1 person.

The only answer with the current implementation is remove aoe, and quite frankly if you want to roll your face on an aoe button then you are not really getting the point of pkayer versus player.

altemriel

I bet 100 in-game gold that ZOS is already working on the LAG problem and when fixed, they will introduce spelcrafting and remove AOE caps!!!

Banroc

Cap brought in because of problems with AOE ..Now we have problems because of AOE .
Spot the problem ?
Adjusting it or reversing the cap will change nothing players will still stack on crown and spam AOE lagging the server in the process .
How hard is it to see what the problem is and how to resolve it ... Simply remove AOE from PVP

Cathexis

I don't think you can just remove AoE from PvP but discouraging their use through reshaping their function would go a long way to alleviating latency problems.

Banroc

Cathexis wrote: »

I don't think you can just remove AoE from PvP but discouraging their use through reshaping their function would go a long way to alleviating latency problems.

So by reshaping you mean make them worthless so players do not use them? Is that not the same as removing them lol

_adhyffbjjjf12

Why can't you remove aoe from pvp ? It's poor gameplay, it rewards balling up, the bigger the group the faster the damage scales, the engine can't cope with the scaling (fannying about with tweaks is a hackers game) Or, remove aoe and slowly reintroduce in a controlled manner.

its not rocket science - its broken, isolate, remove, stabilise and control the fix.

Kelces

Why can't you remove aoe from pvp ?

Because some might want to be able to uncloak a nightblade for example and don't have caltrops handy, but maybe...(insert AoE-skill)

I can imagine, how hard it is, to fix something, that actually was broken by players in the first place. As hard as that may sound, it's the truth: Everyone wants to be invincible, therefore goes exactly the same way as the pioneer "lol-zergers", ignoring the vast individuality this game provides. And then complain about lack of variety, really?

Sure, it's hard to win in many situations, but you need to deal with it. It's a game and you are supposed to have a role in it, not be faceless. We already have enough of it in the real life.

I agree however, that there are some issues between stamina and magicka builds for example, but that's another story. Only players can actually "fix" the gameplay by using their own brains instead of a calculator to come up with a concept for their teams. I would really like to see things change concerning zerg-groups, but until then, there will be no "cure" for it, I can predict you that.

_adhyffbjjjf12

Kelces wrote: »

Why can't you remove aoe from pvp ?

Because some might want to be able to uncloak a nightblade for example and don't have caltrops handy, but maybe...(insert AoE-skill)

I can imagine, how hard it is, to fix something, that actually was broken by players in the first place. As hard as that may sound, it's the truth: Everyone wants to be invincible, therefore goes exactly the same way as the pioneer "lol-zergers", ignoring the vast individuality this game provides. And then complain about lack of variety, really?

Sure, it's hard to win in many situations, but you need to deal with it. It's a game and you are supposed to have a role in it, not be faceless. We already have enough of it in the real life.

I agree however, that there are some issues between stamina and magicka builds for example, but that's another story. Only players can actually "fix" the gameplay by using their own brains instead of a calculator to come up with a concept for their teams. I would really like to see things change concerning zerg-groups, but until then, there will be no "cure" for it, I can predict you that.

I agree with that, its human nature to zerg - you see a battle, you gravitate towards it, should be fun, especially with strategies involving siege (yup siege is useless just now) However, guilds organising zerg balling are doing something entirely different, and its the game developers responsibility to use game rules and physics to prevent that behaviour, or rather de incentivise it. Guilds who organise zerg balling are simply disregarding gameplay over earning easy AP and don't care one whit about the impact on the very arena they are playing in. Morons that cannot see beyond the numbers. And as a result, many many players who don't zerg will leave, because it ain't fun and it cant be mitigated beyond a few edge cases. Eventually the game will distil down to zerg balls running about and not much else and zerg guilds feeling pleased with themselves while secretly, deep down, they know they *** on their own backyard.

Cathexis

Banroc wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I don't think you can just remove AoE from PvP but discouraging their use through reshaping their function would go a long way to alleviating latency problems.

So by reshaping you mean make them worthless so players do not use them? Is that not the same as removing them lol

No its not. Giving them a different function to reduce their use means giving them effects that don't make necessitate or promote spamming.

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

Why can't you remove aoe from pvp ? It's poor gameplay, it rewards balling up, the bigger the group the faster the damage scales, the engine can't cope with the scaling (fannying about with tweaks is a hackers game) Or, remove aoe and slowly reintroduce in a controlled manner.

its not rocket science - its broken, isolate, remove, stabilise and control the fix.

I appreciate your perspective but removing them altogether is just a big a fail as keeping them in their current state.

