A Skill to stop Zergs...But what happens when zergs use it?

BigTone

I really like the idea of inevitable detonation, but proximity detonation needs to be removed from the game ASAP. Rework the morph to do something else, like increase the amount of damage based off of number of enemies hit. Throw three or four of those on a zerg group and watch the fireworks.

Thoths_Servant

lol im not taking the time to read all the comments so i apologize if this has already been stated but prox det really is the zerg buster. sure the zerg can use it too but it truly can kill a zerg and i don't think it needs change. its not like it doesn't have its down sides when being casted such as slow movement speed, the inability to block and so on. more over when there groups are using them you just simply wait for them to pop then engage. prox det gives small groups the ability to wipe large ones if they play well. in my ernest opinion it is good as it is and to be honest the majority of people I've heard complain about it are the people who run in groups and get wiped by smaller ones with it id say its working

Thoths_Servant

also as to all these people hating on "zergs", being in a zerg is a legit start not that forward camps are gone. getting rid of them would be dumb. the issue is the lag cause by organized zergs not the zerg mechanics themselves. as someone who plays in small group and enjoys engaging groups far larger i can tell you prox det, ulti bomb does the job against them if you have a strong group. so leave the zergs alone

Bouvin

ZoS needs to wake up and stop trying to "fix zergs" and start removing the incentives to zerg.

Start by vastly reducing AP gains in full or near full groups.

Next, increase the number of objectives on the map, making some easier and faster to flip, so they don't take large groups and flip often, thus spreading players out.

Problem solved.

RinaldoGandolphi

The problem with Prox Det is the stealth bonus.

It simply shouldn't be able to be cast while stealth or cloaked. If you cast Prox det, you should not be able to re-enter stealth until the explosion goes off, and cloak/invis potions should not work either.

As long as people can stealth explode, they will continue using it.

RinaldoGandolphi

Bazeric wrote: »

Having just morphed to the Inevitable Detonation I'm a little disappointed with it. TB hasn't been the Zergfest it was, granted, but after reading some ideas I think have a easy solution that won't take tons of new coding and won't add crazy strain on the server.

Solution:
If the Inevitable Detonation morph had the knock down effect of the craftable armor set Death's Wind, presto!
The mechanism already exists in the game so it should be an easy tweek. Reduce damage if you must to compensate, but this is a realistic idea that ZOS should consider.

How do we (ESO players) feel about this? Realistically, you should consider that ZOS isn't going to invest heavily in PVP tweeks and others solutions would only strain the servers more.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
(Don't know that tagging makes a difference but I think this is one of my better ideas...)

It don't do enough damage now, reducing the Inevitable Det morph more would make it weak...besides i do use Inevitable Det sometimes on a rotation with my Sorc when im bored roaming solo...sometimes its fun. Many other Sorcs do to.

Bazeric

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

It don't do enough damage now

I hear ya. I had reservations about adding that part, but I felt that I needed to mention something to sweeten the deal.

Let me ask you @RinaldoGandolphi, do you think adding the small area knock down (a la Death's Wind)and leaving the damage the same reasonable? (I'm for leaving the damage the same if the "balance" works out right)

RinaldoGandolphi

Bazeric wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

It don't do enough damage now

I hear ya. I had reservations about adding that part, but I felt that I needed to mention something to sweeten the deal.

Let me ask you @RinaldoGandolphi, do you think adding the small area knock down (a la Death's Wind)and leaving the damage the same reasonable? (I'm for leaving the damage the same if the "balance" works out right)

Yeah adding a knockdown to the current morph would be perfect i think. Meteor already knocks down and its not OP

Knockdown can be countered by Immovable, Block, or Immovable Pots, so its not like it wouldn't have a viable counter.

Xsorus

Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thDOMDUNYBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TM7VkJajI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ_rlggjEG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BxyNKATs2s

Just remember folks..Stacking is bad

Mr_Nobody

Xsorus wrote: »

Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thDOMDUNYBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TM7VkJajI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ_rlggjEG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BxyNKATs2s

Just remember folks..Stacking is bad

yet ESO doesnt punish people for stacking ~ people/grps actually benefit for stacking due to all the aoe heals/barriers and damage reduction done in aoe. DAoC is a completely different story, in comparison to ESO, it was a really hard game, and if zergs (Hey Kzar, /realease not working?) got caught in a ball by decent 8man bomb grps, they died. Whereas here even if u caught a zerg with 6 aoe bombers, nothing would happen and the guy who engaged would die.

Animal_Mother

manny254 wrote: »

LazyLewis wrote: »

This was an almost full raid using it. Our groups use it aswell in our full groups because we are forced to do so

Why don't you take the advice ZoS gave you. Just use spear shards or piercing javelin to even the odds.

Did they actually say that? Where? I need a good laugh.

Armitas

Well we kind of have a chain lightning with fire ring and force pulse, only it's fire instead of lightning... Something like that might work here too.

