PVP quirks

Solanum

I've no proof of the 70% penetration to be honest, just mentioned by someone in this thread and it would not surprise me.

Brief testing with an epic mace, compared to a legendary sword showed better damage with the mace at the moment (tested on mobs)

Did some tests yesterday to see whether macroing my animation cancelling would make a difference, got some mixed results. When doing it manually it mostly works reliably, occasionally lag causes me to miss an ability, or sometimes quite a bit of the animation plays when I cut it too much slack.

However, when using a macro I get very mixed results, between the ability not responding from time to time, or working flawlessly and just showing a glitchy block animation which I've become quite familiar with in PVP. The kind which initially made me wonder "How the hell is this person dealing tons of damage while simply blocking?"

I don't know about you guys, but when I'm PvPing I'm not able to get the twitchy permablock animation going by normal manual gamplay, while also actually fighting my opponent in a decent fashion. I don't find it entirely unlikely that those guys have been using the macro.

Seeing how animation cancelling takes but a minute to figure out once you know how to do it, that it can easily be put into a macro by every newbie out there, and that it mostly increases the difference between those with a reasonably high, and those with a reasonably low latency, I think it adds very little to the game.

I also don't see why people defend it tooth and nail, I personally don't particularly enjoy the wonky glitched out block looks, or my damage based on how badly Cyrodiil is lagging out today.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Solanum wrote: »

Enjoy Sauronhood!

On a serious note, I've no idea how it is on consoles. But looking forward to your results with the cheesiest builds.

Would be cool if you could also do a comparison to a unusual build, fullplate stamina Nightblade for example.

Day 1 results were inconclusive. I was never able to get into PVP because of the queue time, however I did bring ridiculously cheesy build into PVE and it only made me worse. 4 toggles, (inner light, repentance, entropy, and expert hunter) plus radiant oppression was just too limiting, and kind of redundant.

After some practice I removed inner light and switched it with reflective light (same crit bonus, more damage, crit just isn't "always on"), found expert hunter pretty useless for how I fight, and surprisingly found that I really don't need repentance. My new skill bar afterwards was much better for me. New skill bar is breath of life, reflective light, entropy, radiant oppression, and charging maneuvers. Practiced Incantation and Soul whatever are my ultimate a. I use the same skills on each bar (except for the ultimate) to limit incorrect button presses.

Doing this set up made me waaaaaaay better than any of the broken skills could.

Conclusion: Not getting into Cyrodiil made my results incomplete but I am now more certain than ever that a good build built specifically for your skill set as a player is better than the cheesiest Sauron build you can make. I'm going to stop short of saying "learn to play" but instead I'm going to say, realize how you play and pick skills that make you do that better.

Rinmaethodain

YES! GO AWAY WITH ANIMATION CANCELLING

I was overjoyed when in last eso live they said that they are starting to look into animation cancelling issue.

I really hope they are going to fix it and dont allow such thing anymore.

Cry me a river PVP exploiters.

Ahzek

@MaximusDargus
I am sorry to tell you, but in an earlier ESO live they actually sadi that they had "embraced animation cancelling" into their desing philosophy since they feel like it brings a different layer of skill to the game.
I dont remember the exact episode, but it was a few months back and the statement came from Eric Wobble himself during a Q&A segment.

Conclusively I find it rather unlikely that they will actually remove animation cancelling any time soon.

Leandor

Ahzek wrote: »

@MaximusDargus
I am sorry to tell you, but in an earlier ESO live they actually sadi that they had "embraced animation cancelling" into their desing philosophy since they feel like it brings a different layer of skill to the game.
I dont remember the exact episode, but it was a few months back and the statement came from Eric Wobble himself during a Q&A segment.

Conclusively I find it rather unlikely that they will actually remove animation cancelling any time soon.

I do hope that statement from last week marks a change in philosophy. Animation cancelling (automated or manual) and its efficiency is strongly influenced by latency. Players forced to play with high (100+) latency values will never achieve the same rate than players with low (30-) latency values.

Making the game this dependent on internet connection quality makes me remember when I switched from 56k to ISDN for Quake II. It was a veritable "what the mofoing tartarus" moment. I do hope that the system gets changed in a way where 100 or even 200 ms latency will not make a difference. Keep animation cancelling to a certain extent if you so wish, but make sure latency does not continue to be an issue.

