Tweaking DK skills so their intended fuction matches how the game has changed

Tankqull

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBxu_2H9ANU


well the only change i would agree to beside fixing the horrible hight protection - would be a change to GDB to be usefull in pvp again (sth like double cost and vigor like hot effect added to it)

I deleted one of my Nightblades and made a Dragon Knight. I Don't see what's wrong with Green Dragon's Blood it pops me out of execute range and with class passives buff all heals. Giving my HoTs time to do their thing but also adds health and Stamina regen that's higher then my Nightblade's one was same Tank set up points in the same place 5 heavy to 2 Light, same gear.

So Dragon Knights can't force every Ranger in to a melee fight and hold block the whole time. Welcome to Mortality.

i´m not playing my dk currently but GDB works great in PvE and is a waste of mana in PvP significantly disadvanteging mana Dks over stamina weapon users as the healing is pittyfull. with the common 25k HP down to 20% it heals without healing advancements for 3200HP - wich does not pop you out of executioner range...(that would require a 5k heal)
so with adding a vigor like hot to it in PvP it would heal as much as every stamina user has access to in form of rally+vigor.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

i´m not playing my dk currently but GDB works great in PvE and is a waste of mana in PvP significantly disadvanteging mana Dks over stamina weapon users as the healing is pittyfull. with the common 25k HP down to 20% it heals without healing advancements for 3200HP - wich does not pop you out of executioner range...(that would require a 5k heal)
so with adding a vigor like hot to it in PvP it would heal as much as every stamina user has access to in form of rally+vigor.

Now I hear what you're saying but healing advancements are common place my Argonian takes 9% more healing, with Burning Heart I take 12% more healing with a Draconic power running, 5% more healing with five Heavy Armor and with the Champion System both heals I initiate and healing received is buffed by 15% so that's 30% better heals from myself.

That means that my heals on my self are 54% stronger countering the healing debuff of PvP with 4% on top and that's with out my Unassailable four piece bonus with 1k more health all the jewelry is healthy so I have even more health with 8% more healing received. Making that 62% more healing from self heals and 47% from outside heals.

aco5712

i am going to bump this thread every single day until the DK changes come.

I agree with everything you have said and more. The ultimate generation paragraph was spot on. The morph changes are all really nice. Give me back my ability to tank lots of people as a DK. I have had to go to stamina and rely too much on my healers and magma shell in order to be tanky. The DK was designed for more then this!!

Tankqull

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

i´m not playing my dk currently but GDB works great in PvE and is a waste of mana in PvP significantly disadvanteging mana Dks over stamina weapon users as the healing is pittyfull. with the common 25k HP down to 20% it heals without healing advancements for 3200HP - wich does not pop you out of executioner range...(that would require a 5k heal)
so with adding a vigor like hot to it in PvP it would heal as much as every stamina user has access to in form of rally+vigor.

Now I hear what you're saying but healing advancements are common place my Argonian takes 9% more healing, with Burning Heart I take 12% more healing with a Draconic power running, 5% more healing with five Heavy Armor and with the Champion System both heals I initiate and healing received is buffed by 15% so that's 30% better heals from myself.

That means that my heals on my self are 54% stronger countering the healing debuff of PvP with 4% on top and that's with out my Unassailable four piece bonus with 1k more health all the jewelry is healthy so I have even more health with 8% more healing received. Making that 62% more healing from self heals and 47% from outside heals.

even with your 62% self healing increasement you are barely out of executioner range (4860HP healed [20% of 25k HP= 5k HP left, 20k*0.30(healing value 30% of missing HP)*1.62(your heal modifyer)*0.5(pvp heal modifier) = 4860 HP. (and that remains the case for every base HP pool as the base heal value is HPpool% based )
while my stamina char without any heal increasements heals 2.4k/s in pvp...

dodgehopper_ESO

I'm just going to say I agree, but Templars need the same pass really, particularly Tank spec.

Evandus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hi Zos:

...

