shield stacking and endless block

ishilb14_ESO

Before 2.1, shield strength was reduced by 20% when used in cyrodiil.

After 2.1, shield strength is reduced by 50% when used in cyrodiil

That's a 30% decrease in strength from 1.6 basically, whereas damage is reduced by 50%, so shields are actually a bit stronger now than they were before 2.1, but I believe you can crit on shields now whereas you couldn't crit on shields before 2.1, so depending on your build it may or may not balance out.

All that being said, the best change ZOS can do to alleviate this problem, is to have shields overlap instead of stacking, to some extent. For example, have Annulment and Conjured Ward overlap because they are both shields cast from active abilities, but make barrier stack on top of it because it's an Ultimate ability; also, have the shield from the whitestrake set overlap because that is a shield from a set bonus.

melodeath

blur wrote: »

melodeath wrote: »

1 cc and 1 cc break and they are immune to it and can freely spam it.

i have 3.5k weapon damage and know my class..

if 5 of my abilitys dont bring down a shield than the problem is not on my end..

melodeath wrote: »

i dont think u do..

1vx vids are also most likely done against people that have no clue..

im talking about the fact that i have 3.5k weapon damage without buffs and a sorc was just standing there while i had hit 1 ambush, 4 wrecking blows with light/medium weaved into it.. and the shield barely moved..

how is that a problem on my end ?

You know your class and yet you Ambush and follow it up with 4 Wrecking Blows? That's a pretty large contradiction.
As a Nightblade you have a ton of different tools at your disposal, including Fear which is really strong. You wasted a CC break on a WB, and then spammed WB... no Surprise Attack, no Fear, no Icapicating Strike/Soul Harvest. For crying out loud WB has a 1 second animation and one of the most obvious telegraphs, even when clipped.

Now I am not denying shields are strong, however I am definitely saying this sounds like a l2p issue. You had a ton of options.

Add other people into the mix helping you.... that sounds like a group of horrible players. Didn't I just quote you saying 1vX are done against people that have no clue? Were you not just the "x" of the 1vX?

if you read further instead of giving me the l2p nonsence you would notice that i said that the sorc was just standing there.

yes i said a few wrecking blows without mentioning suprise attack .. doesnt change a thing to be honest..since with all those things his shields were still there.
but hey..apparently everyone must be skill capped in order to bring down a shield spamming sorc.

i dont care if im not the best but when i hear people tell me to "l2p" while a sorc just has to press 2 buttons after every offensive skill makes me wonder why i have to play a perfect game in order to do somthing against that.

on a sidenote: i also have a sorc wich is only v10 and after getting annoyed by the shield spam of the other sorcs i went on my own one and did the same and everyone around me including the enemy sorcs didnt get my shields down either wich is why im complaining about it.

say l2p all you want but wardened+light armor shield/resto staff ward is just ridiculous. wich is why i made this topic in the first place.

leepalmer95

Considering that out of that 'stack' only 1 shield actually works for physical dmg and yet you still couldn't kill them says it all.

Sensesfail13

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

They were never problems and its people like you that have now caused a problem because zenimax is lazy and wanted to help lazy players like you avoid actually learning how to play the game. GG you win, let me just flop over dead for you.

Sensesfail13

NGP wrote: »

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

Cos they have tons of cp. And one of them can break all my shields and empty my health bar within 5 seconds.

Yep, every person you cant kill has over 2000 cp and is *** immortal, just another defensive mechanism that has led to this bs nerfrific patch. Put your shield down bro, youre permablocking so that any knowledge of game mechanics cant get in. Hate to tell you this but you just arent a good player it has nothing to do with the enemies CP.

melodeath

i like how every time someone mentions a shield it l2p even though i have the classes myself and can see with my own eyes how over tuned they are.

my dk can still block for ages and my sorc can spam shields untill my enemies just ignore me and go back to their group.

and when someone says somthing about it the people all call "l2p" even though those are the only things in the game that i just find to be a huge annoyance.

but as ive been reading these forums for more than a year it seems that trying to ask for a bit more balance regarding those playstyles it just ends up in discussion with people that apperantly like the fotm builds and tell others to l2p even though its just a matter of what your gear setup is in order to keep spamming those things forever.

i'm not going to bother replying here anymore since it has no point in trying to argue with people that dont understand how a shield that has more absorb than most players healthpools is blatantly overtuned.

have a nice day.

leepalmer95

melodeath wrote: »

i like how every time someone mentions a shield it l2p even though i have the classes myself and can see with my own eyes how over tuned they are.

my dk can still block for ages and my sorc can spam shields untill my enemies just ignore me and go back to their group.

and when someone says somthing about it the people all call "l2p" even though those are the only things in the game that i just find to be a huge annoyance.

but as ive been reading these forums for more than a year it seems that trying to ask for a bit more balance regarding those playstyles it just ends up in discussion with people that apperantly like the fotm builds and tell others to l2p even though its just a matter of what your gear setup is in order to keep spamming those things forever.

i'm not going to bother replying here anymore since it has no point in trying to argue with people that dont understand how a shield that has more absorb than most players healthpools is blatantly overtuned.

have a nice day.

