The next step... Vampires

Mivryna

Hm... I generally like vampires as they are now, but they could use some tweaking. The #1 weakness is the fact that fire is so strong against us, and it's nearly everywhere.
It's also the most powerful element of the trio for sheer damage, and thus it's what a ton of people use in PvP. Thus it's a massive weakness without enough benefits to make up for it. Undeath is nice, but it's still not enough to make up for the fire. In nearly every group I've been in, people consider my vampirism to be a weakness with no real benefit.

What I'd suggest is giving Ice and Lightning a buff in general so more people have a reason to choose it over fire. Lightning could have more burst damage, fire could have sustained damage, and ice could just have harsher secondary effects, or something.

Anyone who plays Pokemon should know that a resistance doesn't stop a weakness from being a weakness. Thus I'd suggest that vampires then get a resistance to cold and cold effects, and perhaps necrosis and/or oblivion damage. Then element-wise, vampires would still be pretty squishy against most threats, but we could still shine in a few spots. The Destro-Staff metagame would also become much more dynamic, too.


In addition to this, I think making guards attack stage-4 vampires could be interesting, but also problematic. Technically in many provinces it's not illegal to be a vampire. Perhaps it could prevent NPCs from dealing with you, or something. If they were to go the guards-kill-on-sight route, they should at least increase the time for each stage.

Fizzlewizzle

Already wrote something about this in a topic of my own:
Suggestions for Vampires

I think that, Rather than giving them a complete overhaul with new extra stuff, they should rework some skills so they can actually work decently in the current version of the game.
Asking a whole list of new stuff to balance out their weaknesses will (most likely) never be considered. Atm they are understaffed because everyone is focusing on Consoles, leaving their (current) playerbase with very little staff to attend the problems. Giving them small stuff to work on might actually increase the chance of anything happening.

Creating new skills + new lore + animations + new quests is a whole lot more work then adding or removing some lines of code from a current skill, balancing it out to the current version of the game.

Back to topic:
Vampires started OP, then got nerfed so they would be balanced. After that there was another (few) updates which buffed a lot of stuff (Fighters guild skills, as well as flame damage in PvP) which put Vampires in a huge disadvantage.

I won't start about boosting Vampires back to what they were at the start of the game, but they should at least make it possible to set a foot inside Cyrodiil without instantly dying.

Their skills are all decent, but have a few major flaws with the current game content.

Drain essence Seems to count as a stun rather then an attack. with the high amount of CC that is being ditched out these days you can't use that skill (nor does it work on bosses). If it only works 1 per target, then make it so it can be used regardless of who your enemy is and if he has CC immunity (if they have that, then they shouldn't be stunned, but we should still deal damage and heal).

Mist form is a very good tool to counter the high Fire damage and all those Fighters guild skills.
It has a lot of positives, but it doesn't last long, and you don't gain any Magicka or Stamina while it's active.
(Not being able to attack or be healed is fair, as you are also immune to CC.)
It is the Vampires only shield against a lot of stuff, but you are unable to keep it up as you don't regen any magicka.
(Not gaining any Stamina isn't really the problem, as you can't block or run anyway.)

Making it a toggle, having it drain your magicka (like the Guard skill in the AVA skill tree) and giving the player Magicka regen while its active would give them a decent protection. They can't attack, but it would be a bit much to ask that privilege also.

Chrlynsch

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Already wrote something about this in a topic of my own:
Suggestions for Vampires

I think that, Rather than giving them a complete overhaul with new extra stuff, they should rework some skills so they can actually work decently in the current version of the game.
Asking a whole list of new stuff to balance out their weaknesses will (most likely) never be considered. Atm they are understaffed because everyone is focusing on Consoles, leaving their (current) playerbase with very little staff to attend the problems. Giving them small stuff to work on might actually increase the chance of anything happening.

Creating new skills + new lore + animations + new quests is a whole lot more work then adding or removing some lines of code from a current skill, balancing it out to the current version of the game.

Back to topic:
Vampires started OP, then got nerfed so they would be balanced. After that there was another (few) updates which buffed a lot of stuff (Fighters guild skills, as well as flame damage in PvP) which put Vampires in a huge disadvantage.

I won't start about boosting Vampires back to what they were at the start of the game, but they should at least make it possible to set a foot inside Cyrodiil without instantly dying.

Their skills are all decent, but have a few major flaws with the current game content.

