Will tanking get better?

WyldfireWyrm

So I've tanked in several MMOs, but I know ESO has a different take on the holy trinity, especially tanking. I got my Imperial DK to level 12 and decided to join a dungeon (and I Iove that it only took a couple minutes instead of the 15-30 for my healer and the 60+ I got as a dps). I was the leader and lowest level with a 13 dps, 13 healer and 14 dps. I felt like I had very little control over the fights. Boss fights were okay, but I don't think puncture lasted it's full 12 second taunt length. It felt more like 6-8 seconds and then the boss would peel off. Anyways, I am not enjoying the role as much as I have in other MMOS (I tend to prefer healer and tank roles). Does tanking ever feel more orderly or will it pretty much always be this chaotic?

MissBizz

I find tanking to feel quite orderly, although this is the first mmo I have taken a shot at it.

As for wandering off, some bosses just have straight up mechanics that will suddenly target a random player, although I don't recall any in low level dungeons. Are you sure you are not over taunting? If you taunt too much you will lose aggro and not be able to get it back. I don't find any issues with bosses wandering away when they shouldn't.

As for trash, CC is your friend rather than taunting. Talons is amazing

I'm definitely not the most skilled player out there, but you may just want to pay extra attention next time so you know you're not accidently using puncture too much.

Hypertionb14_ESO

poke.... hold block for 14 seconds.... poke..


tanking in a nut shell..

ok maybe not but this game is pretty soft on tanking. i do know some people just struggle with it, and seem to legitimately lose aggro at random times (i always confuse them with my ability to hold aggro).

against groups, ya its better to just CC.

and those bosses that require you to taunt several mobs and hold them for the entire fight? probably the hardest but the trick there is to passively deal damage untill you are the only one they want to smack around anyways.

yes many mobs have abilitys that will always target randomly, and a few have weird issues where they can shift taunt from the tank to a random party member (Fungal Grotto spider boss does this after using her knockdown shot) but most of the time its just figuring out when to poke the mob to make sure it stays on you.

Solid_Metal

i hope they will add AoE taunt, thats the only stuff that missing for a tank imho

AhPook_Is_Here

Just hold block all the time and taunt. In large pulls use talons/veil of blades/shards or any ground targeted snare so you have time to taunt more stuff.

As for mitigation, it gets better past 20 when you can start to focus on an armor type and get your 1h/shield skills up. Still if you weren't holding block that was the biggest part of your rough ride. Block is your ticket to Namaste.

sagitter

Solid_Metal wrote: »

i hope they will add AoE taunt, thats the only stuff that missing for a tank imho

Calltrops are good for taunting aoe.

AlnilamE

When you level up a bit you will get a ranged taunt.

In large groups, you have to focus on picking up the mobs that can do the most damage (ie, two-handers, gargoyles) and try to root/snare the rest. You are a DK, so Talons, Chains and your Standard are your best friends.

I started tanking when I made a templar, and have made to DKs that focus mainly on tanking (Templar is V5, DKs are 20 and 26), and I'm finding it a lot of fun.

I've never played other MMOs, so I don't have a first-hand comparison. But if you are good at tanking, you will find that it's more than just "taunt and hold block".

Sandmanninja

Solid_Metal wrote: »

i hope they will add AoE taunt, thats the only stuff that missing for a tank imho

Give Talons am AoE morph... I would love this!

Caltrops is the closest but I don't pvp and it's taking FOREVER to get to lvl 6 to get caltrops.

I tank on my vr10 DK and I tanked in WoW for 6+ years. Completely different animal.
No small, controlled pulls. No AoE taunt. I usually keep my 2nd bar for AoE spells.
I charge into the boss, taunt, do an AoE spell.
I then charge into the middle of mob, taunt (puncture/morph), do an AoE spell.
Repeat with a few mobs.
Talons is really good. Caltrops would be ideal (but a big stamina drain). The ring of fire spell would be good as well (I'm at work and don't remember all of the spells). Mix it up - do a stam on one mob, magicka on the other. Heck, even something with a fire destruction staff.
Tanking is more about CC than taunting.
If I had to classify it, I'd say mobs=CC and boss=taunt. I try to drag the boss close to mobs, so I can taunt the boss and AoE the mob/boss.

