Question to any Dev :Why is Magicka Sorc damage so high when facing enemies with no nirn equipment?

Septimus_Magna · May 2015

Germtrocity wrote: »

Some of the biggest changes that need to be made before anything else gets changed is:
Dual wield magicka damage buff (anyone saying this is working as intended is fooling themselves)
Infinite sustain builds
Nirnhoned armor
Extremely high damage scaling / Low TTK

Once all of those things get changed, then class mechanics can start to be touched and tweaked, but to be perfectly honest I don't even think Zeni cares about the state of PvP at all.

ZOS stated that the DW spell damage bonus IS working as intended, they say you have to be closer to the enemy with DW and therefor you're at greater risk, I think they forgot all the ranged class, guild and alliance war abilities...

Erock25 · May 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

AngersRevenge wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

It's not the good players crying about sorcs.

check out SypherPK stream yesterday on Twitch. He is a very good player. And, he will say sorcs are OP. he doesn't say nerf a sorc but does realize they are OP.

It is funny how only the people who do not have a Sorc are the ones mentioning that they are OP.

Its funny how its only the Sorcs who are the ones saying they're not OP

rofl.

Well I know that on these forums, @Rylana in particular has multiple v14 classes and everything I've read from him is that he thinks Sorcs are far from OP. Other than that, I have my own experience with multiple vr14s and the experience of other people I know in game who have multiple v14s.

olsborg · May 2015

Sorc schmorc. I get hit with surprise attak all the time for 8-11k, and that *** is spammable and atm undodgeable. Not to mention lethal arrows that hit for around 15k. Im a pretty dmg specced sorc and I hit ppl averagely for around 8-12k with my 1.5 second hardcasted cf.

Lava_Croft · May 2015

The ridiculous Spell Damage buff that forces any caster to wield melee weapons in order to maximize his Spell Damage is not going to change. This was mentioned in the last episode of ESO Live.

Mayrael · May 2015

The best part of that kind of threads is that those who want to nerf for sorcs are just giving examples of unblocked crit CF or smth like this and they think thats all is needed to nerf sorc. And when someones gives them some arguments against their statment, they seem to be blind and ignore it.
1. What about all that insane stamina skills crits? Are they ok?
2. Why you dont use nirnhoned trait and put some points in CP constelations that are reducing damage from spells?
3. So if the spell damage reduction goes on pair with armor, why we dont have traits and CP constelations to reduce phisical damage?
4. U want to nerf shield stacking, u want to nerf bolt escape, u want to nerf crystal frags. So after all of this would be applied how sorc could be viable in pvp?
5. If we are forced to use melee weapons we want to have melee magic skills that cant be reflected or roll dodged, just like u have stamina ranged skills and stamina heals.

Joy_Division · May 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

There are too many issues with all the classes in the current state of the game to focus on any one thing in particular.
If sorcs got nerfed they would be possibly the weakest class (again?).
We have no meaningful CCs whatsoever, and our damage is mediocre when compared to stamina damage output.

If sorcerers had a CC as powerful as fear, then I would be completely understanding of everyone crying for nerfs, but they don't - in fact, sorcerers have some of the worst, if not the worst, CC options in the game. Our greatest duration knockdown is only a little over 2 seconds, and easily avoidable.

Most of our direct damage is almost completely able to be mitigated or ignored depending on your class.

Some of the biggest changes that need to be made before anything else gets changed is:
Dual wield magicka damage buff (anyone saying this is working as intended is fooling themselves)
Infinite sustain builds
Nirnhoned armor
Extremely high damage scaling / Low TTK

Once all of those things get changed, then class mechanics can start to be touched and tweaked, but to be perfectly honest I don't even think Zeni cares about the state of PvP at all.

Well I think Sorc cc is far better than Templar's.

I remember them saying in one of the latest ESO Live episodes that melee weapons had higher spell damage as a risk vs reward concept... because you need to be close to the target... /facepalm

I realize Templar's give out cc immunity like it's free candy bc/ of Jabs and Eclipse, but how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue better than a templar who can use a non-cast time projectile, a charge, or a range AOE?

