Is dueling good practice for regular PvP?

tinythinker

Or is it really just something for people who are already decent/just want to do 1v1?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

If you've never PVP'd then no. There is no way you can simulate 150 people spamming spells in a tight space. Best tip I can give a newbie is just load up on armor and jump in with both feet. Also, never walk. Either sneak, run or horse at all times.

SirAndy

You'll rarely be alone for a real 1v1 anyways. Someone is going to jump in and either help you or kill you. Just the reality of ESO PvP.

Now, there *are* scheduled 1v1 events that sometimes take place. I haven't been to one in a while, GHH used to organize them on a regular basis but most of them have moved on to other games.

Xqluded

I would more so say yes it is good practice. Any time you are fighting another player whether 30v30 or 1v1 you will be better and know more the next fight.

Put it this way, how many times have you crossed a bridge by yourself to find 15 of the wrong colored symbol above their heads. You learned not to go that way after you respawn. Same situation in 1v1. You learn what skills to use and what not to use for that specific class/build.

ToRelax

You will never be one of the best if you don't fight the others. So yes, it is good practice.
Or look at it this way. It's not really hard to just stay alive in a duel if that's all you concentrate on.
But unless you try to escape (wich you never do in duels anyway) or even then, every player has a limit of what he can survive in open world. If you get overwhelmed by only one good dueler, how could you ever hope to do as well as them when fighting heavily outnumbered?
Dueling is a good way to hone your skills, just because you don't need much skill for some activities in PvP doesn't mean it is not so.

TheBull

Yes and no. It helps testing builds and building confidence, perfecting your craft. Many skills that are awesome in duels are worthless in regular pvp, NB shades for example. They are a must have in duels but damn near worthless outside of.

Xael

TheBull wrote: »

Yes and no. It helps testing builds and building confidence, perfecting your craft. Many skills that are awesome in duels are worthless in regular pvp, NB shades for example. They are a must have in duels but damn near worthless outside of.

Sunshine has it.
Dueling can be compared to sparring IRL. Sometimes you need to get hit in the face to know how to react. Also it's good to get ideas how things work in a 1v1 situation. I think the best thing about it is using it to establish a level head. So you don't freak out the moment sh*t hits the fan.

On the other hand, dueling has some negatives. It can lull you into a false since of security and/or complacency. You also get accustomed to people playing one way when outside of this circle people are doing all kinds of other things. That said, I would do both. Iron does sharpen iron, however eventually wears it out and breaks it.

PBpsy

I think it would actually hinder ones ability to do proper ESO pvp. If you spend too much time dueling you will not have much practice in flawlessly following the crown while spamming Healing springs,Proxy,Steal Tornado and Purge.

Farorin

It's not good practice for AVA PVP. But it is a lot of fun.

For example, I can not win a duel for the life of me. But that is because my whole game plan is to kill quickly from stealth, or from a range. Or to hit and run while a big fight is going on. This translates into me dying really quickly in duels, but doing really well in large scale battles and in ganking scenarios.

pjwb16_ESO

its a good practice, most good duellers you will fight do also very well in open pvp
draw a conclusion from it that you like

Morvul

duelling is a good practice for "small roaming" pvp (i.e: running around solo to sub 6 player groups, trying to find fights and ganks)
duelling does not a whole lot to prepare you for "zerg" or "big group" PvP (i.e: running around in a tightly stacked formation while spamming AoE skills)

if you consider duelling interesting, you probably also prefere the first variant of PvP gameplay, so....

Kas

imho it's crucial practice for the basics (quick break free, when to dodge, what to purge, hw to exploit enemy behavior). if you got that down, it doesen't have much to do with AvA anymore. The builds and playstyles that work for duels often aren't your ideal PvP builds. Blocking, self-pruging and all sorts of HoTs scale very well in duel situations but dodge roles (and even mistform around a rock) clearly dominate when focused by tons of enemies. The shield reflect is incredibly good in 1v1s and pretty much only for meteors in big fights, etc etc.

