Will the removal of Veteran ranks have a negative Impact on the community? Will you con. to play?

TheEmoVampire

Hearsay has plagued the TESOTU community with the thought of lowering the level cap to 50. I have not got the slightest idea as to why any one would do this. All those hours some people spend questing playing the game, the thrill of leveling up, the aspect of you progressing,spending hundreds of seemingly interminable hours playing the game and then you hit Veteran Rank 14. Most MMOS that I have heard of increase the maximum level that one could acquire. The Champion System is not suppose to be overall character progression, but icing on the cake. Bare with me for a moment please. Imagine your 62 years of age, the retirement age. You had 1,000,000 dollars in your 401k and then someone siphons that money away how would you feel? All that hard work, for nothing. Sure at the time it was worth it paying bills and what to sustain life, but what about the future? And all of it has been taken away! please get the Development team's attention on this. A level 50 cap? No this will not suffice, sure console players will only be able to play the game for 10-15 years but PC won't end unless ZOS stops it and maybe not even then. Don't let the game end suddenly please there is potential in this game, so don't blow it zos
(at least not again) if ZOS does go through with this then all the DLC will literally be just to keep people paying and playing (wasting time) I say wasting cause you're not getting any where . And do mention the Champion System, it cannot sustain overall progression simply because its too slow, and it does have an end. MMO is suppose to last a lifetime, but which lifetime are they after? Please vote i want to hear you opinions. This is a very serious matter, so please no trolls.

Cuyler

I'll play regardless, but prefer Veteran Rank not to be decommsionsed

I like vertical progression, go figure......I will however play no matter the decision.

MissBizz

I'll play regardless, but prefer Veteran Rank not to be decommsionsed

I like vertical too. It made me a bit sad when they said DLC will scale. I like having to work towards something. As well, my reason for voting I prefer to keep them are not the same as yours.

With that said, it is pure hearsay that they will just chop it off at 50 with nothing to replace it, so it may not work like that, and I know plenty of people who do not enjoy the veteran ranks.

Yinmaigao

I vote fourth option;

Depends on what mechanic they use to replace it, and how it segregates/brings together the community.

Skiserony

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

You do gotta know, if they would make lvl50 hardcap we won't just be the same as lvl50's are now. Gear, weapons, food, drinks, ... will all be put into stages where the highest stage would be the equivalent of VR14. It won't be worthless, especially with all the CP you earned now. No game developper could afford doing something like you said, don't worry about it too much. There will be a system for it.

You should add another option though: Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, and all those hours I poured in are not worthless

KhajitFurTrader

I'll take the fourth option: it was the feedback of the players themselves that led to the development of the Champion Point system, which was designed from the get-go to ultimately replace what has gone before, i.e. the Veteran Rank system.

The VR system was a mistaken one, to say the least. People took it as vertical progression and complained whenever the VR cap was raised to accommodate for new sources of XP. There are literally hundreds of pages of discussion on this forum, arguing back and forth about its benefits and shortcomings. In the end, the arguments against it where overwhelming, and ZOS took action. When they were ready to announce the replacement, it was unambiguously made clear that the days of the VR system were numbered, and that it would be discontinued after a grace period.

So my take is: no, the removal of the VR system will not have any negative impact on the community, because it was this community who wanted it gone in the first place. "All that hours" that players poured into it were not wasted, because with the introduction of the CP system, those XP were rewarded as CP within a generous scope.

Oh, and btw: biased wording of poll options. But you know that already.

TheEmoVampire

What about all those skill points? All that time some players spend grinding to vr 14. If this does happen then zos will lose my subscription (not that one player matters) and I'll go play a game that doesn't end. BTW there was suppose to a fourth option I pressed enter too fast!

TheEmoVampire

Skiserony wrote: »

You do gotta know, if they would make lvl50 hardcap we won't just be the same as lvl50's are now. Gear, weapons, food, drinks, ... will all be put into stages where the highest stage would be the equivalent of VR14. It won't be worthless, especially with all the CP you earned now. No game developper could afford doing something like you said, don't worry about it too much. There will be a system for it.

You should add another option though: Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, and all those hours I poured in are not worthless

I highly doubt I'd have as much skill points as I do I'd be missing 14 of them

Reb

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

Your hours of effort will never go to waste .
Thats what champion points are for

Skiserony

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

TheEmoVampire wrote: »

Skiserony wrote: »

You do gotta know, if they would make lvl50 hardcap we won't just be the same as lvl50's are now. Gear, weapons, food, drinks, ... will all be put into stages where the highest stage would be the equivalent of VR14. It won't be worthless, especially with all the CP you earned now. No game developper could afford doing something like you said, don't worry about it too much. There will be a system for it.

