PVP quirks

Solanum

So, recently I've attempted some PVP again, and it's a mess.

In most games I am an avid pvp-er, and reasonably proficient at it. Aside from MMO's I'm also perfectly comfortable with first person shooters (my current favorite being Nosgoth) so I half assumed to be at least reasonable able to hold my own in Cyrodiil. (Not to mention, I've played this game since beta)

However, there is a suspicious amount of people spamming the smiting dawnbreaker, wielding maces, something something camouflaged hunter and caltrops. Then there is an insane amount of animation cancelling, half the times I don't actually see any animation at all, I just instantly die and quite frequently the total damage done doesn't even add up to my hitpoints.

I'm confident with a bit of time, and some asking around I too can join the legion of animation cancelling quirk abusing PVP-ers. But as much as I enjoy doing well in PVP, I don't really enjoy the idea of having to abuse broken mechanics in order to do so. Sadly enough not doing so will leave me gimped in comparison to other players.


It's reached a point where I can't even blame my fellow players anymore for abusing latency and bugs, because seemingly everyone does this. And I cannot imagine that ZOS wants their players to be nearly forced into this behavior to do reasonably well in PVP.


TLDR:

I would really like PVP based on skill, rather then based on who knows the latest bug or quirk in game mechanics. If I can help to make this happen I will gladly do so, and I believe and hope there are many good PVPers that would like the same. How can we fix PVP?

VincentBlanquin

i hate that animation cancelling crap too, but nowadays its no point to talk about live game. just way for next week to open pts, discover how new zenimax overhaul looks like and talk about that

Xael

Solanum wrote: »

recently I've attempted some PVP again

^Speaks volumes.

You are whining about animation cancelling? Really? Do you PvE? Because that's the only way to get optimal DPS and unless you are whining in a PvE section about those "quirk abusing" players, you are a hypocrite.

Animation cancelling is a big part of the combat mechanics and has always separated the noobs from the skilled. Also this is hardly the "problem" with PvP at the moment. But hey, thanks for coming along and chiming in.

Solanum

Well, I'm confident you'll forgive me to take your thanks with a grain of salt, just like the rest of your rather aggressive post.

I haven't done any PvE since my return, so I can't really judge about what happens there at the moment. My interests are more PVP oriented.

And I can understand that animation cancelling is what "has always seperated the noobs from the skilled".

I would hope there to be a bit more in the future to separate the noobs from the skilled, because currently, thanks to animation cancelling and latency, there is no reaction time available. Someone just executes their well learned trick from stealth, and the fight is over. If this is the epitome of skilled PVP, I'd gladly take the noobish kind, where one actually can respond to the attacks. Making split second decisions, having situational awareness. Perhaps even make resource management a relevant concern again during PvP?

I'd also like to point out, that animation cancelling wasn't my only problem with the current PvP, there are plenty of bugs/quirks in the form of skills that do not work as they should. To make matters worse, the game PvP balance is in the gutter. There is a handful of viable near cookie cutter options available, the rest quite honestly sucks.

Xael

Solanum wrote: »

I would hope there to be a bit more in the future to separate the noobs from the skilled, because currently, thanks to animation cancelling and latency, there is no reaction time available. Someone just executes their well learned trick from stealth, and the fight is over. If this is the epitome of skilled PVP, I'd gladly take the noobish kind, where one actually can respond to the attacks. Making split second decisions, having situational awareness. Perhaps even make resource management a relevant concern again during PvP?

See this is problem right here. Why don't you take a moment to watch a video of skilled players fighting other skilled players.
It will take the above quote and flush it down the toilet. In other words you could not be more wrong about PvP. Making split decisions and having situational awareness are two of the biggest contributors to intelligent PvP. As is resource management. While there are some builds that have resources for a long period of time, several out there still need to manage.

Regarding dying to a stealth attack, put radiant magelight on your bar and you won't instantly die. Also put some defensive abilities on your bar or escape mechanisms. This game is not hard, yet tons of players refuse to use innate abilities, potions, or even terrain to better their situation. Then at the first chance, they blame x class being too strong, or x ability being too strong. They completely remove themselves from the equation. I see this all the time. Hell, on this page there is a thread about hacking/cheaters and its from a level 40 something (i think) newb who gets wrecked because he doesn't use block, dodge, or anything that will better his chance. In fact his opponents do the opposite, and he blames them having 3k CP. It's stuff like this on a regular basis in these forums, day in day out.