50% shield reduction, in order to have a shield thats > that players hp the shield would have to be 40k outside of cyrodiil.

Darnathian

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

They were never problems and its people like you that have now caused a problem because zenimax is lazy and wanted to help lazy players like you avoid actually learning how to play the game. GG you win, let me just flop over dead for you.

Okay I will bite. Please teach us how to learn to play. A your type say that but please explain how. Drain their stamina? Nope. Doesn't work anymore with cp's. Out DPS them? Nope never gonna happen.

So please how?

_adhyffbjjjf12

Maybe actually read the advice in the thread? Cc, burst, shield breaker, read the fight. Ask yourself this, if the average bust is 15-25k dps, and burst shield dmg is unmitigated how exactly did 5 people fail to kill 1 person, was he spamming 100k hp shields a second - nope. Those 5 people are simply failing against a good player.


Put it another way, why didn't those 5 players who know everything about the game not simply cc the sorcerer? Learn to play is the answer, explore builds don't just use cookie cutter builds off a website, learn what other classes do and learn to tead signs in battkes, stop blaming the world when things don't go your way.

Zsymon

No Sorc can spam shields for long now, magicka recovery got cut almost in half.

Just keep hitting the Sorc, he'll run out of magicka and die.

The main reason stamina tanks of any class are better now, is because they don't rely on recovery. I would think NB tanks are by far the best, since they can recover tons of stamina with every light attack, far more than a DK could with his passives.

Angarato

dear OP. theres another thread about a shield stacking crying his eyes out over the shieldbreaker set. you should check it out.

Kobaal

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/213772/shield-breaker-aka-i-win-button#latest

The image from that thread:

Personofsecrets

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

how about countering those builds rather than qq to the devs.

Alcast

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

Because the nerf to shield was 100% useless. I mean what keeps you from spamming those shields? Nothing.

mr_wazzabi

xaraan wrote: »

Quit asking for zos to make the game easy mode so you can just spam attacks and watch stuff die without having to put any work into it. If you have five people and can't kill one guy, it's not the game. No matter his build. The issue is with the five people attacking.

But if those same 5 people can kill every other buildin the game, something's wrong.

Lucky28

vanzan wrote: »

Shield breaker set rips through them in no time.

do you really wanna match your 2k irresistible damage against my 10K overload light attack, 9K Crystal frags, 6k Curse?. come at me bro.

Waffennacht

Alcast wrote: »

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

Because the nerf to shield was 100% useless. I mean what keeps you from spamming those shields? Nothing.

What keeps a DK from spamming wings, or NB spamming cloak, or the WB spam, or ANY spam? BoL spam?

For my Sorc, what gets my shield down and me dead (i have like 14k health in Cyrodiil) is a well timed hard CC followed up by really any hard hitting move. If you hard CC when my shield is low already you have much better odds.

Also, the CP into the regens, that's the benefit of being a Bamf with a huge level. Isn't so much of just a sorc issue

BLIZZchaos

Hmm I play a sorcerer and seem to kill other specs just fine, shields are weakens a lot to where you can remove healing ward in 1 shot. So stacking keeps that from happening. Don't need the extra shield just tossing a shield over it to get the full benefit of it.

Anyways if they are casting shields they aren't attacking. Hit them with dots like Castro's, entropy, anything that does dot and wear them down.

And yeah... 5 people not killing 1 even with shields is l2p.. unless it was an emperor. Streak eats magical and corneal kills stamina. Pots help but have a CD. No reason to have lost that fight. On Xbox na server lots of people can solo sorcerers easy

americansteel

seems like many on this thread are neglecting the fact that many of these sorc shield stackers are those who play this game almost non stop with high amounts of CP including marypoppins on console. these are the sorcs who pour CP into bastion.

rfennell_ESO

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

I can tell you only rumors.

There is a way to bug out damage taken when shields are up.

There is a broken set that continuously makes constitution (heavy armor passive) tick if you are a ww or vamp.

