40k damage shield - will it be fixed?

FriedEggSandwich

Francescolg wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

[Your average sorc only has Healing ward + Hardened Ward as shields absorbing all dmg. At best that gives them around 20k shield.
(...)
I'm not disagreeing that sorcs have to many advantages in PvP atm, but 40k shield, that's just ridiculous lol.

If the player is at very low life (~30%) Healing Ward goes up to 28k absorb/heal. You can simply test this and everybody knows this. Hardened Ward is up to 13k absorb (with an average ~200CP and the respective talent for shields maxed, average 2k spell dmg and 33k magicka, in easily obtainable gear).

That together is more than 40k absorb in a certain situation for a very short time. Since most (skilled) sorcerers use Healing Ward exactly because of it's very good battle usability, it is a problem for everybody who has no Money to afford the 'top dmg gear', otherwise Bow > Sorc, good NB > Sorc, etc..

Nonetheless a sorcerer can spam healing/hardened ward and each time he pops a shield he has a ~30% chance for an instant 'mucho dmg' Crystal Frag. If you combine that with (the old) Immovable and "speed song", you can not be CC'd. So when entering battle you always have 20k shields and 40k shields if in troubles, while beaming left and right and waiting for the Crystal Frag proc. Beside that, the list of goodies is much longer but you can read this in the numerous threads about the topic.

And, of course, who claims sorcerers were not powerful before 1.6, does not really play a sorc. No more words from me, because I don't want to get an admonition, which I would get otherwise. Next week, err, next month, or next year, we'll see the Patch 2.1 and everything will change again.

Most sorcs don't keep frags on their bubble bar, I don't so never get a frags proc from casting a ward.

In full 7 light armour Immovable/Unstoppable only gives 5 seconds of cc immunity so isn't worth the stamina cost, I'd rather pop a panacea of immovability or just wait for a cc break.

You're right about Healing Ward; it's a very strong skill, but not a sorc skill, so using it as ammunition in a nerf sorc thread is a bit mute.

I never said that sorcs weren't powerful pre-1.6, I just said that they weren't considered op; nobody had a problem with them then, and not has much changed for them class-wise since.

And lastly; "..does not really play a sorc" - what does this mean?

cschwingeb14_ESO

With 50-some thing points in Bastion, and 35k magicka, my Ward is ~14,500. Self buffed my Det and Frags tooltip at around 10k. Ward ally is about 5.1k It's all from top of the line gear, 300 CP and using food.

This character is stupid to play in PvP, because insta-Frags against someone with Nirn and champ points in reduced magicka damage is about 7k damage. If he's blocking with a shield, that goes down to 3k damage. I've hit people for only 4k with Det

Magicka sorcs are completely neutered by blocking or Nirn+champ. Put them both together on the same guy and there is no point in playing a sorc against him.

If I take care of my stam (impossible with food), and keep shields up, I can stay alive very well. And crush people who don't have a good great investment and sustain. Against any class with full Nirn and decent combat skills, nothing works except running away

But when I play my Stam NB, it's at a whole nother level. Someone blocking? No problem. Someone self healing? Heal debuff right in the middle of a burst chain. Sorc shielding? Wear away his stam while dodge rolling and going invisible. Hard capped spell resist makes this a joke

Francescolg

@FriedEggSandwich
You can also play with Crystal Frags on the bubble bar, np. Since you need it immediately and it can proc consecutively, there are moments where the proc is insanely often. If you keep HoT + Bubbling your team (/randoms), Crystal Frags + Resto is strong as hell. Not everyone adapted to "healer sorc" style but in the right situation, you safe everybody around you and do even more AP just by healing + crystal fragg'ing (/edit and some other instant stuff in between for more dmg/cc).

But what the thread starter says, is possible under certain conditions. Very high spell dmg = very high Healing Ward, although it is better to play with ~2000 magicka regen and a bit less Healing Ward (20k). 20k healing ward is enough.

@cschwingeb14_ESO
If you want a better Healing Ward go deeply into spell dmg (2.5-3k) and/or 35k magicka will do it. I do not need to post pictures about 25k and higher healing wards. Atm, I prefer magicka regen and I won't change again my items, just to post a picture of a high value Healing Ward. I do not know the max-numbers, as I don't care whether "gold" or "purple" but I got a 28k healing after my ward expired, so base value was 6k or so. I aint good in calculating

tplink3r1

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs, overall, have a kit that is way too complete which makes them successful regardless of changes in meta or slight nerfs they receive.

