Fighter's Guild Skills and the upcoming changes to Vampires and Werewolves in 1.7

ToRelax

Pchela wrote: »

Who honestly uses trap beast

@Ahzek

Ace_SiN

I will never understand why people ask for buffs to further lower the skill ceiling.. So what if someone is a vamp? They already receive more damage due to fighter's guild skills and their fire debuff. That's enough.. How about using your skill to kill x player instead of asking for 1 shot procs? There's nothing in game currently that makes Vamps unstoppable like they used to be pre-ult gen nerf.

Fighters guild skill line needs to stand on its own, just like the Mages Guild skill line. ZOS needs to buff/revamp most of the skills so they are appealing on their own, not buff them to 1 shot players. I would like the skill ceiling to be raised at least to a point where an engagement is an actual fight and not Player A 1-2 shotting Player B, before Player B even realizes he's been hit.

Platorian

Sorry, I got as far as the chance to 1-shot a vampire and couldn't read anymore or take it serious.

Zsymon

You want to improve FG abilities, but at the same time you want to completely nerf the only really effective FG ability (Camo Hunter)? None of those changes will matter if we can't hit vampires hard from stealth, and just spamming Bolts until you get an insta kill, seems very lame, no skill required and no counter possible.

Septimus_Magna

Silver Bolts - Needs its old proc damage back, it should have a 10% chance of insta killing a vamp or WW and hitting for a ton of damage. Right now the skill is simply not good enough because even though the proc rate is higher, it only does a fraction of the damage the old Silver Bolts did.

10% is way too high chance to insta gib vamp/ww, I think this skill should have a 8 second DoT against vamp/ww which ticks harder the longer its applied.

Expert Hunter - It needs its proc rating increased to about 25% on undead and daedra.(Camo Hunter 100% proc from stealth reduced to 15% chance for extra damage)

Every attack/hit can proc Expert Hunter so this would make it 100% proc in every burst which would make it way too powerful.

Circle of Protection - Needs to have a 30% Healing debuffed applied to undead and daedra who enter the Circle that lasts 6-8 secs

Nice suggestion but I think the debuff should only be applied in the zone.

Trap Beast - Should have a larger radius, a reduced arm time, do more damage, and disorient and root undead and daedra only.

This skill should be changed to something useful, I havent seen anyone use it as far as I can remember.

Skilled Tracker Passive - Will allow Fighter's Guild Abilities to proc on WW in human form,and will highlight WW just like Vampires if the player has Expert Hunter Slotted. After all untransformed WW are still WW, and you do become a "skilled tracker"

WW's in humanoid form dont have the WW skills so why would they have the weaknesses? Not to mention the incredibly expensive ww ulti which makes it inaccessible 95% of the time.

Dawnbreaker - Its added damage against Daedra and Undead should be increased to 100%..your pulling our Merida's Daedric Artifact, it was created by Merdia for the sole purpose of smiting undead.

This already hits vamps/ww like a truck, my highest damage with this skill is 32k and on average I hit players for 12-16k plus the DoT (with 3.1k spell dmg and 34k magicka).

Slayer Passive - Reduce the bonus from 9% to 6% at rank III

I think the damage bonus is fine, I could live with the addition of damage reduction from vamp/ww skills to this passive.

Vampires and Werewolves lose access to Fighter's Guild skills and and passives and get access back if they cure themselves.

Lol, did you even play the Fighters Guild quest line in Skyrim?

GNRNCSBLSS

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lol, did you even play the Fighters Guild quest line in Skyrim?

Technically the companions, a bit different, but your point stands nonetheless.

WRX

You are the same dude that wants to be able to one shot people with siege.

I am seeing a trend.

Quantine

Sorry, but most of your suggestions are way over the top and kinda reveal that you don't know how to counter vamps (except for camo hunter procs :-)) Vamp has pretty tough trade offs, especially for stamina builds atm (you don't use mistform, cause very expensive, undodgeable whips, low health regen while most ppl don't have vigor, camo procs, dawnbraker of smiting, ridiculous siege damage, etc). Try dueling a good magicka DK as a stam-vamp... In gerenal stamina vamps can work open world but you have to put up with a lot of accidential deaths having nothing to do with anyone's actual skill level. It's annoying.

Magicka vamps synergize a bit better with vamp since they can utilize mist form a lot better (only escape for some classes) and have more healing options with healing ward, mgk based self heals for some classes and ofc shields. However, it's also not easy to sustain vamp.

Not gonna talk much about WW in WW form, cause I don't use it much and I don't encounter so many in Cyro, so can't really say from experience.

My point is, instead of pleading for a way to one-shot people who have learned how to deal with the downsides of vamp/WW in order to get the benefits, just learn how to beat them. This game doesn't need more abilities that proc a 1-shot kill just because people are too lazy to figure out combinations and to learn to have awareness. Those abilities should at the most give you a biiit more dps, so you can in the end of the day come on top if you play cleverly. Not just the mentality of spamming a skill or doing a stealth attack from 30+meters...wow..

