The next step... Vampires

Chrlynsch

Vampirism in eso is rather blah, and personally needs a little spicing up. How do we do this? By adding skills to the game! How many? At least 9.

All vampires gain one unique skill by choosing a clan, I am aware the strain of vampirism is different than those found in other ES games. What if we were allowed to "mutate" our bloodline to gain an attribute or ability in line with some of the clans found in other games.

Examples: would have a stamina/magica morph

Skyrim: Ice path; toggle ability lays ice at your feet does frost damage to enemies around you and sets them off balance. Allows you to walk on water

Cyrodiil: Known for their ability to blend in. Toggle skill allows you to appear human and take 20% when untoggled minor spell power or x gain to vampire abilities.

Valenwood: An execute ability gain health based on damage done.

Morrowind: a stealth ability much like NB or a toggle stealth that reduces detection on self untoggled and increases detection on others when toggled

Iliac Bay: teleportation

High Rock: Damage shield that increases regen when active

Hammerfell: Gain resistance to elemental attacks when toggled

Black Marsh: paralyze attack

Mashille

Vampires are fine at the moment.

azoriangaming

I agree vamps need a rework

TheShadowScout

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

dodgehopper_ESO

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

I don't want Vampires annoying to play, I just want to see them make an Inquisitor skill line that means something more than the Fighters Guild line does. I'm fine with Vampires having their toys, I just want PROPER vampire killer toys available that are mutually exclusive to vampirism.

Chrlynsch

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

You are correct with the annoying factor, feeding needs to matter to a vampire and should be more prevalent. .. I do feel like it should take longer to progress. Vampires should be powerful but also vulnerable, as they are now. That being said this is a elder scrolls game and becoming a vampire or werewolf is very much a real experience. werewolf is much better than it was but they do need quest lines and fleshed out more to make it a better experience.

retyler3_ESO

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

I agree. The guards should hunt them down as if they were wanted for stealing. It should be hard to play a vampire and werewolf.

Chrlynsch

Lots of things could change for vampire to make them more believable... Stage 4 should make you attacked by guards kill on sight. Same with werewolf:)

tplink3r1

Prothwata wrote: »

Lots of things could change for vampire to make them more believable... Stage 4 should make you attacked by guards kill on sight. Same with werewolf:)

+1

Raash

Vampires.. its never enough, is it?

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

I don't want Vampires annoying to play, I just want to see them make an Inquisitor skill line that means something more than the Fighters Guild line does. I'm fine with Vampires having their toys, I just want PROPER vampire killer toys available that are mutually exclusive to vampirism.

Very much this. Not everyone are interested in playing child litelature fairytale monsters.

Natjur

Balance.

All three options (vampire, werewolf and being human) should be balanced

So Vampire should gives some nice up and down
Werewolf the same
Human gives no ups but also no downs.

At the moment, they need another look. No one wants a vampire in end game fire based instances
Almost everyone is a werewolf just for the 15% passive stamina regen.
I have yet to group with a 'human' since V1

Lyzaaa

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

are u high? its fkin painful to play a vamp in cyro oh wait , ur a pve player i guess?

Chrlynsch

Lyzaaa wrote: »

are u high? its fkin painful to play a vamp in cyro oh wait , ur a pve player i guess?

it's true extra damage from players especially fire based dk's hurt, like it should. we need something extra though at our disposal to make up for fighters guild/fire damage.

Lyzaaa

Does anyone in this thread have the slightest clue on how squishy vampires are? Are u guys like insanely high on something asking for "useful" tools vs vampires?

- 9% weapon dmg and spell dmg increase vs vamps
- 40% increased damage from fire.. AKA ALL FIRE ATTACKS.
- fighter guilds skill lines.


theres currently more counter skills than the vampire skill line offers, hell its in like a 5989357:1 ratio atm.

Lyzaaa

Raash wrote: »

Vampires.. its never enough, is it?

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

I don't want Vampires annoying to play, I just want to see them make an Inquisitor skill line that means something more than the Fighters Guild line does. I'm fine with Vampires having their toys, I just want PROPER vampire killer toys available that are mutually exclusive to vampirism.

Very much this. Not everyone are interested in playing child litelature fairytale monsters.

No, but this thread is about for those who do want to be a vampire, or are. You already got plenty of tools vs vampires.

Athas24

Prothwata wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This isn't a world of darkness game.
Vampires certainly need no further goodies.

In fact, I personally would like to see them become more annoying to play... give people a feel for playing vampires as "borderline monsters" instead of "just regular characters with extra powers". Let them dodge the city guard keen on keeping the innocent citizens safe from those bloodsucking fiends!