Its been called master class since beta, and there is a reason why.

I mean, people are stacking nirn right now in current meta and magika sorc still dominate the pvp fields.

Who called it the master class since beta? Sorcs have always been bad at end game pve thanks to sucky sustained dps, and up until 1.6 were fairly sucky in pvp. Well maybe not sucky but definitely mediocre. Sorcs didn't even get that many buffs in 1.6, I remember people trolling saying rip sorcs etc. cos 1.6 didn't seem to do much for them, we lost our beloved light armour spell res and they tried to buff pets. The only changes that made life easier for me as a sorc were removal of soft-caps, can stack curses from different players, frags got a tiny bit more damage, as did curse, hardened ward got buffed so the ward refreshed on re-cast (pre-1.6 a re-cast would refresh the duration but not the ward). That is literally the sum total of the changes that affected me in a positive way. I was stacking shields way before 1.6, it was just a bit harder back then.

If anything about a sorc needs a nerf I would say it was overload. And maybe healing ward/ward ally needs a look at. Streak is fine though, really, as is shield stacking. The champion system is distorting things a bit, but cp aside sorcs are really not that op.

Don't forget one thing: Now you can stack 30k+ magicka in order to get more damage and better survivability.
Thats where Sorcs were really buffed.

Makkir

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

First there were claims of 15k and then 20k. Now we're up to 40k? Did someone see a video with a bugged shield bar?

Maybe he is talking about one particular player who has infamous shields and plenty of youtube videos capturing his mysterious, yet "skilled", playstyle....


Also tagging @Ezareth because I know he is extremely passionate about this topic and loves to hear feedback about how OP sorcs are.

Makkir

Someone, cough cough OP, clearly doesn't play a Sorc

Derra

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats the difference between sorc shield stacking and stam dps roll dodgers?

Stam build eventually runs out ressource to dodge and do damage.

Only if they´re built for max dmg and no reg at all. Guess what. A sorc with 2900 spelldmg can´t keep shielding and teleporting forever because their resources are finite.

Detector

Nerf shields or bolt escape!

Baragorath

@FriedEggSandwich I agree with your post concerning global changes, but those global changes you refer to are due to nerf from @ZOS to DK class as Sorc dont care anymore about DK tricks just pure nuke and shield stack.

Old nerf regarding bolt escape is just ridiculous after update 6 when all jewelry have -200 magicka cost reduction each and investing minimum 10% from CP spell cost reduction gives possibility to use spamming of bolt escape at normal magicka cost or still less. (Having 32K magicka it gives you minimum of 10 streaks without using pots and not taking care about regens)

Shields are not affected by crits and @ZOS "fixed" pvp by rebalancing game and finally nerfed DK making actual situation crazy.

After update 6 we have new gurus showing how good they are on Sorcs, but pre update 6 there was no any of their clips on youtube.

* I still refer to solo pvp not zergs.

BrassRazoo

The OP must be playing a different game. Don't you know this one is now called Elder Nightblades Online?

Jahosefat

BrassRazoo wrote: »

The OP must be playing a different game. Don't you know this one is now called Elder Nightblades Online?

lol that's what I was thinking.

Baphomet wrote: »

They have the best shields.....

You mean "shield", singular. Sorcs have 1 shield that is not available to all other classes, which is on the upper end a ~15 k shield. Seeing how the sorc has no class heals (not even a little hot/nuke like swallow soul), and one mediocre "tanking" ability (and most people use that one just for the speed buff), the loss of our one real direct damage mitigation tool would have to be compensated by something else.

Bolt escape is a good escape tool, if you are a mag sorc. See many stam sorcs on the battle field? No? There is a reason for that (worst stam class in the game). Sorcs are more or less pigeon-holed into building around bolt escape, at least in part. I agree that ball of lightning with an infinite mag projectile absorb is silly, it should only absorb a set number of projectiles or have a health limit, but the cost is so high already it makes the sorc keystone ability mostly unusable for stam builds. I also agree that overload dmg could be reduced some (and buff the dmg of some lesser-used abilities), but overload is pretty easy to avoid and can be reflected.

