Orsinium - Where is the raid group play?

svartorn

I dunno how I feel about an entire solo expansion. It'd be nice to have more soloable things to do when I'm logged on at times no one else is online. I'm pretty disappointed by no new raid.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Gerardopg wrote: »

So we don't even gonna have 4 man dungeons in the dlc?

From what they hinted at during the live stream, "elite" players could solo the new large dungeons with the "right" gear and builds. The rest of us normal people will have to bring friends to get through and beat the end boss(es).

DaveMoeDee

Cously wrote: »

It is an ONLINE game. GTFO solo crap. Be nice, be helpful. Don't be a sick, don't be selfish. You will find plenty of people to play with. MMO.

Your avatar really matches your personality

Nifty2g

svartorn wrote: »

I dunno how I feel about an entire solo expansion. It'd be nice to have more soloable things to do when I'm logged on at times no one else is online. I'm pretty disappointed by no new raid.

They mentioned a new trial coming soon (hooray).
I think I like most about this is the weekly rewards, really good idea one question for @ZOS does that mean the leaderboards constantly reset and there isn't an overall? Is the weekly for top 100 or top 100 per class

Gilliamtherogue

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I think its hilarious to see Hardcore Raiders moan and complain about 'being forced into a playstyle they dont want to take part in' and then to turn around and stick their noses in the air towards anyone that would look at Orsiniums more Solo-Friendly play and want to do it.

Wat is this even? Who is complaining about being forced into a play style? The hardcore raiders are just disappointed that we haven't been given a raid in over a year now, and that the existing ones don't even scale to the new level cap. You want solo play? Go play the 20+ hours the quest line boasts. It's really not surprising for people to be disappointed by the lack of organized group play. Don't get me wrong, I'm STOKED about a solo PvE instance that I can go do when all my guildies are busy having a life (what losers) while I sit on ESO for 20+ hours. But to not release at least a single trial or update the current ones to v16 with this patch is really going to kill the PvE community. The top guilds who were all chasing for the #1 in 1.6 are nearly dead after ICP hit, we have nothing to do but do old content, and less than 10% of the guilds who participated in last patch's unofficial race to #1 have dropped out. Look at the leaderboards, there's literally 2 groups worldwide who play consistently. That used to be at least 10 groups a couple months ago, and even more before that. How can you not expect us to voice our opinion?

tpanisiakb16_ESO

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Gerardopg wrote: »

So we don't even gonna have 4 man dungeons in the dlc?

From what they hinted at during the live stream, "elite" players could solo the new large dungeons with the "right" gear and builds. The rest of us normal people will have to bring friends to get through and beat the end boss(es).

You mean the rest of us scrubs? Don't you forget we are the weak link here as those l33t3rs will have you know.

I love how encouraging ZOS is to this toxic mentality. You know the most amount of fun I had in a long time in my MMO career was the months leading up to the IC announcement. Everything felt perfect then.

But what do I know, I'm just a casual scrub.

Nifty2g

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I think its hilarious to see Hardcore Raiders moan and complain about 'being forced into a playstyle they dont want to take part in' and then to turn around and stick their noses in the air towards anyone that would look at Orsiniums more Solo-Friendly play and want to do it.

Wat is this even? Who is complaining about being forced into a play style? The hardcore raiders are just disappointed that we haven't been given a raid in over a year now, and that the existing ones don't even scale to the new level cap. You want solo play? Go play the 20+ hours the quest line boasts. It's really not surprising for people to be disappointed by the lack of organized group play. Don't get me wrong, I'm STOKED about a solo PvE instance that I can go do when all my guildies are busy having a life (what losers) while I sit on ESO for 20+ hours. But to not release at least a single trial or update the current ones to v16 with this patch is really going to kill the PvE community. The top guilds who were all chasing for the #1 in 1.6 are nearly dead after ICP hit, we have nothing to do but do old content, and less than 10% of the guilds who participated in last patch's unofficial race to #1 have dropped out. Look at the leaderboards, there's literally 2 groups worldwide who play consistently. That used to be at least 10 groups a couple months ago, and even more before that. How can you not expect us to voice our opinion?

See this is pretty much what I'm talking about, Solo Arena is an amazing idea it's just a bit of a let down to not include a trial to divide players apart even further

@ZOS_RichLambert sorry for the tags but are we seeing scaled trials to vr16 and vdsa to vr16 this update?

Korah_Eaglecry

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I think its hilarious to see Hardcore Raiders moan and complain about 'being forced into a playstyle they dont want to take part in' and then to turn around and stick their noses in the air towards anyone that would look at Orsiniums more Solo-Friendly play and want to do it.