Lynx7386

One thing I've noticed is that, in most cases, a tank isnt going to be any tougher than any other character in the game. You get a little more resilience and efficiency blocking when using a shield and/or heavy armor, but that's about it.

Often, the "tank" just ends up being a slightly tougher damage-dealer that can manipulate who's attacking who. Your job isnt to get everything attacking you, because no matter how tough you try to make your character, you probably wont survive being hit by more than 2-3 enemies at a time.

In most cases, your damage dealers can take out softer enemies quickly without the need for tanking. Say you've got two dps, a tank, and a healer, and you're taking on a group of enemies that consist of a tough two handed melee enemy, a rogue enemy, a healer enemy, and a spellcaster/mage enemy. You dont want to taunt them all, in fact you really only need to taunt the big 2h guy and the rogue. Your two damage dealers will burst down the enemy healer first, then the enemy caster, and work their way up to the tougher enemies after that's dealt with. If you had tried to taunt them all, the amount of damage you would take before the enemies die would probably result in either your death or your healer's due to cardiac arrest.

When it comes to boss fights, as long as adds are dealt with in a timely manner by your damage dealers, your real job isnt to sit there and block - it's to keep the boss under control. As a tank you should be focusing on interrupting casts, dazing/stunning whenever possible, and dishing out some damage of your own. I've found that a lot of bosses in this game hit so hard that even a full heavy armor, 1h/shield, defensive-built tank cannot withstand more than a couple of hits, and it gives your healer a panic attack when you sit there and try to soak up the damage. In those situations, you can use inner fire or puncture to taunt, and then just run around keeping yourself from getting killed while the boss chases you.

At any rate, tanking in this game is a different animal than tanking in other mmo's.

WyldfireWyrm

The abilities I'm using are Spike armor, talons, chains, puncture and stone fist. The only ability I have an issue with is talons. Either the mobs can still move around with the animation showing the talons griping them or the animation shows dust coming off the floor, but the talons don't occur. These errors only happen once every 8-10 times, but it's enough of a resource waste that it is super annoying.

My resources are pretty solid at the moment. My gear 5h/1m/1l armor all has health and magicka enchants and all attributes are in health. I feel comfortable with resources and health level, but we wiped twice. Once on a boss and once on a large mob group. In both instances I was the last one standing with no real way to do damage. I also made sure to prioritize bosses and heavy hitting mob targets with taunt and CCs. The battlefield just felt very chaotic compared to other MMOs and I'm just wondering if it gets any easier to deal with as time goes by. I'm not the strongest multitasker and with no multiple target taunt, I'm thinking it won't get any worry for me personally. It was always so easy in MMOS with an aggro system. Plus without any way of having voice chat, I can't see who might be getting swarmed while I'm holding a boss or group of mobs.

It might be different in the Xbox when it comes out in a week. Maybe the voice chat and difference in controls will make it easier or more understandable for me. Since none of my progress on PC will count towards my Xbox copy, I'll be taking the next week off and doing some more research on tanking.

WyldfireWyrm

Lynx7386 wrote: »

One thing I've noticed is that, in most cases, a tank isnt going to be any tougher than any other character in the game. You get a little more resilience and efficiency blocking when using a shield and/or heavy armor, but that's about it.

Often, the "tank" just ends up being a slightly tougher damage-dealer that can manipulate who's attacking who. Your job isnt to get everything attacking you, because no matter how tough you try to make your character, you probably wont survive being hit by more than 2-3 enemies at a time.

In most cases, your damage dealers can take out softer enemies quickly without the need for tanking. Say you've got two dps, a tank, and a healer, and you're taking on a group of enemies that consist of a tough two handed melee enemy, a rogue enemy, a healer enemy, and a spellcaster/mage enemy. You dont want to taunt them all, in fact you really only need to taunt the big 2h guy and the rogue. Your two damage dealers will burst down the enemy healer first, then the enemy caster, and work their way up to the tougher enemies after that's dealt with. If you had tried to taunt them all, the amount of damage you would take before the enemies die would probably result in either your death or your healer's due to cardiac arrest.

