Confirmation from ZOS: Most Templar skills working as intended

david.haypreub18_ESO

I'm not sure if everyone caught this, but I thought it would be of interest to everyone who plays Templars. Gina just confirmed in another post that many of the Templar skills we thought were bugged were actually working as intended. The new delay on Breath of Life? Working as intended. The Global Cool Down on Focused Charge? Working as intended. The CC immunity granted by Biting Jabs? Working as intended.

So don't expect any of these things to change anytime soon.

Here's the post:
ZOS_GinaBruno
admin

As promised, below is an update for some of the issues called out in this thread. Note that we tried to focus on what sounded like potential bugs, and not necessarily all of the ability feedback (though we did pass it along!)

•Eclipse does not work properly when using other abilities, such as Burning Talons. •We’re aware of this issue, and are working on a fix.

•Focused Charge animation still occasionally gets stuck, and has a global cooldown. •We’ll take another look and see why some of you are still getting stuck. As for the GCD, it’s an extremely small number and is intended for this ability. There was previously an issue where using this ability would lock you out of using other spells for a few seconds (which was not intended), and has since been fixed.

•You cannot get benefit from the Focused Healing passive if you rapidly cast Purifying Ritual and Breath of Life. You have to wait until the first HOT tick to get that passive work which is 2 seconds. •We’re aware, and working on a fix for this.

•Puncturing Strikes grants a CC immunity to every target it hits, regardless if they are hit by the knockback. •We looked into this, and found that the only player who gains CC immunity is the closest person who gets hit by the knockback. If you’re seeing otherwise, please pass along some additional information (exact repro steps, videos, etc.)

•The healing pool from Purifying Light disappears as soon as the mob has died. •This is currently working the way we intended, though we are making some tweaks to this ability in the next major update.

•Projectiles from Reflective Light are missing the target when LOS is lost. •We’d like to request some additional information for this issue so we can investigate further.

•Standing in Extended Ritual or Channeled Focus does not give you any healing bonus to Repentance (Focus Healing passive). •We’re aware of this issue, and are still investigating a potential fix for it.

•Repentance doesn't scale with Mending passive, and also only scales with magicka. •We’ll be fixing the issue where Mending isn’t increasing the healing on this ability in our next major update. It was originally by design that Repentance scales off your maximum magicka, but with the changes introduced in Update 6, it makes more sense to make this scale off your highest stats as the ability has no cost. This will be addressed in a future update.

•Rushed Ceremony has a noticeable animation delay. •The launch frame of this ability is just slower than some of the other abilities by design. Since Rushed Ceremony is already very powerful, we’re ok with the fact that part of the skill of using this ability effectively is being able to anticipate damage.

•Sun Fire has a slow projectile speed. •This will be addressed in the next major update.

•Templar instant casts with long animations can be interrupted. •If you’re seeing this particular issue, we’d like some additional information so we can investigate.

•Unable to mount after healing someone that’s still in combat. •This is actually linked to guards and their behavior in combat; we’re going to re-evaluate and see what we can do to improve this issue.

MissBizz

I have been trying to follow that thread, and did see Gina's post.. But where did you see breath of life is WAI?

eliisra

MissBizz wrote: »

I have been trying to follow that thread, and did see Gina's post.. But where did you see breath of life is WAI?

I read in some earlier post that they where going to speed it up. If not, than I'm seriously pissed of.

Anticipating dmg wtf, they ever play PvP? They think you have a spare second to wait for animation, with today's insane burst? I'm currently dying mid Breath of Life animation. Totally WAI yeah. Try out-healing and anticipating anything when you take 25k dmg over 1.2 sec.

Templars have no actual self-heals like GDB, no escapes, no mobility and no shield that scales of magicka. What they have is smart heals and most of them are rubbish. So apparently our only decent heal skill, that actually used to keeps us alive somewhat, needs to stay nerfed to *** with delay, because it can heal others.

I should really stay away from these templar threads, makes me want to place a bag filled with dog turds outside of ZoS HQ

david.haypreub18_ESO

MissBizz wrote: »

I have been trying to follow that thread, and did see Gina's post.. But where did you see breath of life is WAI?

