Pay To Win, or a Convenience?

Kahl_dur

What's everyone's feeling about the new Crown Experience Scroll. Is an XP booster sold for real money pay-to-win, or is it just a convenience?
ESO Is Now Selling Experience Boosters In The Cash Shop

mcurley

Paying for time is not the same as paying to win.

Funkopotamus

It is NOT a pay to win system at all.

I will say that with the EXP potions there will be a widening gap for the people wanting to enjoy PvP.
Other than that there no BIS gear being sold in the cash shop.

BigM

I don't care anymore, they don't fix bugs, can't fix the launcher, what is the use of caring, they do exactly what they want.

Just hope they aren't shocked when a lot of people leave. I have heard rumors a lot of console players are getting refunds. No data to back that up as of yet.

Aeladiir

XP boosts are hardly pay to win. Is GW2 p2w because they have XP boosters? Nope.

Plus, you can always craft it.

Kahl_dur

mcurley wrote: »

Paying for time is not the same as paying to win.

Not disagreeing with you, but is it simply a matter of paying for time, or can the argument be made that it's paying for Champion points?

WebBull

Thank you for beating the dead horse again.

Funkopotamus

BigM wrote: »

I don't care anymore, they don't fix bugs, can't fix the launcher, what is the use of caring, they do exactly what they want.

Just hope they aren't shocked when a lot of people leave. I have heard rumors a lot of console players are getting refunds. No data to back that up as of yet.

Have not heard all that much about refunds, but I know first hand that a lot of console copy preorders were canceled and never picked up. Though with the mass of players in game I do not think it hurt ZOS all that much as they did have the Elder Scrolls name to stand on.

BigM

Funkopotamus wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

I don't care anymore, they don't fix bugs, can't fix the launcher, what is the use of caring, they do exactly what they want.

Just hope they aren't shocked when a lot of people leave. I have heard rumors a lot of console players are getting refunds. No data to back that up as of yet.

Have not heard all that much about refunds, but I know first hand that a lot of console copy preorders were canceled and never picked up. Though with the mass of players in game I do not think it hurt ZOS all that much as they did have the Elder Scrolls name to stand on.

Just something I heard from the guy I deal with at Gamestop!

RazzPitazz

Xp boosters are pretty staple in any game, though I don't like the concept myself. So the idea of being P2W is moot. The only reason this is a question is because of the time sink of leveling both xp and cp.
One player caps out 25% faster than others (50% faster would need an xp boost of 100%). This really doesn't seem all that much if it were not for the fact of how many cp's one can actually accumulate. Which is why ZoS is planning on decreasing the xp needed for the first 400 cp, which in a perfect world would be where the diminishing returns really start kicking in.
The only actual problem in this elaborate plan is that certain Champion Point passives are broken and are ignoring the diminishing aspect. Once that problem is actually fixed them the whole CP system along with xp boosters won't feel like an uphill battle.

Kahl_dur

WebBull wrote: »

Thank you for beating the dead horse again.

*Raises eyebows* You're welcome. Actually, I think it's more like beating a dead guar. Seriously though, just looking for opinions.

SCAGNETTI4691

p2w is when they sell over powered equipment and enchants that are not available in the game. XP boost are so the working man can compete with kids off for the summer!

Nebthet78

domenthechief wrote: »

XP boosts are hardly pay to win. Is GW2 p2w because they have XP boosters? Nope.

Plus, you can always craft it.

That's provided you can find all the parts of the recipe that have an extremely low drop rate. Few people have them all unless they have used over 1.5million gold to buy all the pieces.

It is slightly pay 2 win right now. They need to increase the drop rate significantly.

VincentBlanquin

not big issue at all. they need first adress class and weapon imbalances then others.....

Olysja

in real when you place an exp boost to the cash shop the game goes to p2w. doesn't matter if the same item can be found in game or not, for a new player is impossible to afford an ingame exp potion and he has to buy it from cash shop ; also many endgame players can't afford to buy ingame potions and doesn't have time for fishing(and the time you waste fishing for it will never compensate the ginding time you loose), so they are forced too to buy exp scrolls from shop for make more cps. so yes, atm eso it's actually a pay to win.

Psychobunni

Honestly, I'm with @BigM on this in terms of I simply can't be bothered to care anymore.

It's a gimmick, there is no catch up because who you are trying to catch up to....can and is likely using them too! By the time you cap CP, there will be something else....So more fool the buyer(s) but it won't be me (imo)

Things I wish the community could get behind and rail against the man about: lack of communication on ZOS forums, yet answers found on other site(s), bugs bugs and bugs, lack of UI features/broken features from pc launch, broken systems ie: guild traders (they suck, but we can't even get behind decent changes bc everyone wants to argue abt AH's) etc. etc. etc.

Hypertionb14_ESO

any system where you pay to gain something dramatically faster than you would otherwise is a pay to win..

its very easy to buy the XP scrolls vs paying out the ass to get it ingame..

it is pay to win.

ZylnorWrath_ESO

i never understood how people can compare exp boost to p2w. with an exp boost you are not overpowered in any way shape or form, you still need to work in order to use the boost. its not something like an automatic level up/skill points, or an item that gives you godlike stats. those are definitions of p2w which i have yet to see in this game!

TheShadowScout

Paying a pile of crowns to gain three hours worth of advancement in two hours?