True/False? That's what I heard, and the people abusing these things will only respond with insults for you daring to accuse. The words they use are always the same, it's l2p, noob, rekt, salt, I'm streaming this and everyone is laughing at you, wut???, and the other litany of half witted responses that their heroes in twitch taught them.

The perma blockers being the most annoying, of course. Mostly because it ought not be possible without stamina regen, but there they are still perma blocking and block casting.

In every case de nile isn't a river in Egypt, it's the policy of the exploiter to deny everything and call you names.

Certain players, invariably twitchers and often EP on NA (but obviously not limited to) will use any and all means to exploit the game. Best guess is because they saw it exploited and exploited by a certain guild for so long that they think nothing will ever be done to them.

If you run around cyro and see blxxxxxy still running around invulnerable after all this time, I can see the temptation... particularly if calling yourself "the man" and "skilled" to people watching you on twitch is your thing.

BLIZZchaos

Sure it's block casting? Doesn't block animation cancel on console? Prolly not permanently blocking but using it for higher dps. If they make it so light attacks do it then I wouldn't use block while casting but for now it's how we animation cancel for higher dps.

I think bows are the only weapon you can use light attacks to cancel with. Bit I certainly don't try to block everything cause need the cc break

Derra

melodeath wrote: »

i dont think u do..

1vx vids are also most likely done against people that have no clue..

im talking about the fact that i have 3.5k weapon damage without buffs and a sorc was just standing there while i had hit 1 ambush, 4 wrecking blows with light/medium weaved into it.. and the shield barely moved..

how is that a problem on my end ?

The problem is you expect everything to die in 4 wrecking blows.
Duels between people that know what they´re doing tend to last anywhere from 5 minutues up to infinity and players get bored.

Congrats you found a sorc that you could not kill int 5 seconds. Did he murder you in 5 seconds? Most likely not (if he did - the problem IS on your end).

What you´re doing is:

"QQ someone survived my combo killing 90% of the players i encounter - i don´t know what to do next - nerf plx"

I could just log on my templar respec to magica and it would be the exact same thing happening when you´re hitting me with 4 wrecking blows. Nothing to do with shields.

FriedEggSandwich

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

I can tell you only rumors.

There is a way to bug out damage taken when shields are up.

There is a broken set that continuously makes constitution (heavy armor passive) tick if you are a ww or vamp.

True/False? That's what I heard, and the people abusing these things will only respond with insults for you daring to accuse. The words they use are always the same, it's l2p, noob, rekt, salt, I'm streaming this and everyone is laughing at you, wut???, and the other litany of half witted responses that their heroes in twitch taught them.

The perma blockers being the most annoying, of course. Mostly because it ought not be possible without stamina regen, but there they are still perma blocking and block casting.

In every case de nile isn't a river in Egypt, it's the policy of the exploiter to deny everything and call you names.

Certain players, invariably twitchers and often EP on NA (but obviously not limited to) will use any and all means to exploit the game. Best guess is because they saw it exploited and exploited by a certain guild for so long that they think nothing will ever be done to them.

If you run around cyro and see blxxxxxy still running around invulnerable after all this time, I can see the temptation... particularly if calling yourself "the man" and "skilled" to people watching you on twitch is your thing.

There is no such bug that I know of. What you might have heard of is that the Hardy and Elemental Defender passives from the champion system affect how much damage your shields take. This struck me as strange because I thought shields were supposed to take unmitigated damage. But it's in the game all the same and sorcs investing cp into these passives are not exploiting.

Perma-blocking isn't possible but blocking for a long time is possible, but there's a difference there. If you stack heavy armour and carry s&b you can mitigate your block cost so much that you can keep it up for a while without running out of stam, but you will eventually run out of stam if you don't release block once in a while. Also did it occur to you that tanks might just be really good at blocking when they need to?

Everyone can benefit from block-casting though, in the same way that everyone can benefit from animation cancelling, as a sorc with a staff I sometimes block-cast to save time if I need to block for whatever reason.

People need to stop being afraid of diversity in pvp, just cos your class can't do what that class can doesn't mean the game is broken.

k2blader

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Quit asking for zos to make the game easy mode so you can just spam attacks and watch stuff die without having to put any work into it. If you have five people and can't kill one guy, it's not the game. No matter his build. The issue is with the five people attacking.

But if those same 5 people can kill every other buildin the game, something's wrong.

Why did you necro this thread?

Anyone who is still crying about shield stacking needs to learn to play.

