feel kind of obligated to take 2h as a stamina user...

sticx45_ESO

I feel like if i don't take the 2h as a stamina user I'm going to be at a great disadvantage in combat. It just seems like the heal from Rally is just so good, I have to take the 2h just for it. (granted I don't have Vigor yet...) I actually prefer dual wield over two hand myself, but 2h has literally the only decent heal for stamina users other than vigor.

Am i crazy for feeling this way? Concerned Nightblade...

Varicite

sticx45_ESO wrote: »

I feel like if i don't take the 2h as a stamina user I'm going to be at a great disadvantage in combat. It just seems like the heal from Rally is just so good, I have to take the 2h just for it. (granted I don't have Vigor yet...) I actually prefer dual wield over two hand myself, but 2h has literally the only decent heal for stamina users other than vigor.

Am i crazy for feeling this way? Concerned Nightblade...

Nope, most stamina users feel exactly this way. If not for the heal from Rally, then for the easy access to Major Brutality.

Vigor does make it better, but you'll still want the burst heal from Rally even then.

kevlarto_ESO

sticx45_ESO wrote: »

I feel like if i don't take the 2h as a stamina user I'm going to be at a great disadvantage in combat. It just seems like the heal from Rally is just so good, I have to take the 2h just for it. (granted I don't have Vigor yet...) I actually prefer dual wield over two hand myself, but 2h has literally the only decent heal for stamina users other than vigor.

Am i crazy for feeling this way? Concerned Nightblade...

Nope not at all, I hate playing a fotm build makes me feel cheap and dirty LOL then on the other hand if I want to counter the other fotm players some time you have to for a while but it seems like 75% of players are running around with two handers, NB's Sorc's DK's everybody, I wonder why ?
I have played mmo;s for a very long time and in my experience when a player base gravitates to one weapon or armor set or skill it is because that item is broken and op in some way, like the insata kill and less than a second to kill, things that are not common in mmo combat, I would look for a fix after console release.

The heal is nice from rally.

iseko

A gap closer that always crits and does insane dmg at max distance.

A high dmg execute with low cost

A heal over time that can be converted to a burst heal with a buff to weapon dmg

A high risk high gain skill with stun and high dmg

What is not too like about 2handed?

Not going to help you in large scale fights with incoming dmg going off the charts but in small scale or 1v1 2 handed is nice when played right.

Animal_Mother

There's a reason why you get a two-hander by default in Escape from Coldharbour. And to think people were against it.

TheLaw

I don't disagree with this. It's one of the (if not the) most powerful skill lines in the game.

Varicite

iseko wrote: »

A gap closer that always crits and does insane dmg at max distance.

A high dmg execute with low cost

A heal over time that can be converted to a burst heal with a buff to weapon dmg

A high risk high gain skill with stun and high dmg

What is not too like about 2handed?

Not going to help you in large scale fights with incoming dmg going off the charts but in small scale or 1v1 2 handed is nice when played right.

It's actually kinda funny to think of this game at launch. I've played a dual 2H NB Redguard from Early Access till today, and the sentiment was pretty much the exact opposite.

2H was one of the worst weapons, had no decent main attack w/ Wrecking Blow having a longer (interruptable) cast time, Rally was just a weak HoT and the weapon damage bonus only applied to 2handers, etc.

The majority of NB passives simply did not work at all and was widely regarded as the flat-out weakest class in the game.

My how times have changed!

But sometimes, y'know, the pendulum swings a bit too far the other way...

Samadhi

sticx45_ESO wrote: »

I feel like if i don't take the 2h as a stamina user I'm going to be at a great disadvantage in combat. It just seems like the heal from Rally is just so good, I have to take the 2h just for it. (granted I don't have Vigor yet...) I actually prefer dual wield over two hand myself, but 2h has literally the only decent heal for stamina users other than vigor.

Am i crazy for feeling this way? Concerned Nightblade...

The Rally heal is one skill that ends up in all of my Stamina builds no matter what.

The Weapon Damage buff is easily replaceable by crafting potions, but the idea of giving up on the heal is absurd to me.