Rinmaethodain

What im talking about was said in very recent eso live and came from the Animation Director Sean Miller in Episode 22: July 17

The very second he said that, the chat got spammed with PVP exploiters crying "dont fix animation cancelling"

Most_Awesome

Lol ZoS have never embraced animation cancelling, it was an unintended feature that players found when the game launched, and there was nothing they could do at the time to fix it. To fix it at such an early stage would have ment pull the game offline so they removed skills that sped up attack animations and said it is what it is at this time being.

Animation cancelling to me is horrible and game breaking, And it also makes me laugh at all the defenders of it and macro abuse.

Players who just play the 1 class have it even easier with macros for example with a razor naga mouse say I have surprise attack at button 2 I can set a macro up that when I press button 2 I do a surprise attack>block, yes you can do this manualy but it would need two buttons pressed vs one. I could also set up a gank macro to say button 8 for an Ambush>surprise attack>light attack>soul harvest>block.

That's just the NB then we can go onto the sorcs shields......yep you can animation cancel shields so hit button 5 for ward and ward>block button 4 harness magica>block button 3 healing ward>block etc. etc

Yes all this can be done manualy if you have very quick fingers, but it can also be done with no effort what so ever, and then when you mix in skilled players with these short macros you end up with how ESO PvP is now.

Ahzek

Regarding the animation cancelling part of your resonse @Most_Awesome I can only repeat what wobble stated himself (he even went so far to say they develop new sets like the undaunted 5 piece ones with animation cancelling in mind to promote it further).
However you are correct that it was an unintended side effect of the animation priority system they put in place to aloow for more combat fluency.
This was also the reason they decided not to remove it in the earlier stages of the game, since they didnt see a way to make the combat feel responsive enough without it.

The macros you are mentioning in your post actually would have very little use in my experience. Block cancelling shield casts, while seeming faster, actually does not speed up the time untill you can cast your next shield. Similary setting a certain queue of skills up in a macro does seem rather foolish to me since you can never be sure if you want to execute your actions in that very order.
The only uses i can see for macros are light attack and bash weaving after /before certain skills so you dont have to go through the effort yourself, which is hardly game breaking.
Note: I never used a macro in this game so im only judging from an objective perspecive what macros could be useful from my point of view.

In the end macros are against the ToS and I would support actually enforcing those in any way in game, also regarding true exploits like the mundus bug or the overload toggeling. However i just cant see what issue people have with manual animation cancelling other than that they are for some reasons (reaction time ? latency ? ...) unable to perform it themselfes and thus feel like they are at a disadvantage, which they are.

Ezareth

Xael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Pobeda wrote: »

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

I don't think you understand what animation cancelling is. Animation cancelling doesn't allow you to use more skills. You're limited by global cooldowns. Animation cancelling an ability allows you to follow it with a light attack or dodge roll or block instead of waiting for the full animation to finish. You get minor benefits from it depending on the application but its purely a skill thing and everyone can do it with fair reaction times.

Xael wrote: »

Pobeda wrote: »

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

Case in point of people not understanding what animation cancelling is or how it works in ESO.
Nobody is going to have pre programmed abilities and skills and perform well, particularly in Cyrodiil lag. This is absurd. More importantly it's not realistic nor does it provide any window for CCs or other variables. Sorry, this is just an ignorance compounded by fear and frustration.

@Ezareth like CP boogeymen and various other white whales, I am pretty sure maces work as intended. I will run tests tonight and pm you the feedback.

Awesome! I'd love to out that one to rest. I saw one guy post his focus rating double upon equipping a second mace but no actual evidence of 70% penetration. From there everyone just pretty much ran with it.

@Ezareth in case you don't want to wait until tomorrow, they seem to be working as intended, dual wield that is.
I have a 20 minute video showing the dispelling different stuff, camo hunter, maces, etc.

Awesome! Pretty much what I figured and what I've observed so far in my using them. I guess I'm not an exploiter after all. What a relief! (lol)

Ezareth

Solanum wrote: »

I've no proof of the 70% penetration to be honest, just mentioned by someone in this thread and it would not surprise me.

Brief testing with an epic mace, compared to a legendary sword showed better damage with the mace at the moment (tested on mobs)

Did some tests yesterday to see whether macroing my animation cancelling would make a difference, got some mixed results. When doing it manually it mostly works reliably, occasionally lag causes me to miss an ability, or sometimes quite a bit of the animation plays when I cut it too much slack.

