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Wasn't Champion System Supposed to Replace Veteran Grind?
Rook_Master
✭✭✭✭✭
As I understood it, the Champion System was supposed to replace Veteran Ranks in terms of end-game progression.
Now that the Champion System is implemented, can someone please explain why I have to grind through 14 million XP to get to V14 on an alt? Ostensibly you will hit "max level" at V1 in the future, so why do I still need to grind 1 million XP per Vet Rank still? Why can't it be like 200k XP to get a Vet Rank?
What's the excuse? The forced questing through Cadwell's Silver/Gold has no bearing on this matter, since it will be obsolete anyways when level 50 becomes end-game. All gear will be scaled to 50, so there is no longer any gear progression between V1-14.
I just really don't understand it. Why do I have to grind my face against the wall to have a viable alt at this moment in time? Is there some reason the amount of XP it takes to gain a Vet Rank can't be reduced?
Can someone explain it to me?
Now that the Champion System is implemented, can someone please explain why I have to grind through 14 million XP to get to V14 on an alt? Ostensibly you will hit "max level" at V1 in the future, so why do I still need to grind 1 million XP per Vet Rank still? Why can't it be like 200k XP to get a Vet Rank?
What's the excuse? The forced questing through Cadwell's Silver/Gold has no bearing on this matter, since it will be obsolete anyways when level 50 becomes end-game. All gear will be scaled to 50, so there is no longer any gear progression between V1-14.
I just really don't understand it. Why do I have to grind my face against the wall to have a viable alt at this moment in time? Is there some reason the amount of XP it takes to gain a Vet Rank can't be reduced?
Can someone explain it to me?
1
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shhhhh
Someone might read this and feel that their argument about VR levels needs to go here.
I do believe the real answer according to support articles and ZOS info is that this process took a lot longer than they thought. They also kept moving attention from one project o another so the items that caused delay would be interpreted as:
-Console release
-Spell crafting focus changed to justice system
I'm sure there are other things but those two are noted in the knowledge base articles.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
docstrawb✭✭✭I have a suspicion they arent going anywhere. Think about the sheer overhaul to content/gear they would have to do. My bet is they eventually say "we meant getting rid of vet points, not vet ranks." which they've done.3 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have a suspicion they arent going anywhere. Think about the sheer overhaul to content/gear they would have to do. My bet is they eventually say "we meant getting rid of vet points, not vet ranks." which they've done.
But that's the OP question. If they aren't removing vet ranks why do we have champion levels and why is the vet level exp so high-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not yet. champion system is just part of the six month process of eliminating get ranks. They said this process would occur in stages.3 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store (like somehow making it part of some kind of paid DLC? IDK...), I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.Edited by Divinius on 27 May 2015 17:381 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Because it would be a waste of valuable development resources that would be better spent removing the VR levels once and for all.
How's that for an answer.
Why do you feel you need to grind to V14? If you don't want to, don't.
This should be a one-line change in the code somewhere. If this takes more than a few man-hours, then the way they programmed it is insane.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭
They "say" a lot of things...NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
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Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I have a suspicion they arent going anywhere. Think about the sheer overhaul to content/gear they would have to do. My bet is they eventually say "we meant getting rid of vet points, not vet ranks." which they've done.
But that's the OP question. If they aren't removing vet ranks why do we have champion levels and why is the vet level exp so high
Exactly.
To put it another way, the end-result is that you are essentially going to be "V14" or "end-game" sometime when you hit 50 in the future, probably in Cold Harbour. That is their intention.
What the heck is the point of having us slog through Vet Ranks in the meantime if the end-result of reducing the XP it takes is the same?0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Because it would be a waste of valuable development resources that would be better spent removing the VR levels once and for all.
How's that for an answer.
Why do you feel you need to grind to V14? If you don't want to, don't.
This should be a one-line change in the code somewhere. If this takes more than a few man-hours, then the way they programmed it is insane.