In sum: Magicka DKs have been undermined since 1.6. The IC exacerbated these issues to the point where the class is not fun anymore to play. There are remedies available that do not require extensive internal testing or redesigning the game. I don't think it is agreeable to ignore them and ask us to not have fun when logging in.

Absolutely agreed!

I also very much enjoyed reading @Jules thread as well. Both threads do an excellent job of putting out there what's gone horribly wrong with DK's. 5 of my eight character slots were different DK builds. And I fell in love with them in beta. Having returned to the game I've deleted 3 of them to try playing other classes. I still cannot bring myself to log onto and play my main, a DK PVE tank. I don't even recognize that character anymore.

I sincerely hope ZOS takes a hard look and makes some changes to my preferred class.

aco5712

just another idea. Make burning embers heal 36% of the damge you do per second so it becomes a hot instead of a heal after 10 secs. This would make it a more reliable thing and would help DK survivability.

SRIBES

Stam DK needs molten whip lol. It's a classless playstyle atm I use 2-3 skills in my build, many others do as well. The only passives I find useful are the block cost reduction, battle roar, and the 5% stamina return on earthen heart abilities. I suggest you add a stamina moteln whip into your OP, but still a good post! These buffs look nice for magicka dk though.
@Joy_Division

Edit: My bad, more block mitigation, was half asleep when I wrote this.

SRIBES

aco5712 wrote: »

just another idea. Make burning embers heal 36% of the damge you do per second so it becomes a hot instead of a heal after 10 secs. This would make it a more reliable thing and would help DK survivability.

Great idea.

Bashev

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Stam DK needs molten whip lol. It's a classless playstyle atm I use 2-3 skills in my build, many others do as well. The only passives I find useful are the block cost reduction, battle roar, and the 5% stamina return on earthen heart abilities. I suggest you add a stamina moteln whip into your OP, but still a good post! These buffs look nice for magicka dk though.
@Joy_Division

DKs has no passive that reduce the cost of block. The passive that they have mitigates 5% more damage while you are blocking 0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%

Farorin

DKs definately need soe fine tuning, but I think literally all of the classes need some adjustment, as they all have at least a good handful of skills that are almost useless.

SRIBES

Bashev wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Stam DK needs molten whip lol. It's a classless playstyle atm I use 2-3 skills in my build, many others do as well. The only passives I find useful are the block cost reduction, battle roar, and the 5% stamina return on earthen heart abilities. I suggest you add a stamina moteln whip into your OP, but still a good post! These buffs look nice for magicka dk though.
@Joy_Division

DKs has no passive that reduce the cost of block. The passive that they have mitigates 5% more damage while you are blocking 0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%

I was half asleep when I wrote this, my bad lol. Ik my DK stuff

Bashev

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Stam DK needs molten whip lol. It's a classless playstyle atm I use 2-3 skills in my build, many others do as well. The only passives I find useful are the block cost reduction, battle roar, and the 5% stamina return on earthen heart abilities. I suggest you add a stamina moteln whip into your OP, but still a good post! These buffs look nice for magicka dk though.
@Joy_Division

DKs has no passive that reduce the cost of block. The passive that they have mitigates 5% more damage while you are blocking 0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%

I was half asleep when I wrote this, my bad lol. Ik my DK stuff

I know that you know it. I just wanted to point it out cause you have a nice reputation and newbies will read your comment and they will think that DK has such passives and then they will continue crying for more DK nerfs.

aco5712

Bashev wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Stam DK needs molten whip lol. It's a classless playstyle atm I use 2-3 skills in my build, many others do as well. The only passives I find useful are the block cost reduction, battle roar, and the 5% stamina return on earthen heart abilities. I suggest you add a stamina moteln whip into your OP, but still a good post! These buffs look nice for magicka dk though.
@Joy_Division

DKs has no passive that reduce the cost of block. The passive that they have mitigates 5% more damage while you are blocking 0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%

I was half asleep when I wrote this, my bad lol. Ik my DK stuff

I know that you know it. I just wanted to point it out cause you have a nice reputation and newbies will read your comment and they will think that DK has such passives and then they will continue crying for more DK nerfs.

tbh the DK should have this passive instead of the health recovery. Reduce our block cost by 5% or something.

