Why even bother...

Whyn Aurum

...to put any kind of feedback from us, the players onto this PvP forum when we NEVER get ANY kind of interest and response from ZOS staff; not even a mild suggestion that a certain topic is being talked about or taken under supervision among the dev team. All I see is cleaning threads out of meaningless replies and derailed conversation.

Why don't you hire someone who will actually stay in touch with the community...

inb4 this thread get the generic ZOS message - we had to clean this up has... bla bla.

Vatter

you've already paid them and they don't have to refund anything so WHY would they listen to you? Do you actually think they will spend money to fix something when they will receive no more cash from you? Not gonna happen.

Whyn Aurum

Vatter wrote: »

you've already paid them and they don't have to refund anything so WHY would they listen to you? Do you actually think they will spend money to fix something when they will receive no more cash from you? Not gonna happen.

Thats a valid point though...

Showing active support for the community just fascilitates the growth and spread of the word how great an MMO can be and many game [excluding this one] have this kind of positive opinion.

Just off the top of my head: Riot (LoL), GGG (Path of Exile), Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls (yes its good now thanks to the new team) and many, many more. It boggles my mind how a company can be this careless of its community.

Cathexis

The way I see it, I won't be buying any more crowns until their are name changes and race changes implemented.

Then maybe we'll see after that if they get my support.

PKMN12

Whyn Aurum wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

you've already paid them and they don't have to refund anything so WHY would they listen to you? Do you actually think they will spend money to fix something when they will receive no more cash from you? Not gonna happen.

Thats a valid point though...

Showing active support for the community just fascilitates the growth and spread of the word how great an MMO can be and many game [excluding this one] have this kind of positive opinion.

Just off the top of my head: Riot (LoL), GGG (Path of Exile), Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls (yes its good now thanks to the new team) and many, many more. It boggles my mind how a company can be this careless of its community.

welcome to the wonderful world of gaming.

EA (for example) is the biggest Game devs in teh world, they are also considered the WORST.

Sensesfail13

*shrug* ended my sub a week ago and I wont be resubbing until I can level in a decent manner. These vet levels are worse than the hell levels of the original Everquest, at least I wasnt bored grinding those levels.

Darkonflare15

PKMN12 wrote: »

Whyn Aurum wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

you've already paid them and they don't have to refund anything so WHY would they listen to you? Do you actually think they will spend money to fix something when they will receive no more cash from you? Not gonna happen.

Thats a valid point though...

Showing active support for the community just fascilitates the growth and spread of the word how great an MMO can be and many game [excluding this one] have this kind of positive opinion.

Just off the top of my head: Riot (LoL), GGG (Path of Exile), Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls (yes its good now thanks to the new team) and many, many more. It boggles my mind how a company can be this careless of its community.

welcome to the wonderful world of gaming.

EA (for example) is the biggest Game devs in teh world, they are also considered the WORST.

Not any more. The new mantle now goes to Ubisoft.

Auricle

I know this will get me flamed, but I think ZoS has done a fairly decent job updating the community... on some issues. With the amount of ragehate threads, I'm not terribly surprised at their silence in most cases. Responding to temper tantrums has never been a successful parenting strategy, as far as I know.

Just out of curiousity, what did you hope to accomplish with this thread? I'm not being sarcastic; I'm actually curious. Is there one issue in particular you wanted to hear from them about?

Sensesfail13

You havent played this game long... have you? ^^^

Derra

It´s pretty likely that they consider the game dead for the pc community in terms of growth potential. Why would they invest in a declining or stagnant market.

Only think one can do is record the sh*tpile that pvp has become and bribe some youtube rewievers to put that footage into their console reviews.

Whyn Aurum

Auricle wrote: »

I know this will get me flamed, but I think ZoS has done a fairly decent job updating the community... on some issues. With the amount of ragehate threads, I'm not terribly surprised at their silence in most cases. Responding to temper tantrums has never been a successful parenting strategy, as far as I know.

Just out of curiousity, what did you hope to accomplish with this thread? I'm not being sarcastic; I'm actually curious. Is there one issue in particular you wanted to hear from them about?