Some are assuming much about his they plan to remove the vet ranks. They have not been clear about that. As of just a couple months ago they were clear they had not decided yet. We could become lvl 64, for example. Somehow they need to work in the skill points and and attribute points earned after lvl 50 if they crush us down in that manner. Much to decide before even thinking of programming.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Problem is XP is how you earn CP.
So remove the veteran grind which yields the most XP without something to replace it CP grind would take longer than our lifetime.
They nerfed all the good grind spots also.
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Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »Because it would be a waste of valuable development resources that would be better spent removing the VR levels once and for all.
How's that for an answer.
Why do you feel you need to grind to V14? If you don't want to, don't.
This should be a one-line change in the code somewhere. If this takes more than a few man-hours, then the way they programmed it is insane.
Some are assuming much about his they plan to remove the vet ranks. They have not been clear about that. As of just a couple months ago they were clear they had not decided yet. We could become lvl 64, for example. Somehow they need to work in the skill points and and attribute points earned after lvl 50 if they crush us down in that manner. Much to decide before even thinking of programming.
If they change it to level 63 instead of Vet 14, and don't reduce the XP required to gain levels, then nothing is changed.
If it takes one million to go from 50 to 51, then I don't care what they call it, it is the same.1 -
docstrawb✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »But that's the OP question. If they aren't removing vet ranks why do we have champion levels and why is the vet level exp so high
Because that is the point. IMO, they made it sound as if they were getting rid of vet ranks. But i don't believe they will. I love bethesda and all of their games, but I have been constantly disappointed by their actions on eso (inb4 its ZOS not bethesda, its all the same.) They rarely give feedback about things ppl care about, outside of PVP bugs, its all about plushie giveaways and the crown store. They take the greatest idea, spellcrafting, and shelf it for a novelty justice system. Why wouldn't they use wordplay on us to hype the champion system. They replaced vet points. Not ranks, but points. Replaced them with regular XP. I won't argue too much, because honestly, I hope I am wrong, but I just kinda think thats it.Why do you feel you need to grind to V14? If you don't want to, don't.
Because having a vr1 is no different than having a lvl 20. Endgame is vr14. till you reach it, you can't effectively participate.2 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
They could literally announce it every 30 seconds in game and people would still make these threads.
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "ESO Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.Edited by MCMancub on 27 May 2015 17:500 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
They could literally announce it every 30 seconds in game and people would still make these threads.
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If you have access to some sort of Zenimax master plan for veteran rank removal, I'd definitely like to see that, so please link to it.
Otherwise, I'd say I do a good job following Zenimax, and they've been pretty tight-lipped in this regard, except to say that they are in fact doing away with the vet rank system at some point in time.
Anyways, it is irrelevant to my point that reducing the current XP required to gain a vet rank now, would have absolutely no bearing on changes that would be made in the future, and would in fact, please a lot of the playerbase, considering that even Zenimax has admitted that the veteran grind was a mistake.0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »
What the heck is the point of having us slog through Vet Ranks in the meantime if the end-result of reducing the XP it takes is the same?NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I have a suspicion they arent going anywhere. Think about the sheer overhaul to content/gear they would have to do. My bet is they eventually say "we meant getting rid of vet points, not vet ranks." which they've done.
But that's the OP question. If they aren't removing vet ranks why do we have champion levels and why is the vet level exp so high
The current "end game goal" is VR14. Post removal of the veteran system, you will still do the same thing you do now once you hit level 50, but the "end game goal" will change to acquiring CP.0 -
docstrawb✭✭✭
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If this were true, we would already have spellcrafting. They continually delay (ie: cancel and just stall the playerbase with a clear answer) things they say are coming. These kinds of threads need to be spammed in the thread to hopefully wake them up. We all want new content, more choices, less grind. We don't want recolored senche tigers and guar.0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
They could literally announce it every 30 seconds in game and people would still make these threads.
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If you have access to some sort of Zenimax master plan for veteran rank removal, I'd definitely like to see that, so please link to it.
Otherwise, I'd say I do a good job following Zenimax, and they've been pretty tight-lipped in this regard, except to say that they are in fact doing away with the vet rank system at some point in time.