Wat is this even? Who is complaining about being forced into a play style? The hardcore raiders are just disappointed that we haven't been given a raid in over a year now, and that the existing ones don't even scale to the new level cap. You want solo play? Go play the 20+ hours the quest line boasts. It's really not surprising for people to be disappointed by the lack of organized group play. Don't get me wrong, I'm STOKED about a solo PvE instance that I can go do when all my guildies are busy having a life (what losers) while I sit on ESO for 20+ hours. But to not release at least a single trial or update the current ones to v16 with this patch is really going to kill the PvE community. The top guilds who were all chasing for the #1 in 1.6 are nearly dead after ICP hit, we have nothing to do but do old content, and less than 10% of the guilds who participated in last patch's unofficial race to #1 have dropped out. Look at the leaderboards, there's literally 2 groups worldwide who play consistently. That used to be at least 10 groups a couple months ago, and even more before that. How can you not expect us to voice our opinion?

Were you dead to the world when everyone realized that a lot of what IC offered would require PvEers to wade through a PvP area. Or are you just being purposely ignorant to try and make a sad response with your meme?

Gilliamtherogue

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Were you dead to the world when everyone realized that a lot of what IC offered would require PvEers to wade through a PvP area. Or are you just being purposely ignorant to try and make a sad response with your meme?

Everyone with a brain knew that the only semi desirable PvE related content would come from the dungeons ICP/WGT that were not bound by PvP. I'm not being ignorant, no in fact I am being more intelligent than half of this thread could even comprehend. The real hardcore players/raiders didn't QQ when IC hit. I guess I see where you fall under in that category.

Ezareth

Nifty2g wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You wait for Murkmire Nifty. Plus it's been discussed time and time again that Orsinium was going to be solo content. No raids or trials was expected with this.

They should have released murkmire first then, the group play should be before the solo play so it doesn't tear what is left of all the raid guilds apart. Just my opinion, I really do like this solo arena but I'm just upset about the raiding group play

Craglorn already came out, so aside from 1-49, silver and gold, what is there for solo play?

I have a question for you, do you really think the solo player who loves questing is going to be able to complete a solo arena? Of course not, again it's designed for the end game players (raiders) who want raiding content.

I have to disagree. I'm a primarily solo player who isn't a big fan of group play.

I levelled from level 10 to Vet 10 exclusively in Cyrodiil, grinding cave after cave. I've soloed V16 dungeons and practically everything in IC. I love the challenge of end game solo content, this is the one PvE thing ever made in this game that actually has *me* excited.

Nifty2g

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You wait for Murkmire Nifty. Plus it's been discussed time and time again that Orsinium was going to be solo content. No raids or trials was expected with this.

They should have released murkmire first then, the group play should be before the solo play so it doesn't tear what is left of all the raid guilds apart. Just my opinion, I really do like this solo arena but I'm just upset about the raiding group play

Craglorn already came out, so aside from 1-49, silver and gold, what is there for solo play?

I have a question for you, do you really think the solo player who loves questing is going to be able to complete a solo arena? Of course not, again it's designed for the end game players (raiders) who want raiding content.

I have to disagree. I'm a primarily solo player who isn't a big fan of group play.

I levelled from level 10 to Vet 10 exclusively in Cyrodiil, grinding cave after cave. I've soloed V16 dungeons and practically everything in IC. I love the challenge of end game solo content, this is the one PvE thing ever made in this game that actually has *me* excited.

Well like I said, Normal, Veteran and other modes are being included in this update, they're going to be hard and test your skills out and it will be the top 1% to be able to complete the veteran modes etc. Which I think is fine. I'm excited for that.

Personofsecrets

Anyone insinuating that not having a trial will go a-okay, then we all have news for you.

Nifty is right, large group trials are a big deal in this game. Keep in mind that trials are some peoples absolute favorite part of the game, those people have been deprived for so very long, and that a number of people are going to leave the game if there isn't a trial in the foreseeable future.

And because it seems like the insinuation is present, no, we don't have to have only solo or only group.

Ezareth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You wait for Murkmire Nifty. Plus it's been discussed time and time again that Orsinium was going to be solo content. No raids or trials was expected with this.

They should have released murkmire first then, the group play should be before the solo play so it doesn't tear what is left of all the raid guilds apart. Just my opinion, I really do like this solo arena but I'm just upset about the raiding group play

Craglorn already came out, so aside from 1-49, silver and gold, what is there for solo play?