Still, playing some duels can give you many insights that following a crown won't. The subconcious damage avoidance moves (break free into dodge + cast canceleld by dodge role) will work wonders even when playing in groups. It's a lot easier to feel their strengths and how to use them when solo, though.

I get really annoyed if people in my group have Arank 25+ (or even 30+) and still get ganked the second they fall back a little. (Albeit, there are some nightblade builds that can even one-shot you, but many "group-players" will still die after a moderate hit with focus aim and enough (yet unused) time to break free, dodge and recover. They really should have played solo a lot more and not only enter cyrodiil if a group is up, imho.

Araxleon

Duelers do good in openworld solo for a reason

but yes it does make you better, mainly with resource management and that translates to being good in small scale, but overall in large group AvA it doesnt help that much.

4vX on the bridge on the other hand

Dueling translates to 1vXing its hard to explain more of a experience.

>.< alot of none duelers say we duelers run *special builds* just for 1v1 which is just silly lol

(unless your running support roles for AvA of course you need to switch )

Docmandu

Any practice makes you better.. but duelling can give you the wrong impression, especially when people setup their gear/skillbar before initiating a duel versus a known target. In open world, you don't have the luxury to select your gear and skillbar layout before each fight.

Nevertheless it will help you to keep calm and react to your opponent, which are also useful skills for open world.
What it doesn't teach you, is situational awareness (ie. when to disengage and gtfo because your target's 50 buddies are almost there).. or making thread assessments / target selection during a fight versus multiples.. things like that.

eliisra

Surely makes you a better overall PvP'er and player.

But I dont think duelling improves your chances in large battles that much, it's different game play. Especially because large scale turns into lag fights. Half the things you improve while duelling, aren't even possible to do in big fights.

Large scale is more about situational awareness, seeing the bigger picture or having a helicopter type view. In duels you only pay attention to one player and adjust your entire skill set up to counter him, while all basic action type abilities and mechanics still work with no delay.

Best way to improve your large scale skills is probably pulling loads and loads of mindless upper Craglorn NCP's, the ones that spam Fear, Snipe and Wrecking blow and ground AoE, while downloading so much p0rn that your performance is close to a slide show. If you can survive that for more than one minute, you will be a true hero on the battle field lol.

Soris

eliisra wrote: »

Best way to improve your large scale skills is probably pulling loads and loads of mindless upper Craglorn NCP's, the ones that spam Fear, Snipe and Wrecking blow and ground AoE, while downloading so much p0rn that your performance is close to a slide show. If you can survive that for more than one minute, you will be a true hero on the battle field lol.

Rofl this one is so true.
On the other hand, dueling makes you know your class and it's limits and of course other classes, as your enemy. Teaches you how to predict your enemy by his actions like when will the burst come etc. Teaches you how to properly manage your resources without burning them. And most importantly it improves your reaction times by a lot.

1vX and small scale fights are whole different story but dueling makes you ready for it.

RoamingRiverElk

If you're going to be pvping in anything that is not a huge organized group (and, well, even if you are)... I think dueling is a good way to start with a new character/build. Possibly not so much against a pro dueler, but rather someone with moderate to good skills. You'll have enough time to think about how to react to different kinds of attacks and to work on the damage you're doing.

For testing a new small group pvp build, I'll often try to take a resource in Cyrodiil by myself. The NPCs at resources hit hard enough, and there's both magicka projectiles and melee damage. And you either need something to kill the tower mage with, or need to be able to withstand the additional incoming damage from it at the flag guards.

BigTone

While dueling is fun and honorable, it does not prepare you for the zerg.

Get on your surfboard and ride the wave, don't let it crash into you.

Mr_Nobody

See the difference between dueling and fighting 1v1 or 1vx. Duels are usually pre-arranged and people will slot certain spells/abilities just to win the fight against your class/build. That doesnt happen in open world PvP. I'd say, just solo for a bit, experience all of it, zergy pvp, small man pvp and solo pvp. Once you get ahold of your class you should be ok.