AngersRevenge · May 2015

You guys are missing the point of my statement.

Should I have blocked, yes. Did I block, no. I was specifically geared to resist magicka damage with full stats into health and still 2 shotted by magicka damage.

I'm not saying they are OP but with their high burst and extreme mobility combined with a shield that is more than there health (exagerating). They are indeed very powerful compared to a DK or Temp. Noone should be 2 shotted when they have very high mitigation against the thing they are being 2 shotted with.

Everything is OP in 1.6 with the no soft cap. Sorcs just being a little more then the rest. No soft cap allows for extreme damage compared to mitigation. The NB is OP with Ambush, Invis, and Fear. I main a NB. We all know that the classes aren't exactly balanced in PvP.

Snit · May 2015

AngersRevenge wrote: »

You guys are missing the point of my statement.

Should I have blocked, yes. Did I block, no.

The 'point' of PvP at the high end is this: Use Active Defenses or (probably) Die Quickly.

You can dodge, block, toss up a shield (e.g., Annulment) or just use line of sight properly. If, however, you rely on your gear alone to save you, bad things will happen at times. TESO PvP is as much about player skill as it is avatar equipment.

Francescolg · May 2015

AngersRevenge wrote: »

I'm not saying they are OP but with their high burst and extreme mobility combined with a shield that is more than there health (exagerating).

You are not exagerating at all! Around ~30k magicka/1500 spell dmg, the shield is up to 10k + 30%, so ~13k (I know the numbers are just a little bit lower). Nonetheless, 13k is pretty often MORE than the sorcerer's health (~12k), if they go full magicka/spell dmg.
Apparently, not enough guys have played a sorc as their twink! You absolutely should level a sorcerer, or even play it as a healer, to fully understand what is being talked about. I'll not elaborate all single passives, etc.
I just wanted to point out that you are not exagerating at all and, in many cases, the sorcerers shield value is higher than his basic life (no pvp boni, etc. the like, included)

Francescolg · May 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

I realize Templar's give out cc immunity like it's free candy bc/ of Jabs and Eclipse, but how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue better than a templar who can use a non-cast time projectile, a charge, or a range AOE?

Templar's have 2 instant projectile/DD spells and their damage is WAY less than Crystal Fragment's damage. The Templar's only comparable spell to Crystal Fragments is Dark Flare, which has the same cast time as CF and a longer travelling time (!). You describe CF in an exagerating, unnecessary way, maybe to make it look worse than it really is! Comparing it to any of the Templar's spells makes no sense for me, as CF is clearly stronger, especially in how it works together with nearly everything (proc chance).

The ranged GTAE of the templar, instead, is comparable to a 'very similar' sorcerer GTAE. Why don't you mention Lightning Splash (and morphs)? Do you really think the Templar's GTAE is better because of a single-player stun? It has a travelling time like 2 sec.

The 35% proc chance of CF is far from being a little probability and, imo it's outstanding bacause it works combined with as good as every spell a sorcerer uses in PvP: absorb shield, healing, porting, buffing, etc. So this spell is nearly up most of the times for me, as I port a lot and heal a lot in battles, and I spam my absorb shield a lot, and even a "very cheap" Heal over Time (Rapid Regeneration) can proc my 15k DD instant spell. So, nearly everything I do gives me Crystal Fragments. The Templar has nothing nearly comparable.

Lastly, if you really think a magicka-based charge is so strong, then I don't know what to say. Pressing my Bolt of Lightning-button two consecutive times is much easier for me and works (most of the times), while the Templar class charge is one of the most bugged spells ever seen in this game... ;-)

Ezareth · May 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

AngersRevenge wrote: »

I'm not saying they are OP but with their high burst and extreme mobility combined with a shield that is more than there health (exagerating).