It is not just Nightblade; my Stamina Templar runs it as primary heal, my Stamina Dragonknight runs it rather than relying on Dragon Blood, my Stamina Sorcerer uses it rather than Surge.

sticx45_ESO

This just seems absurd. It almost seems like the heal from rally should be put into a general tree that all stamina weapons can access. On top of that though, it seems a little OP in use, which is probably why so many people are abusing it atm.

OdinForge

sticx45_ESO wrote: »

This just seems absurd. It almost seems like the heal from rally should be put into a general tree that all stamina weapons can access. On top of that though, it seems a little OP in use, which is probably why so many people are abusing it atm.

It's not OP, it's just the only option. It's got a monopoly on stamina heals, one that's even greater than the mighty vigor.

If DW, 1H or bow had a similar heal (not counting abilities like absorb magic or blood craze), people would use it too. Instead you see virtually every stamina build running 2H with rally (and vigor if unlocked), more motivation to try different combinations of weapons.

Ezareth

sticx45_ESO wrote: »

I feel like if i don't take the 2h as a stamina user I'm going to be at a great disadvantage in combat. It just seems like the heal from Rally is just so good, I have to take the 2h just for it. (granted I don't have Vigor yet...) I actually prefer dual wield over two hand myself, but 2h has literally the only decent heal for stamina users other than vigor.

Am i crazy for feeling this way? Concerned Nightblade...

Try playing a Non-templar magicka user where you're virtually forced to take Resto staff for the only realiable heal for a *single* useful ability....healing ward.

2-hander is a freaking amazing weapon line 3-4 of the abilities there are awesome, not just rally.

Lyzaaa

Make vigor alliance rank 5.. but yea, zenimax thinks its an INSANE patch to change the number from 10.. to 5.

i dunno we'll have to wait months for that change, and to finally make builds viable. one skill can actually make a huge difference. Right now its like.. hmm im missing sustain , *** now these skilsl changes, well let me put them on my other bar.. but no room, hmm if i change this, but then i have no gapcloser.. wait damn.. .........k well let sjust go for 2hander then screw it. im high atm

Lyzaaa

oh and dual wield sucks.. meta is about burst so why bother one hand and shield and bow is a filler for the mobility..

2hander masterweapon.

Rally heals tons and its reliable, u dont have to hit anyone for it or do anything..

everyone.. 2hander and nightblade

or resto sorc, lets do eet

AngersRevenge

IMO; The only thing DW has over 2H is Hidden Blade. While 2H has a good gap closer, a heal/buff, and stam regen on a kill. Pros for 2H out weigh the cons, or the pros for DW.

Varicite

AngersRevenge wrote: »

IMO; The only thing DW has over 2H is Hidden Blade. While 2H has a good gap closer, a heal/buff, and stam regen on a kill. Pros for 2H out weigh the cons, or the pros for DW.

Has a speed buff too, which is kinda okay.

Preyfar

Stamina NB here. I want to dual wield, but with a lack of heals... I'm forced to 2H with Rally for the heal. I don't want to use it, but I'm really limited without it.

Tankqull

Preyfar wrote: »

Stamina NB here. I want to dual wield, but with a lack of heals... I'm forced to 2H with Rally for the heal. I don't want to use it, but I'm really limited without it.

use both,
dw provides nice ae´s and range options while your secondbar with 2h provides alle the required buffs and heals to feel safe...

Preyfar

Tankqull wrote: »

use both,
dw provides nice ae´s and range options while your secondbar with 2h provides alle the required buffs and heals to feel safe...

I do ranged (Master's Bow) and 2H, else I'd use that combo exactly.

Lyzaaa

Tankqull wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Stamina NB here. I want to dual wield, but with a lack of heals... I'm forced to 2H with Rally for the heal. I don't want to use it, but I'm really limited without it.

use both,
dw provides nice ae´s and range options while your secondbar with 2h provides alle the required buffs and heals to feel safe...

Weaponswapping to try and get more dmg out of dual wield or for the ranged setup actually lowers ur damage.. animations take to long.. just stick to 2h NB is the only class that can faceroll everyone witih just 1 bar.. Fear/execute(2h)/suprise attack/ambush and rally.

U can put anything on the 2ndary bar, dark cloak would be nice but honestly.. The problem isn't exactly a NB issue i mean as soon as vigor comes out.. i dunno Nb's have tons of frekain options they can go dual wield on the main bar and resto on the 2ndary and still be fine.

eliisra

Lyzaaa wrote: »

oh and dual wield sucks.. meta is about burst so why bother one hand and shield and bow is a filler for the mobility..