I have a question for you, do you really think the solo player who loves questing is going to be able to complete a solo arena? Of course not, again it's designed for the end game players (raiders) who want raiding content.

I have to disagree. I'm a primarily solo player who isn't a big fan of group play.

I levelled from level 10 to Vet 10 exclusively in Cyrodiil, grinding cave after cave. I've soloed V16 dungeons and practically everything in IC. I love the challenge of end game solo content, this is the one PvE thing ever made in this game that actually has *me* excited.

Well like I said, Normal, Veteran and other modes are being included in this update, they're going to be hard and test your skills out and it will be the top 1% to be able to complete the veteran modes etc. Which I think is fine. I'm excited for that.

I've still never completed a Hellfire Citadel or Sanctum Ophidia. I've only done Aetherian Archives once. I've just never enjoyed sitting in teamspeak with a group of other players, depending on them for various things that determine my success.

If I fail, I want to know I failed because of *me*. I want to know that I need to improve. If I log on I don't want to see who else is on to be able to do something challenging or fun that isn't PvP.

I always felt a little envious of all the players in the elite PvE groups who did nothing but farm VDSA for CPs and gear. Grouping all the time for me is emotionally draining (true of all introverts). I enjoy it sometimes but most of the time I just want to be challenged and enjoy myself.

Normal Modes, hard modes and all that hold no interest to me because it involves me spending large amounts of time with groups of people.

If anything, this more than anything else will *Force* ZoS to balance the classes. Frankly I'm amazed they're actually trying to pull this off in the first place....and it's going to be released on *month* from now? /boggle

Nifty2g

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You wait for Murkmire Nifty. Plus it's been discussed time and time again that Orsinium was going to be solo content. No raids or trials was expected with this.

They should have released murkmire first then, the group play should be before the solo play so it doesn't tear what is left of all the raid guilds apart. Just my opinion, I really do like this solo arena but I'm just upset about the raiding group play

Craglorn already came out, so aside from 1-49, silver and gold, what is there for solo play?

I have a question for you, do you really think the solo player who loves questing is going to be able to complete a solo arena? Of course not, again it's designed for the end game players (raiders) who want raiding content.

I have to disagree. I'm a primarily solo player who isn't a big fan of group play.

I levelled from level 10 to Vet 10 exclusively in Cyrodiil, grinding cave after cave. I've soloed V16 dungeons and practically everything in IC. I love the challenge of end game solo content, this is the one PvE thing ever made in this game that actually has *me* excited.

Well like I said, Normal, Veteran and other modes are being included in this update, they're going to be hard and test your skills out and it will be the top 1% to be able to complete the veteran modes etc. Which I think is fine. I'm excited for that.

I've still never completed a Hellfire Citadel or Sanctum Ophidia. I've only done Aetherian Archives once. I've just never enjoyed sitting in teamspeak with a group of other players, depending on them for various things that determine my success.

If I fail, I want to know I failed because of *me*. I want to know that I need to improve. If I log on I don't want to see who else is on to be able to do something challenging or fun that isn't PvP.

I always felt a little envious of all the players in the elite PvE groups who did nothing but farm VDSA for CPs and gear. Grouping all the time for me is emotionally draining (true of all introverts). I enjoy it sometimes but most of the time I just want to be challenged and enjoy myself.

Normal Modes, hard modes and all that hold no interest to me because it involves me spending large amounts of time with groups of people.

If anything, this more than anything else will *Force* ZoS to balance the classes. Frankly I'm amazed they're actually trying to pull this off in the first place....and it's going to be released on *month* from now? /boggle

You have to remember, I'm not at all against this update. It's very healthy for the game. I just want some new trials. Also I never farmed VDSA for CP, I farmed it for competition

anitajoneb17_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

I have a question for you, do you really think the solo player who loves questing is going to be able to complete a solo arena? Of course not, again it's designed for the end game players (raiders) who want raiding content.

Nifty, IIRC you're one of the very top players on one of the best progression guilds.
Let me explain what happens currently in guilds such as mine. I don't like the word "casual", let's just talk about "good but non-excellent" players. We completed every content in the game so far, except SO HM and could never reach "leaderboard VDSA times". To make it short, we're by far not bad, but we're not excellent.
One of the reasons for this is that, like in every guild, people go and new people come. That means that in any given raid, we'll have 6-10 "experienced people and 2-4 "newbies of the instance". These people have to be taught the mechanics of the dungeon, but also the core reflexes of the game, how to optimize stuff, get out of red zones, how and when, etc.