Solanum wrote: »

I'd also like to point out, that animation cancelling wasn't my only problem with the current PvP, there are plenty of bugs/quirks in the form of skills that do not work as they should. To make matters worse, the game PvP balance is in the gutter. There is a handful of viable near cookie cutter options available, the rest quite honestly sucks.

For the record, animation cancelling is fine and hardly a problem. Regarding PvP balance, sorry, all I ever hear is x class is OP. Which is almost always a heaping pile of crap. Give me any class at v14 with the right gear setup and I will easily go on a killing spree. All 4 classes are amazing when played well. The only one subpar class/style at the moment is a Stamina Sorcerer.

Solanum

Xael wrote: »

It will take the above quote and flush it down the toilet. In other words you could not be more wrong about PvP. Making split decisions and having situational awareness are two of the biggest contributors to intelligent PvP. As is resource management. While there are some builds that have resources for a long period of time, several out there still need to manage.

Good to see we agree on that. Shame you didn't quite understand it because of the sarcastic way I phrased it. (or perhaps you just like being aggressive an interpret things the wrong way on purpose)

Xael wrote: »

Regarding dying to a stealth attack, put radiant magelight on your bar and you won't instantly die. Also put some defensive abilities on your bar or escape mechanisms. This game is not hard, yet tons of players refuse to use innate abilities, potions, or even terrain to better their situation. Then at the first chance, they blame x class being too strong, or x ability being too strong. They completely remove themselves from the equation. I see this all the time. Hell, on this page there is a thread about hacking/cheaters and its from a level 40 something (i think) newb who gets wrecked because he doesn't use block, dodge, or anything that will better his chance. In fact his opponents do the opposite, and he blames them having 3k CP. It's stuff like this on a regular basis in these forums, day in day out.

I agree that people should have some defensive abilities and escape mechanisms in their build, and use potions, terrain and such to their advantage. But here is something I have an issue with.

If you don't use radiant magelight, you get oneshotted.
If you have Vampirism, the bugged smiting dawnbringer will in fact oneshot you.

Oneshot mechanics like this discourage from build diversity, and lower the skill required for an attacking player tremendously.

Plate is still ridiculously weak compared to the other armors, dodgeroll and damage absorption shields/heals more then compensate for the mitigation plate offers. However, cloth and leather both increase damage tremendously and leather offers some very nice utility trough it's stealth benefits.
A while ago we had the Nirnhoned bug where it would render spell resistance completely useless. Now there are other bugs that still affect the gameplay.

And these things affect the game balance severely.

I could try elaborating my points for ages, but it has become clear to me that you simply do not want to understand it. You rather just disagree with whatever you like to believe I am saying.

TLDR:

I would like build diversity in PVP, and strongly believe that in a game where visual cues are supposed to be important, removing those trough animation cancelling harms the gameplay.

Xael

Solanum wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

It will take the above quote and flush it down the toilet. In other words you could not be more wrong about PvP. Making split decisions and having situational awareness are two of the biggest contributors to intelligent PvP. As is resource management. While there are some builds that have resources for a long period of time, several out there still need to manage.

Good to see we agree on that. Shame you didn't quite understand it because of the sarcastic way I phrased it. (or perhaps you just like being aggressive an interpret things the wrong way on purpose)

Xael wrote: »

Regarding dying to a stealth attack, put radiant magelight on your bar and you won't instantly die. Also put some defensive abilities on your bar or escape mechanisms. This game is not hard, yet tons of players refuse to use innate abilities, potions, or even terrain to better their situation. Then at the first chance, they blame x class being too strong, or x ability being too strong. They completely remove themselves from the equation. I see this all the time. Hell, on this page there is a thread about hacking/cheaters and its from a level 40 something (i think) newb who gets wrecked because he doesn't use block, dodge, or anything that will better his chance. In fact his opponents do the opposite, and he blames them having 3k CP. It's stuff like this on a regular basis in these forums, day in day out.