Drain essence Seems to count as a stun rather then an attack. with the high amount of CC that is being ditched out these days you can't use that skill (nor does it work on bosses). If it only works 1 per target, then make it so it can be used regardless of who your enemy is and if he has CC immunity (if they have that, then they shouldn't be stunned, but we should still deal damage and heal).

Mist form is a very good tool to counter the high Fire damage and all those Fighters guild skills.
It has a lot of positives, but it doesn't last long, and you don't gain any Magicka or Stamina while it's active.
(Not being able to attack or be healed is fair, as you are also immune to CC.)
It is the Vampires only shield against a lot of stuff, but you are unable to keep it up as you don't regen any magicka.
(Not gaining any Stamina isn't really the problem, as you can't block or run anyway.)

Making it a toggle, having it drain your magicka (like the Guard skill in the AVA skill tree) and giving the player Magicka regen while its active would give them a decent protection. They can't attack, but it would be a bit much to ask that privilege also.

Lots of great points here! Drain essence really needs reworked. The ability to use it only once per target is really not cool. That fact that it stuns it's opponent is nice but the fact that it essentially stuns you as well is broken. Drop block and leaves you open to a wold of hurt. Overall the ability kills your dps as well. Would prefer a tether like ability that *steals* resources

Toggle mist would rock

dodgehopper_ESO

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Already wrote something about this in a topic of my own:
Suggestions for Vampires

I think that, Rather than giving them a complete overhaul with new extra stuff, they should rework some skills so they can actually work decently in the current version of the game.
Asking a whole list of new stuff to balance out their weaknesses will (most likely) never be considered. Atm they are understaffed because everyone is focusing on Consoles, leaving their (current) playerbase with very little staff to attend the problems. Giving them small stuff to work on might actually increase the chance of anything happening.

Creating new skills + new lore + animations + new quests is a whole lot more work then adding or removing some lines of code from a current skill, balancing it out to the current version of the game.

Back to topic:
Vampires started OP, then got nerfed so they would be balanced. After that there was another (few) updates which buffed a lot of stuff (Fighters guild skills, as well as flame damage in PvP) which put Vampires in a huge disadvantage.

I won't start about boosting Vampires back to what they were at the start of the game, but they should at least make it possible to set a foot inside Cyrodiil without instantly dying.

Their skills are all decent, but have a few major flaws with the current game content.

Drain essence Seems to count as a stun rather then an attack. with the high amount of CC that is being ditched out these days you can't use that skill (nor does it work on bosses). If it only works 1 per target, then make it so it can be used regardless of who your enemy is and if he has CC immunity (if they have that, then they shouldn't be stunned, but we should still deal damage and heal).

Mist form is a very good tool to counter the high Fire damage and all those Fighters guild skills.
It has a lot of positives, but it doesn't last long, and you don't gain any Magicka or Stamina while it's active.
(Not being able to attack or be healed is fair, as you are also immune to CC.)
It is the Vampires only shield against a lot of stuff, but you are unable to keep it up as you don't regen any magicka.
(Not gaining any Stamina isn't really the problem, as you can't block or run anyway.)

Making it a toggle, having it drain your magicka (like the Guard skill in the AVA skill tree) and giving the player Magicka regen while its active would give them a decent protection. They can't attack, but it would be a bit much to ask that privilege also.

The way CC immunity works ruins a lot of skills. Eclipse for the Templar skill line is a fine example of this. Eclipse is broken in many regards however, and the cc immunity problem (Its not even a CC what the heck?) is just one of many issues with that ability. I'd personally rather they sort out broken class skills than beef up vampires. That being said, I agree with your point that drain life should drain life regardless of cc or not. It should be an ATTACK first, cc secondarily. Many abilities should function this way but do not. I also agree with what was said earlier. Lightning and Cold damage really need more reason to exist, badly.

Fizzlewizzle

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Already wrote something about this in a topic of my own:
Suggestions for Vampires

I think that, Rather than giving them a complete overhaul with new extra stuff, they should rework some skills so they can actually work decently in the current version of the game.
Asking a whole list of new stuff to balance out their weaknesses will (most likely) never be considered. Atm they are understaffed because everyone is focusing on Consoles, leaving their (current) playerbase with very little staff to attend the problems. Giving them small stuff to work on might actually increase the chance of anything happening.

Creating new skills + new lore + animations + new quests is a whole lot more work then adding or removing some lines of code from a current skill, balancing it out to the current version of the game.