You are not exagerating at all! Around ~30k magicka/1500 spell dmg, the shield is up to 10k + 30%, so ~13k (I know the numbers are just a little bit lower). Nonetheless, 13k is pretty often MORE than the sorcerer's health (~12k), if they go full magicka/spell dmg.
Apparently, not enough guys have played a sorc as their twink! You absolutely should level a sorcerer, or even play it as a healer, to fully understand what is being talked about. I'll not elaborate all single passives, etc.
I just wanted to point out that you are not exagerating at all and, in many cases, the sorcerers shield value is higher than his basic life (no pvp boni, etc. the like, included)

Not true.

The bare minimum possible HP is somewhere in the neighborhood of 16K-17K in Cyrodiil with zero into health at VR14.

My VR14 sorc with something in the neighborhood of 70 CPs into the Bastion passive and over 28K magicka is just over 11K.

Ezareth · May 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I realize Templar's give out cc immunity like it's free candy bc/ of Jabs and Eclipse, but how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue better than a templar who can use a non-cast time projectile, a charge, or a range AOE?

Templar's have 2 (instant) projectile spells but if you count the "travelling time" they are not really instants and real templar players now this :-) beside, the damage of this two spells is less then half the damage Crystal Fragments do! (Projectile + DoT, CC-projectile).
Templar's only comparable spell to Crystal Fragments, that is Dark Flare, which has the same cast time as CF and a longer travelling time (!). You describe CF in an exagerating, unnecessary way, to make it look worse than it really is! Compare it to the Templar's spell and you will instantly find out which of both spells is the better one. Btw, comparing the "low damage" instant spells of the Templar (Vampire's Bane/Javelin) to CF makes no sense for me.

The ranged AoE of the templar, instead, is comparable to a 'very similar' sorcerer ranged GTAE. Why don't you mention lightning splash (and morphs)? Do you know this spell? Do you really think the Templar's GTAE is better because of a single-player stun? It is better because it offers a stamina regen with the synergy but this is another point..

So to answer your, in my opinion, not reasonable question... "how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue" etc.. :
First of all, the 35% proc chance is FAR from being a litlle chance and OUSTANDING, so it works combined with as good as every fu..ing spell, heal, porting, buffing, etc. So this spell is up nearly most of the times for me, as I port a lot and heal a lot in battles, and I buff a lot, and even a "very cheap" Heal over Time (HoT as rapid regeneration) can proc it..

Second, it can stun. So, all in all I have the best and most potent magicka, single target, DD spell that can proc with 'whatever' I do (if you put the right spells/skills/heals/etc on your bars) and you WILL not find any comparable magicka templar spell, not one that works combined with nearly every (instant) spell/skill you use, which is what makes it so strong. Templars even don't have any passives/skills/etc. that proc "something of great value" when healing but this is another point and my text is already too long.

More garbage.

Crystal fragments *is* a slow moving projectile and easily avoidable. If the sorcs hands are glowing and you're close to him you better be 'rolling. If he his far away you're fine because you have plenty of time to roll when he releases the fragment proc.

Unlike Invasion/crit charge which does it's damage up front (not when you hit). I barely rely on crystal fragments as a staple of damage unless I'm killing bads because anyone who knows how to PvP avoids it. The only time I have a high chance of landing a hit is if I'm casting on a DK with wings up and I put my defensive posture on right before the reflect hits me. Even then they usually still just dodge roll it or are holding block (which reduces the damage by 70%+)

Cinbri · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Crystal fragments *is* a slow moving projectile and easily avoidable. If the sorcs hands are glowing and you're close to him you better be 'rolling. If he his far away you're fine because you have plenty of time to roll when he releases the fragment proc.

Shouldn't even read sorc thread. Same bullsh*t again and again. Seems sorcs repeated lie so many times that started believe in it by themselves?

k2blader · May 2015

Sypher wrote: »

My point of view on the topic is Magicka Based Sorcerers and Stamina Based Nightblades are the two strongest solo/small group specs in the game. I've played Stamina Nightblade extensively and my partner has played her sorc extensively.