However, when using a macro I get very mixed results, between the ability not responding from time to time, or working flawlessly and just showing a glitchy block animation which I've become quite familiar with in PVP. The kind which initially made me wonder "How the hell is this person dealing tons of damage while simply blocking?"

I don't know about you guys, but when I'm PvPing I'm not able to get the twitchy permablock animation going by normal manual gamplay, while also actually fighting my opponent in a decent fashion. I don't find it entirely unlikely that those guys have been using the macro.

Seeing how animation cancelling takes but a minute to figure out once you know how to do it, that it can easily be put into a macro by every newbie out there, and that it mostly increases the difference between those with a reasonably high, and those with a reasonably low latency, I think it adds very little to the game.

I also don't see why people defend it tooth and nail, I personally don't particularly enjoy the wonky glitched out block looks, or my damage based on how badly Cyrodiil is lagging out today.

Because nothing is more boring than only being able to do a single action every GCD. Animation cancelling allows you to do *something* in the space between mouth-breather reaction times.

I also like to hide a lot of the broadcasted animations of abilities to sort of "cloak" my use of them....like Absorb Magic. A sorc has no idea he's continuing to heal me every time he spams crushing shock on me. Stuff like that.

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Lol ZoS have never embraced animation cancelling, it was an unintended feature that players found when the game launched, and there was nothing they could do at the time to fix it. To fix it at such an early stage would have ment pull the game offline so they removed skills that sped up attack animations and said it is what it is at this time being.

Animation cancelling to me is horrible and game breaking, And it also makes me laugh at all the defenders of it and macro abuse.

Players who just play the 1 class have it even easier with macros for example with a razor naga mouse say I have surprise attack at button 2 I can set a macro up that when I press button 2 I do a surprise attack>block, yes you can do this manualy but it would need two buttons pressed vs one. I could also set up a gank macro to say button 8 for an Ambush>surprise attack>light attack>soul harvest>block.

That's just the NB then we can go onto the sorcs shields......yep you can animation cancel shields so hit button 5 for ward and ward>block button 4 harness magica>block button 3 healing ward>block etc. etc

Yes all this can be done manualy if you have very quick fingers, but it can also be done with no effort what so ever, and then when you mix in skilled players with these short macros you end up with how ESO PvP is now.

Another prime example of a player with no understanding of how animation cancelling works because he's never bothered learning.

Latency has nothing to do with animation cancelling either as it is all done on the *client* side. So much misinformation out there from people who obviously never PvP.

I spent my first year of ESO without ever having bothered with animation cancelling. Eventually though I just found myself bored or looking for something to do in the space between actions and so I set about learning to animation cancel.

"Macroing" is just a *** phrase that people use to explain things they dont understand. Ask *any* pro PvP player out there if they think macroing is an issue in PvP and they'll laugh at you. There is nothing a macro could do better in PvP than a player can, especially because of latency. If we played in a lagless game there might be some minor improvements you could handle with a macro but in the game as it stands today it would screw you up far more than it would help you.

If someone is beating you...99.9% of the time its because they're better than you, not Macroing, not animation cancelling exploits or other garbage.

Pobeda

Ezareth wrote: »

If someone is beating you...99.9% of the time its because they're better than you, not Macroing, not animation cancelling exploits or other garbage.

Hi, macroser! Your defending proof you one of the exploiter and you don`t want lost 1 IWIN key. I ask many propvpers about macroses and most of them know about it and don`t like it. Couse whith their propvp skills they can`t counter 30k+ damage in a second. Some doing 50k damage in a second. And when they see someone start using it - they report it. But it helpless couse ZOE not ban exploiters. They love cheaters, exploiters and other scum. I don`t know why, maybe in childhood they been many times bitten in school and have Stockholm syndrom now.... Anyway stop defending exploit.

Ezareth

Pobeda wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't think you understand what animation cancelling is. Animation cancelling doesn't allow you to use more skills. You're limited by global cooldowns. Animation cancelling an ability allows you to follow it with a light attack or dodge roll or block instead of waiting for the full animation to finish. You get minor benefits from it depending on the application but its purely a skill thing and everyone can do it with fair reaction times.

It`s you not understand how it work. I test on my g13, my naga and other keyprogrammed devices to make macroses to cancel animation several skills. And it work. You dumb exploiter - I know you defend this exploit - couse you use it. It possible and can easy do it (but not need, couse I hate exploiting - I even not use tab targeting - couse it noob choise to play) - to make 5-7 skill in less a second. And all knowing about macrosers on pvp - they deal 7 different skills in 1 shoot. Not snipe, not traveling long time. But instacasting skills. So go exploit more. Couse when someone like you start playing normal - you suck as noob.