There are no particular issues I had in miind. I read these PvP forums on a regular basis and this lack of contact is something that really sticks out and bothers the hell out of me

Cthalion

They are too busy doing stuff for console development/release/whatever. Just IMO. As unfortunate as it is, that is the truth. We've all seen it before with other studios, and other games. They will cater to the larger market, period.

That said, yeah ZOS throw us a bone now and then please. A lot of us love the game, don't crap on us.

themdogesbite

Games dead

Sotha_Sil

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Games dead

But people will still buy console version. It's amazing.

wanderlustx5

Heres the thing, it boils down to it being much more of a pve game then a pvp game. Thats the only way to account for the massive class imbalances that seem to shift very rapidly.

Xael

Whyn Aurum wrote: »

...to put any kind of feedback from us, the players onto this PvP forum when we NEVER get ANY kind of interest and response from ZOS staff; not even a mild suggestion that a certain topic is being talked about or taken under supervision among the dev team. All I see is cleaning threads out of meaningless replies and derailed conversation.

Why don't you hire someone who will actually stay in touch with the community...

inb4 this thread get the generic ZOS message - we had to clean this up has... bla bla.

http://i.imgur.com/brttT06.jpg


Can you imagine... if ZOS tried to sort through every baseless, whining, absurd post just in these 2 sections?
These 2 PvP forum sections are rife with senseless, biased whining, which cannot see past it's own myopia.
It's literally the same damn people in almost every thread giving their expert (sarcasm) opinion on how they see things or think things should be. Thread after thread of the same old sh*t... it's absurd.

Garion

Xael wrote: »

Whyn Aurum wrote: »

...to put any kind of feedback from us, the players onto this PvP forum when we NEVER get ANY kind of interest and response from ZOS staff; not even a mild suggestion that a certain topic is being talked about or taken under supervision among the dev team. All I see is cleaning threads out of meaningless replies and derailed conversation.

Why don't you hire someone who will actually stay in touch with the community...

inb4 this thread get the generic ZOS message - we had to clean this up has... bla bla.

http://i.imgur.com/brttT06.jpg


Can you imagine... if ZOS tried to sort through every baseless, whining, absurd post just in these 2 sections?
These 2 PvP forum sections are rife with senseless, biased whining, which cannot see past it's own myopia.
It's literally the same damn people in almost every thread giving their expert (sarcasm) opinion on how they see things or think things should be. Thread after thread of the same old sh*t... it's absurd.

But within that there are also insightful posts and threads with decent ideas from genuine PvPers who enjoyed this game and really want to see the wealth of problems it is undeniably experiencing be resolved. Should these posts and threads be entirely ignored because of a vocal minority who may not have the best interests of the game at heart? I think not.

In any case, PvP is seriously broken at the moment and something absolutely has to be done about it. It would be nice for ZOS to at least acknowledge that this is something they are prioritising and actively looking into, and provide some tangible evidence that this is the case (i.e. something meaningful in patch notes).

Unfortunately I don't think that we will see this, simply because the PC version has been more or less abandoned and any focus will be almost entirely on earning more money following the overall abysmal performance of the game in terms of subscription revenue. So we're talking new PvE content, new crown store items but no meaningful improvement to PvP...

Xael

Garion wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Whyn Aurum wrote: »

...to put any kind of feedback from us, the players onto this PvP forum when we NEVER get ANY kind of interest and response from ZOS staff; not even a mild suggestion that a certain topic is being talked about or taken under supervision among the dev team. All I see is cleaning threads out of meaningless replies and derailed conversation.

Why don't you hire someone who will actually stay in touch with the community...

inb4 this thread get the generic ZOS message - we had to clean this up has... bla bla.

http://i.imgur.com/brttT06.jpg


Can you imagine... if ZOS tried to sort through every baseless, whining, absurd post just in these 2 sections?
These 2 PvP forum sections are rife with senseless, biased whining, which cannot see past it's own myopia.
It's literally the same damn people in almost every thread giving their expert (sarcasm) opinion on how they see things or think things should be. Thread after thread of the same old sh*t... it's absurd.

But within that there are also insightful posts and threads with decent ideas from genuine PvPers who enjoyed this game and really want to see the wealth of problems it is undeniably experiencing be resolved. Should these posts and threads be entirely ignored because of a vocal minority who may not have the best interests of the game at heart? I think not.