Tankqull

Lava_Croft wrote: »

pls buff camo hunter

the only buff it needs is to be able to be proced on blocking/shielded targets

cschwingeb14_ESO

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Then they lowered fire weakness from 50% to 40%

Now they are lowering fire weakness again from 40% to 25%

You missed the part there where they completely nerfed fire resistance, to the point where 3 jewelry enchants plus dunmer fire resistance is now worth less than one jewelry enchants was in 1.5

Nirn is currently making up for that, but playing a vamp without Nirn in 1.6 of very tough against fire staff and DKs

Lava_Croft

Tankqull wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

pls buff camo hunter

the only buff it needs is to be able to be proced on blocking/shielded targets

I think it should also do AoE damage and knock down any Vampire or Werewolf in a 10 meter radius.

RinaldoGandolphi

The point of this posts was to get discussion started and throw out ideas. Mission accomplished.

Right now, in the next update there will be zero incentive not to be 1 or the other. So either they need to provide some incentive to remain normal thats as good or = to vamps or WW, or they need to adjust the FG abilties in some fasion to compensate and make it appealing to stay pure.

If not we will have Twilight Online. Thats pretty much certain.

PS: Of course I started out Over The Top on my suggestions and 1 shots,. you always start negotiations out with demands much higher then what you actually want so you can settle at a position you would be happy with to begin with. I always see suggestions as negiotiing with the community.

Some of the suggestions on this thread are good, keep posting your ideas, its how things grow. Hope everyone is having a good weekend

Septimus_Magna

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The point of this posts was to get discussion started and throw out ideas. Mission accomplished.

Right now, in the next update there will be zero incentive not to be 1 or the other. So either they need to provide some incentive to remain normal thats as good or = to vamps or WW, or they need to adjust the FG abilties in some fasion to compensate and make it appealing to stay pure.

If not we will have Twilight Online. Thats pretty much certain.

PS: Of course I started out Over The Top on my suggestions and 1 shots,. you always start negotiations out with demands much higher then what you actually want so you can settle at a position you would be happy with to begin with. I always see suggestions as negiotiing with the community.

Some of the suggestions on this thread are good, keep posting your ideas, its how things grow. Hope everyone is having a good weekend

Many players are ww but dont use the ulti, I consider them to be ''normal" because there is nothing that shows signs of either vamp or ww. But it would be nice if there was a benefit of staying pure, its kinda strange there isnt any atm.

Ahzek

@ToRelax I am sorry but i dont use trap beast since it gives such a strong advantage in PvP it just wouldnt be fun.
I prefer beating my opponent skill wise instead of relying on the OP trap beast cruch that would make me win basically every fight.

On topic if you seriously consider buffing dawnbreaker damage against vampires i cant halp you sorry. That thing can crit for over 20k on a single cast VS. Them already and makes every fight vs a somewhat vulnerable vampire that is not holding block 24/7 (or stacked out in nirn) a cakewalk where you just wait until your ult is up(wich is hilariously cheap) and then combo them with 2 buttonpresses.

For the record i never was a vampire and i find pretty much all of your sugestions over the top.
(Especially buffing trap beast how could you even ...)

Chrlynsch

They should make the new shrines that they have talked about only usable by humans, as werewolves and Vamps have already picked their path.

dodgehopper_ESO

Silver bolts/Leash should work as a moderate damage attack on everyone. They should operate as an Execute for Daedra, Vampires, Undead & Werewolves. Problem solved. It is the Fighters Guild after all, they fight daedra in this era, but they really are about being warriors and such. I never did like that the leash only works versus monsters, and random damage is frankly too random.

The Trap is a goofy ability and I think almost everyone knows that. I've maxed double morphs on almost every skill on my main character, and that Trap is the only skill I never bothered purchasing. The damage is low, it takes time to arm, and its a garbage cc. Who uses this? If there is some awesome function for this thing please educate me.

Circle of Protection should be more than it really is. The fear morph is awful and honestly should be active the whole time. You should not run out of it and then be able to stand in that circle once again. The Circle Should also have a constant and painful burning DoT for standing in it to daedra, undead, ww, etc. Since the armor and sr are lower magnitude the rune focus I see no reason why it would not work like that same skill, and keep those benefits up for 8 seconds when you step out of the ring. More people would use this ability if those changes were met.

Expert/Evil/Camo Hunter is a skill I like, although I'm not in favor of 'chance for' skills. I'd rather just see some kind of steady %Dmg boost that works every time, but that's just my personal preference.

Dawnbreaker is a fantastic ability, probably made even better on a class like Dragon Knight who can get Battle Roar and a weapon damage boost out of it.

I agree they need a good counterpoint to WW/Vampire but I can't help but wondering that a more Aedric oriented skill line might be more appropriate, perhaps something dedicated to Stendarr. After all the Fighters Guild is so integral to the storyline (and there are obvious examples of them being compromised evident in the playthrough).

heystreethawk

Dawnbreaker is an absolutely insane ult, particularly considering the cost. I popped it off on a juicy stack last night and got a really arrogant-sounding amount of killing blows. My vamp friends complain about it often; I myself have no complaints.