But I guess that's me, for now they are okay as they are I guess...

You are correct with the annoying factor, feeding needs to matter to a vampire and should be more prevalent. .. I do feel like it should take longer to progress. Vampires should be powerful but also vulnerable, as they are now. That being said this is a elder scrolls game and becoming a vampire or werewolf is very much a real experience. werewolf is much better than it was but they do need quest lines and fleshed out more to make it a better experience.

Before I go anywhere with this. I have unaltered humanoids, werewolves (that i play in ww form not just for the dumb passive) and vampires. In fact my main toons are unaltered and a WW. Moving on, Feeding is already annoying for anyone wanting to keep their level down. You can't simply feed on sleeping people and you WILL get a bounty feeding on civilians which isn't very vampireesque imo.. They are supposed to be sneaky/stealthy/murderous etc. The changes to khajiit fur are also completely foolish because hair doesn't change color. I can however, understand argonian scales changing because its similar to skin. Stage 4 vampirism doesn't look any more vicious...just super pale and the eyes change *that part is cool.* The skills available are trite. There shoudl be more skills (they can be similar to other skills in game but more would create versitility and vampire specs would be different drastically). Mist is lame now, although the form looks neat. IMO you should take 0 damage in mist form but get no benefits except being untargetable. I mean.. your mist... swords don't hurt it. lol. I think it could be tweaked a lot to be more interesting. I'm also all for powerful negatives to get powerful benefits. I like the OP's concept though they will likely not add anything like that.

Sentinel

More variety in vampirism would be interesting. If possible, each of these could be presented through a questline in the regions directed. If you remember the vampire lords from skyrim, they would turn you to their bloodline even if you were a vampire already.

These questlines inducted from clans could have a prerequisite of vampirism (unlike Skyrim's; the vampirism is to earn their trust in part). Once the questline is complete, you're given a ceremony in which you gain new powers in addition to the vampirism you already have. Possibly add in more weaknesses to this mix as well.

All speculative/suggestive of course . I dont need any of this anytime soon, seeing as many other things are on the radar, but expanding vamp/werewolf bonuses and weaknesses would be a nice addition to the game.

MisterBigglesworth

I'll tell you how to fix vamps:
Bat Swarm needs a hard counter. I nominate Dawnbreaker.
If you're Bat Swarming and someone uses Dawnbreaker on you, your bats should fall, flaming from the sky, your Mist Form should be removed, and you should be a pile of dust on the ground.

Also, give Dawnbreaker users a golden glowing aura if they have it slotted on either bars, that should strike fear into the heart of any evil blood sucking fiends.

Only good vamp's a dead vamp.

PKMN12

vampirism has ALWAYS been rather blah, seems pretty lore friendly to me.

SeptimusDova

Bat Swarm.. If only some of the bats are hit by Flawless Dawnbreaker that when the Player reassembles they should have some pieces missing. You know, a hand , or a foot, no ears (Take that you knife eared elf vampire) Or maybe an arm or a leg or all of the aforementioned.

Theosis

I have nothing against vampires getting spanked in pvp.

I just have something against them getting hit so hard in pve.

WW get nothing but a bit of poison that is hardly ever used on them in pve. Meanwhile a vamp turns to dust in a warm room.

PvP vamp can do some serious woopin if they know how to play. They would need some sort of balance and that is understandable.

I would like a bit more variety though. This idea for different strains is a nice one.

Seri

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

I nominate Dawnbreaker.

+1, can confirm Dawnbreaker already hurts (even before the DoT although not sure about specifically during batswarm). As does Shooting Star for that matter (although that's reflectable, etc).

TheShadowScout

Generally I think when it comes to PvP, vampires are balanced enough. Sure, they hurt from fire more... but they also have some skills to balance, and can be rather nasty if played right. Although I am speaking about this from the reviecing end, haven't sent my vampy alt into cyrodil yet... and both my mains are plain dunmer, no vampyness of doggieness for them...

In PvE... yeah, they have it a bit tough, since everyone and their grandmother seems to like fire spells... but again, in my experience with my magica nightblade vampire alt, playing smart will get you through all the flamecaster mobs as well. And if anything should be changed here, it would be the mobs in the game, less flamecasters, more other attack types... but there certainly is no need to boost vampire power IMO!

What vexes me a little is how the game treats vampires as "just normal characters with special powers" - that IMO is not something vampires should be. I would much rather see the city guard keeping an eye out for "those monsters" and standing ready to end their unlife before they can suck the blood if innocent virgins, as we all know from numerous tavern tales is any vampires fervent desire...
So I'd like guards to attack vampires on sight, and I'd like vendors and quest NPCs refusing to speak and deal with vampires... and a "chance to recognize as vampire" depending on feeding stage. Say, 20% for stage 1, 40% for stage 2, 80% for stage 3 and automatic at stage 4.

