shield stacking and endless block

melodeath

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

sicc

If five of you can't kill one perma blocker or shield stacker then the problems on your end. One hard cc and some burst and they're dead. Or repeat until out of stam then they're dead. Simple really. Instead of crying for nerfs use the tools available to counter them.

melodeath

1 cc and 1 cc break and they are immune to it and can freely spam it.

i have 3.5k weapon damage and know my class..

if 5 of my abilitys dont bring down a shield than the problem is not on my end..

Wreuntzylla

In 1.6, stacking hits wrecked perma-blockers (e.g., caltrops, etc.). Is that no longer viable?

sicc

Weird I've never had problems with rollers, blockers, or stackers on my nb or dk. In my experience it's usually bad players that don't know how to counter. Immunity is only like 4 seconds so keep cc ing.

I have several vids on YouTube 1vXing stacks of terrible players that simply don't understand game mechanics and how to counter certain things. That's all it's about is understanding the mechanics and how everything works.

You said in your op that 5 people couldn't take down 1 person using those tactics. The only way 5 people can't kill 1 person is if they're all below average and simply don't understand the game. Say what you want but that's the truth.

coryrenick_ESO

sicc wrote: »

Weird I've never had problems with rollers, blockers, or stackers on my nb or dk. In my experience it's usually bad players that don't know how to counter. Immunity is only like 4 seconds so keep cc ing.

I have several vids on YouTube 1vXing stacks of terrible players that simply don't understand game mechanics and how to counter certain things. That's all it's about is understanding the mechanics and how everything works.

You said in your op that 5 people couldn't take down 1 person using those tactics. The only way 5 people can't kill 1 person is if they're all below average and simply don't understand the game. Say what you want but that's the truth.

Game mechanics that aren't immediately obvious are signs of a bad game, not bad players.

Dr_Ganknstein

Sicc plays a sorc and shield stacks. Only reason someone wouldn't understand what the OP was talking about. I pvp a lot so I have seen similar situations as the OP described. Like the sorcs that constantly streak/shield stack, etc.

sicc

Actually i have a sorc, nightblade, and dk all v14. I have a pretty good idea what the op is taking about and how to counter.

AshTal

Yeah I play a sorc and originally I couldn't work out how people could get such high shields still I worked out I could just spam shields. Works well but kinda stops any attacking. However if I don't do it I am dead in seconds. Its a necessary evil. Most classes have some equally over powered options but its just less obvious.

Have also see the perma blocks. Now stamina doesn't regen wondered how but they have probably got huge amounts of stamina and very low block cost. When 5 people are beating on a single tank and its soaking all the damage and getting away something is very wrong.

The CC immunities are also playing havoc use to be able to knock someone down to stop them shielding up but now that's not an option.

melodeath

i dont think u do..

1vx vids are also most likely done against people that have no clue..

im talking about the fact that i have 3.5k weapon damage without buffs and a sorc was just standing there while i had hit 1 ambush, 4 wrecking blows with light/medium weaved into it.. and the shield barely moved..

how is that a problem on my end ?

vanzan

Shield breaker set rips through them in no time.

sicc

Im not saying things don't need to be tweaked but it's not as bad as some folks make it sound. I have around 2.5k weapon damage on my nightblade and kill sorcs all the time. I can only kill them though 1v1 if they let their shields get low so i can fear then burst them.

Makkir

are you on console?

FriedEggSandwich

I wanna quote myself from another thread:

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Been playing IC for the last 5 hours. In all honesty, inside the confines of IC, apart from slightly reduced regen I actually feel like I've been buffed. Oh zenimax what have you done? I haven't tested it out in the open yet, and things might well change when new sets appear, but basically sorc feels like god-mode atm.

Edit: unless you have more than 3 people on you there is no need to use more than one shield. The other classes are not gonna like this when they find out.

Not a huge amount has changed for the sorc it would seem. I predict incoming sorc nerf.

FriedEggSandwich

sicc wrote: »

Im not saying things don't need to be tweaked but it's not as bad as some folks make it sound. I have around 2.5k weapon damage on my nightblade and kill sorcs all the time. I can only kill them though 1v1 if they let their shields get low so i can fear then burst them.

I have been finding that in many cases, 1v1 mainly, I don't actually need to cc break 100% of the time. The burst from most players isn't enough to get through hardened ward before the cc is over. Maybe they were unoptimised builds idk. It's worrying though.