Tell that to the 40-man Steel Zornado zerg that just ran me over in 0.01 sec

That's the pure definition of 1.6 meta.

But for sure, when you're not grouped with an actual healer than 2-Hander is vastly superior to DW. It's also superior for all DK + Sorc lacking a class based stamina spam attack. DW is good for NB or templar single target dps(PvE) and AoE for everyone.

I would also prefer running bow/DW on my nightblades, but forced to use 2-Hander for Rally. Like how I was also forced to use Resto staff when built for magicka on NB.

I dont think Vigor unlocked at support 5 will make much difference either. Only stamina zergs will be stronger. Single players aren't going to get that much extra survivability from AoE HoT's. They will still be forced to use Rally.

Lyzaaa

eliisra wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

oh and dual wield sucks.. meta is about burst so why bother one hand and shield and bow is a filler for the mobility..

Tell that to the 40-man Steel Zornado zerg that just ran me over in 0.01 sec

That's the pure definition of 1.6 meta.

But for sure, when you're not grouped with an actual healer than 2-Hander is vastly superior to DW. It's also superior for all DK + Sorc lacking a class based stamina spam attack. DW is good for NB or templar single target dps(PvE) and AoE for everyone.

I would also prefer running bow/DW on my nightblades, but forced to use 2-Hander for Rally. Like how I was also forced to use Resto staff when built for magicka on NB.

I dont think Vigor unlocked at support 5 will make much difference either. Only stamina zergs will be stronger. Single players aren't going to get that much extra survivability from AoE HoT's. They will still be forced to use Rally.

no they wont.

Rust_in_Peace

Even without the heal Major Brutality is a must have buff. I hate the fact we have to use "buff" skills on a bar that only has room for 5 abilities. It also seems kind of weak that there's no offensive purge in the game that removes buffs from an enemy.

Tankqull

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Stamina NB here. I want to dual wield, but with a lack of heals... I'm forced to 2H with Rally for the heal. I don't want to use it, but I'm really limited without it.

use both,
dw provides nice ae´s and range options while your secondbar with 2h provides alle the required buffs and heals to feel safe...

Weaponswapping to try and get more dmg out of dual wield or for the ranged setup actually lowers ur damage.. animations take to long.. just stick to 2h NB is the only class that can faceroll everyone witih just 1 bar.. Fear/execute(2h)/suprise attack/ambush and rally.

U can put anything on the 2ndary bar, dark cloak would be nice but honestly.. The problem isn't exactly a NB issue i mean as soon as vigor comes out.. i dunno Nb's have tons of frekain options they can go dual wield on the main bar and resto on the 2ndary and still be fine.

who needs to swap? he´s a NB so the only ability worth to be used from 2h is rally wich is on your second bar with all the buffs.
while your main(DW) bar contains ambush, surprise attack, flying blades(solo/small or steel tornado when zerging) and two utility options beeing two of either fear, cloak, vigor or sth else i forgott...

Varicite

Lyzaaa wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

oh and dual wield sucks.. meta is about burst so why bother one hand and shield and bow is a filler for the mobility..

Tell that to the 40-man Steel Zornado zerg that just ran me over in 0.01 sec

That's the pure definition of 1.6 meta.

But for sure, when you're not grouped with an actual healer than 2-Hander is vastly superior to DW. It's also superior for all DK + Sorc lacking a class based stamina spam attack. DW is good for NB or templar single target dps(PvE) and AoE for everyone.

I would also prefer running bow/DW on my nightblades, but forced to use 2-Hander for Rally. Like how I was also forced to use Resto staff when built for magicka on NB.

I dont think Vigor unlocked at support 5 will make much difference either. Only stamina zergs will be stronger. Single players aren't going to get that much extra survivability from AoE HoT's. They will still be forced to use Rally.

no they wont.

Even w/ Vigor, I still use Rally for the burst heal on top of the HoTs, because HoTs are not going to keep you up through the burst that people are currently putting out.

Fizzlewizzle

I think they should give the healing buff you get from rally also to the DW skill tree (Maybe the Blade Cloak skill?)
I think it would be a lot better then the damage it gives every few seconds, as those numbers are pretty low.


