Yay! Riding lessons on Crown Store.

nine9six

nimander99 wrote: »

How does having a faster mount equal win in combat? Can someone explain that too me? I must be stupid to think being able to buy mount points is purely convenience...

You could argue that having Person A having a faster horse than Person B gives them an advantage because if Person B is trying to flee, Person A could chase them down.

Also, Person A could flee from Person B should they feel that they'll lose the fight.

...that's just one example.

Mishanya

For those, who thinks its nor p2w.

This riding lessons are p2w for non-vet PvP. There will be raids on charged horses soon, who will be running fast from keep to keep and this is big advantage compared to non-vets on their slow horses.

nine9six

Mishanya wrote: »

For those, who thinks its nor p2w.

This riding lessons are p2w for non-vet PvP. There will be raids on charged horses soon, who will be running fast from keep to keep and this is big advantage compared to non-vets on their slow horses.

Wrong. You'll just need more time to spec-out your Mount. You have the same access to the same stats. Therefore it's not "P2W".

If you had your Mount fully maxed-out via in-game Gold, and they had an item on the Crown Store that allows you to raise your Mount stats past the cap...without offering an in-game equivalent...that would be "P2W".

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Aerius_Sygale

Oh...my...God... This better not be the only new Crown Store thing added for the whole month, if so then what a joke... DX I want. More. Costumes. Is that really asking for too much, ZOS? >_<

Slurg

nimander99 wrote: »

How does having a faster mount equal win in combat? Can someone explain that too me? I must be stupid to think being able to buy mount points is purely convenience...

It doesn't really, but it appears people who already have maxed out horses are mad that the slow moving noobs they have been farming for easy AP in Cyrodiil might have a chance to get away if they buy these boosters.

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Earelith

eliisra wrote: »

EramTheLiar wrote: »

ItsMeToo wrote: »

P2W

How exactly does this win? Mounts are useful, but they don't help you kill stuff. They are quality of life items (they help you get places faster, and improve your carry capacity).

I guess "P2QOL" just doesn't have the same bite.

Big advantages of having the best mount in PvP, or in this case a 60/60 speed and stamina one in Cyrodiil. You can for example avoid 90% of all gankers and just keep riding. Not getting killed over and over while trying to reach an objective is pretty "win" to me.

But more importantly, PvP is a horse simulator and it sucks when your mount is slow and under-levelled.

Horse bags tho, that's pure convenience.

That sounds more like "Pay to not lose" rather than "pay to win" And I just remember this article lol http://greedygoblin.blogspot.gr/2013/12/pay-to-not-lose.html

bowmanz607

ya it is not pay to win sorry.

As i think it was mentioned in a comment pay to win means that you have to pay cash in real life in order to get it or obtain an advantage over someone which they can not get without paying cash.

this is not pay to win cause everyone can max out their riding skill without paying cash. again, it is customization and convenience.

as far as the ganker argument, use caltrop that forces someone to dismount.

also, who the hell is going to pay that amount of money to max out the riding skill. if you were here before 1.6 dropped then you likely already have it maxed out and dont need to buy it. the people that came after 1.6 came because they didnt want to pay for the game (mostly), so why would they turn around to pay for mount skills.

please try to understand what pay to win is.

ItsMeToo

In PvP the people with the most APs win the best gear at the end of each campaign. If you have a faster mount you can get to the action quicker and get the APs before someone else on a slower mount. Yes, there are more factors in getting APs and when, but having a way to get there quicker is an advantage. Therefore, I said P2W to get this advantage sooner.

I already have my mount maxed out, so it doesn't affect me.

I'm not QQing, I'm posting an opinion. You can agree or disagree, but that would be QQing on your part if you disagree with me.

bowmanz607

pay to win creates an imbalance in the game b/c the the only way to get the best "stuff" is to pay for it. this is not the case here. even the benefit it does provide is not something that causes an imbalance in the game

Takllin

ItsMeToo wrote: »

In PvP the people with the most APs win the best gear at the end of each campaign. If you have a faster mount you can get to the action quicker and get the APs before someone else on a slower mount. Yes, there are more factors in getting APs and when, but having a way to get there quicker is an advantage. Therefore, I said P2W to get this advantage sooner.

I already have my mount maxed out, so it doesn't affect me.

I'm not QQing, I'm posting an opinion. You can agree or disagree, but that would be QQing on your part if you disagree with me.

That's not QQing to disagree with someone, that is called having a debate...way to be dismissive of anyone that disagrees with you...

Danikat

It's not pay to win but it is paying to bypass mechanics intended to slow your progression and tie it into playing the game.

Before the TU switch-over getting a mount with max skills required you to earn at least 45,000 gold (60+60+60 skills = 180 x 250 = 45,000). And that's assuming you got the Imperial Edition or the Palomino and therefore didn't have to spend an addition 10,000+ to buy the mount. You also had to spend at least 180 days feeding the horse.

Now a new player on day 1 can spend 18,900 gems to buy a mount and max their riding skills right away, and they're still going to earn that 45,000 gold and can spend it on other stuff.

Whether that's an issue or not is a matter of opinion, but IMO it's not a good sign for a game to encourage players to spend money to circumvent playing. Spending money in addition to playing (e.g. for cosmetics) sure, but not one as an alternative to the other.

ItsMeToo

Takllin wrote: »

ItsMeToo wrote: »

In PvP the people with the most APs win the best gear at the end of each campaign. If you have a faster mount you can get to the action quicker and get the APs before someone else on a slower mount. Yes, there are more factors in getting APs and when, but having a way to get there quicker is an advantage. Therefore, I said P2W to get this advantage sooner.

I already have my mount maxed out, so it doesn't affect me.