I agree that people should have some defensive abilities and escape mechanisms in their build, and use potions, terrain and such to their advantage. But here is something I have an issue with.

If you don't use radiant magelight, you get oneshotted.
If you have Vampirism, the bugged smiting dawnbringer will in fact oneshot you.

Oneshot mechanics like this discourage from build diversity, and lower the skill required for an attacking player tremendously.

Plate is still ridiculously weak compared to the other armors, dodgeroll and damage absorption shields/heals more then compensate for the mitigation plate offers. However, cloth and leather both increase damage tremendously and leather offers some very nice utility trough it's stealth benefits.
A while ago we had the Nirnhoned bug where it would render spell resistance completely useless. Now there are other bugs that still affect the gameplay.

And these things affect the game balance severely.

I could try elaborating my points for ages, but it has become clear to me that you simply do not want to understand it. You rather just disagree with whatever you like to believe I am saying.

TLDR:

I would like build diversity in PVP, and strongly believe that in a game where visual cues are supposed to be important, removing those trough animation cancelling harms the gameplay.

Regarding RML and diversity, people are very strange when you tell them to use this ability. Aside from removing the 1 shot, it also gives you spell crit and the ability to hunt down stealthers... for crying out loud its one of the best abilities in the game and you can have it before you are high enough level to enter cyrodiil. It also procs Might of the Guild when you toggle it.

Thing is, while you are correct on some points, you throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. Take for example the Plate statement. Heavy armor is ridiculously strong right now, especially coupled with Nirnhoned. A DK in full heavy armor with Nirn is damn near unkillable. In fact even some Sorcs are finding similar success whilst retaining assloads of regen.

Currently I am a vamp on 2 of my characters that I pvp with and I rarely get 1 shot by Dawnbreaker. That's not to say it's not messed up, it's just the way I play. I know it's going to be fixed in the next patch so there is no reason to complain about it. In fact there is little to actually complain about save random freezes/crashes and the horrid lag that just gets worse as time goes on.

Despite the massive amounts of inane prattling and whining, I don't think balance is really that much an issue. Most whines are based off faulty info like a bugged out unit frame or death recap. While some abilities need an obvious tweak (DoS etc), it's hardly a gamebreaking issue like say Cyrodiil lag. Even if balancing was a huge issue, I would wait until this next PTS to begin discussing things. After all, so many things are being changed, more importantly if they have not fixed the lag in Cyrodiil, a lot of people are going to quit the game anyway, so it really doesn't matter. This update puts ZOS in a precarious position.

Siluen

I am not a very technical person, so I usually have no idea what causes certain hiccups I myself notice in the game. A few things seem to have gotten worse semi-recently that I had not noticed as much before. One of them being, I think what Solanum meant, the lack of visual queues in some situations. I do not know if this is indeed due to cancelling, or if it is bad lag, but I have not changed any of my visual settings on ESO, nor has my own eyesight gotten worse (I have it checked regularly!).

Anyhow, I often do not see these visual queues that tell me what's up with my character appearing. I have had situations where I was confused why my character did not move, even though she was standing up. To later see in the recap that I had been hit with silver bolts (so my character should have been visually knocked down on the floor) or was stuck in talons, which I had not seen appear around my feet (I mean, the visual is usually pretty damn obvious). And quite a few situations where my character went from full health to death and I hadn't the foggiest what just hit me, looking in the recap to see several different abilities that should have been visible or at the very least audible to me.

In a clean UI such as ESO's with action based combat, I feel a bit blindsighted when I can no longer rely on what my eyes and ears tell me. I never really get oneshotted by anything, but the damage going around at the moment is extremely high. Making it all the more important that one should be able to react to what is happening. Hard-hitting abilities that land at the same time, whether it is lag or animation cancelling, give the game more of a "boom headshot!" feel which I personally do not enjoy. Although I have seen sources that the devs are aware of this and wish to address it, so I am quite curious what the patchnotes for PTS are going to look like.