The reason behind my opinion can be drawn from the similarities between the two specs:

Magicka Sorcs and Stamina Nightblades:
- High Mobility
- High Survivability
- High Damage output

Of course this is all assuming the Nightblade/Sorc are played exceptionally well. In 1v1 showdown, the Sorc is set up to win against the nightblade assuming the Nightblade and Sorc play on an equal footing, but in 1vX the stamina Nightblade has a slight edge over the sorc, so they balance out to be the top two play styles for small group and solo pvp.

Thanks for the thoughts! Also for clarifying the "played exceptionally well" part. I mean, call me old-fashioned but I still think more skill will beat less skill almost every time.

I didn't know it at the time I rolled a sorc but I would agree with you today a well built sorc is very strong for solo/small group play. Tho' I imagine I'd be having as much fun on my NB if she were my main.

Whatever the case, glad the term "OP" never entered the commentary. That gets me a tad riled. :-)

Ezareth · May 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Crystal fragments *is* a slow moving projectile and easily avoidable. If the sorcs hands are glowing and you're close to him you better be 'rolling. If he his far away you're fine because you have plenty of time to roll when he releases the fragment proc.

Shouldn't even read sorc thread. Same bullsh*t again and again. Seems sorcs repeated lie so many times that started believe in it by themselves?

Only other explanation is you're bad.

Playing on my nightblade I'm fighting sorcs all the time. The only way I'm getting hit by frags is random luck (happened to catch me during the dodge roll vulnerability split second), if I'm already stunned by another player etc, or if it hits me in the back of the head when I can't see the sorc.

How is that a lie? Crystal fragments is not the slowest projectile but it has an easily trackable animation that anyone short of a total mouth breather could avoid.

Seriously when I fight good players, crystal fragments is my least effective ability. This is just too rich....

k2blader · May 2015

AngersRevenge wrote: »

You guys are missing the point of my statement.

Should I have blocked, yes. Did I block, no. I was specifically geared to resist magicka damage with full stats into health and still 2 shotted by magicka damage.

Dunno if you said earlier, but what is your total (buffed) health if all your stats are in health? Sounds weird you'd be 2-shotted given that and you're geared to resist magic damage. Just curious because I've never been 2-shot by sorc skills. I'm VR10, spell-damage build, in green/blue gear (no nirn), I did put as many points I could into magic damage resist but it's probably still below average. Just spelling that out because it's not like I'm geared or especially well set up, and I can't spam my defensive sorc spells. When I'm 2-shot it's almost always from arrows.

and I'm not saying they are OP but with their high burst and extreme mobility combined with a shield that is more than there health (exagerating). They are indeed very powerful compared to a DK or Temp. Noone should be 2 shotted when they have very high mitigation against the thing they are being 2 shotted with.

I think we agree no one should be 2-shotted by any combo of skills-- that's just lame. My buffed health sits between 20-23k depending on the campaign, the highest I've gotten my shields (hardened and healing) is around 12k. And that's temporary-- again it's not like I can spam it.

Everything is OP in 1.6 with the no soft cap. Sorcs just being a little more then the rest. No soft cap allows for extreme damage compared to mitigation. The NB is OP with Ambush, Invis, and Fear. I main a NB. We all know that the classes aren't exactly balanced in PvP.

Damage is too high respective to health, but I wouldn't agree any class is OP. I still think you have misconceptions about the sorc class. It's kind of the typical complaints: "a sorc 2-shot me," "extreme mobility," "shield more than health," which have been explained/refuted/shown how to mitigate by much-much better players than, me ad nauseam.

Rylana · May 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

AngersRevenge wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

It's not the good players crying about sorcs.

check out SypherPK stream yesterday on Twitch. He is a very good player. And, he will say sorcs are OP. he doesn't say nerf a sorc but does realize they are OP.

It is funny how only the people who do not have a Sorc are the ones mentioning that they are OP.

Its funny how its only the Sorcs who are the ones saying they're not OP

rofl.

Well I know that on these forums, @Rylana in particular has multiple v14 classes and everything I've read from him is that he thinks Sorcs are far from OP. Other than that, I have my own experience with multiple vr14s and the experience of other people I know in game who have multiple v14s.