Originally, Gina said this about the delay that was introduced to Rushed Ceremony and its morphs with 1.6, when the new animation was added:

'Breath of Life: This ability appears to have a consistent delay after activation. We plan on increasing the cast time for this ability in a future update.'

This actually created a lot of negative feedback, and Gina had to clarify that what she meant would be that the skill would be fixed by speeding up its cast time. Here's the thread where she said that:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163812/breath-of-life-nerf

Now, however, she is saying that the skill is actually fine, and nothing is going to be changed after all:

'Rushed Ceremony has a noticeable animation delay. The launch frame of this ability is just slower than some of the other abilities by design. Since Rushed Ceremony is already very powerful, we’re ok with the fact that part of the skill of using this ability effectively is being able to anticipate damage.'

This is becoming a pattern. It is similar to what they did with the Global Cool Down on Focused charge. First, they introduce a problem to a skill that was working fine. Then, they say that the problem they introduced was a bug that will be fixed. But in the end, rather than actually fix the problem, they just deny it is a bug and say it won't therefore be fixed.

And then they wonder why people rank Templars dead last in PvP!

Seri

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Now, however, she is saying that the skill is actually fine, and nothing is going to be changed after all:

'Rushed Ceremony has a noticeable animation delay. The launch frame of this ability is just slower than some of the other abilities by design.

So can they rename it to Deferred Ceremony then? With the burst of PvP I find it more reliable 90% of the time to cast Healing Ward to absorb whatever else was incoming first and then deal with the BoL delay. In PvE I just hope my group are holding block until it finishes casting.

driosketch

Seri wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Now, however, she is saying that the skill is actually fine, and nothing is going to be changed after all:

'Rushed Ceremony has a noticeable animation delay. The launch frame of this ability is just slower than some of the other abilities by design.

So can they rename it to Deferred Ceremony then? With the burst of PvP I find it more reliable 90% of the time to cast Healing Ward to absorb whatever else was incoming first and then deal with the BoL delay. In PvE I just hope my group are holding block until it finishes casting.

I've been doing this too. See someone in critical, healing ward and BoL on top of it. They tend to die if I try to spam BoL first. Sometimes I'll just spam healing ward if there are a lot.

Edgar_Baerland

I will gladly trade you a Breath Of Life tomorrow for a cheeseburger today

Edgar_Baerland

But seriously though lets just accept that ZOS is terrified of Templars somehow becoming demigods if they throw them any kind of a bone in regards to class skills that currently exist and lack in efficacy.

We're just asking for a little bit of a boost. Nothing crazy. Just give us something exciting offensively or hell even defensively, whether it be passives, skill tweaks, something. I'm grateful for Radiant, but I feel like losing blinding flashes was a massive bummer. It would be SO useful against nightblades atm.

At least their working on sun fire speed. That's a massive relief. #Blindingflashesinsteadofbacklash or #blindingflashesinsteadofjavelin

Dixa

stop watching fox news.

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure if everyone caught this, but I thought it would be of interest to everyone who plays Templars. Gina just confirmed in another post that many of the Templar skills we thought were bugged were actually working as intended. The new delay on Breath of Life? Working as intended.

you read it wrong. see other threads

The Global Cool Down on Focused Charge? Working as intended.

I can't instantly chain-charge with the 1h+sh and 2h versions either. it's not a game breaker, but not having that in - for now - clearly is.

The CC immunity granted by Biting Jabs? Working as intended.

You didn't even read her response. here, I will cut and paste it for you. try reading every word this time. •We looked into this, and found that the only player who gains CC immunity is the closest person who gets hit by the knockback. If you’re seeing otherwise, please pass along some additional information (exact repro steps, videos, etc.)

Dixa

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

And then they wonder why people rank Templars dead last in PvP!

good thing it's not a pvp-focused game, and that nothing is preventing you from creating and playing whatever the current fotm is.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Dixa wrote: »

stop watching fox news.