Solanum

Xael wrote: »

Regarding RML and diversity, people are very strange when you tell them to use this ability. Aside from removing the 1 shot, it also gives you spell crit and the ability to hunt down stealthers... for crying out loud its one of the best abilities in the game and you can have it before you are high enough level to enter cyrodiil. It also procs Might of the Guild when you toggle it.

Now, compare this ability to for example "trap beast" from the fighters guild skill line. Despite you defending the current balance tooth and nail, I think even you are inclined to agree that one skill is a near necessity while the other one would only be put on there as a joke?

Xael wrote: »

Thing is, while you are correct on some points, you throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. Take for example the Plate statement. Heavy armor is ridiculously strong right now, especially coupled with Nirnhoned. A DK in full heavy armor with Nirn is damn near unkillable. In fact even some Sorcs are finding similar success whilst retaining assloads of regen.

So, you are actually claiming that Heavy armor is not only viable, it's vastly superior to other armors? ridiculously strong is not a phrase I would use for "I can think of one or two builds where it may be on par with the alternatives"

Xael wrote: »

Despite the massive amounts of inane prattling and whining, I don't think balance is really that much an issue. Most whines are based off faulty info like a bugged out unit frame or death recap. While some abilities need an obvious tweak (DoS etc), it's hardly a gamebreaking issue like say Cyrodiil lag. Even if balancing was a huge issue, I would wait until this next PTS to begin discussing things. After all, so many things are being changed, more importantly if they have not fixed the lag in Cyrodiil, a lot of people are going to quit the game anyway, so it really doesn't matter. This update puts ZOS in a precarious position.

You can't argue that the PvP is fine balancewise, when certain skills are a necessity, or when it requires a certain class to make heavy armor work. Nor can you say it's fine when even you yourself will state that "some abilities need an obvious tweak" when you are only getting "occasionally" oneshotted by those.

And with the current state of animation cancelling it's near impossible to tell when someone is animation cancelling, or actually using a lagswitch of sorts. I've had plenty of times where I got instantgibbed only to be stuck in a bug where non of my abilities would work anymore, except being able to do the "break CC" move to find my character still unable to do anything else. Even constantly I find my char unable to do anything after his death, unless I dodgeroll.

Meanwhile, there are plenty other known issues, in regards to certain abilities, and skills that players take advantage off.
And I'm getting the impression that you, Xael, basically would like to say, "I know *** is bugged, but since you brought up animation cancelling I'm going to try and disagree with you even on topics I agree on, because I like this animation cancelling mechanic and don't want to lose it."

That all said, I also agree with Siluen her post. That is one of the issues that makes the entire PVP experience a lot less fun for me.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I've PVP'd almost every day since console launch, and aside from animation canceling (which barely matters in PVP), I've seen very little of this. Granted if I survive something I won't know what hit me, but my death recaps have not shown any of these abilities. Actually the biggest whooping 1 on 1 I've taken lately was from a VR14 spamming uppercut.

With that said I've decided to turn my character into the cheesiest build I can think of tonight just to see the difference. Since I'm one of the top "learn to play" guys on this board, I figure arming myself with an uber cheesy build will help me put myself in someone else's shoes.

I'll put an update on here by tomorrow. My guess is that I'll either decide that everyone is blowing things out of proportion or I'll magically become Sauron. I'm good but if I'm that good then clearly there would be an issue.

Solanum

Enjoy Sauronhood!

On a serious note, I've no idea how it is on consoles. But looking forward to your results with the cheesiest builds.

Would be cool if you could also do a comparison to a unusual build, fullplate stamina Nightblade for example.

Ahzek

PvP in this game has huge issues no doubt.
Most of these however are rooted in bugs and lag.

Heavy armor would be much stronger if not every stamina build could pick up a mace to ignore 70% of its targets armor. In the end it is meant as a tool to provide tankiness for your charakter and it actually does that job quite well, even though it has to be complemented by other aspects of ones build. Just like all armor types out there.
Similary Dawnbreaker of Smiting would not be that much of an issue if the first DoT tick would not occur with the impact of the ability (which's animation actually has no impact at all anymore and only is there to look good).