You should add another option though: Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, and all those hours I poured in are not worthless

I highly doubt I'd have as much skill points as I do I'd be missing 14 of them

They really won't take away the skillpoint and attribute points we already have now. You won't lose those 14 skill points. And why such a big deal about those 14 skill points? If you want more skill points go do some questing, if you only play main quest and do all delves and chase skyshards you get way more than grinding to v14. There like 15 or more each zone. Do a little PvP, the first ranks are really fast achieved for the skillpoints. I have like almost 300 skill points on my main, who I also use as a crafter.

If that is the reason you would leave the game, for losing 14 skill points, then go do some skill point hunting. But this is not the concern we should be worried about, because very high likely they won't even take away any of them. Theyhave never done something like that before.

Vizier

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

Are you seriously drawing equivalency between removing veteran ranks and some schmuck stealing a person's life savings and retirement? (facepalm)


Sorry but IMO the vast majority of players ground out their levels to V14 using exploitive XP gain. Not from doing all the quests etc. These methods have largely been nerfed and are now ineffective. As they should be. The grind to V14 IMO is prohibitive and only serves to separate the haves from the have nots. Removal of Veteran Ranks is overdue.

I'm not going to miss the skill points. I will like that less experienced players should be able to participate with "veteran" players without penalty and I believe should bring the community together more than it is now.

I'm more interested in a better game with a more inclusive nature than I am in losing some skill points. AND if I look at it with an open mind the removal of Veteran points doesn't change my enjoyment of the game to this point. I spent time playing, honing skills, enjoying the game as it was and after the vet rank changes I'll still enjoy the game. Nothing will change there.

WyldfireWyrm

The obvious solution to the problem is to remove the veteran ranks, but make the new cap 64+. Then all VR14 characters would become 64. It doesn't make sense to progress deeper into veteran ranks as it diminishes the feel of being a veteran. Can you imagine being VR60 in several years to come? Only 50 regular levels, but then 60 veteran ones. Makes being a veteran feel real special.... By converting the veteran ranks to regular ranks, you can progress to higher and higher level caps (what is WoW on? 85 or 90?) without diminishing the feeling of achieving those ranks. Just my opinion.

Alphashado

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

lol. Even though one of these options comes close to summing up my opinion, I won't vote because I don't vote on heavily biased polls

EDIT: I changed my mind and voted anyways, but lol @ the poll wording.

yoco007

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

And when exactly do they plan on removing Veteran Ranks? Is it known yet?

Emma_Overload

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

Sounds like OP doesn't have any alts! I've already been through the long, boring grind to VR14 once, I have no desire to do it again for each and every alt.

BloodStorm

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

401k is a gamble in the first place. Didn't know people still did that scam.

Animal_Mother

I'll play regardless, but prefer Veteran Rank not to be decommsionsed

I would love to have the armor sets I out-levelled be viable again.

But I really don't see how ZOS can divorce Veteran Levels from the game, other than renaming them 51-65 (and actually creating content for 50-51). The entire crafting system would have to be redone, all Caldwells SIlver and Gold, Craglorn, etc.

TheEmoVampire

Alphashado wrote: »

lol. Even though one of these options comes close to summing up my opinion, I won't vote because I don't vote on heavily biased polls

EDIT: I changed my mind and voted anyways, but lol @ the poll wording.

My Apologies, @Alphashado I had no intention of being biased, my closed mind has blinded me from seeing any benefits from coming from this, mostly because I cant think of any.

glak

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial, even though all those hours I poured in are now worthless, I will continue to play.

Animal_Mother wrote: »

I would love to have the armor sets I out-levelled be viable again.

But I really don't see how ZOS can divorce Veteran Levels from the game, other than renaming them 51-65 (and actually creating content for 50-51). The entire crafting system would have to be redone, all Caldwells SIlver and Gold, Craglorn, etc.

Champion System is the intended replacement. We were given 70 Champion Points for compensation.

sadownik

Veteran Rank decommission will not be beneficial, and all my time the entire year i spent playing this game all that time is now a waste.

TheEmoVampire wrote: »

What about all those skill points? All that time some players spend grinding to vr 14. If this does happen then zos will lose my subscription (not that one player matters) and I'll go play a game that doesn't end. BTW there was suppose to a fourth option I pressed enter too fast!

What are you talking about? Vet zones are staying just vet ranks are gone. You got your cahmpionj points (was it 70) for the sole fact that you spend time getting to vr 14 so now either shuh or agree to give 70 champion points back.

wraith808

sadownik wrote: »

TheEmoVampire wrote: »

What about all those skill points? All that time some players spend grinding to vr 14. If this does happen then zos will lose my subscription (not that one player matters) and I'll go play a game that doesn't end. BTW there was suppose to a fourth option I pressed enter too fast!