And then... I'd love to see a toggleable skill that allows vampires to shift their appereance back one stage... meaning at stage 1, they could shift back to seeming human just like count ravenwatch does in the rivenspire questline, for a 0% chance of being recognized as vampire, and assorted penalties...
And then... some way to extend that stage 1 level. Maybe by gorging themselves? Say, each feeding after reaching stage 1 adds another 30 minutes of stage 1 time?

Also, some area where vampires can be themselves, no mortals allowed. Perhaps with some services too, so they don't have to go into town and chance the guards every time they want to drop some stuff in the bank or something? Though this area would be less convinient, as in, one per alliance, and not one per map.
The idea is to have vampires as "apart from human society" instead of intermixing with noone batting an eye...



Now, werewolves... those annoy me too. For being too effective, at this point, there is no reason for any stamina build not to go WW, they don't have to transform, but they still get all the stamina regen, and pretty much none of the drawbacks. If the stamina regen carries over into human form, some of the drawbacks should as well. I'm all for poison vulvnerability... even though it'd hurt the doggies in cyrodil, since just about every archer there spews poison arrows...

And naturally, the guard should have something to say about werewolves as well. Anyone transforming should be KoS, and if someone sees them transforming, it ought to be worth a hefty bounty that persists after they change back...

I also wish werewolves could not shift during "new moon" time in the game, and would be forced into WW form all night long during full moons, with all the drawbacks - guards considering them KoS, bounty if they shift while observed, vendors and quest NPCs calling the guards instead of talking to them, crafting stations and resource gathering being unavailable thainks to the paws... and they might even need to finish some "hunt and devour a worthy beast" quest or suffer some consequences (say, an debuff that lasts until next full moon for not having properly followed hircines dogma?)



And finally... monster hunters unlimited? I certainly would enjoy seeing them review the current fighters guild, and maybe work a bit on it... though personally I'd much prefer to see them split off the "monster hunters" into a seperate guild and redo the fighters guild with more general combat and bounty hunting (one and done, yes?) oriented skills/passives... then add some active skill a la "magelight" with a chance to break vampires disguise (mentioned above) or force werewolves to transform (like the one quest in glenumbra), and send them off to rid the world of all the monsters in human guise...

Milktray

Then give us Humes something like Vampire Hunters, special weapons/skills in that faction so we can make their life hell ;-)

Same for the puppies, something to pester them with, make it so you can choose one faction or the other, not both.

Sevalaricgirl

Prothwata wrote: »

Lots of things could change for vampire to make them more believable... Stage 4 should make you attacked by guards kill on sight. Same with werewolf:)

That would not work with guards invulnerable. If you can't kill guards, but they can kill you on sight, it's not fair to the player.

TheShadowScout

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

That would not work with guards invulnerable. If you can't kill guards, but they can kill you on sight, it's not fair to the player.

So? Habitual thieves would say the same...

...the point is, stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves -should- be KoS by the guard, just like any mass murderer, just for "being monsters".

And it would fall to the player to avoid letting the guards see their monster-ness... take care not to go furry within their sight, take care not to let them notice you are a bloodsucking fiend through getting too hungry (thirsty?), etc. It should be basic part of playing werewolves or vampires.

htoncic

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

That would not work with guards invulnerable. If you can't kill guards, but they can kill you on sight, it's not fair to the player.

So? Habitual thieves would say the same...

...the point is, stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves -should- be KoS by the guard, just like any mass murderer, just for "being monsters".

And it would fall to the player to avoid letting the guards see their monster-ness... take care not to go furry within their sight, take care not to let them notice you are a bloodsucking fiend through getting too hungry (thirsty?), etc. It should be basic part of playing werewolves or vampires.

And can you explain to the class how stage 4 vamps, that is vamps that don't feed on humans, are mass murderers? In this context, wouldn't it make far more sense for stage 1 vamps to be on the blacklist, since they regularly feed? And how did we get to murder, exactly? Last time I checked, after a vampire feeds, the victim is left very much alive. And understandably angry.

Finally, what exactly would be the point of all this? Other than a major inconvenience to the player? Why should these two skill lines, specifically, be treated differently from all the others? If we do this, don't you think it would be fair to introduce severe penalties to all the optional skill lines? Like say, have a number of towns where members of Mages Guild are killed on sight because the inhabitants are prejudiced against magic. I think that would be a fine way to ruin this game.