CC is a buggy mess sadly. There are numerous instances where the CC status can "stick" on your charackter like @Solanum described, or where CC effects are not displayed properly on screen. Sometimes after performing a CC break your charakter will simply stand up, not consuming stamina and still being CC'd, waiting for you to realize you have to try again. Similary there are instances where CC break just doesnt work at all (mostly involving fear and kockbacks/ups, or where Ou can be CC'd again right during the recovery animation from the CC (double frag knockdown anyone ?).

Regarding incredibly useful abilites such as the glorious "trap beast", "bloodaltar" or "agony" it is simply the game is desinged right now. I would welcome a change to make those abilities more up to par with the rest, but in the end some less useful abilities harm the game way less than over the top abilites, of which we have surprisingly little at the moment due to the combat design.
In fact i would only argue "Steeltornado" to be way too strong at the moment, since it basically outclasses all competition for instant cast PbAoE tools available that are not ultimates (carve ? Impulse ? What is this crap ? )

By the way the quite short TTK on unsuspecting targets is getting a fix in the very next patch with a general 30% nerf to damage dealt across the board (including a similar nerf to most active defenses to make the actually already long fights between equally skilled players not go to infinity even easier).

Edit: No offense to you @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO, but if you actually fell victim to an uppercut spammer I do not think simply upgrading your build will help as much as you think. However it is a sad truth that many of the top tier PvP builds out there do not require much personal skill to pull off. Magicka sorc for example (like what I play myself) has an incredibly low skill ceiling to be somewhat decent with, probably only surpassed by the permablocking DKs of old.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Solanum wrote: »

Enjoy Sauronhood!

On a serious note, I've no idea how it is on consoles. But looking forward to your results with the cheesiest builds.

Would be cool if you could also do a comparison to a unusual build, fullplate stamina Nightblade for example.

I'm thinking I'll run 4 toggles and radiant oppression since I'm a Templar. I can't really think of a cheesier build than that but I'm open to suggestions.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Re: uppercut spammer

I've been hit with everything but the kitchen sink in this game and usually survive. Maybe I just ran into th LeBron James of upper cut spammers but this guy, wow, this guy was different. Mowed through me in maybe 5 seconds. It was wild. I wasn't even mad, I was impressed.

I said to my buddy after it happened, "when the F did Brienne of F'n Tarth start playing ESO?"

Just a one off case that showed me anything in the right hands can be dangerous.

Solanum

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I said to my buddy after it happened, "when the F did Brienne of F'n Tarth start playing ESO?"

This cracked me up. xD

and @Ahzek

You mentioned that a mace to ignores 70% of its targets armor, which is one of those bugs/imbalances that bug me to no end. It is not intended to work this way, people know this. But as a player I'm either bound to figure out these quirks and abuse/use them, or suffer a considerable disadvantage. (because, let's be honest, having 70% armor penetration is nothing to scoff at)

I did mention maces in my initial post for a reason. I'm still proud owner of a two handed sword, without Dawnbreaker of Smiting on my bar. And I'm really glad to see someone with a bit more knowledge and experience not defending the currently broken mechanics with a "it's fine, l2p nub"

Solanum

Another thread which shows why in my opinion animation cancelling is a really hurting the gameplay:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/139523/the-advantage-of-built-in-mouse-keyboard-macros

I've got a similar mouse and keyboard, it would take me less then five minutes to set this up, and have my "skills" separate me from the "noobs".

Without any way to detect this, the only way to really stop it is to fix animation cancelling.

Other people, no doubt are using this, and it annoys me that this like many other things in PvP currently forces me to choose between playing in a decent fashion, or abusing the quirks of PvP.


I want a clear message from the good people @ZOS stating they are addressing this issue, or that they will not and that we have their blessing to club eachothers brains out in Cyrodiil using 70% armor negating maces, while stacking camouflaged hunter between our macro-spam/animationcancelling.

Xael

Solanum wrote: »

Another thread which shows why in my opinion animation cancelling is a really hurting the gameplay:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/139523/the-advantage-of-built-in-mouse-keyboard-macros

I've got a similar mouse and keyboard, it would take me less then five minutes to set this up, and have my "skills" separate me from the "noobs".

Without any way to detect this, the only way to really stop it is to fix animation cancelling.