I wouldn't call it "PtW"... I'd call it stupid to pay for something you can get with a bit more effort while saving your money... but hey, if the wallet warriors like it, that means more income for zenimax, and thus more money in their warchest to finance new content for me to enjoy all the sooner...

DDuke

domenthechief wrote: »

XP boosts are hardly pay to win. Is GW2 p2w because they have XP boosters? Nope.

Plus, you can always craft it.

Does GW2 have virtually infinite leveling process (Champion System)? Nope.

Yes, you can craft or purchase it, which is the only redeeming factor for these potions.

Yet, they are unavailable to most people, who aren't running around with millions of gold, meaning you're forced into Cash Shop if you want to maximize your xp/hour (and your character's power as a result). For me, that is strictly P2W at that point (luckily, I'm one of the few people with 5m+ in bank).

LordSkyKnight

Kahl_dur wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Thank you for beating the dead horse again.

*Raises eyebows* You're welcome. Actually, I think it's more like beating a dead guar. Seriously though, just looking for opinions.

Well then use the search feature. He is right, its ridiculous to bring this back up again. I don't think you are looking for opinions, I think you are just looking to stir up drama.

BippNasty

If it can be crafted In game without buying it then no it not p2w. In this case you can craft them so no its not

Hypertionb14_ESO

so according to some of you, Adding a option that lets you buy 1 champion point for say 500c would not be pay to win since you can easily earn 1 champion point by grinding...

yes.... this is EXACTLY the same thing...

buying a XP booster via RMT vs grinding to get it in game...

Kahl_dur

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Thank you for beating the dead horse again.

*Raises eyebows* You're welcome. Actually, I think it's more like beating a dead guar. Seriously though, just looking for opinions.

Well then use the search feature. He is right, its ridiculous to bring this back up again. I don't think you are looking for opinions, I think you are just looking to stir up drama.

Before I posted, I actually used the search feature for "Crown Experience Scroll" and found nothing... Sorry if I upset you, but I'm not looking to "stir up drama." There have actually been some outstanding posts on this thread (pro and con), which have helped expand my viewpoint on the issue. I was leaning towards XP boosters being P2W, but I'm not so certain anymore.

BigM

OK when in doubt always go to Urban Dictionary!

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Nebthet78

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Paying a pile of crowns to gain three hours worth of advancement in two hours?

I wouldn't call it "PtW"... I'd call it stupid to pay for something you can get with a bit more effort while saving your money... but hey, if the wallet warriors like it, that means more income for zenimax, and thus more money in their warchest to finance new content for me to enjoy all the sooner...

I agree. I found someone who was willing to trade me 3 of the drinks for 1 roe yesterday so I could try them out.

Under normal play, it takes me about 1hr 20 min to gain 1CP grinding mobs.

Each drink for me is 50 minutes (provisioning skill for drinks extends length 20 min).

Last night, I played doing quests, and I was able to gain 1.25CP in the 50 min time frame. (109k XP). (but I was also rushing from quest to quest as quickly as possible)

I wasn't really all that impressed with it, considering the time frame it takes to fish and find a darn roe. They have a low drop rate like the recipe its self. You pretty much get 1 roe for 1hr of fishing.

If you are good with time management, you are better off spending the 1hr grinding mobs rather than fishing. You will end up with almost the same experience.

I am at the conclusion this whole experience booster things is a plot to make users concentrate on finding the darn recipe pieces so as not to continue pressuring ZOS for new content. Especially, the PC users.

Gidorick

It honestly doesn't matter...

Pangnirtung

Really? Does it matter anymore? Will you one day be able to buy a veteran level character just because it levels the playing field?

Happily this game is free for me to play and I can choose to take it or leave it. It's sad to see the past year has been a big beta for the crown store. Where did all my promised monthly updates go that were promised with a subscription? Too tired to care anymore.

lsneakl

BigM wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

I don't care anymore, they don't fix bugs, can't fix the launcher, what is the use of caring, they do exactly what they want.

Just hope they aren't shocked when a lot of people leave. I have heard rumors a lot of console players are getting refunds. No data to back that up as of yet.

Have not heard all that much about refunds, but I know first hand that a lot of console copy preorders were canceled and never picked up. Though with the mass of players in game I do not think it hurt ZOS all that much as they did have the Elder Scrolls name to stand on.

Just something I heard from the guy I deal with at Gamestop!

Funny just because I bet if 99.9999999999999% of us went to the local Gamestop by us they would say no returns on open merchandise. Is there a reason why ESO would be an exception? I would assume if ANY GAME deserved to be returned it would have been Battlefield back in 2013 as the launch was horrendous on Xbox One with server issues.

Moonshadow66

Gidorick wrote: »

It honestly doesn't matter...

^This.


As a single player, I'm done when I'm done. There's nothing to "win" when I've completed all zones, no matter when.
I don't want to end up in a VR7 zone (just an example) at VR14 complaining about not being able to accomplish anything anymore ("accomplish" in terms of "yay, I gained some XP, soon I'll level up again!"). I just would be getting dull very soon. As long as I can level and gain XP at the currently "normal" rate, I'm happy

(Edit: a typo )

BigM

Then they were hoping you wouldn't push the issue, unless you did a download purchase which on games like this one wouldn't be very smart.

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