Alternative Balance Plan to OP's: how about we buff Templar and DK mag dmg rather than gut an already pigeon-holed class.

Sublime

Some tips for fighting against Sorcerers:

• Most have a very limited stamina pool so use CC on them whenever you can. Once they can't break it anymore you won.
• An escaping sorcerer can be chased through gapclosers or Retreating Maneuver + Hasty Retreat + Sprint. You might have to blockcast one or the other spell in order to keep up.
• Use burst instead of sustain damage and preferably stamina since it significantly reduces the effectiveness of their shields. (Harness doesn't work)
• Only chase a player if you think you can kill him in a 1v1. (This is not only true for sorcerers but also for any other class)

As for my opinion on class balance check out my signature.

And no, there's no TL;DR.

Darklord_Tiberius

The amount of Sorcs in this thread defending their broken class is amazing. Balance is coming boys and girls, your tears are going to taste soooooo good!

Jahosefat

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

The amount of Sorcs in this thread defending their broken class is amazing. Balance is coming boys and girls, your tears are going to taste soooooo good!

Balance is in the eye of the beholder Nirnhoned is getting nerfed right? #sorcbuff

Valnas

We gotta nerf all the stuff thats killing me and fast, cause I can't bring myself to run a gap closer and string together burst in pvp.

FriedEggSandwich

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

The amount of Sorcs in this thread defending their broken class is amazing. Balance is coming boys and girls, your tears are going to taste soooooo good!

Just like sorcs were gonna get shafted in 1.6? Everybody lol'd at the pet buffs

Tankqull

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

The amount of Sorcs in this thread defending their broken class is amazing. Balance is coming boys and girls, your tears are going to taste soooooo good!

they can nerf the <piep> out of my sorc i dont mind anymore stubborn player like you will lead to them beeing unplayable soon but i´m playing my NB and templar now anyway... 10x more dmg in a far more reliable way and or far far far far more utility.

Forestd16b14_ESO

IDK about 40K shields but shield stacking is something that does need to be looked at and fixed. ZoS just like block casting it may have seemed like a good idea at the time but now in action and a year later it is just like block casting a very abused mechanic that is causing alot of problems.

PeggymoeXD

At this point I think people are just trolling

kitchenguy65_ESO

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Not to mention:.I seem to almost never crit on shields.

That's because you can't crit on shields. At least I'm pretty sure thats not fixed yet (couldnt find any patch notes saying its fixed and cant test atm.) NB siphoning strikes also will never proc on shields. There are definitely issues with shields, but shield size is at the bottom of the list imo.

ToRelax

Francescolg wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich
You can also play with Crystal Frags on the bubble bar, np. Since you need it immediately and it can proc consecutively, there are moments where the proc is insanely often. If you keep HoT + Bubbling your team (/randoms), Crystal Frags + Resto is strong as hell. Not everyone adapted to "healer sorc" style but in the right situation, you safe everybody around you and do even more AP just by healing + crystal fragg'ing (/edit and some other instant stuff in between for more dmg/cc).

But what the thread starter says, is possible under certain conditions. Very high spell dmg = very high Healing Ward, although it is better to play with ~2000 magicka regen and a bit less Healing Ward (20k). 20k healing ward is enough.

cschwingeb14_ESO
If you want a better Healing Ward go deeply into spell dmg (2.5-3k) and/or 35k magicka will do it. I do not need to post pictures about 25k and higher healing wards. Atm, I prefer magicka regen and I won't change again my items, just to post a picture of a high value Healing Ward. I do not know the max-numbers, as I don't care whether "gold" or "purple" but I got a 28k healing after my ward expired, so base value was 6k or so. I aint good in calculating

The healing when the ward expired was a crit.

TheElementalPlatypus

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

First there were claims of 15k and then 20k. Now we're up to 40k? Did someone see a video with a bugged shield bar?

I could be wrong, but I'm like 90% sure I've seen a hardened ward alone between 18-25k.

huehuehuehue

FriedEggSandwich

It might be possible with 100 cp in the bastion and 40k magicka. But with 52 cp in the bastion and 31k magicka mine is 13k.