Other people, no doubt are using this, and it annoys me that this like many other things in PvP currently forces me to choose between playing in a decent fashion, or abusing the quirks of PvP.


I want a clear message from the good people @ZOS stating they are addressing this issue, or that they will not and that we have their blessing to club eachothers brains out in Cyrodiil using 70% armor negating maces, while stacking camouflaged hunter between our macro-spam/animationcancelling.

I gave up responding but you keep whining and taking pot shots. Knock it off. No good pvper is using built in mouse/keyboard macros to animation cancel. Animation cancelling is hardly a problem in PvP currently. You are just creating a scapegoat for an excuse for poor performance.

Just stop. You are very desperate.

Solanum

Xael wrote: »

I gave up responding but you keep whining and taking pot shots. Knock it off. No good pvper is using built in mouse/keyboard macros to animation cancel. Animation cancelling is hardly a problem in PvP currently. You are just creating a scapegoat for an excuse for poor performance.

Just stop. You are very desperate.

No good PVPer needs macro's to animation cancel, however, bet your ass plenty of people still do it.
No good PvPer needs to use a mace, but hell, is 70% armor ignore difficult not to take when it's offered for free.
No good PvPer needs to stack camouflaged hunter, but there is plenty of people that are not good and quite willing to drop this low.

And all of this ruins PvP..

I wonder why you so eagerly defend it, in such a passive aggressive fashion.

Ezareth

Solanum wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

I gave up responding but you keep whining and taking pot shots. Knock it off. No good pvper is using built in mouse/keyboard macros to animation cancel. Animation cancelling is hardly a problem in PvP currently. You are just creating a scapegoat for an excuse for poor performance.

Just stop. You are very desperate.

No good PVPer needs macro's to animation cancel, however, bet your ass plenty of people still do it.
No good PvPer needs to use a mace, but hell, is 70% armor ignore difficult not to take when it's offered for free.
No good PvPer needs to stack camouflaged hunter, but there is plenty of people that are not good and quite willing to drop this low.

And all of this ruins PvP..

I wonder why you so eagerly defend it, in such a passive aggressive fashion.

I don't even know how a macro to "animation cancel" would work in PvP. I animation cancel everything....by hand. A macro would just screw things up and do god knows what.

Does anyone have any hard evidence of a single PvP Mace penetrating 70% of Armor? I'm willing to bet this isn't the case and that it's only penetrating 34% like it should.

Camo hunter stacking is a straight up exploit though.

Pobeda

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

Xael

Pobeda wrote: »

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

Case in point of people not understanding what animation cancelling is or how it works in ESO.
Nobody is going to have pre programmed abilities and skills and perform well, particularly in Cyrodiil lag. This is absurd. More importantly it's not realistic nor does it provide any window for CCs or other variables. Sorry, this is just an ignorance compounded by fear and frustration.

@Ezareth like CP boogeymen and various other white whales, I am pretty sure maces work as intended. I will run tests tonight and pm you the feedback.

Ahzek

@Xael run the tests tomorrow on the PTS

Xael

Ahzek wrote: »

@Xael run the tests tomorrow on the PTS

I can sure.
However I will certainly run a test tonight when I get the opportunity. Far too many people have been parroting the rumor. One thing I have noticed since launch is that players are always finding something to be the scapegoat for their PvP experience. I will message you as well regarding my finding tonight.

PhatGrimReaper

Holy hell, that turned into a huge wall of text..... all because someone wandered into cyrodiil expecting to own everyone in sight with those sharp first-person shooters skills, got rekt -> QQ

Solanum

Yes, asking for enjoyable, balanced gameplay and bugfixes. Clearly fair enough reason to berate the person with aggressive posts.

PhatGrimReaper

Solanum wrote: »

Yes, asking for enjoyable, balanced gameplay and bugfixes. Clearly fair enough reason to berate the person with aggressive posts.

Bruh!! Use the search function before the will of the keyboard warrior kicks in.

There are already 100's of posts about any issues you can think of in PVP right now, but YOU get yourself Rekt a few times and expect ZOS to wave a magic wand to make it all alright instantly.