Anyways, it is irrelevant to my point that reducing the current XP required to gain a vet rank now, would have absolutely no bearing on changes that would be made in the future, and would in fact, please a lot of the playerbase, considering that even Zenimax has admitted that the veteran grind was a mistake.
How about the first result...
Source
It isn't ZoS directly, but it's a reputable site that I'm sure uses ZoS as their source. Again, stop making these threads and doing a simple google search and you'd see that all of this has been covered for months now.0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I still think people are asking the wrong question - the real one that matters is:
'Why are there not more varied and interesting ways to gain XP for my characters instead of being pushed to go through the same set of quests over and over again'
I don't think it matters if you are grinding for Vet or grinding for CP - the reality is that the 13 million XP you need to level up to VR14 is dwarved by the 1.4 BILLION XP you need to max out CP or even by the 432 million you need to gain all the passives going.
Right now they may or may not be able to remove Vet levels without causing chaos and anger but how is that going to make your game playing better - you are still going to need to do something to gain XP and that something is still going to be Cadwell's Silver & Gold quests or whatever else you do now...
Personally I wish they'd just drop the whole thing, announce it and focus any efforts on producing lots and lots of quality new content so that those who hate the existing quests have other options...GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum3 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If this were true, we would already have spellcrafting. They continually delay (ie: cancel and just stall the playerbase with a clear answer) things they say are coming. These kinds of threads need to be spammed in the thread to hopefully wake them up. We all want new content, more choices, less grind. We don't want recolored senche tigers and guar.
Find me a source that says they are actively working on releasing Spellcrafting at a specific time. There isn't one. Spellcrafting has only ever showed up on road maps, which are more of a "we'd like to do this" list, and not a "we're currently working on this" list.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So not tagging or quoting anyone specifically but a lot of this stuff is either on the support pages, developer threads, news threads, etc.
I just thought to reply and offer some posted info.
Next update on this isn't until August so it assumed but maybe July.
Per ZOS it'll be after console launch but I didn't sound like soon after console launch-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »I still think people are asking the wrong question - the real one that matters is:
'Why are there not more varied and interesting ways to gain XP for my characters instead of being pushed to go through the same set of quests over and over again'
THIS! ESO's end game content model is actually really good, but terribly, terribly implemented. XP should be balanced across the board so you're actually rewarding for doing something other than Cadwell's Silver/Gold.0 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
They could literally announce it every 30 seconds in game and people would still make these threads.
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If you have access to some sort of Zenimax master plan for veteran rank removal, I'd definitely like to see that, so please link to it.
Otherwise, I'd say I do a good job following Zenimax, and they've been pretty tight-lipped in this regard, except to say that they are in fact doing away with the vet rank system at some point in time.
Anyways, it is irrelevant to my point that reducing the current XP required to gain a vet rank now, would have absolutely no bearing on changes that would be made in the future, and would in fact, please a lot of the playerbase, considering that even Zenimax has admitted that the veteran grind was a mistake.
How about the first result...
Source
It isn't ZoS directly, but it's a reputable site that I'm sure uses ZoS as their source. Again, stop making these threads and doing a simple google search and you'd see that all of this has been covered for months now.
So you linked to a third-party website post from back in February that describes the current functionality of the Champion System.
I am talking about the future, here, such as the phases you mentioned.0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
They could literally announce it every 30 seconds in game and people would still make these threads.
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If you have access to some sort of Zenimax master plan for veteran rank removal, I'd definitely like to see that, so please link to it.
Otherwise, I'd say I do a good job following Zenimax, and they've been pretty tight-lipped in this regard, except to say that they are in fact doing away with the vet rank system at some point in time.
Anyways, it is irrelevant to my point that reducing the current XP required to gain a vet rank now, would have absolutely no bearing on changes that would be made in the future, and would in fact, please a lot of the playerbase, considering that even Zenimax has admitted that the veteran grind was a mistake.
How about the first result...
Source
It isn't ZoS directly, but it's a reputable site that I'm sure uses ZoS as their source. Again, stop making these threads and doing a simple google search and you'd see that all of this has been covered for months now.