There was a situation once when i rekt some 1v2 and they QQ'd that im the worst templar ever because I jesus beamed them down 1 by 1, okay, so they convinced me to duel them so they would prove how bad I am and/or how good THEY are. They switched their characters and we met in the middle of nowhere, it was a magicka DK who already knew nearly all of my abilities/spells before the fight and I didnt even know what im fighting. He had setup of abilities to completely counter magicka templar and/or my build in particular. The fight lasted for 40 minutes without him or me killing eachother with small interceptions of random AD/EP which I killed instantly without the DK even pulling off. As funny as it is I just decided to run away because it seemed to be endless. Later in the night i find the very same DK in an open field and wreck him in 15 seconds 1v1 just because he didnt have these certain abilities to simply counter magicka templar.

As we, ex DAoC'ers would say...

LOLDUELS.

Ezareth

Kas wrote: »

imho it's crucial practive for the basics (qick break free, when to dodge, what to purge, hw to exploit enemy behavior). if you got that down, it doesen't have much to do with AvA anymore. The builds and playstyles that work for duels often aren't your ideal PvP builds. Blocking, self-pruging and all sorts of HoTs scale very well in duel situations but dodge roles (and even mistform around a rock) clearly dominate when focused by tons of enemies. The shield reflect is incredibly good in 1v1s and pretty much only for meteors in big fights, etc etc.

Still, playing some duels can give you many insights that following a crown won't. The subconcious damage avoidance moves (break free into dodge + cast canceleld by dodge role) will work wonders even when playing in groups. It's a lot easier to feel their strengths and how to use them when solo, though.

I get really annoyed if people in my group have Arank 25+ (or even 30+) and still get ganked the second they fall back a little. (Albeit, there are some nightblade builds that can even one-shot you, but many "group-players" will still die after a moderate hit with focus aim and enough (yet unused) time to break free, dodge and recover. They really should have played solo a lot more and not only enter cyrodiil if a group is up, imho.

Pretty much this.

My first 6 months of playing the game was purely group PvP with almost no Solo PVP.

After awhile I broke away from the group to do some Solo PvP (back in the days when this was much more viable) and I noticed that my skills and reaction times improved tremendously. The longer I solo PvPed the better player I became because I died and I had no one to pick me back up so I was forced to learn to improve. Now when I go upgainst someone who duels all the time I wont have the upper hand, but they wont have an easy time of it either. I don't study what the current meta is for solo duels of every type and I dont change my bars around to counter the build of the person I'm facing in a duel I use the same bars that I do in my 1vX setup.

So what it all boils down to is this.

Want to learn all the basics and the counters and hone your tactics in 1 v 1 situations then you duel.

Want to learn to be a better more well-rounded PvP player who is forced to not only be mechanically sound but also tactically and strategically aware then solo and small group PvP are best.

Want to learn how to wipe zergs, farm the most AP and work on group coordination of accepted tactics and strategy along with a ton of social camaraderie then large group PvP is best.

IcyDeadPeople

tinythinker wrote: »

Or is it really just something for people who are already decent/just want to do 1v1?

Dueling is the only good way to practice and learn to improve your build and player skills for small scale PVP.

Soulac

Since I'm a lazy cat I always try to make a build which works in groups as good as it works in duels.
If you start the game and decide to join some duels, do it. You learn more about your class, more about the other classes and also how to counter your enemys actions.
It's useless if you run with the zerg only, since it doesn't require anything else than pressing one button over and over and following the crown. That doesn't take any "skill" and is very boring in my opinion.
But if you play in small groups or even solo you will see how knowledge in this game effects your PvP session.

Hootnannius

Dueling is not good practice for PVP unless you play under the following conditions:

No weapon swapping due to lag.
No siege works due to lag.
Ultimates do not deploy due to lag.
Loading Screens immobilize you when arriving at large battles near keep/resource.
No abilities work other than Pulsar.

nothing2591

PBpsy wrote: »

I think it would actually hinder ones ability to do proper ESO pvp. If you spend too much time dueling you will not have much practice in flawlessly following the crown while spamming Healing springs,Proxy,Steal Tornado and Purge.

Sad but true, such good combat gone to waste.

