So why are stamina dk's getting Nerf'd xD

leepalmer95

No regen when blocking, no dodge roll, yet receiving no buffs like the nb is ?

So taking away survivability without anything else?

Lhorion

No dodge spam = no dodge roll?

Interesting...

leepalmer95

Lhorion wrote: »

No dodge spam = no dodge roll?

Interesting...

I don't spam i block/dodge when i need to, but both of them are getting nerf'd

CP5

Honestly think dk's get off easiest with the block change since they can regen stamina with earthen heart skills, and battle roar now scales to match the resource its restoring. And how do blanket changes count only as dk nerfs?

Ezareth

leepalmer95 wrote: »

No regen when blocking, no dodge roll, yet receiving no buffs like the nb is ?

So taking away survivability without anything else?

Free Vigor for everyone.

LegionIsAll

I'm pure stamina dk . I can only dodge roll 3 times before I can't anymore. That's if I have full stamina. Are they doing it for people that have been v14 for a long time or something ? I'm V1

trimsic_ESO

What has been announced has scared me too. How can a stamina melee archetype manage to defend his life against a magicka class if:
- it's no longer possible to regenerate stamina while blocking
- Dodging two attacks costs more stamina
- Nirnhorned is getting nerf'd

I hope the combat team is playing in Cyrodiil on a live server with a stamina melee class (not a NB) so they know what they are doing.

leepalmer95

CP5 wrote: »

Honestly think dk's get off easiest with the block change since they can regen stamina with earthen heart skills, and battle roar now scales to match the resource its restoring. And how do blanket changes count only as dk nerfs?

ofc there not just DK nerf's but currently the most op classes are Sorc and Nb,
Nb cloak is getting Buff'd/Fixed,
Sorc barriers will still be op and nirnhorned is being fixed so now they'll do even more dmg.
Most templars are magicka.

Erock25

People have to remember that what Eric Wrobel talked about was just a fraction of the incoming changes in the next update. We have no idea what else will be changed. Just FYI however, currently Battle Roar returns scale off of magicka only and in the update it is announced that each stat's return will scale off of their respective stats, therefore it can be assumed that a stamina DK is getting buffed in that regard.

Soris

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

What has been announced has scared me too. How can a stamina melee archetype manage to defend his life against a magicka class if:
- it's no longer possible to regenerate stamina while blocking
- Dodging two attacks costs more stamina
- Nirnhorned is getting nerf'd

Heh go figure. Guess it will be elder skirts and sticks online again.

nordsavage

ZOS has made a tradition of nerfing DK's and limiting stamina builds. They can't wrap there heads around what might work for PvP will break things in PvE. Those changes should be separate just as the shield cuts are for Cyrodiil.

trimsic_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

People have to remember that what Eric Wrobel talked about was just a fraction of the incoming changes in the next update. We have no idea what else will be changed. Just FYI however, currently Battle Roar returns scale off of magicka only and in the update it is announced that each stat's return will scale off of their respective stats, therefore it can be assumed that a stamina DK is getting buffed in that regard.

We won't be able to trigger battle roar quite often. Not sure it will be that useful.

Joy_Division

LegionIsAll wrote: »

I'm pure stamina dk . I can only dodge roll 3 times before I can't anymore. That's if I have full stamina. Are they doing it for people that have been v14 for a long time or something ? I'm V1

(Better) stamina cost reduction runes, more Champion Points, higher regeneration rates, and top end gear is what allows dodge-roll spamming.

leepalmer95

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegionIsAll wrote: »

I'm pure stamina dk . I can only dodge roll 3 times before I can't anymore. That's if I have full stamina. Are they doing it for people that have been v14 for a long time or something ? I'm V1

(Better) stamina cost reduction runes, more Champion Points, higher regeneration rates, and top end gear is what allows dodge-roll spamming.

So only those people with 300 points can infinity spam? , what about the 95% player base that can't?

SturgeHammer

There seems to be a lot of collateral damage with the upcoming nerfs. It would be nice if ZOS would look at some of the feed back and give some builds getting nerfed indirectly some compensatory buffs, but I fear that it is much too close to the deadline to get any in this major update. Maybe next July.

Ezareth

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegionIsAll wrote: »

I'm pure stamina dk . I can only dodge roll 3 times before I can't anymore. That's if I have full stamina. Are they doing it for people that have been v14 for a long time or something ? I'm V1

(Better) stamina cost reduction runes, more Champion Points, higher regeneration rates, and top end gear is what allows dodge-roll spamming.

So only those people with 300 points can infinity spam? , what about the 95% player base that can't?

It has nothing to do with champion points, those only make it easier to do.

I was able to dodge roll 51 times in a row at level 35 with 1800 stamina regen.