So you linked to a third-party website post from back in February that describes the current functionality of the Champion System.
I am talking about the future, here, such as the phases you mentioned.
For those with a lack of reading comprehension:Elder Scrolls Online’s plan to roll out the Champion System in update 1.6 introduce a new type of advancement system. This is part two of their phasing out the Veteran Ranks and moving to a new type of account advancement where your progression is tied to your overall account. Keep in mind, this guide is written during testing and will change as content moves forward. I will do my best to update it whenever possible.0 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »
What the heck is the point of having us slog through Vet Ranks in the meantime if the end-result of reducing the XP it takes is the same?NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I have a suspicion they arent going anywhere. Think about the sheer overhaul to content/gear they would have to do. My bet is they eventually say "we meant getting rid of vet points, not vet ranks." which they've done.
But that's the OP question. If they aren't removing vet ranks why do we have champion levels and why is the vet level exp so high
The current "end game goal" is VR14. Post removal of the veteran system, you will still do the same thing you do now once you hit level 50, but the "end game goal" will change to acquiring CP.
So...Champion Rank 3600 gear instead of VR14 sets?0 -
docstrawb✭✭✭
Find me a source that says they are actively working on releasing Spellcrafting at a specific time. There isn't one. Spellcrafting has only ever showed up on road maps, which are more of a "we'd like to do this" list, and not a "we're currently working on this" list.
uh......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LkeMacg-b0 52:58
Do the slightest amount of research at the least before making claims, plz.0 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
They could literally announce it every 30 seconds in game and people would still make these threads.
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If you have access to some sort of Zenimax master plan for veteran rank removal, I'd definitely like to see that, so please link to it.
Otherwise, I'd say I do a good job following Zenimax, and they've been pretty tight-lipped in this regard, except to say that they are in fact doing away with the vet rank system at some point in time.
Anyways, it is irrelevant to my point that reducing the current XP required to gain a vet rank now, would have absolutely no bearing on changes that would be made in the future, and would in fact, please a lot of the playerbase, considering that even Zenimax has admitted that the veteran grind was a mistake.
How about the first result...
Source
It isn't ZoS directly, but it's a reputable site that I'm sure uses ZoS as their source. Again, stop making these threads and doing a simple google search and you'd see that all of this has been covered for months now.
So you linked to a third-party website post from back in February that describes the current functionality of the Champion System.
I am talking about the future, here, such as the phases you mentioned.
For those with a lack of reading comprehension:Elder Scrolls Online’s plan to roll out the Champion System in update 1.6 introduce a new type of advancement system. This is part two of their phasing out the Veteran Ranks and moving to a new type of account advancement where your progression is tied to your overall account. Keep in mind, this guide is written during testing and will change as content moves forward. I will do my best to update it whenever possible.
That is simply wild speculation on Deltia's part.
He calls it "phase two" because the first part was removing Veteran Points. He has no freaking clue what phase 3 is because there is no set plan with phases.1 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »
What the heck is the point of having us slog through Vet Ranks in the meantime if the end-result of reducing the XP it takes is the same?NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I have a suspicion they arent going anywhere. Think about the sheer overhaul to content/gear they would have to do. My bet is they eventually say "we meant getting rid of vet points, not vet ranks." which they've done.
But that's the OP question. If they aren't removing vet ranks why do we have champion levels and why is the vet level exp so high
The current "end game goal" is VR14. Post removal of the veteran system, you will still do the same thing you do now once you hit level 50, but the "end game goal" will change to acquiring CP.
So...Champion Rank 3600 gear instead of VR14 sets?
I would think closer to 120, but that's just a guess. You get about 90 doing Cadwell's Silver/Gold.0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭@Rook_Master
You're still not googling. Here's another. Took me, like, 6 seconds to find it.In The Elder Scrolls Online, Veteran Levels, commonly called Veteran Ranks or "VR", are the levels reached after reaching level 50.[1] The system is not going to be in place forever and will soon be replaced by a new system called the Champion System, which is rolling out in 4 phases, and 2 phases are already implemented.
Straight from the Wiki.1