In any case, PvP is seriously broken at the moment and something absolutely has to be done about it. It would be nice for ZOS to at least acknowledge that this is something they are prioritising and actively looking into, and provide some tangible evidence that this is the case (i.e. something meaningful in patch notes).

Unfortunately I don't think that we will see this, simply because the PC version has been more or less abandoned and any focus will be almost entirely on earning more money following the overall abysmal performance of the game in terms of subscription revenue. So we're talking new PvE content, new crown store items but no meaningful improvement to PvP...

I never said there are no meaningful threads or posts in these 2 sections. What I did say is that they are filled with mindless drivel and baseless whining.

PvP has always been broken. This is a matter of perspective. Moreover if you are complaining about TTK or 1.6, it's only been out since march. That said, it's only May. I hardly feel abandoned. Every stupid meta this game had, had some time in the sun. The same can be said for this. Also, TTK has always been quick, 1.5 meta was the illusion of safety and balance. Yet it was nothing but full impen, resto/1hs and light armor for almost everyone. This was broken pvp as well and numerous people left the game over it.

Garion

Xael wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Whyn Aurum wrote: »

...to put any kind of feedback from us, the players onto this PvP forum when we NEVER get ANY kind of interest and response from ZOS staff; not even a mild suggestion that a certain topic is being talked about or taken under supervision among the dev team. All I see is cleaning threads out of meaningless replies and derailed conversation.

Why don't you hire someone who will actually stay in touch with the community...

inb4 this thread get the generic ZOS message - we had to clean this up has... bla bla.

http://i.imgur.com/brttT06.jpg


Can you imagine... if ZOS tried to sort through every baseless, whining, absurd post just in these 2 sections?
These 2 PvP forum sections are rife with senseless, biased whining, which cannot see past it's own myopia.
It's literally the same damn people in almost every thread giving their expert (sarcasm) opinion on how they see things or think things should be. Thread after thread of the same old sh*t... it's absurd.

But within that there are also insightful posts and threads with decent ideas from genuine PvPers who enjoyed this game and really want to see the wealth of problems it is undeniably experiencing be resolved. Should these posts and threads be entirely ignored because of a vocal minority who may not have the best interests of the game at heart? I think not.

In any case, PvP is seriously broken at the moment and something absolutely has to be done about it. It would be nice for ZOS to at least acknowledge that this is something they are prioritising and actively looking into, and provide some tangible evidence that this is the case (i.e. something meaningful in patch notes).

Unfortunately I don't think that we will see this, simply because the PC version has been more or less abandoned and any focus will be almost entirely on earning more money following the overall abysmal performance of the game in terms of subscription revenue. So we're talking new PvE content, new crown store items but no meaningful improvement to PvP...

I never said there are no meaningful threads or posts in these 2 sections. What I did say is that they are filled with mindless drivel and baseless whining.

PvP has always been broken. This is a matter of perspective. Moreover if you are complaining about TTK or 1.6, it's only been out since march. That said, it's only May. I hardly feel abandoned. Every stupid meta this game had, had some time in the sun. The same can be said for this. Also, TTK has always been quick, 1.5 meta was the illusion of safety and balance. Yet it was nothing but full impen, resto/1hs and light armor for almost everyone. This was broken pvp as well and numerous people left the game over it.

No you didn't, but you did give the impression that you didn't think ZOS should bother reading and responding to that type of thread, given that it might mean they'd have to also take the time to sift through some less meaningful discussion. Granted it's not what I think the devs should be spending all their time doing, but ZOS have a community team and a bunch of moderators / administrators who could easily refer this kind of discussion, could they not?

My post refers predominantly to the lag we experience in Cyrodill and to an extent the zerging. TTK and build meta etc is something that needs looking at (and always has needed looking at) but it isn't the worst problem we're experiencing at the moment - and it's something that is going to be contentious in any event.

1.6 compounded the lag and zerging issues, no doubt about that. It's disappointing that we haven't seen much in the way of meaningful development steps to rectify this. If ZOS at least started making changes in the patch notes that indicated they were reading and acting on our feedback that would be enough. But zero responses from ZOS twinned with zero action is a sure fire way of making an already unhappy community even more unhappy with the game.