Sorcs are strong, no doubt. But Sorcs have very very big weaknesses. You can be high damage and sustain and seem like youre OP, but a good player with the right counterbuild is going to turn you into a corpse pretty fast.

All the shields and blink in the world are no real counter to a really strong 2 hander or bow spec. Ive been literally two shot through shields with no chance to really react by some of those guys, and im one of those sorcs with 32k+ magicka and 2600+ spell damage with the 15k shields or more. Im not immortal by any means. (maul or mace using stamina builds hurt, bad)

Farorin · May 2015

My recent experiances are myself with a group of 3-6 players fighting a single sorc, and getting nowhere. Endless kiting with bolt, and insane damage mitigation, I used the soul magic ultimate at the same time as my friend on this particular sorc, while the other members were DPSing, the full channel went through, and the sorcs health barely moved, we only just got through the damage shields. The whole while, the sorc was still managing to deal damage to us.

To be fair, a similar thing happened the other day (though nowhere near as bad, or as hard) with a nightblade, and DKs are always stupid hard to kill. So I think some general re balancing is in order rather than nerf bat.

I think rather than nerfing powerful abilities, introducing counter abilities, strategies or options, would be better.

ToRelax · May 2015

Farorin wrote: »

My recent experiances are myself with a group of 3-6 players fighting a single sorc, and getting nowhere. Endless kiting with bolt, and insane damage mitigation, I used the soul magic ultimate at the same time as my friend on this particular sorc, while the other members were DPSing, the full channel went through, and the sorcs health barely moved, we only just got through the damage shields. The whole while, the sorc was still managing to deal damage to us.

To be fair, a similar thing happened the other day (though nowhere near as bad, or as hard) with a nightblade, and DKs are always stupid hard to kill. So I think some general re balancing is in order rather than nerf bat.

I think rather than nerfing powerful abilities, introducing counter abilities, strategies or options, would be better.

With all due respect, how can you ask for counters or rebalancing because you fail to kill a single player with a group?
You already wrote that it's not just Sorcs who can be very hard to kill, so wouldn't the right approach be to try to understand what your opponents do and learn from it?

Joy_Division · May 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I realize Templar's give out cc immunity like it's free candy bc/ of Jabs and Eclipse, but how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue better than a templar who can use a non-cast time projectile, a charge, or a range AOE?

Templar's have 2 instant projectile/DD spells and their damage is WAY less than Crystal Fragment's damage. The Templar's only comparable spell to Crystal Fragments is Dark Flare, which has the same cast time as CF and a longer travelling time (!). You describe CF in an exagerating, unnecessary way, maybe to make it look worse than it really is! Comparing it to any of the Templar's spells makes no sense for me, as CF is clearly stronger, especially in how it works together with nearly everything (proc chance).

The ranged GTAE of the templar, instead, is comparable to a 'very similar' sorcerer GTAE. Why don't you mention Lightning Splash (and morphs)? Do you really think the Templar's GTAE is better because of a single-player stun? It has a travelling time like 2 sec.

The 35% proc chance of CF is far from being a little probability and, imo it's outstanding bacause it works combined with as good as every spell a sorcerer uses in PvP: absorb shield, healing, porting, buffing, etc. So this spell is nearly up most of the times for me, as I port a lot and heal a lot in battles, and I spam my absorb shield a lot, and even a "very cheap" Heal over Time (Rapid Regeneration) can proc my 15k DD instant spell. So, nearly everything I do gives me Crystal Fragments. The Templar has nothing nearly comparable.

Lastly, if you really think a magicka-based charge is so strong, then I don't know what to say. Pressing my Bolt of Lightning-button two consecutive times is much easier for me and works (most of the times), while the Templar class charge is one of the most bugged spells ever seen in this game... ;-)

And we got someone with an agenda.

The post I was replying to was about CC. Not damage or effectiveness. You are telling me that crystal Frags is a good spell. Thanks for the update. Was kind of on the fence with that one, you know...