You're not a "Stamina DK" if you can only Dodge roll 3 times at Vet1 you're a hold block in heavy armor and hope someone attacks me battlefield ornament.

My VR9 NB can dodge roll infinitely right now.....3200 stamina regen and I don't even have Vet 10 Food or maximum cost reduction enchants yet, yet alone decent gear. That's the problem.

Joy_Division

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegionIsAll wrote: »

I'm pure stamina dk . I can only dodge roll 3 times before I can't anymore. That's if I have full stamina. Are they doing it for people that have been v14 for a long time or something ? I'm V1

(Better) stamina cost reduction runes, more Champion Points, higher regeneration rates, and top end gear is what allows dodge-roll spamming.

So only those people with 300 points can infinity spam? , what about the 95% player base that can't?

No, all these make it easier. I'm guessing you are in heavy armor and don't have stamina cost reduction runes on your jewelry. Heavy armor is designed to block, not roll, so dodge-roll spamming wont happen without the stuff I mentioned.

If, however, you go medium armor and dedicate your build to stamina regeneration / cost-reduction, you can dodge roll quite a bit at VR1 without many champion points.

leepalmer95

Joy_Division wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegionIsAll wrote: »

I'm pure stamina dk . I can only dodge roll 3 times before I can't anymore. That's if I have full stamina. Are they doing it for people that have been v14 for a long time or something ? I'm V1

(Better) stamina cost reduction runes, more Champion Points, higher regeneration rates, and top end gear is what allows dodge-roll spamming.

So only those people with 300 points can infinity spam? , what about the 95% player base that can't?

No, all these make it easier. I'm guessing you are in heavy armor and don't have stamina cost reduction runes on your jewelry. Heavy armor is designed to block, not roll, so dodge-roll spamming wont happen without the stuff I mentioned.

If, however, you go medium armor and dedicate your build to stamina regeneration / cost-reduction, you can dodge roll quite a bit at VR1 without many champion points.

I'm at 1600 stam regen, full reduce cost runes, 7/7 medium armour.

Roll dodging more than 2-3 times will drain your mana, blocking will be useless as you take dmg, don't regen stamina and use stamina anyway. Sure you'll have to time your blocks, but how are you mean't to predict a nb stealth attack?, stamina build use their stamina for dmg, buffs, cc breaking, break free's, dodging, blocking etc... so it goes fast.

Alcast

leepalmer95 wrote: »

No regen when blocking, no dodge roll, yet receiving no buffs like the nb is ?

So taking away survivability without anything else?

Its not only DKs

leepalmer95

Alcast wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

No regen when blocking, no dodge roll, yet receiving no buffs like the nb is ?

So taking away survivability without anything else?

Its not only DKs

Sorc are still going to be Op because of nirnhorn fixing, and dmg reduction and healing reduction.

Nb's are getting a cloak buff/fix so they have another viable build.

Dk's aren't getting anything noteworthy just hard nerf's to survivability. Can't dodge doll, blocking will literally suck stamina.

Templar's still need buffing though i'm guessing 90% will be magicka.

Aren't patches mean't to be balancing, all i see is the two strongest classes are going to get stronger?

CP5

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

No regen when blocking, no dodge roll, yet receiving no buffs like the nb is ?

So taking away survivability without anything else?

Its not only DKs

Sorc are still going to be Op because of nirnhorn fixing, and dmg reduction and healing reduction.

Nb's are getting a cloak buff/fix so they have another viable build.

Dk's aren't getting anything noteworthy just hard nerf's to survivability. Can't dodge doll, blocking will literally suck stamina.

Templar's still need buffing though i'm guessing 90% will be magicka.

Aren't patches mean't to be balancing, all i see is the two strongest classes are going to get stronger?

Buff to battle roar? Least influenced by no stamina regen with the earthen heart passive? Every other class either needs to drop block to let their regen kick in or use a situational skill to regenerate stamina but dk's are built to work around this, but of course, they are the heaviest hit. But hey, people see what they want to.

Erock25

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

No regen when blocking, no dodge roll, yet receiving no buffs like the nb is ?

So taking away survivability without anything else?

Its not only DKs

Sorc are still going to be Op because of nirnhorn fixing, and dmg reduction and healing reduction.

Nb's are getting a cloak buff/fix so they have another viable build.

Dk's aren't getting anything noteworthy just hard nerf's to survivability. Can't dodge doll, blocking will literally suck stamina.

Templar's still need buffing though i'm guessing 90% will be magicka.

Aren't patches mean't to be balancing, all i see is the two strongest classes are going to get stronger?