When it comes to boss fights, as long as adds are dealt with in a timely manner by your damage dealers, your real job isnt to sit there and block - it's to keep the boss under control. As a tank you should be focusing on interrupting casts, dazing/stunning whenever possible, and dishing out some damage of your own. I've found that a lot of bosses in this game hit so hard that even a full heavy armor, 1h/shield, defensive-built tank cannot withstand more than a couple of hits, and it gives your healer a panic attack when you sit there and try to soak up the damage. In those situations, you can use inner fire or puncture to taunt, and then just run around keeping yourself from getting killed while the boss chases you.

At any rate, tanking in this game is a different animal than tanking in other mmo's.

That is part of my fear. Feeling like I take a huge dps loss while only being able to take a few extra hits than any other role could. Plus the idea of taunting, then running around in circles seems like a waste of a role. I have issues with interrupts, but I have my heavy attack blocks down well. And I'm not standing in the red zones (if I can help it) trying to be invincible.

I'm just wondering if being a healer or dps will be a better use of my skills (or perhaps lack there of).

SienneYviete

just a tip from another Dk tank, magma armor is your god mode ulti the amount of times this abilty can save you and your group from wiping is huge, your group goes down drop magma armor, get your healer up and carry on.

PhatGrimReaper

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

..... but we wiped twice. Once on a boss and once on a large mob group. In both instances I was the last one standing with no real way to do damage.

Try Talons + Draw Essence for trash.... it's not huge damage, but the self heal keeps you going and the magicka return allows you to use often. You drop mobs super fast, but you will tear them down through sheer attrition.

UrQuan

What do you mean when you ask if tanking in ESO will "get better"? Are you asking if the mechanics of it will change, or are you asking if, with more experience, you'll start to understand and enjoy it more?

I mean, I think you're asking the latter, but I'm not sure.

Veridiano02

Lynx7386 wrote: »

One thing I've noticed is that, in most cases, a tank isnt going to be any tougher than any other character in the game. You get a little more resilience and efficiency blocking when using a shield and/or heavy armor, but that's about it.

Often, the "tank" just ends up being a slightly tougher damage-dealer that can manipulate who's attacking who. Your job isnt to get everything attacking you, because no matter how tough you try to make your character, you probably wont survive being hit by more than 2-3 enemies at a time.

In most cases, your damage dealers can take out softer enemies quickly without the need for tanking. Say you've got two dps, a tank, and a healer, and you're taking on a group of enemies that consist of a tough two handed melee enemy, a rogue enemy, a healer enemy, and a spellcaster/mage enemy. You dont want to taunt them all, in fact you really only need to taunt the big 2h guy and the rogue. Your two damage dealers will burst down the enemy healer first, then the enemy caster, and work their way up to the tougher enemies after that's dealt with. If you had tried to taunt them all, the amount of damage you would take before the enemies die would probably result in either your death or your healer's due to cardiac arrest.

When it comes to boss fights, as long as adds are dealt with in a timely manner by your damage dealers, your real job isnt to sit there and block - it's to keep the boss under control. As a tank you should be focusing on interrupting casts, dazing/stunning whenever possible, and dishing out some damage of your own. I've found that a lot of bosses in this game hit so hard that even a full heavy armor, 1h/shield, defensive-built tank cannot withstand more than a couple of hits, and it gives your healer a panic attack when you sit there and try to soak up the damage. In those situations, you can use inner fire or puncture to taunt, and then just run around keeping yourself from getting killed while the boss chases you.

At any rate, tanking in this game is a different animal than tanking in other mmo's.

Not exactly true. I've tanked groups of enemies or even 2-3 elite mobs and a boss without dropping my life. Just use your blocking, taunt and CC skills right. I'm tanking with a sorcerer, and with "Restraining prision" I don't usually allow any mobs to pass. Against some groups, I don't even use any taunt. Just Restraining prision + Thundering presence + Supresion field, and Restrainig prision again. Also, you should master the use of shields, like "Hardened Ward". I think the DK has an ultimate, "Freocious Leap", that allows himto jump into the action, with an AoE stun and a 100% life shield. Thinks like that can save your life when your Healer are overwhelmed.

sebban

I'm assuming you are talking about lvl 12 and not VR12. Tanking will get better. It can be difficult at lower levels when you don't have enough resources and haven't unlocked all the skills that makes life as a tank easier. Once you unlock weapon swap at 15, you can have 1h+shield on both bars and expand on the number of skills you can use, this helps alot. And with more skill slots available, some of them can be used for additional DPS.