What are you talking about? Vet zones are staying just vet ranks are gone. You got your cahmpionj points (was it 70) for the sole fact that you spend time getting to vr 14 so now either shuh or agree to give 70 champion points back.

That was not the reason for the 70 champion points. The reason for those is that people at higher level vrs have already gone through the content that others will in the future, so have less opportunity for XP because of that fact, plain and simple.

KhajitFurTrader

TheEmoVampire wrote: »

My Apologies, @Alphashado I had no intention of being biased, my closed mind has blinded me from seeing any benefits from coming from this, mostly because I cant think of any.

Ok, I stand corrected. Obviously, you didn't know already. About those benefits, let's see:

• Instead of a pseudo-horizontal progression system, we get one that's truly horizontal.
• After reaching the level cap, people no longer feel forced to additionally grind out those arbitrary ranks.
• Folks with lots of alts feel relieved even more so.
• A generous compensation had been put into place, so that those hours gaining XP have not been in vein.

All in all, the CP system is beneficial to the continuing future of the game, because the VR system was a dead end. It's your choice to cling to the past, but I haven't seen a single MMO yet that hadn't been a moving target over the course of its lifetime. Such is the nature of the beast.

wraith808

I'd disagree that the VR were a dead end- it was in the implementation, not the actual idea itself.

Is just having some 'arbitrary levels' on the end the bad part of any progression? Games have been increasing level caps for years. VRs get a lot of baggage put on them that doesn't relate to the VRs themselves.

1. The amount of experience required, and the difference between those and the lower levels.
2. Being forced to go through the other faction's storylines just to get to end game
3. Endgame being locked to an extent by progression.
4. Being unable to group together with people as the VRs tend to segregate leveling even more

Again I say, treat the problems, not the symptoms. Because treating the symptoms is going to be problematic. We've seen how many things are non-functional as it stands in the champion point system, and how much they had to struggle to get ahead of it. And that was with something new. Re-designing something so integral? There are going to be a multitude of problems, and it's not even guaranteed their solution will work or do what you think they should.

In comparison to the monumental effort required to excise VRs, it's rather easy, actually:

Scale VR1-14 in line with the other levels instead of having some arbitrary amount of XP needed.
Unlock all the content, zones, etc at VR1
Quit trying to nerf grinding.
Increase PvP XP

That does everything that is wanted, without having to go through a really complicated re-design, fraught with bugs and missteps.

You don't have to do cadwells at that point.
The XP needed will be small enough that it will go by just as fast as 1-50, no matter which way you chose to do it.

Attorneyatlawl

Veteran Rank decommission will not be beneficial, and all my time the entire year i spent playing this game all that time is now a waste.

I like 25 degree angled horizontal progression... bit of a mouthful, but my point is that options can only be so much fun with no power gain in the mix . As far as dropping veteran ranks, it opens up a whole host of rebalancing, scaling, and itemization issues while also leaving the veteran zones basically deprecated should they be removed. The complaints about veteran levels now are just the time they take.

smokes

where is the option for:

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial and all those hours I poured into levelling them have been rewarded through conversion to champion points. where's the problem?

as that is what i would've voted for.
edit: biased poll is bias
2nd edit:

your example is wrong: Imagine your 62 years of age, the retirement age. You had 1,000,000 dollars in your 401k and then someone siphons that money away how would you feel?

it's more like exchanging dollar bills for gold bars. you'll still be rich. it will simply allow for people who hit 50 and killed molag bal to actually go straight to end game like trials and pvp on a more even keel.

the current incarnation is like working to 65, getting your gold lifetime of service watch, then finding out you have to work another 100 years before you actually get to retire.

TheEmoVampire

smokes wrote: »

where is the option for:

Veteran Rank decommission will be beneficial and all those hours I poured into levelling them have been rewarded through conversion to champion points. where's the problem?

as that is what i would've voted for.
edit: biased poll is bias
2nd edit:

your example is wrong: Imagine your 62 years of age, the retirement age. You had 1,000,000 dollars in your 401k and then someone siphons that money away how would you feel?

it's more like exchanging dollar bills for gold bars. you'll still be rich. it will simply allow for people who hit 50 and killed molag bal to actually go straight to end game like trials and pvp on a more even keel.

the current incarnation is like working to 65, getting your gold lifetime of service watch, then finding out you have o work another 100 years before you actually get to retire.

I will be missing 14 skill points and attribute points, not to mention the 14,000,000 exp that took 100+ hours of my life to get. And they just take it away and give nothing to replace all of that. Also there was supposed to be a fourth option just pressed enter too fast. I've noticed everyone comments (example)"where is this option?" Answer well did you ever think hmmm well its not my poll or better yet just don't vote that's common sense if you don't see option don't bother looking.