Xael

Garion wrote: »

No you didn't, but you did give the impression that you didn't think ZOS should bother reading and responding to that type of thread, given that it might mean they'd have to also take the time to sift through some less meaningful discussion. Granted it's not what I think the devs should be spending all their time doing, but ZOS have a community team and a bunch of moderators / administrators who could easily refer this kind of discussion, could they not?

My post refers predominantly to the lag we experience in Cyrodill and to an extent the zerging. TTK and build meta etc is something that needs looking at (and always has needed looking at) but it isn't the worst problem we're experiencing at the moment - and it's something that is going to be contentious in any event.

1.6 compounded the lag and zerging issues, no doubt about that. It's disappointing that we haven't seen much in the way of meaningful development steps to rectify this. If ZOS at least started making changes in the patch notes that indicated they were reading and acting on our feedback that would be enough. But zero responses from ZOS twinned with zero action is a sure fire way of making an already unhappy community even more unhappy with the game.

This I can agree with.
Unfortunately ZOS is dishonest and they realize console is the last shot they have. Let's be real, they already blew it with PC users. Some did come back for 1.6, but a lot did not. Some of those that came back already left. This platform is in a nosedive and they are using the console to somehow milk whatever drops they can.

A good example of their slipperiness are 2 mounts. 1 being the vet cat mount. If you noticed, they put a timestamp on getting it. In otherwords, you had to "act now!" to cash in on getting that mount, whether it be subbing for several months ahead of time, or simply renewing right then. Then they had some type of leopard mount. This was a weekend deal with another "act now!" stamped on it. They even said it was a limited time offer and may or may not be released in the future. Of course this was to make some fast cash off players.

Normally I would not care about companies selling cosmetic vanity items. But given the history of ZOS and the development of this game... it's rather disgusting. I mean not only do they refuse transparency and honesty, they offer ***-poor communication and customer service. For crying out loud, there are still bugs present that were a pain in the ass in beta. While I agree some type of presence other than Captain Cavalier (we all know who I am talking about) who swoops in on his white horse to close threads without even reading them or noting the context, I would also like some accountability. At least an admission on their part. While the former is certainly plausible, I don't the latter happening ever.

Lyzaaa

Oh yeah people gonna react being like ok well cya or whatever to my post ( dont rly care)

But im only gonna log on once a month now, got my DK to v14 like weeks ago just to see how pvp on that class was honestly, it only confirmed more. Dunno this game is highly unbalanced and it'll continue to be. Most frustrating is that this isnt even unbalanced actually , they just dont have any counters.

Oh and play what you like? well i'll go back to skyrim for that cause PvE in tihs game feels like singleplayer somewhat still , and skyrim for that part is just better. Play what you like in PvP? Dont think so, you hav eto dump everything into one stat cause some brilliant guy who does the balancing REWARDS u for that. Why the hell would someone even try going partially magicka or any hybrid or offstat, or off skill if % and flat stack on eachtoher, its like as if ur punished for doing something differently than just 1 route. And sadly this route makes certain classes uncounterable and retardedly strong, and it'll only increase by the dumb scaling.

I dunno i log on, few weeks ago i wouldnt mind that broken PvP that much, but im kinda done with it.. I'm not a zerger more of a skirmisher but yea.. game is full of bugs ( with my sorc bolt escape into being feared by someone that is more than a bolt escape distance away from me, and yes he feared me AFTER i bolt escaped. )

It's just a big sigh.. Everyone zergs and all the skirmishers are the same build , 99,9% are all the same build. Just sigh.. i'll log in from time to time..

Xael

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Oh yeah people gonna react being like ok well cya or whatever to my post ( dont rly care)

But im only gonna log on once a month now, got my DK to v14 like weeks ago just to see how pvp on that class was honestly, it only confirmed more. Dunno this game is highly unbalanced and it'll continue to be. Most frustrating is that this arent even unbalanced actually , they just dont have any counters.

Oh and play what you like? well i'll go back to skyrim for that cause PvE in tihs game feels like singleplayer somewhat still , and skyrim for that part is just better. Play what you like in PvP? Dont think so, you hav eto dump everything into one stat cause some brilliant guy who does the balancing REWARDS u for that. Why the hell would someone even try going partially magicka or any hybrid or offstat, or off skill if % and flat stack on eachtoher, its like as if ur punished for doing something differently than just 1 route. And sadly this route makes certain classes uncounterable and retardedly strong, and it'll only increase by the dumb scaling.