Don't give up yet, it gets better.

Suru

try tanking normal and vDSA trials tanking is boring for the most part but does take a bit of aptitude

xaraan

I think it varies depending on the group you run with. For the longest time (since launch really) I've run as a NB tank and found it pretty orderly if the group lets you pull and doesn't rush in. I also have a DK tank and Templar tank - the playstyle for each is a little different. I mean - the overall strategy is the same - taunt the biggest threat and block, but once you get past that it's a bit more varied. With my NB I can literally taunt every single mob in a pull, even a huge one and never run out of resources or get killed because sap/siphon is so useful in this area and it makes up for not having CCs, but the class can be lacking in single target boss fights in the area of no class shields, no burst heals (not counting after something is dead, which doesn't matter in a boss fight most times) so you have to build to be ready for those shortcomings. The DK tank is quite tough, can CC, shield, self-heal, etc. but I've found I prefer pulling aggro to CC most of the time, so DK has been my least fav tank class even though it's probably designed for the role and handles trash and bosses both well. Templar has really grown for me to be a favorite tank class. The ability to toss some breath of lifes out there to heal myself or help the healer when times get tough is nice, and skills like repentance are perfect for the role. The only shortcoming is not having class CC and I cannot afford to use as much stamina taunting every mob as on my NB, but with my group it hasn't been an issue.

One good thing to use when you can is pick up caltrops. It can unofficially aggro everything on you if you throw it out at the start of combat (its not a taunt, but by being the first to hit the mobs they will at least attack you initially more often than not) and it also snares everything in the area. (Also, if you are imperial, it can proc your imperial passive to recover health).

Darkeus

the lack of an aoe taunt made me quit tanking... i started as dk tank nord and in 40 lvls i realized it isnt for me.

Peekachu99

Darkeus wrote: »

the lack of an aoe taunt made me quit tanking... i started as dk tank nord and in 40 lvls i realized it isnt for me.

Game needs an aoe taunt, for sure.

theweakminded

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Darkeus wrote: »

the lack of an aoe taunt made me quit tanking... i started as dk tank nord and in 40 lvls i realized it isnt for me.

Game needs an aoe taunt, for sure.

Divines no, that would make tanking as mindless as other games (already a bit mindless as it is). Tanking in this game really does not require threat on every mob. Your focus should be mobs that do 1) heavy melee dmg b) CC and after that anything you can pick up. Obviously any bosses should be tanked, but taunting is easy enough as is. You do not really need to hold every caster and archer or weak little mob. It is wasted effort you could put into bashing, killing, and blocking.

theweakminded

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

So I've tanked in several MMOs, but I know ESO has a different take on the holy trinity, especially tanking. I got my Imperial DK to level 12 and decided to join a dungeon (and I Iove that it only took a couple minutes instead of the 15-30 for my healer and the 60+ I got as a dps). I was the leader and lowest level with a 13 dps, 13 healer and 14 dps. I felt like I had very little control over the fights. Boss fights were okay, but I don't think puncture lasted it's full 12 second taunt length. It felt more like 6-8 seconds and then the boss would peel off. Anyways, I am not enjoying the role as much as I have in other MMOS (I tend to prefer healer and tank roles). Does tanking ever feel more orderly or will it pretty much always be this chaotic?

Te help you best I can, its both chaotic and orderly. Focus on tanking the mobs that are a threats Boss>big adds on boss>cc mobs (2h/sword and shield are common ones)> anything oyu have the spare resource to taunt. When you are looking at big trash pulls, the mobs are not all that dangerous. Some are and some aren't. It is all about knowing which is which.

Aside from taunting, group mob cc and bashing are your top priorities and then damage with spare resources that will not get you killed. As a dk, talons is your best bet for group cc. Can keep melee mobs off ranged without a need to taunt.