TheEmoVampire

wraith808 wrote: »

I'd disagree that the VR were a dead end- it was in the implementation, not the actual idea itself.

Is just having some 'arbitrary levels' on the end the bad part of any progression? Games have been increasing level caps for years. VRs get a lot of baggage put on them that doesn't relate to the VRs themselves.

1. The amount of experience required, and the difference between those and the lower levels.
2. Being forced to go through the other faction's storylines just to get to end game
3. Endgame being locked to an extent by progression.
4. Being unable to group together with people as the VRs tend to segregate leveling even more

Again I say, treat the problems, not the symptoms. Because treating the symptoms is going to be problematic. We've seen how many things are non-functional as it stands in the champion point system, and how much they had to struggle to get ahead of it. And that was with something new. Re-designing something so integral? There are going to be a multitude of problems, and it's not even guaranteed their solution will work or do what you think they should.

In comparison to the monumental effort required to excise VRs, it's rather easy, actually:

Scale VR1-14 in line with the other levels instead of having some arbitrary amount of XP needed.
Unlock all the content, zones, etc at VR1
Quit trying to nerf grinding.
Increase PvP XP

That does everything that is wanted, without having to go through a really complicated re-design, fraught with bugs and missteps.

You don't have to do cadwells at that point.
The XP needed will be small enough that it will go by just as fast as 1-50, no matter which way you chose to do it.

The only problem I have with that is that I will have finished the game a lot quicker, its not like skyrim where I could just make a DLC. this is an mmo its supposed to last a while not a few months lol. But everything else you said stressed why veteran ranks are needed, people who don't have time to get to end game and then complain about it should not be playing games like this.

TheEmoVampire

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

TheEmoVampire wrote: »

My Apologies, @Alphashado I had no intention of being biased, my closed mind has blinded me from seeing any benefits from coming from this, mostly because I cant think of any.

Ok, I stand corrected. Obviously, you didn't know already. About those benefits, let's see:

• Instead of a pseudo-horizontal progression system, we get one that's truly horizontal.
• After reaching the level cap, people no longer feel forced to additionally grind out those arbitrary ranks.
• Folks with lots of alts feel relieved even more so.
• A generous compensation had been put into place, so that those hours gaining XP have not been in vein.

All in all, the CP system is beneficial to the continuing future of the game, because the VR system was a dead end. It's your choice to cling to the past, but I haven't seen a single MMO yet that hadn't been a moving target over the course of its lifetime. Such is the nature of the beast.

I also don't see the point in playing the game if I can cap out in two months ( it really only took one to get to 50, I was 50 before I got to The Rift. (Ebonheart Pact)

TheEmoVampire

sadownik wrote: »

TheEmoVampire wrote: »

What about all those skill points? All that time some players spend grinding to vr 14. If this does happen then zos will lose my subscription (not that one player matters) and I'll go play a game that doesn't end. BTW there was suppose to a fourth option I pressed enter too fast!

What are you talking about? Vet zones are staying just vet ranks are gone. You got your cahmpionj points (was it 70) for the sole fact that you spend time getting to vr 14 so now either shuh or agree to give 70 champion points back.

I was not vr 14 at the time, I only got 35 and TBH they don't do anything.

TheEmoVampire

glak wrote: »

Animal_Mother wrote: »

I would love to have the armor sets I out-levelled be viable again.

But I really don't see how ZOS can divorce Veteran Levels from the game, other than renaming them 51-65 (and actually creating content for 50-51). The entire crafting system would have to be redone, all Caldwells SIlver and Gold, Craglorn, etc.

Champion System is the intended replacement. We were given 70 Champion Points for compensation.

Champion System can not replace Veteran rank simply because champion system is not vertical progression, its an addition of buffs that don't anything until you start to pour 15+ into them and FYI only vr 14 were given that amount I only got 35, they changed how the intro was

Armitas

I'll play regardless, but prefer Veteran Rank not to be decommsionsed

If they go this route I think they should add a new branch in the World skill tree that gives you passives as you complete Caldwells silver and gold, and other achievements. (New skill points need to be made available for this)

This will allow those who don't want Vet ranks to still have an "end game" so to speak when they hit 50, and it will allow those who lost all 14 of their veteran ranks to not fell disenfranchised by the event.

I personally would like to see the Vet ranks go under these circumstances because it opens up 10 more maps in which I can farm CP at an optimal level rather than Craglorn which is terrible, and 1 other map that is packed. It also means I can farm on level mats and gear in 10 more areas. The best part is I didn't lose the effort and value I spent on 14 Vet levels.