Johngo0036

LMAO - I have a sorc and also shield stack but fortunately for all of you i really suck at it.....
So I die alot,

@Sicc - Then you are ganking sorcs of my ilk with your NB, lol...
I have ganked many sorcs in my days with my NB, as long as they keep those shields up YOU DIE,

If they drop their shields for a second you in with a chance..... .... As a stamina NB doing through shields in nearly impossible on your own,.. If you get their shiel down and them almost dead they streak away and by the time you get there the shields are back and health is full and magicka seems full coz they come at you with full force.

With a magicka NB you can wittle them down and kill them,

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Why would you think shields are much weaker now? Shields reduced, and damage reduced as well. Not a big difference now, lol.

kaithuzar

There isn't any reason for sorc nerf as soon as people start getting shield breaker everything with a bubble will be here crying (i might be included in this)

Tonturri

kaithuzar wrote: »

There isn't any reason for sorc nerf as soon as people start getting shield breaker everything with a bubble will be here crying (i might be included in this)

Never fear! We can all become heavy armor casters.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Healing ward is super op with lower TTK and any other shield, or low health heal effect. Shield breaker will probably fix that once enough people get it

Tankqull

AshTal wrote: »

Yeah I play a sorc and originally I couldn't work out how people could get such high shields still I worked out I could just spam shields. Works well but kinda stops any attacking. However if I don't do it I am dead in seconds. Its a necessary evil. Most classes have some equally over powered options but its just less obvious.

Have also see the perma blocks. Now stamina doesn't regen wondered how but they have probably got huge amounts of stamina and very low block cost. When 5 people are beating on a single tank and its soaking all the damage and getting away something is very wrong.

The CC immunities are also playing havoc use to be able to knock someone down to stop them shielding up but now that's not an option.

by exploiting some would say cheating via multiple mundus stones, max magica inflating through overload and equipment bugs.

k2blader

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I wanna quote myself from another thread:

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Been playing IC for the last 5 hours. In all honesty, inside the confines of IC, apart from slightly reduced regen I actually feel like I've been buffed. Oh zenimax what have you done? I haven't tested it out in the open yet, and things might well change when new sets appear, but basically sorc feels like god-mode atm.

Edit: unless you have more than 3 people on you there is no need to use more than one shield. The other classes are not gonna like this when they find out.

Not a huge amount has changed for the sorc it would seem. I predict incoming sorc nerf.

Is your sorc a Bastion build (all CPs into Bastion)? With high CPs?

Zsymon

Shield Breaker set completely negates shield stackers, you can just take them down spamming light attacks, works best with the bow. Have one member of your group use this armor, and you're set to destroy any shield stackers you encounter. The shield stacker will die even if he/she goes on full defense, there is nothing they can do against this.

So no reason to complain about shield stackers, just use the counter.

About the blocking thing, if a player builds their entire character around holding the attention of a group of players, sacrificing all offense for only defense, what the hell is the problem with that? Why would that need to be nerfed? It's not like these players are killing everyone around them, in fact they are getting 0 kills. The easiest counter to these type of players, are just to ignore them while you focus on everyone else, and then focus on them when there's no one else left. They'll have contributed absolutely nothing to their group.

If people would have just applied this simple tactic, blocking would never have had to be nerfed in the first place.

melodeath

im not a group person. and i dont see why i need a full set to counter 1 ability from 1 class and 1 from the resto staff.. seems dull. i just had a fight with a sorc.. used fear every time the immunity went out, loaded 5 ultimates on him and had 0 downtime on him.. i didnt get his shields down..
this was with my magicka nb with 36k magic/2.3k spell power and 6 spell power pots.. his bloody shields didnt move and he spammed them after every other abbility that he did..

and about the block, i just played on my dk who i never used after getting v14 right after the crag patch.. all i did was use green gear with green enchants and i could hold 4 people on me without a problem and at the same time kill people without issues.

if zenimax tells me that nonstop blocking and shield spam was reduced in this patch than i must be hallucinating since i can hold my block just fine.. and sorcs are still shieldspamming like crazy..

also on my nb with the resto staff ward. i can just spam that while people are unleashing everything on me while not breaking a sweat..

yes there are counters to it but class/weapon skills like that are just ridiculous.

and what bothers me most is that sorcs have to use it or else they are a free meal.. wich begs the question where that play how you want slogan of zenimax went since all of them have to use it in order to actually live for more than a second

Gilvoth

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

i feel the exact same way
i think is not cool.

blur

melodeath wrote: »

1 cc and 1 cc break and they are immune to it and can freely spam it.

i have 3.5k weapon damage and know my class..

if 5 of my abilitys dont bring down a shield than the problem is not on my end..

melodeath wrote: »

i dont think u do..