Only a small part of the upcoming changes were announced. I said this earlier but I guess you didn't read it. Wrobel only mentioned a little tidbit for each class.

Erock25

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

People have to remember that what Eric Wrobel talked about was just a fraction of the incoming changes in the next update. We have no idea what else will be changed. Just FYI however, currently Battle Roar returns scale off of magicka only and in the update it is announced that each stat's return will scale off of their respective stats, therefore it can be assumed that a stamina DK is getting buffed in that regard.

We won't be able to trigger battle roar quite often. Not sure it will be that useful.

@trimsic_ESO What does this even mean? Battle Roar isn't useful after the proposed buff? I'm sure you don't spec it now then because if it isn't useful after a buff of course it is worse than useful now.

tplink3r1

Dodge roll and block nerf = DK nerf?
LOL

k2blader

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

What has been announced has scared me too. How can a stamina melee archetype manage to defend his life against a magicka class if:
- it's no longer possible to regenerate stamina while blocking
- Dodging two attacks costs more stamina
- Nirnhorned is getting nerf'd

I hope the combat team is playing in Cyrodiil on a live server with a stamina melee class (not a NB) so they know what they are doing.

Nirn isn't getting nerfed. It's getting fixed. Glad stam folks will have to face some of the music again.

Prabooo

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Dodge roll and block nerf = DK nerf?
LOL

DK STAMINA BUILD nerf, to be most accurate

CP5

Prabooo wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Dodge roll and block nerf = DK nerf?
LOL

DK STAMINA BUILD nerf, to be most accurate

All other stamina based builds are worse off than DK's from my perspective. Sorc's only have dark deal and how many use it as is? And at the cost of putting down your defenses for so long? NB's have very high stamina regen so they may be able to dodge roll a few more times before the cost becomes to much, but the regen is worthless if it is set to 0 when blocking. And templars can use corpses to restore stamina, very situational. DK's on the other hand get a buffed battle roar and can use any skill from the earthen heart tree for stamina while blocking to bypass the change. So yah, aside from NB's 30% stamina regen passive dk's are better off, and best off in terms of blocking.

Zanen

k2blader wrote: »

Nirn isn't getting nerfed. It's getting fixed. Glad stam folks will have to face some of the music again.

Nirn was a hamhanded stopgap balance measure to try to get magicka builds into some kind of balance pve/pvp wise.

You can call it a fix if you want because it was certainly broke but the devs have said many times they couldn't "fix" it without making other balance changes.

Nirn "fix" hits builds in direct inverse proportion to how dependent they are on shields since shields don't benefit from mitigation, meaning it's a heavy nerf to NB, lesser nerf to Templar, then DK, and no nerf at all to Sorcs stacking shields.

The escape nerfs are also a significant buff to roots.

Stamina DK isn't making out too badly really given what we know, magicka DK is likely to be OP unless there are some big undisclosed changes.

Everything we think we know about 1.7 balance could be changed by one undisclosed adjustment or new gear set though, it's way too early to QQ.

Farorin

All stam builds and tank builds are going to suffer from these changes, not just DKs. Stam Nightblade would suffer just as much, considering that the only buffs we are confirmed to get are for magicka based skills.

Lettigall

Farorin wrote: »

All stam builds and tank builds are going to suffer from these changes, not just DKs. Stam Nightblade would suffer just as much, considering that the only buffs we are confirmed to get are for magicka based skills.

ESOTU 1.7: Revenge of the magic builds!

Joy_Division

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegionIsAll wrote: »

I'm pure stamina dk . I can only dodge roll 3 times before I can't anymore. That's if I have full stamina. Are they doing it for people that have been v14 for a long time or something ? I'm V1

(Better) stamina cost reduction runes, more Champion Points, higher regeneration rates, and top end gear is what allows dodge-roll spamming.

So only those people with 300 points can infinity spam? , what about the 95% player base that can't?

No, all these make it easier. I'm guessing you are in heavy armor and don't have stamina cost reduction runes on your jewelry. Heavy armor is designed to block, not roll, so dodge-roll spamming wont happen without the stuff I mentioned.

If, however, you go medium armor and dedicate your build to stamina regeneration / cost-reduction, you can dodge roll quite a bit at VR1 without many champion points.

I'm at 1600 stam regen, full reduce cost runes, 7/7 medium armour.

Roll dodging more than 2-3 times will drain your mana, blocking will be useless as you take dmg, don't regen stamina and use stamina anyway. Sure you'll have to time your blocks, but how are you mean't to predict a nb stealth attack?, stamina build use their stamina for dmg, buffs, cc breaking, break free's, dodging, blocking etc... so it goes fast.

If you have that spec, you can dodge roll more than 2-3 times. I don't hold conversations with dishonest people.