PvP Class Balance Analysis as of 2.0.7

rfennell_ESO

Sublime wrote: »

I have to agree with everything, apart from the fact that block affects, as far as I know, all builds equally.

Yes, true. However with the inevitable/curse stack it's ridiculously obvious when they are going to go off and a huge hint as to what is also coming. The huge glowing circle around your character gives you quite a clue that, even if you didn't notice the sorc casting it or it landing, it's about to go off. So the "burst" rotation of a sorc can be easily mitigated if you pay attention, which isn't really the case with other type of burst combinations. DK's and 1h&s users can just hold block and reflect and you pretty much can't do squat to them, you will have no real burst ability on them. Versus other sorcs, if they are decent they will use bolt escape and stand near their orb and hold block and again the "burst rotation" isn't one. Even the new hotness of 2h builds can choose to just hold block thru it and it's not going to end up burst anyone down.

Tankqull

Sublime wrote: »

shiva7663 wrote: »

What is "zoning" and how does it differ from crowd control?

Sublime wrote: »

Burst/Debuffing/Crowd Control/Zoning:
While a high damage output is certainly very important to kill enemies, it is only rarely sufficient to get a kill. What you need is a mix of damage, debuffs and CC. While crowd control is usually associated with stun and slow, it is also possible to control an enemy's movement by denying certain areas, also known as zoning. However, a certain level of burst is required since all CC is lost if the damage is not there to threaten a kill. Figures such as Max Stamina/Magicka, Spell Damage/Weapon Damage or skills with the likes of Eclipse, Burning Breath, Fear or Daedric Minefield is what we are looking at here.

Denying referes to making a certain area dangerous through a specific skill, therefore forcing a player to walk another way.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Why?

The "burst" rotation of sorcs is reflectable and ball of lightningable. At least in part.

Also you have issue of spell resists and nirnhorned which considerably lowers damage.

Also, while the theory of inevitable detonation->curse->CF proc/light attack-crushing shock is solid for nubs. Yes it blows nubs up quite spectacularly. However anyone that is experienced knows to block through the explosions, which makes it not nearly as effective as it can be.

I'd give the edge to nightblades personally, but overall your ranking system is pretty solid. But, I give the edge to nightblades in that they have double executes that start working at 50% (poison injection and executioner).

I have to agree with everything, apart from the fact that block affects, as far as I know, all builds equally.

nope spells and all range attacks in general are much stronger mitigated by blocking than melee attacks (not sure about NB magica melee attacks though but range spells are mitigated into oblivion by blocking)
e.g. http://imgur.com/ifoh7t9

Sublime

So the view I'm getting is as follows:

While the Sorcerer's Burst is really strong, it gets countered extremely easily since the big part of it is vulnerable to either Deflect Bolts, Roll Dodge, Reflects, or Ball of Lightning. Therefore I put NB and SR Burst on 5.

Nightblade [Burst]: 4 -> 5

Erock25 wrote: »

Streak does not go through block anymore @Sublime

Thanks for the headsup, updated OP accordingly

Derra

Really like how you keep the discussion going and update you topic. Thats a lot more effort most ppl (myself included) are willing to put into their topic.

I have to admit though - i would not want to "balance" NB and sorc currently as the small grp balance lies in shambles. Please give a smaller force some edge over a zerg/blob (like the old ultimate system scaling with targets hit).
They have to work on the game balance in general. Work on the insanely low TTK (reverting the HP nerf would go a looong way imho) but also reduce the amount of selfsustain certain tankbuilds have. Give ranged builds something to actually scratch someone wearing a shield...

Sublime

Derra wrote: »

I have to admit though - i would not want to "balance" NB and sorc currently as the small grp balance lies in shambles. Please give a smaller force some edge over a zerg/blob (like the old ultimate system scaling with targets hit).
They have to work on the game balance in general. Work on the insanely low TTK (reverting the HP nerf would go a looong way imho) but also reduce the amount of selfsustain certain tankbuilds have. Give ranged builds something to actually scratch someone wearing a shield...

I completely agree here, but I probably would try to fix the zerging first, since this kills all small scale PvP imo. But in the end improving trading in combat would be really nice as well. Some more soft Counters would be awesome as well, especially since, right now, you need so many specific counters against specifict builds.

Johngo0036

Hi all,

This is a really good discussion and my feelings are as follows,

I have a NB(Stamina) bld and yes i agree with all that is said relating to NB,

HOWEVER: in order to do the damage you mentioned we need to spend time and money on specialized gear and have our stats just right to do that kind of burst damage,

Likewise with a sorcerer. I also have a sorcerer.

We have the potential to do HUGE damage for a shortened period of time but at sometime our resources fail,
I have been hit with flame lash from a DK for over 14k, Through my shields.

I have been hit by MULTIPLE Templars with Radiant Destruction for 24k,

I was hit the first time this weekend by a NB for 23K Damage. .

I honestly feel that we are pretty even.