1vx vids are also most likely done against people that have no clue..

im talking about the fact that i have 3.5k weapon damage without buffs and a sorc was just standing there while i had hit 1 ambush, 4 wrecking blows with light/medium weaved into it.. and the shield barely moved..

how is that a problem on my end ?

You know your class and yet you Ambush and follow it up with 4 Wrecking Blows? That's a pretty large contradiction.
As a Nightblade you have a ton of different tools at your disposal, including Fear which is really strong. You wasted a CC break on a WB, and then spammed WB... no Surprise Attack, no Fear, no Icapicating Strike/Soul Harvest. For crying out loud WB has a 1 second animation and one of the most obvious telegraphs, even when clipped.

Now I am not denying shields are strong, however I am definitely saying this sounds like a l2p issue. You had a ton of options.

Add other people into the mix helping you.... that sounds like a group of horrible players. Didn't I just quote you saying 1vX are done against people that have no clue? Were you not just the "x" of the 1vX?

Speely

I would just like to say that designing ONE set (MA-only, at that) that is meant to provide a balance against a ubiquitous game mechanic is illogical problem-solving. Addressing the mechanics of the problem itself seems more reasonable. Imagine if they had addressed Impulse spam by making a set that reflected all AE back at the caster. That would have been silly.

That said, there is no reason Sorc shield stacking should work ANY differently in PvP now according to the patch notes. Damage was reduced as well, so stacked shields still mitigate the same percentage of damage, making the Ward combo still golden. And again, sure Shield Breaker users will enjoy some easy kills, but then you are just once again forcing popular metas that discourage diversity.

Either:

A) Change the way shields work so that they operate like buffs and overwrite each other,

Give the classes a range of morphs that affect shields in various ways, not one set that harms people using them via an idle LMB click. I seriously think Shieldbreaker is the most crappily-designed set ever and reeks of a quick fix. Shields should still be desirable... They just shouldn't be an overarching freaking theme. OR

C) Prevent those using more than one damage shield from gaining CC immunity while using them and up until 1 second after they expire. This is my fav option. Stack all you want, but risk CC lock. Relegates it to risk vs reward and lets players work it out on the field.

Granted these are just spitballs. All are better than Shieldbreaker, though.

(I don't like the idea that all damage shields should scale off of Health. It's crude and again limits diversity, and would only lead to a meta involving huge Health totals and everyone complaining that not enough skills synergize with tanks, et al, ad nauseum.

Note: I have a Temp and a NB. No high-level Sorc. Don't care for them or DKs at all.

FriedEggSandwich

k2blader wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I wanna quote myself from another thread:

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Been playing IC for the last 5 hours. In all honesty, inside the confines of IC, apart from slightly reduced regen I actually feel like I've been buffed. Oh zenimax what have you done? I haven't tested it out in the open yet, and things might well change when new sets appear, but basically sorc feels like god-mode atm.

Edit: unless you have more than 3 people on you there is no need to use more than one shield. The other classes are not gonna like this when they find out.

Not a huge amount has changed for the sorc it would seem. I predict incoming sorc nerf.

Is your sorc a Bastion build (all CPs into Bastion)? With high CPs?

I have 215cp and 52 in the bastion. I just thought that was normal. Hardened Ward was 12k in 1.6, can't remember what it is currently.

NGP

melodeath wrote: »

i wonder why i still see every sorc with 2-3 shields while beeing nuked by 5+ people while still beeing able to maintain those shields (refreshing them)
i wonder why i still see people holding block for more than 2 minutes against 5+ people ..

i dont usually whine about balance but as i was looking forward to a patch that finally got rid of those things and seeing that they are still there kind of makes me pissed off..

Cos they have tons of cp. And one of them can break all my shields and empty my health bar within 5 seconds.

xaraan

Quit asking for zos to make the game easy mode so you can just spam attacks and watch stuff die without having to put any work into it. If you have five people and can't kill one guy, it's not the game. No matter his build. The issue is with the five people attacking.

olsborg

Shieldstacking should go away, I agree. having classshield+dampen magicka+healing ward is just stupid.

Shieldspamming however is fine imo, unless you also wanna make it so you can only block for 1 second then wait 3 seconds before you can block for 1 second again and same with healing.