PLS Gief smallscale pvp i hate this stelltornado stacking on crown buillshit !!! gives me low fps and high latency

Pobeda

Duels good way to test skills work from other classes (weapons that you not need) and combination of effective builds. Good way find countermesures from some builds. But it give 0 real pvp expirience. Couse real pvp never equal. If you try duels - do it 1 vs 3 or 5, 3 vs 7-9 and so on. 1 vs 1 is just dummy testing. As example - you can 9 from 10 times lost in duels. And can 10 times from 10 kill this guy in real pvp, couse it tactice, hiding, kiting and so on.

Soulac

Pobeda wrote: »

Duels good way to test skills work from other classes (weapons that you not need) and combination of effective builds. Good way find countermesures from some builds. But it give 0 real pvp expirience. Couse real pvp never equal. If you try duels - do it 1 vs 3 or 5, 3 vs 7-9 and so on. 1 vs 1 is just dummy testing. As example - you can 9 from 10 times lost in duels. And can 10 times from 10 kill this guy in real pvp, couse it tactice, hiding, kiting and so on.

We play our duels without rules, everything allowed.
If you want to hide or kite, do it. If your opponent doesn't like that, speak with him before doing it.
In my opinion duels are also important to be able to foresee the actions of your enemy..
You will have duels which are really close or duels which bring a great pressure on you. You also learn how to deal with this pressure in certain situations and also to risk something at some point.

I don't think I would know so much about this game without all these duels..

Pobeda

You never communicate in real pvp "don`t use stealth to kill me". PVP it separate gameplay from duels. Duels themself counterproductive. I see some duelist templars, sorc, dk that going to pvp after hundreds of duels in arena and ruin of pvp for their partymembers. They die quick, couse they learn only 1 style of gameplay - solo dps - who overdps another. He not think about weak sides of his group, about tactical position, about timing. And most time they simplest target. I bad whith English and can`t fully describe how it looks. But only duels have bad influence...
PS - I`m not propvpers. I just in middle, but I have my opinion on this theme.

kevlarto_ESO

outside of being annoyed by players 30 levels higher than me sending duel requests, thank the maker for auto decline.

I do find dueling in games that allow it a way to see how some skills work and how they look animations to look for, that might help in pvp a bit but over all I don't think it does much.

ToRelax

Pobeda wrote: »

You never communicate in real pvp "don`t use stealth to kill me". PVP it separate gameplay from duels. Duels themself counterproductive. I see some duelist templars, sorc, dk that going to pvp after hundreds of duels in arena and ruin of pvp for their partymembers. They die quick, couse they learn only 1 style of gameplay - solo dps - who overdps another. He not think about weak sides of his group, about tactical position, about timing. And most time they simplest target. I bad whith English and can`t fully describe how it looks. But only duels have bad influence...
PS - I`m not propvpers. I just in middle, but I have my opinion on this theme.

I am just trying to imagine those duelers... your discription sounds more like the average PvEer trying out Cyrodiil.

Rylana

If you only duel and you bring that strat and spec to a group fight, you are going to get destroyed

if you only group fight and bring that strat and spec to a dual, you are going to get destroyed

They are not compatible, beyond possibly just understanding game mechanics. Two completely different animals.

The strongest PvPers have experienced both worlds and are willing to change builds and strats on the fly. The more adaptable the better, but there is never one size fits all situations. Not even once.

Dakota_The_D

Probably has already been said, but I would say yes and no. I think those skills are useful, but alot more is needed to be successful in AvA. In a 1v1 fight, the focus is on just you and the opposing player, a "fair fight" I suppose. Alliance war is far from fair. Its your job to make it an unfair fight for the enemy. Situational awareness is key. Knowing when to fight and when to run, kiting enemies, positioning, communication. All of these skills are needed. I really think 1v1 skills take a backseat to tactics in AvA. Why try to duel 1 on 1 when I can just watch a higher level get a few feet too far away from his group, hit him with a proc crystal fragments, and end him.

In other words, a dual is "fair". In AvA, you should never fight fair. Always hit first and on your own terms, and if it goes south, have an escape plan!