As a sorc with < 200 CPs and choosing not to dump everything I can into Bastion it's enough of a challenge when many opponents can land one-hits that make my Hardened Ward disappear. And everytime I refresh it means I'm not doing any damage. I've played with using skills like Combat Prayer, Mutagen/Rapid Regen, and Healing Springs instead of stacking shields; but sadly I've found them just too weak for what I typically face. As I prefer having the means to do more than just staying on constant defense, using Healing Ward with Hardened Ward is basically the only effective means for me to have much fun in PvP. (Note again I'm speaking about my particular setup, not from the perspective of tons of CP mitigation.)

So I really don't get why people insist I shouldn't have much of a chance. Because that's what it'd mean if I couldn't have access to multiple shields.

melodeath

i dont know why this thread got necroed since i have a diffrent build and adapted.
also like to point out thats its rather funny seeing the people in this thread telling me to learn to play while those are the same people qq'ing for nerfs in other threads about abbilities that i'm using now..

besides.. never asked for nerfs here tbh..just made this topic 2 months ago as i wasnt pleased with the patch since the changes to blocking and shield stacking didnt actually change anything in my opinion.


but i'd rather have this topic closed instead of having yet another "qq topic" on the forum even though its my own.

Omgwtfbbq321

Well with close to 40k magicka and about 40 points into Bastion My Hardened Ward is close to 10k. Most of the time I am hit for about 8k damage meaning a recast. I also stack Harness Magicka which is about 8k.

Because I have such high magicka and reasonable spell damage, I have shocking recovery. It is not hard to kill me. I have next to no stamina so soft CCing me and then doing a hard CC right after means I cant break it. I have 14k health so once the ward is down I am normally 2 hit.

What baffles me is when people cry about stacking Harness Magicka/other morph with Hardened Ward. It only covers magic. Hit me with anything that isn't magic and the 2nd shield doesn't count.

I died to 3 Wracking Blows the other day, I got soft CCed first so I couldn't break the stuns, so it was over in a few seconds, wards and all. I think alot of people need to read the tool tips more and understand their enemies better.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Ideas to end this.

Block casting just needs to go period end of story no ifs ands or buts it's broken and always will be and just needs to go.

Now shield stacking in general needs a total revamp and IMO believe need a major and minor system like most stuff.

Major shields be that of healing ward, blazing shield, the shield you get after furious leap the DK ultimate, and so on would be considered major shields and yo can only have 1 active at once with good reason of them being more powerful than minor shields which can be used together.

Minor shields be like the shields you get from whitestrakes, drinking a potion from the champion passive or from the weapon enchantment will be minor shields which aren't as powerful as major shields.

So short version you can only use 1 major shield and 1 minor shield at the same time and casting a new one replaces the old one thus greatly balancing shields and gives ZOS a reason to remove the "shield nerf" from pvp and maybe MAYBE tweek shield breaker.

But my 2 cents.

kaalmoth

hey out of curiosity how many hps can a sorcerer shield absorb with the maximum magicka someone can have?

mr_wazzabi

k2blader wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Quit asking for zos to make the game easy mode so you can just spam attacks and watch stuff die without having to put any work into it. If you have five people and can't kill one guy, it's not the game. No matter his build. The issue is with the five people attacking.

But if those same 5 people can kill every other buildin the game, something's wrong.

Why did you necro this thread?

Anyone who is still crying about shield stacking needs to learn to play.

As a sorc with < 200 CPs and choosing not to dump everything I can into Bastion it's enough of a challenge when many opponents can land one-hits that make my Hardened Ward disappear. And everytime I refresh it means I'm not doing any damage. I've played with using skills like Combat Prayer, Mutagen/Rapid Regen, and Healing Springs instead of stacking shields; but sadly I've found them just too weak for what I typically face. As I prefer having the means to do more than just staying on constant defense, using Healing Ward with Hardened Ward is basically the only effective means for me to have much fun in PvP. (Note again I'm speaking about my particular setup, not from the perspective of tons of CP mitigation.)

So I really don't get why people insist I shouldn't have much of a chance. Because that's what it'd mean if I couldn't have access to multiple shields.

What about wearing heavy armour and ditching shields to have magicka for offense?

vamp_emily

I just don't understand.

I''m not the best fighter and the last one you will hear complain about this game.

I just know recently I turned in a few quests "Kill 20 sorcs", and "Kill 20 DKs"; and also over the weekend, my alliance took down a few Over Powering Zerges. I did not see these types of problems.. shield stackers not dying, or blockers not dying.

Remember people this is PvP ( alliance vs alliance ) not 1v1.

For the record:
I'm a NB and never played a sorc.