2h: Major Berserk + Heal.
DW: Decreased AOE damage Recieved + heal.

Warraxx

meh, I like Forward Momentum better than Rally... you know, reasons.

Varicite

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think they should give the healing buff you get from rally also to the DW skill tree (Maybe the Blade Cloak skill?)
I think it would be a lot better then the damage it gives every few seconds, as those numbers are pretty low.


2h: Major Berserk + Heal.
DW: Decreased AOE damage Recieved + heal.

If that's the case, then bows would also want this. And sword and board, because why wouldn't tanks want a heal also?

And while we're at it, why not Destro staff? Why should they be forced to go resto to heal when they are DPS?

Fizzlewizzle

Varicite wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think they should give the healing buff you get from rally also to the DW skill tree (Maybe the Blade Cloak skill?)
I think it would be a lot better then the damage it gives every few seconds, as those numbers are pretty low.


2h: Major Berserk + Heal.
DW: Decreased AOE damage Recieved + heal.

If that's the case, then bows would also want this. And sword and board, because why wouldn't tanks want a heal also?

And while we're at it, why not Destro staff? Why should they be forced to go resto to heal when they are DPS?

From everything you mentioned only SnB has to be close and personal with the enemies if they want to fight (Just like 2h and DW). They however have a huge damage Mitigation, as well as the option to heal when they are facing caster.
With Bows and Destruction staffs you don't have to go towards your enemy... they (generally) have to come to you if they want to hurt you.
(I think that close to 70% of the enemies in this game are melee types. Not something that should bother a Long ranged fighter too much if they know how to kite.)

Although i get your logic, the more logical solution would be to strip the healing effect off of the 2h skill line. Since i doubt most people are willing to accept that i would suggest making the other melee option more appealing rather than going after the (general) first choice and kicking it in she shins.

Varicite

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think they should give the healing buff you get from rally also to the DW skill tree (Maybe the Blade Cloak skill?)
I think it would be a lot better then the damage it gives every few seconds, as those numbers are pretty low.


2h: Major Berserk + Heal.
DW: Decreased AOE damage Recieved + heal.

If that's the case, then bows would also want this. And sword and board, because why wouldn't tanks want a heal also?

And while we're at it, why not Destro staff? Why should they be forced to go resto to heal when they are DPS?

From everything you mentioned only SnB has to be close and personal with the enemies if they want to fight (Just like 2h and DW). They however have a huge damage Mitigation, as well as the option to heal when they are facing caster.
With Bows and Destruction staffs you don't have to go towards your enemy... they (generally) have to come to you if they want to hurt you.
(I think that close to 70% of the enemies in this game are melee types. Not something that should bother a Long ranged fighter too much if they know how to kite.)

Although i get your logic, the more logical solution would be to strip the healing effect off of the 2h skill line. Since i doubt most people are willing to accept that i would suggest making the other melee option more appealing rather than going after the (general) first choice and kicking it in she shins.

I think they went the other route and created Vigor. And they're cutting the rank needed to unlock it in half soon.

AngersRevenge

Varicite wrote: »

AngersRevenge wrote: »

IMO; The only thing DW has over 2H is Hidden Blade. While 2H has a good gap closer, a heal/buff, and stam regen on a kill. Pros for 2H out weigh the cons, or the pros for DW.

Has a speed buff too, which is kinda okay.

True, but I prefer Double Take. It adds dodge instead of AoE damage reduce and uses magicka instead of stam. The OP said he was a NB so he would have access to Double Take.

Lucky for me I prefer a nice Great Sword over a couple puny daggers.

Varicite

AngersRevenge wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

AngersRevenge wrote: »

IMO; The only thing DW has over 2H is Hidden Blade. While 2H has a good gap closer, a heal/buff, and stam regen on a kill. Pros for 2H out weigh the cons, or the pros for DW.

Has a speed buff too, which is kinda okay.

True, but I prefer Double Take. It adds dodge instead of AoE damage reduce and uses magicka instead of stam. The OP said he was a NB so he would have access to Double Take.

Lucky for me I prefer a nice Great Sword over a couple puny daggers.

Agreed. I use Double Take on my NBs as well. But for my DK, I use the speed buff from DW because it's SO cheap and easy to keep up.