Going back to my comment about CC, if you are relying on an instant proc on a slow moving projectile, there is nothing more that needs to be said about the sorc's limitations when it comes to CC. The best sorc CC spell is streak because of its reliability and AOE capability, which is unfortunate for them as the other morph for them is really good and the low time on the stun means conserving your stamina and not breaking it is a viable option many times.

And yes, I do think Blazing Spear is better than lightning splash because the Templar's skill stuns whereas the sorc skills does nothing but a little damage over time.

Mayrael · May 2015

Again ignored... Yay pizza, we all love pizza, pizza doesnt need to be nerfed

But sorcs are not like a pizza, ppl dont like the sorcs bc they want to nerf them to have easy kills. But i have to disapoint you. If sorc will be nerfed even more, no one will play them and there will be just NB/DK cyrodill with slight addition of templars and you will have to L2P anyway bc someone that can kill you now while playing a sorc,will kill you even easier while playing a NB or DK.

Zsymon · May 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Hello OP.

As a sorc on one of my V14s, I would like to relay to you a stunning factoid

Out of 10 casts of crystal frags

4 were dodged
3 were blocked
2 hit me back in the face
1 hit a guy for 16k

Later.

1 hit OP for 16k*

And thus this thread was formed.

and that is less and less happening any more - 2 nirn pieces and your entire resi pierce is compensated every additional piece pushes sorcs (magica user dmg in general) into the wet noodle area...

The maximum resistance is always 50%, say that dude had 0% resistance (he had more), that CF would have still hit for 8K if he had massive spell resistance, which is not a wet noodle for an instant cast 33m range 2 second CC, on 15-20K health bars. Half your health gone from a large range and being stunned for two seconds, is not a wet noodle.

Once they change nirnhoned, there will be a lot more complaining about Sorcs having such insane burst as well as defense at their fingertips. At least stamina builds have to come close, they have to abandon at least the range aspect, since Sorc burst even with nirnhoned is far higher than bow attacks.

Zsymon · May 2015

The huge increase to damage alongside the massive nerf to max health, was a major mistake. They should have done one or the other, not both. Now only two or three builds (not classes) total can survive more than a few seconds in PvP, and health as a stat has become meaningless.

ToRelax · May 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Hello OP.

As a sorc on one of my V14s, I would like to relay to you a stunning factoid

Out of 10 casts of crystal frags

4 were dodged
3 were blocked
2 hit me back in the face
1 hit a guy for 16k

Later.

1 hit OP for 16k*

And thus this thread was formed.

and that is less and less happening any more - 2 nirn pieces and your entire resi pierce is compensated every additional piece pushes sorcs (magica user dmg in general) into the wet noodle area...

The maximum resistance is always 50%, say that dude had 0% resistance (he had more), that CF would have still hit for 8K if he had massive spell resistance, which is not a wet noodle for an instant cast 33m range 2 second CC, on 15-20K health bars. Half your health gone from a large range and being stunned for two seconds, is not a wet noodle.

Those large hits 1.) require a glass cannon setup and 2.) can not only be reduced with actives defenses and spell resistance, but reduced magic and critical damage.

Besides that, don't mess with the spell penetration system. Forming arguments without thoroughly testing in the same version of the game is rarely a good idea, sadly.

Zsymon · May 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Those large hits 1.) require a glass cannon setup and 2.) can not only be reduced with actives defenses and spell resistance, but reduced magic and critical damage.

Besides that, don't mess with the spell penetration system. Forming arguments without thoroughly testing in the same version of the game is rarely a good idea, sadly.

For a sorc, glass cannon and high survivability, are the same thing, they require the same resource. There is no such thing as glass cannon Sorcerers.

ToRelax · May 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Those large hits 1.) require a glass cannon setup and 2.) can not only be reduced with actives defenses and spell resistance, but reduced magic and critical damage.

Besides that, don't mess with the spell penetration system. Forming arguments without thoroughly testing in the same version of the game is rarely a good idea, sadly.

For a sorc, glass cannon and high survivability, are the same thing, they require the same resource. There is no such thing as glass cannon Sorcerers.

How does Spell Damage increase your survivability? Greater Healing Ward or what.