Armitas

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Stam DK needs molten whip lol. It's a classless playstyle atm I use 2-3 skills in my build, many others do as well. The only passives I find useful are the block cost reduction, battle roar, and the 5% stamina return on earthen heart abilities. I suggest you add a stamina moteln whip into your OP, but still a good post! These buffs look nice for magicka dk though.
@Joy_Division

DKs has no passive that reduce the cost of block. The passive that they have mitigates 5% more damage while you are blocking 0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%

I was half asleep when I wrote this, my bad lol. Ik my DK stuff

I got excited and ran to my passives as my hope in ZOS began to blossom again...then I cried inside. Then I saw the maelstrom inferno staff and cried some more. I would like to report that my hope in them has returned to normal levels.

Moglijuana

Bump. Zos, you there? I would really like to see other builds being used besides wrecking blow spammers...

Corrupted_Soul

Thoroughly Agree

Bipolo

My ESO has been limited to dropping by the forums now and then.

THIS THREAD is by far the best thing ive seen here in the last couple months. It easily explains what i think most veteran Magicka DK feel and contrary to the milkdrinker's DK bias, it has never really been about going back to "pre 1.6 easy mode". It has however to do with the very important fact that the class we loved to play, is no longer fun to play due to a lot of game changes.

I really hope ZoS read this mr. OP, that they are willing to understand their own game and act on what you point out... It might even lead to a reason to dust off my axe and shield and see if this rusty old Nord can have some fun again.

jbcrocks

Thanks for posting this! I cried. Hopefully zos will listen to this..or at least make some changes that will benefit us and not nerf us again.

BalgusFlinn

bump

Bashev

I want to add about deep breath. The skill was designed when there were several channel and cast skills in the game. Currently most of the interruptible skills are not interpretable anymore. Make the skill AoE CC which stun 3 targets for 2 seconds and bypass block.

Rikumaru

I agree with pretty much everything but the cinder storm evasion chance. 70% evasion chance is ridiculous and would be OP in both outnumbered situations and 1v1s. A better adjustment would be a healing debuff and damage debuff of 15%.

Bashev

Rikumaru wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything but the cinder storm evasion chance. 70% evasion chance is ridiculous and would be OP in both outnumbered situations and 1v1s. A better adjustment would be a healing debuff and damage debuff of 15%.

It is 70% snare which is right now in live too. The OP proposed to give the major evasion (20% dodge chance) if you are in the cloud.

Joy_Division

Rikumaru wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything but the cinder storm evasion chance. 70% evasion chance is ridiculous and would be OP in both outnumbered situations and 1v1s. A better adjustment would be a healing debuff and damage debuff of 15%.

Don't think anyone suggested that. Certainly wasn't me.

"Ash Cloud - Original intent - Provide an area of protection for the immobile DK to fight in. Undermined by: Dubious decision to removal the 30% miss chance and turn the skill into a ranged DoT. Solution: Was nothing wrong with original skill that did both a DoT and provided a miss chance. Revert. "

Rikumaru

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything but the cinder storm evasion chance. 70% evasion chance is ridiculous and would be OP in both outnumbered situations and 1v1s. A better adjustment would be a healing debuff and damage debuff of 15%.

Don't think anyone suggested that. Certainly wasn't me.

"Ash Cloud - Original intent - Provide an area of protection for the immobile DK to fight in. Undermined by: Dubious decision to removal the 30% miss chance and turn the skill into a ranged DoT. Solution: Was nothing wrong with original skill that did both a DoT and provided a miss chance. Revert. "

Ah I was mistaken, dont worry. 30% evasion chance sounds good however as the ability is kinda just a aoe snare atm.