Rylana

OP, complain to me the next time I see 0-dodge pop up on my combat log when i cast a crystal frag at one of you stamblade noobs.

Seriously.

olsborg

Shieldstacking is the issue here, not sorcs as a class. Everyone can shieldstack, sure sorceror has the most potential for shieldstacking, but thats it. Dampen magicka is available to everyone, barrier is available to everyone, healing ward is available to everyone, bone shield is available to everyone. Hardened ward is a sorc skill, but 3 out of 4 classes have their own class shield.

Gothren

Sublime wrote: »

Some tips for fighting against Sorcerers:

• Most have a very limited stamina pool so use CC on them whenever you can. Once they can't break it anymore you won.
• An escaping sorcerer can be chased through gapclosers or Retreating Maneuver + Hasty Retreat + Sprint. You might have to blockcast one or the other spell in order to keep up.
• Use burst instead of sustain damage and preferably stamina since it significantly reduces the effectiveness of their shields. (Harness doesn't work)
• Only chase a player if you think you can kill him in a 1v1. (This is not only true for sorcerers but also for any other class)

As for my opinion on class balance check out my signature.

And no, there's no TL;DR.

umm who doesnt use tripots good sir.... good day good night. bad information. stamina is not a factor accept in very very long drawn out fights.

AlexDrago

I'm so missing about lol button. Where is it, when it need so much...

Tankqull

Gothren wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Some tips for fighting against Sorcerers:

• Most have a very limited stamina pool so use CC on them whenever you can. Once they can't break it anymore you won.
• An escaping sorcerer can be chased through gapclosers or Retreating Maneuver + Hasty Retreat + Sprint. You might have to blockcast one or the other spell in order to keep up.
• Use burst instead of sustain damage and preferably stamina since it significantly reduces the effectiveness of their shields. (Harness doesn't work)
• Only chase a player if you think you can kill him in a 1v1. (This is not only true for sorcerers but also for any other class)

As for my opinion on class balance check out my signature.

And no, there's no TL;DR.

umm who doesnt use tripots good sir.... good day good night. bad information. stamina is not a factor accept in very very long drawn out fights.

everyone fighting one of the not so many NBs

Gothren

Tankqull wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Some tips for fighting against Sorcerers:

• Most have a very limited stamina pool so use CC on them whenever you can. Once they can't break it anymore you won.
• An escaping sorcerer can be chased through gapclosers or Retreating Maneuver + Hasty Retreat + Sprint. You might have to blockcast one or the other spell in order to keep up.
• Use burst instead of sustain damage and preferably stamina since it significantly reduces the effectiveness of their shields. (Harness doesn't work)
• Only chase a player if you think you can kill him in a 1v1. (This is not only true for sorcerers but also for any other class)

As for my opinion on class balance check out my signature.

And no, there's no TL;DR.

umm who doesnt use tripots good sir.... good day good night. bad information. stamina is not a factor accept in very very long drawn out fights.

everyone fighting one of the not so many NBs

honestly that is whoever is complaining about stamina for sorc. you can use a potion every 30 to 45 sec. If you have stamina problems.......... well thats your own problem.

BigTone

As soon as I saw 40k shield this post lost all credibility. As soon as I saw best dps I spit my coffee all over my computer screen. I have to say this post gave me a good laugh with my morning coffee.

If you are counting barrier in this, then your point is irrelevant because all classes can reach 40k shields with a strong enough barrier.

Sorcs have one shield that other classes can't use. Any other shield that is used to reach this mythical 40k mark can be used by all classes and other classes have shields that sorcs don't have access to.

If you see a sorc turn on overload and you still get killed, you are a nub. Plain and simple. There is no other way to say this. You don't kill good players with overload unless you catch them from stealth, even then you have time to recover.

The costs of streak is extremely high when used consecutively and can easily be countered.

The dps part really made me laugh. I don't get insta-killed by magicka users ever. The only time I get insta-killed is against stam users.

lastly, annulment does nothing against stamina users, which are both plentiful and the hardest hitters. Against them all we have is hardened and healing ward. Without hardened ward against a stam user a sorc would hsve no chance.