Sweeping, extreme changes often fail for a number of reasons, but the biggest factor I believe that makes them bad is that they fail to take into consideration immersive details. Removing AoE is essentially like saying that there is no magic or attack which can hit more than one target, which we obviously know is false -- conceptually removing AoEs would just detract from the quality of play.

AoEs aren't fundamentally bad, they are a concept. Right now the concept is poorly applied. In the world of ESO, AoE is viewed as a damage platform, with secondary benefits like stealth detection. Conceptually, AoE can remain in the game, but just shift its primary utility to its current secondary qualities, and then fine tune.

A good example of how AoEs are applied might be AoE ultimates -- sure they hit a lot of targets, but they are well spaced out single cast events.

_adhyffbjjjf12

ye maybe you are right, ultimates or any aoe that is not spammable certainly helps, but be more generous with utility aoe. Perhaps take out out spamable dps/heal aoe, remove cap, beef up siege massively - make it almost a 1 shotter, it's avoidable.

HenryIvan

Let the masses keep cyrodiil give us small scale players BG's and an Arena. This way everyone can be happy, big guilds/groups can still have large scale pvp and those who solo or work in small groups can still enjoy pvp without being steam rolled by a zerg train.

_adhyffbjjjf12

How does that help small groups or anyone who does not Zerg in cyro?

KundaliniHero

As far as a "zerg cure" goes, I honestly cant say I believe something like that truly exists. Here is my reasoning: players have the resilience and adaptive qualities of a cockroach, if an exploit or loophole exists you can bet your a** any notion of honor or mutual respect is going out the proverbial window. Secondly, Zenimax has a fine tradition of so called "fixes" mutating into further broken mechanics so a "careful what you wish for" attitude might be more appropriate.

The best case scenario in my opinion is simple and something Zenimax should have implemented a long time ago: Battlegrounds. This would include dueling, 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 (with leaderboards) and also include miniature games like "capture the scroll" etc with a limit of 10v10, of course these are just examples - sky is the limit here, you get my point. Implementing this style of PVP offers those players who wish to avoid the zerg face *** of Cyrodil and would actually nurture better play all around. This would have been a far better addition than the massive failure Imperial City has become, sure it had some interesting content but as of late has turned into a parking lot.

wafcatb14_ESO

Best cure for the Lag is CU finally launching, because Zos isn`t able to fix their game, it`s been this way for over a year now.

_adhyffbjjjf12

There are many games out there that implement 1v2, 4 v4 etc that have years of development and refinement without a crocked games engine. if that was to become the core end game for pvp then eso has lost the one thing that lifted ths game up from the average Lobby themepark to something interesting and different.

Xjcon

pilb0xer wrote: »

ok so lets take it a back a bit.... back before we were all bitter and jaded.

we watched this amazing trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9utl3m08Vu0

and said damn i want to do that, an MMO with massive keep battles and tons of players!!! that sounds SICK!

yet over the time the game has been out lots of people started blaming the players for grouping up, creating negative words for people in large groups claiming "zerging" is destroying this game.

orly?


an MMO is a a video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance!

so why on earth do people think a group of 24 players is bad?!!?


"zerging" does not "need to be fixed" for it is not broken, in fact its what the game was made for.

how ever what IS VERY BROKEN is the performance of the "mega" server when large groups fight one and other.

some how along the way the general consensus of the players turned to large groups are bad because they cause lag.



i ask you all to reconsider your thoughts on this matter.

is grouping up in an MMO bad? does it make you a zergbad? is it really ruining the game?

or are under-preforming servers and game breaking lag at fault here?


by no means am i saying that the state of PVP is ok, or that there is an acceptable balance when it comes to small group vs big group.

I don't think grouping up is bad, but I think getting a huge damage decrease for simply being next to more then 6 people is crap.

I've thought the same as the OP but it would be worse if people could 1 shot entire raids by doing a single Dragon leap. I've been hit for 15k with that ability add the damage increase your talking about would just make things worse.

Simply removing AOE cap would bring things in line. When you run in to 24 people 6 of which are healing and you drop a meteor on them it shouldn't just be as simple as 3 healers hit their BoL key.

KundaliniHero

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

There are many games out there that implement 1v2, 4 v4 etc that have years of development and refinement without a crocked games engine. if that was to become the core end game for pvp then eso has lost the one thing that lifted ths game up from the average Lobby themepark to something interesting and different.

Totally disagree. If they choose to make it a generic clone of its predecessors then yes, but there are many creative opportunities and directions Battlegrounds could go. I can assure you there is nothing interesting and different about Alluh Akbaring into a wall of 50 enemy players over and over again.

jpalm1995

How about groups bigger than eight take 10000000000 fall damage the second they group up