It's simple...you're lying because what you're describing is impossible...and to top that off you're butchering the English language.

A macro is a sequence of actions that an input device can use to chain button presses together. You can't duplicate what you're describing by doing this by hand...which is no different than what a macro can do. It is bound by the game mechanics which only allow a single ability to be used within the span of the GCD. I could spam 50 key presses together in the space of a second and I'm not going to perform 50 actions.

People like you are the reason most people ignore the people who have valid complaints of people using *real* exploits.

And if you're not using tab targeting you're going to continue to be a terrible player that cries "exploit!" every time they die to a player with more skill than them.

Solanum

Ezareth wrote: »

Latency has nothing to do with animation cancelling either as it is all done on the *client* side. So much misinformation out there from people who obviously never PvP.

I spent my first year of ESO without ever having bothered with animation cancelling. Eventually though I just found myself bored or looking for something to do in the space between actions and so I set about learning to animation cancel.

"Macroing" is just a *** phrase that people use to explain things they dont understand. Ask *any* pro PvP player out there if they think macroing is an issue in PvP and they'll laugh at you. There is nothing a macro could do better in PvP than a player can, especially because of latency. If we played in a lagless game there might be some minor improvements you could handle with a macro but in the game as it stands today it would screw you up far more than it would help you.

If someone is beating you...99.9% of the time its because they're better than you, not Macroing, not animation cancelling exploits or other garbage.

Sorry, but you have me confused here, first you point out that latency has absolutely nothing to do with animation cancelling, at all, because it is all done on the client side. Then you proceed to argue that macro's don't work because of the latency.

You contradict yourself.

Most_Awesome

"Because nothing is more boring than only being able to do a single action every GCD. Animation cancelling allows you to do *something* in the space between mouth-breather reaction times."



"I spent my first year of ESO without ever having bothered with animation cancelling. Eventually though I just found myself bored or looking for something to do in the space between actions and so I set about learning to animation cancel."


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

SturgeHammer

I find the odd animations (or lack thereof) that are a side effect of animation canceling to be quite ugly. All these choppy, half finished animations are just not satisfying to me on an aesthetic level.

Septimus_Magna

Animation cancelling can/should be praticed in pve as well, its a skill bases game mechanic which isnt difficult to learn.

A big part of pvp is working out what setup works for you, I have been pvping each day for a half year now and I still change my gear, skills and bar setup. The most difficult part is learning how to counter other classes/builds with a certain tactic, morph choice or gear setup. There is not a single best setup, everything has its counters. To be successful you need to recognize classes, builds and even setup (regen vs spell dmg for example).

It takes a while to learn how to deal with everything, dont worry you will get better if you try to improve yourself. There are some really useful pvp build videos on youtube (sypher, deltia etc) watch/analize them and adjust them to your needs.

The most dedicated pvpers have been pvping for over a year so it takes a while to catch up.

Ezareth

Solanum wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Latency has nothing to do with animation cancelling either as it is all done on the *client* side. So much misinformation out there from people who obviously never PvP.

I spent my first year of ESO without ever having bothered with animation cancelling. Eventually though I just found myself bored or looking for something to do in the space between actions and so I set about learning to animation cancel.

"Macroing" is just a *** phrase that people use to explain things they dont understand. Ask *any* pro PvP player out there if they think macroing is an issue in PvP and they'll laugh at you. There is nothing a macro could do better in PvP than a player can, especially because of latency. If we played in a lagless game there might be some minor improvements you could handle with a macro but in the game as it stands today it would screw you up far more than it would help you.

If someone is beating you...99.9% of the time its because they're better than you, not Macroing, not animation cancelling exploits or other garbage.

Sorry, but you have me confused here, first you point out that latency has absolutely nothing to do with animation cancelling, at all, because it is all done on the client side. Then you proceed to argue that macro's don't work because of the latency.

You contradict yourself.

Do you understand what GCD is? It is a client side timer that stops abilities from being used successively. If your GCD were controlled by your latency this game would run like a bowl of slop for most people. I don't have very low pings and I've never had any issues with animation cancels. Where latency impacts me is where I'm waiting on abilities to fire which is a server side response. Your client can send whatever commands you want to the server but ultimately the server controls what abilities have successfully executed.