Nevermind the 1000s of PVPers who have dealt with the bugs/lag/exploits since Beta, once it happens to you it becomes an issue.... where is my LOL button.

Solanum

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Nevermind the 1000s of PVPers who have dealt with the bugs/lag/exploits since Beta, once it happens to you it becomes an issue.... where is my LOL button.

Cute, baiting. I've been here, and pvping since beta as well.

Just because some of it has improved doesn't mean the PvP is fixed.

PhatGrimReaper

Solanum wrote: »

So, recently I've attempted some PVP again, and it's a mess.

LMAO!!

I'm talking actually from Beta until now.

yodased

I posted a video in a different thread. Its a guy killing me from full health with 2 snipers an ambush and 2 camo hunters within 1 second.

Cast time of 1.1 second then ambush while in the air ok i get that but how did he cast the second snipe?

So vast snipe then cast it again and cancel eith ambush so he is hitting me wit h ambush as the first snipe is hitting me and yhe second snipe is on the way?

How does the first snipe not hit me before he ambushes and it all hits at once?

That's not just cancelling there is some strange flight times there

Ezareth

Pobeda wrote: »

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

I don't think you understand what animation cancelling is. Animation cancelling doesn't allow you to use more skills. You're limited by global cooldowns. Animation cancelling an ability allows you to follow it with a light attack or dodge roll or block instead of waiting for the full animation to finish. You get minor benefits from it depending on the application but its purely a skill thing and everyone can do it with fair reaction times.

Xael wrote: »

Pobeda wrote: »

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

Case in point of people not understanding what animation cancelling is or how it works in ESO.
Nobody is going to have pre programmed abilities and skills and perform well, particularly in Cyrodiil lag. This is absurd. More importantly it's not realistic nor does it provide any window for CCs or other variables. Sorry, this is just an ignorance compounded by fear and frustration.

@Ezareth like CP boogeymen and various other white whales, I am pretty sure maces work as intended. I will run tests tonight and pm you the feedback.

Awesome! I'd love to out that one to rest. I saw one guy post his focus rating double upon equipping a second mace but no actual evidence of 70% penetration. From there everyone just pretty much ran with it.

Xael

Ezareth wrote: »

Pobeda wrote: »

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

I don't think you understand what animation cancelling is. Animation cancelling doesn't allow you to use more skills. You're limited by global cooldowns. Animation cancelling an ability allows you to follow it with a light attack or dodge roll or block instead of waiting for the full animation to finish. You get minor benefits from it depending on the application but its purely a skill thing and everyone can do it with fair reaction times.

Xael wrote: »

Pobeda wrote: »

Animation canceling in pvp it one of the worst ideas ever. Why? Couse it so huge depend on ping. And it not ideal. Some play whith 20-30, some wihth 120, some 200+ and all europeans! And every pvp server have own ping parameters. What it mean? It mean that who first press IWIN buttion - win. Who press IWIN buttion? 1 sec delay or instant? So anyone who defend cancel animation it stupid exploiter and "IWIN" noob. And when you can 6-8 skills use in less a second couse cancell animation - it NEVER right way to pvp game. And whith programmed mouses and keybords make macroses on this legal. Couse it not 3rd side program. And never be banned. So stop protect idiotic mistake by ZOS "cancel animation". It must say "cancer animation" - couse it sick of game. And ruin it.

Case in point of people not understanding what animation cancelling is or how it works in ESO.
Nobody is going to have pre programmed abilities and skills and perform well, particularly in Cyrodiil lag. This is absurd. More importantly it's not realistic nor does it provide any window for CCs or other variables. Sorry, this is just an ignorance compounded by fear and frustration.

@Ezareth like CP boogeymen and various other white whales, I am pretty sure maces work as intended. I will run tests tonight and pm you the feedback.

Awesome! I'd love to out that one to rest. I saw one guy post his focus rating double upon equipping a second mace but no actual evidence of 70% penetration. From there everyone just pretty much ran with it.

@Ezareth in case you don't want to wait until tomorrow, they seem to be working as intended, dual wield that is.
I have a 20 minute video showing the dispelling different stuff, camo hunter, maces, etc.