Problem is : they have nowhere to practice without needing a group and they won't learn in a group because in a group you tend to not identify what's wrong with you, blame it on others, etc... and you fear judgement, too. And at the moment, we don't have much to feed them because the new dungeons are really hard for non-excellent players.

Orsinium being mostly solo, with this hard solo-arena included, will provide an excellent training field for all these players who need it, and they will be free to spend as much time as they want in there, just practicing, learning their character and skills and rotations, without the fear of being judged nor to waste other people's time. I think it's absolutely great and ZOS is right to release solo stuff before new group stuff, for this very reason.

Believe me, in a couple of months, you'll have, maybe not "more competition at your level" ... but certainly a large pool of advanced players to choose your new members from, for your new raids.

CP5

Nifty2g wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You wait for Murkmire Nifty. Plus it's been discussed time and time again that Orsinium was going to be solo content. No raids or trials was expected with this.

They should have released murkmire first then, the group play should be before the solo play so it doesn't tear what is left of all the raid guilds apart. Just my opinion, I really do like this solo arena but I'm just upset about the raiding group play

Craglorn already came out, so aside from 1-49, silver and gold, what is there for solo play?

I have a question for you, do you really think the solo player who loves questing is going to be able to complete a solo arena? Of course not, again it's designed for the end game players (raiders) who want raiding content.

Maybe I enjoy solo play, going at my own pace. Maybe the solo content in the game was nerfed to the point where I feel like I have to hold myself back to get any sort of challenge. Maybe the next dlc has a trial (wasn't it 2?) and will likely be a lot like Craglorn. Maybe there are different groups and ZOS is covering their bases, and right now you are just so bent on getting what you and only you want that you don't want to see that. And for the record, "en game players" aren't only raiders.

CP5

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Anyone insinuating that not having a trial will go a-okay, then we all have news for you.

Nifty is right, large group trials are a big deal in this game. Keep in mind that trials are some peoples absolute favorite part of the game, those people have been deprived for so very long, and that a number of people are going to leave the game if there isn't a trial in the foreseeable future.

And because it seems like the insinuation is present, no, we don't have to have only solo or only group.

Next dlc will have those, and at this rate there will be new trials rather *soon. Just think of how long IC has been out and how close Orsinium already is.

Vyle_Byte

One small thing could help tide over those who are waiting to do new raids, a simple thing. All ZoS needs to do is make it so all the dungeons and raids scale to v16. That's it. It isn't exactly what they want, i.e not being new, however it would go a long way and give them something to do while they wait.

Tallowby

---

Orsinium is a great addition as long as Craglorn group content is also leveled to VR16!

---

Trials / VDSA / Delves

stevenbennett_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's a PvE zone why are you missing the largest part of PvE - RAIDING AS A GROUP.

As you already know, a new trial is coming with later DLCs. I mainly want to address the above quote. Yes, there are a lot of people who see Raid-style gaming as the endgame of PvE… but by no means is it the largest part of PvE, nor is it the goal or desire of a lot of PvE players. That may have been true of other MMOs, where the only way to get the highest tier gear was to grind Raids over and over again… but ESO has always been designed from the start to break out of that narrow mentality and provide different approaches for different people.

Personally, I think Raid style gaming is by far the most *boring* part of PvE. I never understood them even in the old days when I played WoW and other MMOs. Yes, they can be a fun challenge the first time, or maybe even the second, but then you've done them - what's the point in doing them again?

So I, for one, am happy that they've given some emphasis on the other elements of the game with Orsinium. (and yes, even IC -- I've had fun doing the PvE elements there…) I'm not saying I don't want to see more trials - but we've known for months now that the next trial will come in later DLCs instead. With DLCs coming quarterly (Orsinium is actually a month sooner than I expected…!), you won't have *that* long to wait.

Soulshine

@Nifty2g

There are two main issues here at work against this type of content. There is also enough precedent already established in past content releases, including the three lousy raids we got in the first place, to prove without doubt that the interest is just not really there, let alone that their competency to produce meaningful raids to begin with is rather questionable considering what trials are - so the fact Orsinium will not contain a new ones does not surprise, any more than is the fact they will not scale the Trials we have.

One, every content release they have made, unlike what I have experienced in other games I played (not saying in every game out there just the ones I have played), has fundamentally been missing some core piece of content for some segment of the players. Other games I have played released zones, and/or expansions with content covering everything from world PvE soloing zones to grouping to PvP in some fashion. ZoS has never done this. Their business plan does not fit with that, and quite transparently, that lets us see the results. They seem to want to stretch out every bit of their deliverables into separate, monetized if possible, parts of the game. Both IC and Orisium were viewed over a year ago, so the time has been there to add Trials had they wished it. Apparently, they did not.