I dunno i log on, few weeks ago i wouldnt mind that broken PvP that much, but im kinda done with it.. I'm not a zerger more of a skirmisher but yea.. game is full of bugs ( with my sorc bolt escape into being feared by someone that is more than a bolt escape distance away from me, and yes he feared me AFTER i bolt escaped. )

It's just a big sigh.. Everyone zergs and all the skirmishers are the same build , 99,9% are all the same build. Just sigh.. i'll log in from time to time..

Regarding baseless whining, case in point.

SRIBES

Preech it lmao

Lyzaaa

Actually laughing at all those people on the forums defending their class not being OP , meanwhile being logged in and ripping everyone in PvP while watching an episode of Hello kitty.. OR they're logged in , watchin an episode of hello kitty while farming their champion points..

Being like.. OH man im gonna be so strong.. 2morrow i'll have this n that ill be even stronger.. cus my class takes skill kappa..

And they're not realizing all they're fihgtin is the same players with the same idea cause thats basicly PvP community in a while.. Fighting the same people everyday that think the same thing of being a really good player grinding that CP points or abusing their class LOL aaaaaaand in the end everyone else left and moved on being like.. tss yea lol.. remember that game? yea.. lol

But yea continue to say everything is alright and destroy the fun for the people not willing to participate in the rat race of farming champion points or running the only build being viable on the two, in particular one class. Peeeps wont stick around forever to be ur target dummy u kno..

Perphection

A couple people have said it, PC players will always be the step child in ESO. It's partially our fault for continuing to pay while we helped 'fix' their game for console.

My only hope is that the console release goes amazingly well and ZOS has an influx of cash, allowing them to hire some real devs who can provide this game with the love and attention it needs.

Xael

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Actually laughing at all those people on the forums defending their class not being OP , meanwhile being logged in and ripping everyone in PvP while watching an episode of Hello kitty.. OR they're logged in , watchin an episode of hello kitty while farming their champion points..

Being like.. OH man im gonna be so strong.. 2morrow i'll have this n that ill be even stronger.. cus my class takes skill kappa..

And they're not realizing all they're fihgtin is the same players with the same idea cause thats basicly PvP community in a while.. Fighting the same people everyday that think the same thing of being a really good player grinding that CP points or abusing their class LOL aaaaaaand in the end everyone else left and moved on being like.. tss yea lol.. remember that game? yea.. lol

But yea continue to say everything is alright and destroy the fun for the people not willing to participate in the rat race of farming champion points or running the only build being viable on the two, in particular one class. Peeeps wont stick around forever to be ur target dummy u kno..

Why are you even commenting?
According to your own words you are less than a novice when it comes to PvP. It is posts like these that I refer to when I mention "baseless whining" and "nonsense."

Lyzaaa

Xael wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Actually laughing at all those people on the forums defending their class not being OP , meanwhile being logged in and ripping everyone in PvP while watching an episode of Hello kitty.. OR they're logged in , watchin an episode of hello kitty while farming their champion points..

Being like.. OH man im gonna be so strong.. 2morrow i'll have this n that ill be even stronger.. cus my class takes skill kappa..

And they're not realizing all they're fihgtin is the same players with the same idea cause thats basicly PvP community in a while.. Fighting the same people everyday that think the same thing of being a really good player grinding that CP points or abusing their class LOL aaaaaaand in the end everyone else left and moved on being like.. tss yea lol.. remember that game? yea.. lol

But yea continue to say everything is alright and destroy the fun for the people not willing to participate in the rat race of farming champion points or running the only build being viable on the two, in particular one class. Peeeps wont stick around forever to be ur target dummy u kno..

Why are you even commenting?
According to your own words you are less than a novice when it comes to PvP. It is posts like these that I refer to when I mention "baseless whining" and "nonsense."

I never said i was less than a novice at pvp, and even if i were, does it really make a difference? Anyone could see this imbalance from a mile away.