Not sure what is contradictory about that to you.

Now there *are* known exploits which I wont repeat here that allow you to execute many abilities at once by introducing "lag" that is nonexistent to your *Client*. That has nothing to do with macros or animation cancelling and everything to do with an actual exploit or "Hack" if you want to term it as such.

Solanum

@Ezarath
Global cooldowns do not change, whether I manually hit the buttons or macro them. No difference. I don't know why you are trying to convince us that latency would affect macro's but not manual animation cancelling, it's nonsense.

That said, the way animation cancelling currently works, let's you basically have a light attack in front of every bloody ability you use. It's not a very complicated trick, whether you macro it or do it manually. Nor is it in my opinion a sign of skill, or good gamedesign.

There is no skillful decision making involved, you throw an attack, you throw a light attack first. It's not like Starcraft where you're preforming several actions and choices per seconds, micro-managing an army. It's just a pointless extra button push before every attack. A easy habit to learn, or if you are unwilling to learn it you can simply macro it.

It doesn't make the gameplay more enjoyable, and the glitchy graphical effects don't add to my game experience either. All in all, it's a really pointless extra action, without any drawbacks for the person using it.

ZOS_Markus

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Xael

@ZOS_Markus

Markus?

Ahzek

@Solanum Instead of typing it out i will just leae this video here to show how animation cancelling adds to the skill requirement in combat and provides the game with a more responsive feeling in combat.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9TU43Yi5mAE

Torbschka

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Holy hell, that turned into a huge wall of text..... all because someone wandered into cyrodiil expecting to own everyone in sight with those sharp first-person shooters skills, got rekt -> QQ

exactly my thoughts xD

danno8

Solanum wrote: »

@Ezarath
Global cooldowns do not change, whether I manually hit the buttons or macro them. No difference. I don't know why you are trying to convince us that latency would affect macro's but not manual animation cancelling, it's nonsense.

That said, the way animation cancelling currently works, let's you basically have a light attack in front of every bloody ability you use. It's not a very complicated trick, whether you macro it or do it manually. Nor is it in my opinion a sign of skill, or good gamedesign.

There is no skillful decision making involved, you throw an attack, you throw a light attack first. It's not like Starcraft where you're preforming several actions and choices per seconds, micro-managing an army. It's just a pointless extra button push before every attack. A easy habit to learn, or if you are unwilling to learn it you can simply macro it.

It doesn't make the gameplay more enjoyable, and the glitchy graphical effects don't add to my game experience either. All in all, it's a really pointless extra action, without any drawbacks for the person using it.

You can also Bash after you use your skill. So Light Attack (or heavy attack if you have the wind up time)-> Skill-> Bash, is afaik the most you can accomplish while you wait for the 1 second GCD from the Skill to finish up.

Of course many things can proc from those 3 button press. Things like Expert Hunter, Burning Light etc...

NB Ambush is even worse since it takes about 1 second to get to your opponent so the GCD is finished right when you get hit allowing for an immediate light attack-> Soul Harvest-> Bash. All of this registers in around 1-1.5 seconds. It can be brutal. Especially from stealth since you will get stunned and the animation break takes linger than the full combo. You will likely get hit with a Surprise Attack before you can control your character again.

But that is why they are reducing damage by an extra 30%. To allow more response time.

MmmmTofu

its beyond my understanding why its possible to have 3-quarters of ability visual cues not even play out, in a minimalistic UI system that heavily relies on visual cue.

Ezareth

Solanum wrote: »

@Ezarath
Global cooldowns do not change, whether I manually hit the buttons or macro them. No difference. I don't know why you are trying to convince us that latency would affect macro's but not manual animation cancelling, it's nonsense.

That said, the way animation cancelling currently works, let's you basically have a light attack in front of every bloody ability you use. It's not a very complicated trick, whether you macro it or do it manually. Nor is it in my opinion a sign of skill, or good gamedesign.

There is no skillful decision making involved, you throw an attack, you throw a light attack first. It's not like Starcraft where you're preforming several actions and choices per seconds, micro-managing an army. It's just a pointless extra button push before every attack. A easy habit to learn, or if you are unwilling to learn it you can simply macro it.

It doesn't make the gameplay more enjoyable, and the glitchy graphical effects don't add to my game experience either. All in all, it's a really pointless extra action, without any drawbacks for the person using it.