For example. Lets add a small radius chaining debuff. Blob A casts chains on player X in blob B. Whenever 5 players are in proximity of player x they become chained to player X and receive a balanced portion of any single target damage that player X receives. If 6 players from Blob A approach player X they will get chained as well with a separate set of chains and receive the same debuff.

Instead of having a chain lightning animation that is always in check it could just be a small red circle that follows player x and anyone that stands in the circle receives player x's damage. Basically don't stand in the red circles, just like we are used to.

We pretty much have this with fire ring and force pulse, but that combo can be used by the blob as well. This would be the same concept, only it would turn on the user if they tried to blob the same location.

Cathexis

Detonate is hands down the worst skill ever made.

Cathexis

They should just make negate a regular skill, would fix everything.

Players would have to actively fight around negate bubbles.

ToRelax

Cathexis wrote: »

They should just make negate a regular skill, would fix everything.

Players would have to actively fight around negate bubbles.

How'd that fix anything now?
Nowadays you can cc break negate and forget about it.
If it was a regular skill you'd just cc rbeak again in 8 seconds.
That is if you are not using Immovable or a stamina build that doesn't care anyway.

Cathexis

What??? Why is negate even a skill. Honestly. The state of sorcerers is deplorable.

Remove CC break too then

Kas

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Although proximity detonation also helps a *** ton against lager group forces too.. Damage scaleing based on tagets hit should be the solution.

agree. not only for this skill buit for anything that is supposed to break up balls. it works to some extend in pve with the mage's chain lightning. i just think they're shy to add it to avoid intra-alliance hate when other groups / solo players get too close to others.



On a different account:
has anyone ever tried kiting and ~8-man countdown-timed inevitable detonation? Kinda like: retreating maneuver, spread out, 3 -2 - 1 everybody cast inevitable. the one attacked by the blob cancel the cast and keeps kiting.

not sure about the numbers but imho all you need is 2-3 detotations to break a barrier and then enough to insta kill.
always too many players with the proximity morph, I've never seen it tried so far

Forestd16b14_ESO

So..... Kamakaziis?

Forestd16b14_ESO

Warraxx wrote: »

make jesus beam an AOE...




(seriously don't)

Don't even joke about............

LazyLewis

Cathexis wrote: »

What??? Why is negate even a skill. Honestly. The state of sorcerers is deplorable.

Remove CC break too then

Are you kidding me? I kill V14s easy enough on my V5 sorc. Ive done Two Vs Me and boss them. Sorcs are amazing if your good at them.

PainfulFAFA

Thoths_Servant wrote: »

lol im not taking the time to read all the comments so i apologize if this has already been stated but prox det really is the zerg buster. sure the zerg can use it too but it truly can kill a zerg and i don't think it needs change. its not like it doesn't have its down sides when being casted such as slow movement speed, the inability to block and so on. more over when there groups are using them you just simply wait for them to pop then engage. prox det gives small groups the ability to wipe large ones if they play well. in my ernest opinion it is good as it is and to be honest the majority of people I've heard complain about it are the people who run in groups and get wiped by smaller ones with it id say its working

I disagree with your comment and the entire idea of proximity detonation
simply because of the philosophy behind 1 player/group SMASHING onto others to bomb them.
I guess ZOS idea of "zerg busting" is for zergs to LAG themselves out.

How many times has ZOS stated that players need to spread out and that the servers can't sustain
multiple blobs? And yet these "geniuses" come up with an AOE ability that forces you get near enemies??

Snit

Proxi Det encourages stacking to use it offensively. Inevitable Detonation does not. ZOS's mistake was their reflex to give Detonation a melee variant, and then to give that morph far more damage.

Araxleon

LazyLewis wrote: »

This was an almost full raid using it. Our groups use it aswell in our full groups because we are forced to do so

haha Those *Try using -blank or -blank- to even the odds* always get me

Snit

You can pile on lots of Nirn, and the Proxi Dets won't hurt so much.

My death recaps are usually 5x Steel Tornado from 4x different characters.

Trollwut

Well, I just think of Earthshaker from Dota 2.



His ultimate does small amount of AoE damage. But every unit struck also echoes this AoE.

I'd make it that the less mates are in your range, the more damage it does. So you can counter a Zerg with a few people, but a Zerg can't go Hulk with it.

Kode

It really isnt that complicated. Chain Lightning. Ability hits its primary target and applies a disorient, snare and deals standard single target damage(roughly 4-5k if specced well) The ability the fires a second ability and checks for an enemy within 5 meters and fires again on a nearby enemy player.
The ability doesnt end until it loses a target to travel to, and can bounce between players on a half second interval with an obvious graphic like a snap and electrical animation.
It would be harsh enough to kill a zerg if it stayed stacked, but forgiving enough to give them a chance to split up. A couple people casting that into a zerg from a spread formation would quickly destroy the zergs advantage.
The biggest problem is figuring out how to implement it in PvE without breaking the game.