You a NB by any chance? Kappa, honestly i dont care im just commenting checkin forums a bit, but i guess laughing is the same as whining btw.. I dunno i just facepalm lol

everything taken way to serious.. but oh my god a class could be nerfed .. battlestations boiiiyiissss prepare ^

idgaf

rfennell_ESO

Xael wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/brttT06.jpg


Can you imagine... if ZOS tried to sort through every baseless, whining, absurd post just in these 2 sections?
These 2 PvP forum sections are rife with senseless, biased whining, which cannot see past it's own myopia.
It's literally the same damn people in almost every thread giving their expert (sarcasm) opinion on how they see things or think things should be. Thread after thread of the same old sh*t... it's absurd.

The fact that ZOS tries to hold these community meetings at all is the true absurdity. I know of some people that have been having these "meetings" with ZOS and they aren't remotely knowledgeable. Some of them are pretty bad players... that play a lot or run a trade guild or are an officer in some large guild.

I'd rather them stop listening altogether and just get to using what tools they have to measure the game to balance the game.

The reason for the nonstop pvp crying and total misinformation campaigns is because ZOS tries to listen or is "rumored" to have listened. It's like they don't think that every partial tard they invite to some sit down isn't making every single person they interact with in game know that THEY are sitting down with ZOS and are important (lolz).

Ezareth

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/brttT06.jpg


Can you imagine... if ZOS tried to sort through every baseless, whining, absurd post just in these 2 sections?
These 2 PvP forum sections are rife with senseless, biased whining, which cannot see past it's own myopia.
It's literally the same damn people in almost every thread giving their expert (sarcasm) opinion on how they see things or think things should be. Thread after thread of the same old sh*t... it's absurd.

The fact that ZOS tries to hold these community meetings at all is the true absurdity. I know of some people that have been having these "meetings" with ZOS and they aren't remotely knowledgeable. Some of them are pretty bad players... that play a lot or run a trade guild or are an officer in some large guild.

I'd rather them stop listening altogether and just get to using what tools they have to measure the game to balance the game.

The reason for the nonstop pvp crying and total misinformation campaigns is because ZOS tries to listen or is "rumored" to have listened. It's like they don't think that every partial tard they invite to some sit down isn't making every single person they interact with in game know that THEY are sitting down with ZOS and are important (lolz).

I know for a fact they've held quite a few meetings with guilds who have quite a few knowledgeable people who bring up real issues. From my experience, it is pretty clear they just don't play their own game.

tinythinker

Well, right after 1.6 dropped we had PvP lead Brian Wheeler starting a couple of threads and even one by Matt Firor, and soon after we saw the boost to siege damage, the AP buffs for defeating a delve boss, and the Coldharbor siege engines dropping as loot from dark anchors. Compared to the level of communication and swiftness of implementation for the year prior, that was really remarkable.

No, that degree of interaction hasn't been sustained, but given the huge push to make the console release as good as it can be, along with what has happened when devs have shared their "as of now" plans for changes (recall the huge outcry over how many CS points vets were supposed to start with?), I am not surprised there hasn't been any news lately. Not saying this is OK or that I don't mind, just that I wouldn't expect to hear anything until just before or after console release.w

Joy_Division

Ezareth wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/brttT06.jpg


Can you imagine... if ZOS tried to sort through every baseless, whining, absurd post just in these 2 sections?
These 2 PvP forum sections are rife with senseless, biased whining, which cannot see past it's own myopia.
It's literally the same damn people in almost every thread giving their expert (sarcasm) opinion on how they see things or think things should be. Thread after thread of the same old sh*t... it's absurd.

The fact that ZOS tries to hold these community meetings at all is the true absurdity. I know of some people that have been having these "meetings" with ZOS and they aren't remotely knowledgeable. Some of them are pretty bad players... that play a lot or run a trade guild or are an officer in some large guild.

I'd rather them stop listening altogether and just get to using what tools they have to measure the game to balance the game.

The reason for the nonstop pvp crying and total misinformation campaigns is because ZOS tries to listen or is "rumored" to have listened. It's like they don't think that every partial tard they invite to some sit down isn't making every single person they interact with in game know that THEY are sitting down with ZOS and are important (lolz).

I know for a fact they've held quite a few meetings with guilds who have quite a few knowledgeable people who bring up real issues. From my experience, it is pretty clear they just don't play their own game.

I can vouch for the first sentence. And I agree with the second.