JonzzLonewolf

In my opinion, the only thing that makes tanking less boring is the lack of an aoe taunt. Besides, it's always funny to see an overeager dpser jump into a pack of mobs first and commit suicide (guilty).

plattypussb16_ESO

Was it spindleclutch where you had the demoralizing experience or Banished Cells?

Regardless it doesn't matter but I have had similar experiences and I have tanked quite often in quite a few other MMO's. It does take some time to master the use of cc and the single target taunt but it will get easier as you master the skill set. Also keep in mind that the player you are playing with in theory will also get better and a little smarter with their use of cc and damage which should make your job as a tank much easier.

I like tanking in ESO, to me it reflects the true chaos of combat and a smarter enemy not all blindly heading to the guy screaming "over here!".

Iselin

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

So I've tanked in several MMOs, but I know ESO has a different take on the holy trinity, especially tanking. I got my Imperial DK to level 12 and decided to join a dungeon (and I Iove that it only took a couple minutes instead of the 15-30 for my healer and the 60+ I got as a dps). I was the leader and lowest level with a 13 dps, 13 healer and 14 dps. I felt like I had very little control over the fights. Boss fights were okay, but I don't think puncture lasted it's full 12 second taunt length. It felt more like 6-8 seconds and then the boss would peel off. Anyways, I am not enjoying the role as much as I have in other MMOS (I tend to prefer healer and tank roles). Does tanking ever feel more orderly or will it pretty much always be this chaotic?

Yes. It does get better and becomes actually necessary eventually. That first threesome of dungeons as well as the next 6 or 9 can actually be done easier without a tank as long as everyone has got the hang of when to block, dodge roll and knows to stay out of boss AOE. Those tankless groups can DPS everything down much quicker.

The only non-DPS role needed for those is a healer.

But by the time you hit 50 and start running VR dungeons you will want to be a good tank that uses all the tricks to hold the boss's attention (as much as possible -- many, many bosses in this game have mechanics that will target others regardless of what you do) and gather and hold adds in a bunch for DPS to AOE down quickly.

I've even run VR dungeons with some tanks that have enough self and other heals that no healer or just a few off-heals was required.

Consider 1-50 as your own training to tank time

Darkeus

i sugest aoe taunt ultimate at a moderate cost ~100 ultimate

AlnilamE

OP, what server/faction are you on? If you are in NA, I have toons at the 20-25 level in each faction right now, and I'd be happy to group with you for dungeons. I have done the first and second tiers enough times that I'm quite familiar with them.

solipsist

Isn't Inner Rage supposed to be an AOE taunt? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

AlnilamE

Nope. Inner Fire and its morphs are single target.

UrQuan

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Darkeus wrote: »

the lack of an aoe taunt made me quit tanking... i started as dk tank nord and in 40 lvls i realized it isnt for me.

Game needs an aoe taunt, for sure.

Gah, no. I mean if you want tanking to become ridiculously easy point-and-click, no thought or skill required, then I guess so. The whole thing that makes tanking in ESO fun and interesting is that you can't just taunt everything and sit there and absorb their attacks - you have to choose the biggest threats and taunt those. If you want to try to get all the mobs on you, then you have to use something like caltrops to "soft-taunt" them just by doing damage to them first, but that's better than a true AOE taunt because it won't keep those mobs from going after your DPS if they start doing a bunch of damage to them. That keeps it so that your group has to actually think about what they're doing, and use a little strategy instead of just mindlessly going at it.

solipsist wrote: »

Isn't Inner Rage supposed to be an AOE taunt? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No, it's not. It's a ranged taunt, but it's not an AOE.

WyldfireWyrm

AlnilamE wrote: »

OP, what server/faction are you on? If you are in NA, I have toons at the 20-25 level in each faction right now, and I'd be happy to group with you for dungeons. I have done the first and second tiers enough times that I'm quite familiar with them.

I appreciate the offer. However, I'm making the move to xbox. Since the copy happened yesterday and no progress will be made towards my characters from here on out on the Xbox account, I'm taking the week off of playing. But I'm AD on the NA server, so whatever that translates to fit the Xbox, I'll gladly accept your offer if you're going to be on the console version.

Well it sounds like tanking might get a little better once I unlock some other skills and reach higher levels. I'll keep going to level 30ish and reassess it then.