Do NOT nerf Nirnhoned

Diamond_10

Seriously, with how powerful magic damage is, if you nerf Nirnhoned like you said you were going to after console release, the game is going to be in ruin for pvp. DKs already destroy people, sorcs are still hitting insta 14k shards in the face against 27k spell resist. Nerf this, and the game will become even more of a mess in pvp than it already is.

If anything, just add a physical resist counterpart from the nodes too. We want LESS damage all around, not more.

Thanks.

Lyzaaa

Dk's destroy people? lol

Diamond_10

i said destroy not burst, yeah even as tank their flame dots kill people a lot faster than a tank should
without nirn theyd be a joke

Snit

You think magicka does more damage than stamina?

Proximity Detonation does enormous damage, and it's magicka. Other than that, the highest-damage attacks are stamina-based. Snipe is the highest damage single-target attack. Steel Tornado is the best AoE. This is the age of the stamina build.

Joy_Division

OP, do you spam wrecking blow, snipe, or surprise attack?

Diamond_10

i said destroy not burst, yeah even as tank their flame dots kill people a lot faster than a tank should
without nirn theyd be a joke

Snit wrote: »

You think magicka does more damage than stamina?

Proximity Detonation does enormous damage, and it's magicka. Other than that, the highest-damage attacks are stamina-based. Snipe is the highest damage single-target attack. Steel Tornado is the best AoE. This is the age of the stamina build.

You are proving my point here. Damage is too high all around, so why increase magic damage by nerfing Nirn, instead of leaving it alone and adding a physical alternative, bringing physical down slightly?

BigTone

One of two things should be done to achieve balance.

1. Fix nirnhoned so that the 20% bonus only applies to the spell resist of that piece

or

2. Give us a physical resist counterpart.

I would be happy with either one.

Rohaus

BigTone wrote: »

One of two things should be done to achieve balance.

1. Fix nirnhoned so that the 20% bonus only applies to the spell resist of that piece

or

2. Give us a physical resist counterpart.

I would be happy with either one.

I like option #2! I love the idea of longer fights... This could be achieved by doing something similar with Reinforced.

I have been playing as a Magicka DK for a month now... after spending the majority of my time since release as Stam... and I am honestly tired of hitting people with a wet noodle... I spent a few days farming Skoria to get a helm... even with that Monster set... my damage is just so weak compared to when I was Stam. As Magicka DK, I get to spam talons, use prox det, and lava whip dodge rollers... wheee!!!

It is very obvious when I am attacking someone with high spell resistance courtesy of Nirn... pew pew pew... which honestly feels like over half the PvP population runs high spell resistance... Nirn...

OdinForge

Damage in general is out of control (both spell and physical), but nirn has allowed players to take stamina spec builds far past what it's actually capable of. Stamina builds aren't actually as strong as some people think, it will become more obvious post nirn. Not every class has the offensive & defensive prowess of a Sorc, some classes like magicka NB become extremely obsolete. The potential to hit high with snipe is largely limited to attacking from stealth, I've seen C-Frag hit for 22K casually. Snipe is also cumbersome and slow, wrecking blow damage also tends to come from stealth. Aside from those skills, surprise attack on a regen build will hit between 3-7K and soul harvest will hit between 6-10K. On a ganker spec those abilities can hit much higher, the downside being those builds are not sustainable in a fight and why those players never leave stealth or work in pairs or groups.

If nirn was never added to the game, more people would be understanding of why all those "nerf Sorc" threads started. People not abusing nirn deal with insane damage, at the same time they're dealing with insanely high damage shields. If nirn wasn't in the game, the FoTM dodge NB wouldn't be as fierce as it is.

If they fix nirn, the balance will turn too far into magicka again and maybe zeni can start doing some re-balancing. I get a lot of questions from new players, who see these NB 1vx videos and try to adopt the build. And cannot understand how to get around the incoming damage. With 0 nirn I've been melted by magicka Templars and Sorcs just as fast as any high damage output stamina ganker. The difference comes down to the magicka builds being harder to put down in a fight.