Which is point number two. In the face of the tug of war we are stuck in with balancing and the CPs system, it is pretty clear that adjusting the highest content in the game to scale up to cap is not a priority since for one thing they keep moving the cap in ridiculously short periods of time for a game this new, and because they still cannot stop their infernal tweeking with leveling systems and get on with the actual establishment of an end game.

If they cannot even decide on how these systems need to interact and balance out, how can they balance to proper scale what should otherwise be content meant to represent the pinnacle of PvE challenge in this game? They have pretty much proven that even developing 4 man content has been pretty lacking in this respect, and even the two new dungeons in IC are yet again a rinse repeat of tried formulas, added mechanics and hps notwithstanding.

I am glad that IC came out for PvP, and glad the Orisium will offer solo players what they have been waiting for. I wish that there were some new group challenges ahead of us, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards for quite some time yet if at all.

phairdon

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It's an MMO. WHY do you all scream for solo play? You can solo 90% of this game already.

MMO does not equate to group play. All MMO means is: many people playing a game online, whether it be solo, group or a combination of both.

svartorn

Just watched the ESO live thing and they said a new raid is in the works, just won't be there for launch of Orsinium.

Jitterbug

Sausage wrote: »

Deal with it.

Or more appropriately, stop focusing on the negative in everything.

NobleNerd

Gerardopg wrote: »

So we don't even gonna have 4 man dungeons in the dlc?

By the looks of what is on their official announcement of the DLC...... NO.

The only "group" content is the public dungeons and new world group bosses.

Elephant42

Nifty2g wrote: »

-snip-I just think there should be a new trial and 4 man / 8 man versions of this new arena. Seeing as it is their most popular PvE content in the game.-snip-

And your source for this popularity data is?

Nifty2g

Elephant42 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

-snip-I just think there should be a new trial and 4 man / 8 man versions of this new arena. Seeing as it is their most popular PvE content in the game.-snip-

And your source for this popularity data is?

Really? Pretty easy to see how popular it is since it was released compared to trials

DisgracefulMind

phairdon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It's an MMO. WHY do you all scream for solo play? You can solo 90% of this game already.

MMO does not equate to group play. All MMO means is: many people playing a game online, whether it be solo, group or a combination of both.

Don't get me wrong, I've solo played far more than a lot of other players. In fact, I still prefer solo-duo play; however, that doesn't mean I think that an MMO should cater to solo play. The DLC looks promising though. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint.

Bloodfang

Nifty2g wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

-snip-I just think there should be a new trial and 4 man / 8 man versions of this new arena. Seeing as it is their most popular PvE content in the game.-snip-

And your source for this popularity data is?

Really? Pretty easy to see how popular it is since it was released compared to trials

Even in WoD only 10% of the whole playerbase bothered to Raid on any difficulty.
What does it say about Raiding Endgame when even in WoW only minority bothered with it? And WoW is all about Raiding.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against Group Endgame, there should be more options for all kinds of playstyles after all. All I'm saying is that "Raiding geartreadmill concept" has been dying out for the last few years now. Wouldn't surprise me if Solo Endgame turns out to be more popular than Group Endgame ever was. After all the majority of players in any MMORPG are Solo-Players who just want group play as an option not a requirement and certainly not as the only choice for the Endgame.

Besides I never saw ESO as an MMORPG about Large-Scale Group PvE. It would be stupid to compete with that against WoW anyway. However ESO Dungeons are one of the best ever made in this genre. It's clear where they priorities lie when it comes to PvE Group Content, so expect to see a lot more 4-man Dungeons/Arenas in the Future.

ADarklore

I always laugh when things turn into the, "This is an MMO, not solo" argument when the REALITY IS... the overwhelming majority of players playing this game ARE Elder Scrolls series single-player gamers- and Bethesda is trying to bring even more of them into ESO by telling the world that work on Elder Scrolls VI has been 'delayed indefinitely' while they focus on Fallout 4; obviously this was their way of trying to get those holding out for ES VI to play ESO in the meantime and generate more revenue for the game as well.

CLEARLY the devs can tell by game data, how many players are playing solo content only/mostly, and how many are grouping. It doesn't take rocket science, or maybe it does, to realize that the majority of players playing ESO are those who prefer playing SOLO. Also, let's get this straight right here... MMO does not mean "group content only" it simply means a massive amount of people playing the same game at the same time.