Rylana · May 2015

Farorin wrote: »

My recent experiances are myself with a group of 3-6 players fighting a single sorc, and getting nowhere. Endless kiting with bolt, and insane damage mitigation, I used the soul magic ultimate at the same time as my friend on this particular sorc, while the other members were DPSing, the full channel went through, and the sorcs health barely moved, we only just got through the damage shields. The whole while, the sorc was still managing to deal damage to us.

To be fair, a similar thing happened the other day (though nowhere near as bad, or as hard) with a nightblade, and DKs are always stupid hard to kill. So I think some general re balancing is in order rather than nerf bat.

I think rather than nerfing powerful abilities, introducing counter abilities, strategies or options, would be better.

The moment you posted that you used soul assault, I know exactly why you failed.

None of your group members were spikers, youre trying to do high pressure DPS, which while it works on other classes, will not work on me or any other stacking sorc.

Why? Because thats not the correct counter. You need to look past the total damage the channel does and look at how much each tick does, and then realize for the few seconds how much of the shield youre hitting each pulse. Each pulse is another keystroke or two for the sorc.

You need to think speed here. You need to put 30k or so damage on the sorc in less than 2 seconds to reliably kill him, otherwise you might do a million damage over the next two minutes and never move his health a single time.

This also applies to the Radiant Oppression templar noobs that try to burn me down with spaghetti. Its pulse based, therefore I can just keep refreshing my ward and pretty much ignore them entirely while im fragging and mining the guy next to them.

The sooner people realize that burst is the Sorc's bane, the better they will understand how things work. By burst I mean use an attack that does 10k+ damage each second and then spam it on the sorc = dead sorc. High instant damage abilities are the key.

Examples include, but are not limited to (and will increase as nirn gets nerfed): Wrecking Blow, almost any weapon damage/stamina based heavy attack, Lethal Arrow/Focused Aim, Flying Blade, any class skills/ultimates that exceed 7k damage per use such as ambush, soul harvest, concealed weapon from stealth, etc.

If youre trying to slow burn a sorc with a bunch of tiny attacks or DoTs, then you deserve to fail honestly.

The hard counter to a shield stack sorc in a nutshell, for brevity...

Knock him down and then wrecking blow him twice (or some other combo that will get on top of him and lay down 30k PHYSICAL damage in 2 button pushes). gg.

Tankqull · May 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

There are too many issues with all the classes in the current state of the game to focus on any one thing in particular.
If sorcs got nerfed they would be possibly the weakest class (again?).
We have no meaningful CCs whatsoever, and our damage is mediocre when compared to stamina damage output.

If sorcerers had a CC as powerful as fear, then I would be completely understanding of everyone crying for nerfs, but they don't - in fact, sorcerers have some of the worst, if not the worst, CC options in the game. Our greatest duration knockdown is only a little over 2 seconds, and easily avoidable.

Most of our direct damage is almost completely able to be mitigated or ignored depending on your class.

Some of the biggest changes that need to be made before anything else gets changed is:
Dual wield magicka damage buff (anyone saying this is working as intended is fooling themselves)
Infinite sustain builds
Nirnhoned armor
Extremely high damage scaling / Low TTK

Once all of those things get changed, then class mechanics can start to be touched and tweaked, but to be perfectly honest I don't even think Zeni cares about the state of PvP at all.

Well I think Sorc cc is far better than Templar's.

I remember them saying in one of the latest ESO Live episodes that melee weapons had higher spell damage as a risk vs reward concept... because you need to be close to the target... /facepalm

I realize Templar's give out cc immunity like it's free candy bc/ of Jabs and Eclipse, but how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue better than a templar who can use a non-cast time projectile, a charge, or a range AOE?

well to be honest the stun on jabs needs to be erased - as i already mentioned my prefered substitution would be a stacking 1sec 15%snare on each dmg tick of it.
and the times of eclipse beeing a free immunity are gone since 2.0 breaking eclips eats a freaking hughe amount of stamina (7k+) and has an even longer breaking animation than fear supressing any action for quite some time.