Back to topic:
Vampires started OP, then got nerfed so they would be balanced. After that there was another (few) updates which buffed a lot of stuff (Fighters guild skills, as well as flame damage in PvP) which put Vampires in a huge disadvantage.

I won't start about boosting Vampires back to what they were at the start of the game, but they should at least make it possible to set a foot inside Cyrodiil without instantly dying.

Their skills are all decent, but have a few major flaws with the current game content.

Drain essence Seems to count as a stun rather then an attack. with the high amount of CC that is being ditched out these days you can't use that skill (nor does it work on bosses). If it only works 1 per target, then make it so it can be used regardless of who your enemy is and if he has CC immunity (if they have that, then they shouldn't be stunned, but we should still deal damage and heal).

Mist form is a very good tool to counter the high Fire damage and all those Fighters guild skills.
It has a lot of positives, but it doesn't last long, and you don't gain any Magicka or Stamina while it's active.
(Not being able to attack or be healed is fair, as you are also immune to CC.)
It is the Vampires only shield against a lot of stuff, but you are unable to keep it up as you don't regen any magicka.
(Not gaining any Stamina isn't really the problem, as you can't block or run anyway.)

Making it a toggle, having it drain your magicka (like the Guard skill in the AVA skill tree) and giving the player Magicka regen while its active would give them a decent protection. They can't attack, but it would be a bit much to ask that privilege also.

The way CC immunity works ruins a lot of skills. Eclipse for the Templar skill line is a fine example of this. Eclipse is broken in many regards however, and the cc immunity problem (Its not even a CC what the heck?) is just one of many issues with that ability. I'd personally rather they sort out broken class skills than beef up vampires. That being said, I agree with your point that drain life should drain life regardless of cc or not. It should be an ATTACK first, cc secondarily. Many abilities should function this way but do not. I also agree with what was said earlier. Lightning and Cold damage really need more reason to exist, badly.

I'm a Templar myself, so i get what you mean.
I do agree with you that Lightning and Ice damage need some love. Lightning would seem like a good tool in a Sorcerers hands, But i don't know if they use it often.
Ice is just plainly ignored by everyone. Giving slowness to an enemy is fine and all, in most cases you don't really need that if you are fighting. Adding a small percentage of extra damage (10%, Minor Empower) for the next hit while using a Ice staff would greatly boost their DPS, as well as their usefulness.

Back to Vamp topic:
While using Puncturing sweep (the best offensive skill for Templars) it is impossible to use the Drain skill, as Puncturing gives away free CC immunity, which blocks the Drain skill.
In the past you could use a lot of decent combo's. Shieldbash (SnB skill) some to death, keeping them stunned... and using Drain when your stamina was almost empty. 100% save fights without any problems.

Chrlynsch

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I'm a Templar myself, so i get what you mean.
I do agree with you that Lightning and Ice damage need some love. Lightning would seem like a good tool in a Sorcerers hands, But i don't know if they use it often.
Ice is just plainly ignored by everyone. Giving slowness to an enemy is fine and all, in most cases you don't really need that if you are fighting. Adding a small percentage of extra damage (10%, Minor Empower) for the next hit while using a Ice staff would greatly boost their DPS, as well as their usefulness.

Back to Vamp topic:
While using Puncturing sweep (the best offensive skill for Templars) it is impossible to use the Drain skill, as Puncturing gives away free CC immunity, which blocks the Drain skill.
In the past you could use a lot of decent combo's. Shieldbash (SnB skill) some to death, keeping them stunned... and using Drain when your stamina was almost empty. 100% save fights without any problems.

Fire damage should do all of its damage to health
Ice should be 75% health 25% stam + other effect
Lightning should be 75% health 25% magic + other effect

Raash

Fairness and balance?! One would think such words were invented by the devil by judging the pleads for the poor poor and powerless vampires that hardly get to play the game since they are so weak to fire damage and are ugly to look at and whatnot...

MornaBaine

There have been so many good suggestions for making vampires viable without making them OP and also for just making them more enjoyable to play and making them "feel" more like vampires. Alas, none of these things have been implemented or even addressed by ZOS despite obvious popularity with the player base. Maybe...after console release?

Volkodav

Heck,I cant even get bit,let alone think about skills for Vamps. XD

MornaBaine

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Heck,I cant even get bit,let alone think about skills for Vamps. XD

Check out: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1833825#Comment_1833825