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure if everyone caught this, but I thought it would be of interest to everyone who plays Templars. Gina just confirmed in another post that many of the Templar skills we thought were bugged were actually working as intended. The new delay on Breath of Life? Working as intended.

you read it wrong. see other threads

I read it correctly, so you need to reread the history of this. As I explained, she first said this was a bug that would be changed by changing the animation. Now she is saying the animation will not be changed because it is not a bug. What, precisely, did I read 'wrong' [sic] about that? Care to explain?

Dixa wrote: »

The Global Cool Down on Focused Charge? Working as intended.

I can't instantly chain-charge with the 1h+sh and 2h versions either. it's not a game breaker, but not having that in - for now - clearly is.

Do you know what a Global Cool Down is? Do you know that the other charges do not have one? Do you know that the Templar charge is the only one that does?

Reading comprehension FTW!

david.haypreub18_ESO

Edit.

Soris

Dixa wrote: »

I can't instantly chain-charge with the 1h+sh and 2h versions either. it's not a game breaker, but not having that in - for now - clearly is.

You can exactly play ping-pong by jumping one enemy from another with crit charge or ambush or any of those. Try to do that with focused charge. GCD will hunt you. You will see it feels less smooth and fluent than the others, like you are lagging.
Not a game breaker for sure but asking for a fix to the bugs is a bad thing for you?

Dixa wrote: »

good thing it's not a pvp-focused game, and that nothing is preventing you from creating and playing whatever the current fotm is.

Ignorance at its finest. Move along with your FOTM class, what are you doing in templar thread?

Tankqull

Soris wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

I can't instantly chain-charge with the 1h+sh and 2h versions either. it's not a game breaker, but not having that in - for now - clearly is.

You can exactly play ping-pong by jumping one enemy from another with crit charge or ambush or any of those. Try to do that with focused charge. GCD will hunt you. You will see it feels less smooth and fluent than the others, like you are lagging.
Not a game breaker for sure but asking for a fix to the bugs is a bad thing for you?

not to mention that you loose the entire cc effect to the GCD instead of using it to hit a hard hitting attack like any other charge enables you to do...

twistedmonk

R.I.P Templar

david.haypreub18_ESO

twistedmonk wrote: »

R.I.P Templar

I'd like to add, 'We had a good run'... but I can't. We've been dead last in PvP since beta. I guess that's what ZOS intended for the class.

twistedmonk

I think the issue is that none of the ZOS staff are any good at PvP and just don't get it.

They probably all derp along with the zerg and think they have skill and that everything is fine.

Khivas_Carrick

This class and some of it's players, I swear.

Guys are acting like its the end of the world here, come on now. They're getting whips cracked on their backs ffs, poor sods working as hard as they can these days, give em a break about these bugs lol

Also, if I were you guys, I'd worry more about useless skills than bugged ones. For example, don't you freaking dare touch Backlash. Instead get Javelin changed into Blinding Flashes again and rework it slightly.

Change Sun Fire to either a really fast traveling bolt or maybe even an instant hit in terms of speed, since it certainly isn't all that powerful in terms of damage.

Make Solar Flare less Holy Mortar Fire and more Holy Hadouken. Also hit harder too.

Make Breath Of Life a longer range and heal more targets for it's many prices paid.

Make Purifying Ritual instant and not rely on Synergy to work for others.

Things like this at what's needed most. Believe it or not it isn't too much to ask for this either, that you can take to the bank.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please hear us out here, or rather, hear the other, less vocal side out first.

Soris

They are all in the wish list and devs are aware of it. But they decided to fix bugs first before going any further which is imo best thing to do first. But then legalising bugs by making them new feature is not the right way to fix bugs. That's all about for this outcry you see in every corner of the forum^^

david.haypreub18_ESO

I think the most disheartening thing is just seeing how out of touch ZOS seems to be in their attempts to fix Templars.

First they should have fixed the bugged skills. Instead, they started changing skills that worked, nerfing or eliminating many of the good ones (Restoring Aura, Blinding Flashes) and introducing new bugs or crippling new 'features' to others (Biting Jabs giving CC immunity, Breath of Life now having a delay, etc.). They actually had to be dragged kicking and screaming by their own players to address some of the gamebreaking bugs (Eclipse, Toppling Charge), and even then they gave up on Toppling Charge and Breath of Life and have not addressed several others.