I'm not QQing, I'm posting an opinion. You can agree or disagree, but that would be QQing on your part if you disagree with me.

That's not QQing to disagree with someone, that is called having a debate...way to be dismissive of anyone that disagrees with you...

Now go away... you are dismissed.

mtwiggz

P2QQ!

I love it. I hope Zenimax releases more convenience items in the Crown Store, as they say they will, that players deem P2W like these riding skills. I love seeing the QQ tears all over the place.

JamilaRaj

BloodWolfe wrote: »

ItsMeToo wrote: »

P2W

Not even close, ROFL. So many ignorant people throwing around that term not knowing what it actually is.

..

P2W means buying something that gives you a tactical advantage that is purchased with real money and not obtainable in-game.

I shall skip inquiry into what makes your definition more correct than e.g. advantage for cash period, especially in light of obvious and utter lack of consensus about what the term means. Instead, let's focus on two things:
1) Trained horses give advantage and lessons AFAIK are not obtainable in-game.
2) Even if they were...The key property of any cash shop item is that it is available right now, immediately and without effort. In-game what is supposed to be counterpart to such item does not have it and can not have it, on the contrary, it must require time and effort to get it, the more the better, in order to compel players to give up and pay. So, any cash shop item that makes some sales has different properties from in-game counterpart; they are different items and therefore _not_ counterparts.

WebBull

ItsMeToo wrote: »

In PvP the people with the most APs win the best gear at the end of each campaign. If you have a faster mount you can get to the action quicker and get the APs before someone else on a slower mount. Yes, there are more factors in getting APs and when, but having a way to get there quicker is an advantage. Therefore, I said P2W to get this advantage sooner.

I already have my mount maxed out, so it doesn't affect me.

I'm not QQing, I'm posting an opinion. You can agree or disagree, but that would be QQing on your part if you disagree with me.

Look at it this way, if you don't already have a maxed out horse, you are likely nothing more than cannon fodder to the other alliances. In the long run, the slower horse will cause you less deaths. This an overall benefit to you and your alliance as you won't be supplying as many AP to the enemy.

No one is winning squat just because they have a faster horse. Funny thing here is, you can tell by the posts that the majority of the players whining about this being P2W, don't or rarely even PvP.

Bouvin

uberkull wrote: »

I think this is cool, a welcome addition. So if I do the math...(sleepy math, hope i get it right)

1000 crowns - 10 lessons.
1 lesson = 1 skill point.
60 skill points = maxed skill
6000 crowns = maxed skill

3 skill lines maxed = 18000 crowns

5500 crowns = $39.99 x 3 = 16500 crowns = $119.97
1500 crowns = $14.99
18000 crowns = $119.97 +$14.99 = $134.96

$134.96 to max out all 3 skill lines

^^^ Per character.

$134.96 * 8 Characters = $1,079.68 for all toons on account.

Here's hoping the whales out there feed ZoS some development money

Xendyn

Bouvin wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

I think this is cool, a welcome addition. So if I do the math...(sleepy math, hope i get it right)

1000 crowns - 10 lessons.
1 lesson = 1 skill point.
60 skill points = maxed skill
6000 crowns = maxed skill

3 skill lines maxed = 18000 crowns

5500 crowns = $39.99 x 3 = 16500 crowns = $119.97
1500 crowns = $14.99
18000 crowns = $119.97 +$14.99 = $134.96

$134.96 to max out all 3 skill lines

^^^ Per character.

$134.96 * 8 Characters = $1,079.68 for all toons on account.

Here's hoping the whales out there feed ZoS some development money

and may I add

Egonieser

Finally, and my monthly allotment just came in yesterday. I hate this mount training thing to begin with, at least now i have something to spend my crowns on that's actually useful for something.

ItsMeToo

FYI - My maxed out mount has saved me many times from gankers in Cyrodiil. Allowing me to get to my point of interest faster and safer. It is a game advantage that took me a long time and in game gold to get maxed out.

If someone wants to get the same advantage sooner through the Crown Shop, I don't care, but I still feel that it is a P2W item.

ZOS can put what they want in the game. If I feel it's a P2W item and someone else doesn't agree that it is, so be it. I'm going to continue playing until I decide to stop. Which won't be for along time from now.

Dru1076

I thought "yay" too....at first. Then I too ran the math. This is a great idea, but wickedly overpriced.

bowmanz607

i think that is the other point a lot of people wont want to spend the money on that. again, either u paid before 1.6 and already are maxed out or u waited till it went b2p in which case likely do not like to spend money outside the purchase of the game and so wont buy them.

Inactive Account

Potato

mwsacto_ESO

Pittance

BigM

Let see I have been to told accept or just leave. But I will play a little just never support this game again. :-D

kevlarto_ESO

That's the high price of instant gratification

hamgatan

I don't think this change has been implemented properly. The way this should have been done is that you can buy and use the Lesson Packs ONLY if you are using them on an Alternate Char and they cannot exceed the maximum achieved points on your primary.

i.e. If your Primary Toon is only 50 on Speed, 40 on Stam and 20 on Bag Weight, you could not apply any more than 5 Speed Lesson Packs, 4 Stam Lesson Packs and 2 Bag Weight Lesson Packs on an Alt.

It still needs to be an earned skill, not shortcutted.

ItsMeToo

P2W

Definition per Urban Dictionary - Pay To Win. when you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

bowmanz607

ItsMeToo wrote: »

P2W

Definition per Urban Dictionary - Pay To Win. when you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

that was the fourth definition out of 5. if we are going to pick which definition to use then...

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

Paying real life currency to beat players who are inherently better than you in any game.

so, ESO does not meet these definitions.

that said, even your definition mentions grinding very long. imo feeding a horse once a day does not fall within grinding. although it does take time you do not grind to get there.