Emma_Overload

They shouldn't mess with Nirnhoned OR Reinforced, but instead introduce a NEW trait that buffs physical resistance the same way Nirnhoned buffs magical resistance. That way, no existing builds or gear are destroyed by yet another capricious PvP nerf.

Wreuntzylla

Snit wrote: »

You think magicka does more damage than stamina?

Proximity Detonation does enormous damage, and it's magicka. Other than that, the highest-damage attacks are stamina-based. Snipe is the highest damage single-target attack. Steel Tornado is the best AoE. This is the age of the stamina build.

Although you can stack AoE magic damage....

bosmern_ESO

So its okay for snipes and Wrecking blow to hit 20k on people but its not ok if Crystal fragments do?

I don't think you realize, you can get 75k+ Spell resistance, that makes something that would hit you for 15-20k damage, hit you for about 1-3k damage.

You need to learn what 'balance' is. Either nerf nirn or make it so I can stack Reinforced and get 75k+ Physical resistance so Wrecking blows and snipes hit me for 1-3k damage.

Diamond_10

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

So its okay for snipes and Wrecking blow to hit 20k on people but its not ok if Crystal fragments do?

I don't think you realize, you can get 75k+ Spell resistance, that makes something that would hit you for 15-20k damage, hit you for about 1-3k damage.

You need to learn what 'balance' is. Either nerf nirn or make it so I can stack Reinforced and get 75k+ Physical resistance so Wrecking blows and snipes hit me for 1-3k damage.

What a load of bull. It hard caps somewhere in the 30k's, go try it and you will see that your numbers go up but you start to see no difference

Xsorus

You won't hit 75k spell resist unless you run every single piece of armor as Nirnhoned, which severely limits your build options.

Realistically most players are going to be in the 30's and 40k at most...Bout 20k of this is flat out Ignored if the person hitting ya isn't an idiot and runs any sort of Spell Pen.

I hit 36k on my Nightblade for example, with 5 piece nirnhoned, With the Major Buffs up, and 10% spell resist from the CP line.

DisgracefulMind

Diamond_10 wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

So its okay for snipes and Wrecking blow to hit 20k on people but its not ok if Crystal fragments do?

I don't think you realize, you can get 75k+ Spell resistance, that makes something that would hit you for 15-20k damage, hit you for about 1-3k damage.

You need to learn what 'balance' is. Either nerf nirn or make it so I can stack Reinforced and get 75k+ Physical resistance so Wrecking blows and snipes hit me for 1-3k damage.

What a load of bull. It hard caps somewhere in the 30k's, go try it and you will see that your numbers go up but you start to see no difference

Yes, there is a hardcap. Now, to further the point stated, there either needs to be a nerf on nirnhoned, or something similar that can be introduced that gives magicka builds the same protection from stamina builds that stamina builds can obtain to protect themselves from magicka builds.

Stamina builds can hit 14k+ with ease, so your complaint about a 14k crystal frag is invalid. And if you're hit with a crystal frag, l2p.

Snit

If you add a physical resist counterpart, or buff the heck out of Reinforced, that simply means that all crafted armor will have one of those two traits at the high end. No one or two traits should be so good that every good, top-end player uses them and no others.

Francescolg

All this was forseeable and they did the nirn (nurf/readjustment) by purpose.
I highly doubt up on the skills of this "game balance team", because Nirn (as it came to 1.6) has not been nurfed harder, in front of such a clear, forseeable op mechanic: it simply buffs too much!

No other passive/buff/etc. etc. gives you +25% (cumulative!) of a "basic class stat". I'd love to get items/traits with +25% magicka, +25% total stamina, etc. etc... On the other side I immediately recognize them as "sth. too much!"
My point is not just Nirn. itself but that clear and recognizable (!) imba mechanic, and the question how it can happen to an (expert) team of developers&friends to let it in the game for so long, while, at the same time, they 'instantly' nurf NPCs/dungeons which give 'a little bit more' CP-points.

Diamond_10

and what about sorcs who just take no damage period?