What a messed-up way of trying to fix a class! First they should have fixed the bugs and clunky animation delays and Global Cool Downs that make skills useless. Before they fix those, they can't really get a good sense of the Templars' potential because no one is using those skills.

Once they fixed those, then they could have considered what Templars still need (hint: AoE CC or some form of escape/mobility).

The way they did it--not addressing bugs-- failed very badly, because Templars are crippled by bugs, Global Cool Downs and clunky/delayed animations, as virtually everyone except ZOS seems to realize. The more they persist in this the more ridiculous they seem.

Cinbri

People, stop it, i tired of pushing Agree button

Yoven

I appreciate the effort by listing @ZOS_GinaBruno post to make it more visible to all. But I would recommend to post your feedback in the origial post so it gets the attention it deserves.

Keep fighting brothers!

Alcast

As long as they do not change the Animation on Toppling charge there will ALWAYS be a GCD. The animation is *** thats why its so slow. And the dude who prolly created the animation is long gone and the other dudes prolly dunno how to fix gj

driosketch

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Also, if I were you guys, I'd worry more about useless skills than bugged ones. For example, don't you freaking dare touch Backlash. Instead get Javelin changed into Blinding Flashes again and rework it slightly.

Why would you touch javelin? That skill has something that resembles utility. Tweak it maybe. You want to replace a skill to get blinding flashes back, replace restoring aura. Not much point in that skill anymore.

david.haypreub18_ESO

driosketch wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Also, if I were you guys, I'd worry more about useless skills than bugged ones. For example, don't you freaking dare touch Backlash. Instead get Javelin changed into Blinding Flashes again and rework it slightly.

Why would you touch javelin? That skill has something that resembles utility. Tweak it maybe. You want to replace a skill to get blinding flashes back, replace restoring aura. Not much point in that skill anymore.

I feel the same. For a Stamina Templar, spear gives some utility: not so much for the damage (which is low for the cost), but the stun and knockback are quite useful in some builds.

Compare that to Healing Ritual: seriously, does anyone use that? It is a dead skill to me.

ThatHappyCat

Piercing Javelin's problem is it's almost strictly worse than equivalent weapon skills, most notably Fire Touch; which does a lot more damage, costs less magicka, knocks back further and, with Clench, stuns for longer. For stamina builds there's Magnum Shot which, while not as obviously strictly superior, is generally used over Javelin.

In terms of Healing Ritual, I think ZOS didn't anticipate Breath of Life becoming the definitive group healing skill. They seem to have accepted this however, in which case Healing Ritual should be scrapped for something completely different; otherwise no matter how they balance it either BoL or Healing Ritual will make the other obsolete. Personally I'd like an AoE Minor Berserk buff: it won't overpower Templar healers as non-Templars have Combat Prayer, and depending on how it works might also help Templar DPS in non-Trial situations.

.....

I'm honestly quite okay with BoL having a slight delay. In fact IIRC BoL always had the same delay for the main heal, but before 1.6 the side heals popped almost instantly. They simply made BoL's side heals pop at the same time as the main heal. As it is I can usually anticipate if someone's about to take a hit, and if I misjudged and wasted a cast that's okay since BoL's really, really spammable now (with Champion points).

PvP is a different affair of course, but it's honestly not that different compared to pre-1.6 because the most heavily injured ally will never get the instant side heals, they'll get the much slower main heal; so if you can't save a particular ally from getting bursted down now you probably wouldn't have been able to save them with the old BoL either.

(I may be wrong about old BoL's main heal being the same speed as BoL now, it's been a while. Feel free to correct me on this.)

With Focused Charge, I agree... it's still clunky. I suspect that the main problem is the animation (creating the spear and then removing it, except sometimes it doesn't get removed properly and we get the stuck bug) and ZOS doesn't know how to fix it without changing the animation completely.

(Also buff Honour the Dead. What's the point in having a morph system when one morph is almost always preferred over the other.)