I think you meant Ezareth, not sure who Ezarath is. I'm also not sure what you're saying. It sounds like you're saying the exact same thing I'm saying yet putting me on the opposite side of the issue?

Animation cancelling doesn't allow you to chain abilities with a GCD together, only abilities that have their own GCD which are light attack, Block, bash, dodge roll, and jump as far as I know.

The reason it *IS* skillful and the reason using a macro as a skilled player is *** is because sometimes you cancel animation cancel a dodge roll, sometimes a block and sometimes a light attack. It isn't difficult to do at all and with a day of practice you'll be as good as anyone else at it. The reason I think it *is* skillful is because you're able to use it to slightly speed up some actions in the game, or decrease a window of vulnerability for other actions and know what to do when in a millisecond in PvP is something that takes skill and training. It's not like we're doing some boring PvP rotation of crushing shock / light attack spam ad infinitum.

In all my time of animation cancelling I've never seen a "glitchy" animation, just one that is cut off shortly and replaced with the animation of the next ability that I'm performing (such as block).

ZOS_Markus wrote: »

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Did a moderator post get.....moderated?

Ezareth

danno8 wrote: »

Solanum wrote: »

@Ezarath
Global cooldowns do not change, whether I manually hit the buttons or macro them. No difference. I don't know why you are trying to convince us that latency would affect macro's but not manual animation cancelling, it's nonsense.

That said, the way animation cancelling currently works, let's you basically have a light attack in front of every bloody ability you use. It's not a very complicated trick, whether you macro it or do it manually. Nor is it in my opinion a sign of skill, or good gamedesign.

There is no skillful decision making involved, you throw an attack, you throw a light attack first. It's not like Starcraft where you're preforming several actions and choices per seconds, micro-managing an army. It's just a pointless extra button push before every attack. A easy habit to learn, or if you are unwilling to learn it you can simply macro it.

It doesn't make the gameplay more enjoyable, and the glitchy graphical effects don't add to my game experience either. All in all, it's a really pointless extra action, without any drawbacks for the person using it.

You can also Bash after you use your skill. So Light Attack (or heavy attack if you have the wind up time)-> Skill-> Bash, is afaik the most you can accomplish while you wait for the 1 second GCD from the Skill to finish up.

Of course many things can proc from those 3 button press. Things like Expert Hunter, Burning Light etc...

NB Ambush is even worse since it takes about 1 second to get to your opponent so the GCD is finished right when you get hit allowing for an immediate light attack-> Soul Harvest-> Bash. All of this registers in around 1-1.5 seconds. It can be brutal. Especially from stealth since you will get stunned and the animation break takes linger than the full combo. You will likely get hit with a Surprise Attack before you can control your character again.

But that is why they are reducing damage by an extra 30%. To allow more response time.

The nightblade is also 100% vulnerable during the travel time of that ambush. As far as I understand gap closers can *not* be animation cancelled.

Most of my deaths not to beam are cause by me getting hit mid crit charge and it is in fact often how I time my crystal frag procs when fighting other players using gap closers because during that split moment of time they *cant* block or dodge roll. (you can block at the end of the gap closer however)

yodased

I'll just leave this here.

Animation cancel, smanimation cancel this is something else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXiGkryTiw

Ezareth

yodased wrote: »

I'll just leave this here.

Animation cancel, smanimation cancel this is something else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXiGkryTiw

Yes, I have an entire video of footage of exactly that by many different players.

This can happen during times of latency, A player can be executing their attack combo...but is lagging....the server ends up delivering all of the attacks at once.

And there is also apparently a way to *induce* this sort of lag through certain means which allows you to do the same.

I've seen a templar who "1-shot" practically everyone in my guild including myself which is full of veteran PvPers who are as good as any PvPers out there. When you would look in the combat log however, there would be 5 attacks that hit you...all in the same second.

This isn't an animation cancel issue....its a straight up exploit (or in some cases just some funky lag on the part of the attacker).

geordie0707

*** game is worst pvp online that's simple skilled or unskilled I can't do anything about 8.5 k crystal *** fragments and I doubt any one can its a *** joke

yodased

geordie0707 wrote: »

*** game is worst pvp online that's simple skilled or unskilled I can't do anything about 8.5 k crystal *** fragments and I doubt any one can its a *** joke

Well absorb magic, reflective scale, roll dodge, line of sight are all things you can do against crystal frags. Frags are like eclipse, a wonderful tool against people who don't know how to defend against it.