Merlin13KAGL

You are missing both Fear and Charm - two of the simplest yet potentially most powerful aspects of most Vampirism since it first began. Should be some specific summons, as well. (Just like WW's should be able to call standard wolves).

Athas24

htoncic wrote: »

And can you explain to the class how stage 4 vamps, that is vamps that don't feed on humans, are mass murderers? In this context, wouldn't it make far more sense for stage 1 vamps to be on the blacklist, since they regularly feed? And how did we get to murder, exactly? Last time I checked, after a vampire feeds, the victim is left very much alive. And understandably angry.

Finally, what exactly would be the point of all this? Other than a major inconvenience to the player? Why should these two skill lines, specifically, be treated differently from all the others? If we do this, don't you think it would be fair to introduce severe penalties to all the optional skill lines? Like say, have a number of towns where members of Mages Guild are killed on sight because the inhabitants are prejudiced against magic. I think that would be a fine way to ruin this game.

I completely agree with this. Every time there are WW/Vampire discussions there seem to be people who just either hate the concept or have some weird sense of rp justice they need to pour out onto the forums to make both options even less desirable than they are now (and im not talking about the playboys who just take the WW to stay in human form all day, because really there is no downside to that as of now). If guards KOS vampires at stage 4 then there needs to be more viable ways to feed without getting caught. Currently there aren't any. you feed, the person knows you fed on them, you get a bounty. Best case scenario they are legit enemies that find out and you kill them without a bounty.

TheShadowScout

htoncic wrote: »

And can you explain to the class how stage 4 vamps, that is vamps that don't feed on humans, are mass murderers? In this context, wouldn't it make far more sense for stage 1 vamps to be on the blacklist, since they regularly feed? And how did we get to murder, exactly? Last time I checked, after a vampire feeds, the victim is left very much alive. And understandably angry.

I am more referring to how vampires would look in the eyes of the guard. hence the "tavern tales" comment in the earlier post...
Even if a vampire sustained themselves on rats all nights long, do you really think people would just nod and say "oh, that's allright, this one is one of the decent monsters?" Remembering a couple quests in rivenspire, auridion, grahtwood and eastmarch, vampires pretty much are seen as habitual mass murderers by the general populance, no matter what any individual vampire does. Even count ravenwatch who is sort of protected by the favor of the high king has to take a bit of care not to show his true nature to everyone, as those who played the rivenspire story will recall...

htoncic wrote: »

Finally, what exactly would be the point of all this? Other than a major inconvenience to the player? Why should these two skill lines, specifically, be treated differently from all the others? If we do this, don't you think it would be fair to introduce severe penalties to all the optional skill lines? Like say, have a number of towns where members of Mages Guild are killed on sight because the inhabitants are prejudiced against magic. I think that would be a fine way to ruin this game.

And that's exactly the problem I dislike - some people considering becoming vampires or werewolves "just another skill line".
Which they just should't be. I mean, some people who pay no attention to the quest stories may not have noticed, but vampires and werewolves -are- monsters in the eyes of the common people of tamriel... (and in 90% of the vampire stories, for that matter...) And IMO, playing one should reflect that.

Athas24 wrote: »

If guards KOS vampires at stage 4 then there needs to be more viable ways to feed without getting caught. Currently there aren't any. you feed, the person knows you fed on them, you get a bounty. Best case scenario they are legit enemies that find out and you kill them without a bounty.

Now here we have a point I'd agree with. Yes, more and better ways to feed your vampire character would be a good thing to add. Like, say, voluntary feeding options? Maybe from some special NPCs in some "vampire refugee" for a small fee? (I doubt the forum mods would like me mentioning how most vampire stories call them ) Or perhaps even allow players a option to feed their vampire friends? (as long as its done in a way that cannot be used to annoy strangers... personally I'd like to see an option to try it, and it the recipient accepts then the vampire gets to feed... but if the recipient declines, the vampire gets a bounty as if they had attacked... which should ensure it is kept between friends, and not risked with strangers... Something along those lines...)

Though generally its easy enough to feed your vampires I suppose. Find a dwelve full of humanoid enemies somewhere, sneak up, suck 'em dry... that was the basis of my idea to let feedings stack for stage-1. Drink a couple dozend bandits, add up some hours of stage-1 time to have less guard-worry...

BloodStorm

Poison Mist needs a change.Pretty sure it will. A bloodfiend thrall pet would be fun. Poision mist definitely needs a rework into something else. Sanguine Mist sounds good to me maybe a skill good for healers.Lots of potential.