ToRelax · May 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

There are too many issues with all the classes in the current state of the game to focus on any one thing in particular.
If sorcs got nerfed they would be possibly the weakest class (again?).
We have no meaningful CCs whatsoever, and our damage is mediocre when compared to stamina damage output.

If sorcerers had a CC as powerful as fear, then I would be completely understanding of everyone crying for nerfs, but they don't - in fact, sorcerers have some of the worst, if not the worst, CC options in the game. Our greatest duration knockdown is only a little over 2 seconds, and easily avoidable.

Most of our direct damage is almost completely able to be mitigated or ignored depending on your class.

Some of the biggest changes that need to be made before anything else gets changed is:
Dual wield magicka damage buff (anyone saying this is working as intended is fooling themselves)
Infinite sustain builds
Nirnhoned armor
Extremely high damage scaling / Low TTK

Once all of those things get changed, then class mechanics can start to be touched and tweaked, but to be perfectly honest I don't even think Zeni cares about the state of PvP at all.

Well I think Sorc cc is far better than Templar's.

I remember them saying in one of the latest ESO Live episodes that melee weapons had higher spell damage as a risk vs reward concept... because you need to be close to the target... /facepalm

I realize Templar's give out cc immunity like it's free candy bc/ of Jabs and Eclipse, but how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue better than a templar who can use a non-cast time projectile, a charge, or a range AOE?

well to be honest the stun on jabs needs to be erased - as i already mentioned my prefered substitution would be a stacking 1sec 15%snare on each dmg tick of it.
and the times of eclipse beeing a free immunity are gone since 2.0 breaking eclips eats a freaking hughe amount of stamina (7k+) and has an even longer breaking animation than fear supressing any action for quite some time.

Ah, Eclipse is and always was very annoying and I can't kill a decent Templar using that on me constantly.
But the fact that I can still move around, use all my defensive moves and cc, as well as Detonation + Curse, allows me to break it whenever I want, so that I have the cc immunity when I actually need it.

Tankqull · May 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

There are too many issues with all the classes in the current state of the game to focus on any one thing in particular.
If sorcs got nerfed they would be possibly the weakest class (again?).
We have no meaningful CCs whatsoever, and our damage is mediocre when compared to stamina damage output.

If sorcerers had a CC as powerful as fear, then I would be completely understanding of everyone crying for nerfs, but they don't - in fact, sorcerers have some of the worst, if not the worst, CC options in the game. Our greatest duration knockdown is only a little over 2 seconds, and easily avoidable.

Most of our direct damage is almost completely able to be mitigated or ignored depending on your class.

Some of the biggest changes that need to be made before anything else gets changed is:
Dual wield magicka damage buff (anyone saying this is working as intended is fooling themselves)
Infinite sustain builds
Nirnhoned armor
Extremely high damage scaling / Low TTK

Once all of those things get changed, then class mechanics can start to be touched and tweaked, but to be perfectly honest I don't even think Zeni cares about the state of PvP at all.

Well I think Sorc cc is far better than Templar's.

I remember them saying in one of the latest ESO Live episodes that melee weapons had higher spell damage as a risk vs reward concept... because you need to be close to the target... /facepalm

I realize Templar's give out cc immunity like it's free candy bc/ of Jabs and Eclipse, but how is a slow moving projectile that has a cast time or an obvious visual cue better than a templar who can use a non-cast time projectile, a charge, or a range AOE?

well to be honest the stun on jabs needs to be erased - as i already mentioned my prefered substitution would be a stacking 1sec 15%snare on each dmg tick of it.
and the times of eclipse beeing a free immunity are gone since 2.0 breaking eclips eats a freaking hughe amount of stamina (7k+) and has an even longer breaking animation than fear supressing any action for quite some time.

Ah, Eclipse is and always was very annoying and I can't kill a decent Templar using that on me constantly.
But the fact that I can still move around, use all my defensive moves and cc, as well as Detonation + Curse, allows me to break it whenever I want, so that I have the cc immunity when I actually need it.

untill you get rooted can´t breaky any of the both "cc´s" and are smacked into the dust :P