Cinbri

Desert Rose set 5p bonus so good in 1.6. not less than 10k from any sources while in light armor = 1200 magicka per hit=endless mana pool.

tplink3r1

Start complaning about WB when someone hit you 38 meters away.
Snipe need a nerf btw.

k2blader

Snit wrote: »

If you add a physical resist counterpart, or buff the heck out of Reinforced, that simply means that all crafted armor will have one of those two traits at the high end. No one or two traits should be so good that every good, top-end player uses them and no others.

So totally agree, but that seems to be the way Zeni is "designing" (cough) their game.

I just hope they readjust crafted gear to indeed be the best, or at least extremely competitive, gear in the game. I think there is a skew toward the other side which requires PvE. Ideally PvP gear should be entirely different from PvE gear.

Alcast

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

So its okay for snipes and Wrecking blow to hit 20k on people but its not ok if Crystal fragments do?

I don't think you realize, you can get 75k+ Spell resistance, that makes something that would hit you for 15-20k damage, hit you for about 1-3k damage.

You need to learn what 'balance' is. Either nerf nirn or make it so I can stack Reinforced and get 75k+ Physical resistance so Wrecking blows and snipes hit me for 1-3k damage.

Cap is at 35k.

and Mace+Sharpend= 100% ARmor pene
Nirnhoned+Apprentice = 100% Spell pene

does the trick and makes ALL your creepy resistances useless

Kobaal

I agree with OP. Instead of nerfing Nirn they should just offer a physical resist alternative that way you will bring down some of the burst damage from Stam builds to be in line with Magika builds. I personally don't like fights that are over within 1 second. We need to mitigate more PvP damage to promote fights that last longer and are more enjoyable.

danno8

No, it needs to be nerfed. You should not be able to max out spell resist (or physical resist for that matter, so "no" to the reinforced counterpart) with a simple trait on 3 pieces of your armour.

You want everyone in game to walk around with 50% physical resist and 50% spell resist?

You want to make it so armour type has almost no bearing on mitigation again?

What they need to do is fix nirnhoned, lower some of the huge damage modifiers in the game (or return to soft caps/smoothe diminishing returns), while at the same time lowering healing so people aren't indestructible and increase health a bit. It all needs to be done together in the right ratio to avoid even more imbalance.

It is a hard task but simply giving a reinforced counterpart is the wrong answer.

Domander

Kobaal wrote: »

I agree with OP. Instead of nerfing Nirn they should just offer a physical resist alternative that way you will bring down some of the burst damage from Stam builds to be in line with Magika builds. I personally don't like fights that are over within 1 second. We need to mitigate more PvP damage to promote fights that last longer and are more enjoyable.

What about the other armor traits?

Forestd16b14_ESO

[...spam] nerf it ..........

Tell me how is it not broken if it can basicly by pass 15K spell res give or take.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Spamming]

Diamond_10

danno8 wrote: »

You want everyone in game to walk around with 50% physical resist and 50% spell resist?

Yes actually, because damage is out of control. Id rather enjoy fighting than it be over in 3 seconds.

Ace_SiN

Diamond_10 wrote: »

Seriously, with how powerful magic damage is, if you nerf Nirnhoned like you said you were going to after console release, the game is going to be in ruin for pvp. DKs already destroy people, sorcs are still hitting insta 14k shards in the face against 27k spell resist. Nerf this, and the game will become even more of a mess in pvp than it already is.

If anything, just add a physical resist counterpart from the nodes too. We want LESS damage all around, not more.

Thanks.

Please... just stop...

byrom101b16_ESO

Nirnhoned significantly outperforms all other traits, so it is axiomatic that it is OP.

There is only a 'debate' here due to the predictable 'I got a full set of nirnhoned and want to defend my investment and/or advantage' lobby...

Just admit your bias and engage in some fair minded commentary already...

Dar_Zeena

I'd rather have proper pvp gear with x% less damage from players to spend my AP on...

danno8

Diamond_10 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

You want everyone in game to walk around with 50% physical resist and 50% spell resist?

Yes actually, because damage is out of control. Id rather enjoy fighting than it be over in 3 seconds.

Which you will if they actually rebalance skills/stats like my other suggestions, rather than simply add in a second OP trait to destroy all other traits.