Yes NB hit HARD, so do SORCS,

SO do Templars and DK's

Saft

ToRelax wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

Templar is not that strong as described. The templar's very basic healing capability, that is Breath of Life depends up on Magicka/spell dmg.
Now, in this state of the game, where everybody - exept templars who chose to go for heal - is hitting for 10-20k - templars either have not enough HP (because they spec'd for healing), or their healing is so mediocre (if we look at the basic heal values COMPARED to INC damage, or if we look at the consecutive nurfs on healing in 1.6) that often templars are no longer able to heal AS GOOD as (and that already was "medium") before 1.6, because they need HP at the same time. A templar should have much stronger DEF than a sorc! A templar can not go for magicka-only, because than he simply dies when focused, without being able to heal himself (just the inc-dmg numbers).

All in all, Zenimax did a huge mistake: to raise damage so far, while lowering health points. I am writing this for the 5th time, I think. MAybe one day a responsible CEO at Zenimax will read this and talk with the balance-team

It was a huge mistake to nurf so much the healer class no.1 while raising damage that far.. and not raising "healing" that far (same values on 1 heal as 1 critical 18k+ attack, just a number).

It was a huge mistake to let other classes pay no price for being: TOP at mobility, TOP at damage, TOP at shielding, TOP at escape. This should have been recognized on PTS.

- Making a Counterstrike out of ESO, certainly was not the idea of the developers but now we have it.

It is also a HUUUGE mistake: to say that in a game with only 4 classes BALANCE is not needed due to group playing dependancy of singular classes... That is so st.. that I'd like to ban some people from MMOs! The concept of MMOs nowadays is: diversity without having "too weak" classes because and especially because players can not find a party every time, or the time needed for searching, discussing, explaining and comunicating simply takes too long. Diversity means: one is very strong at damage, one is very strong at mobility, one is very strong at healing atc. And here Zenimax simply failed!

Why should a group heal exceed the damage you do with a hard hitting ability?
Templar may need more defense, but certainly not in the form of healing...

BoL hits up to 2 targets not a group heal.

Saft

Johngo0036 wrote: »

Hi all,

This is a really good discussion and my feelings are as follows,

I have a NB(Stamina) bld and yes i agree with all that is said relating to NB,

HOWEVER: in order to do the damage you mentioned we need to spend time and money on specialized gear and have our stats just right to do that kind of burst damage,

Likewise with a sorcerer. I also have a sorcerer.

We have the potential to do HUGE damage for a shortened period of time but at sometime our resources fail,
I have been hit with flame lash from a DK for over 14k, Through my shields.

I have been hit by MULTIPLE Templars with Radiant Destruction for 24k,

I was hit the first time this weekend by a NB for 23K Damage. .

I honestly feel that we are pretty even.

Yes NB hit HARD, so do SORCS,

SO do Templars and DK's

It is the mobility and escape skills NB especially but also Sorc with BoL (tho not as powerful as NB) combined with very low TTK both classes have that is the problem.

Dragonknights, i can not see them push out even close as high burst as a NB or Sorc (sorc attacks easier to avoid tho). There is a couple of DK DPS builds, Whip for example, but then the DK is magica based and also easy to kill.

Stamina DK using 2h and Bow are not bad not at all. They got good defence in GDB and good dps. But they use almost only weapon skills for dps and they have no escape like NB does.

Templars = same as for DK we have no mobility/escape and therefor get ganked.

To sum it up, its
A: mobility and escape NB+Sorc has or if you say Templar and DK does NOT have that is the problem.
B: to low TTK making ganking from stealth to easy and lucrative. It is not tactic attack someone from stealth, killing in 1-2 seconds(while attack as second skill perhaps use CC). There is sometimes not even enought time to break CC animation before you are dead.

Francescolg

Saft wrote: »

4 ganking from stealth to easy and lucrative. It is not tactic attack someone from stealth, killing in 1-2 seconds. There is sometimes not even enought time to break CC animation before you are dead.

My words! AND this is a shame for any modern MMORPG, that is has not been included in the developers calculations BEFORE 1.6 went live. MMORPGS are not shooters! Developers always (!) have to think about the casual guy, who just hit max level with crappy equipment and who, now, goes into PvP..

We are at a state of the game, where even players in heavy armor and 20k+ resistances get 2-3 shotted. THAT is players doing everything for defense and even them get killed without being able to break free fast enough (or they die immediately after Break Free).

This is a shame and the fastest way to counter this is: lower the damage by 50%! Or raise HP back to old values!

This is so easy to resolve but it's taking them so long. This just repeats the experiences I made with this game in terms of "proper and fast" upgrades, which, for me, aren't existant.

tonemd

Good write up. Goes to show what tools and configurations are available to the classes. NBs definitely have multiple configurations available to them.

Since you added Inevitable Detonation to the NB's burst I assume you aren't locking out non class abilities. You can probably add Evil Hunter to the Resource Management pile. I tend to use Grim Focus + Evil Hunter before throwing out caltrops and engaging.

Sublime

tonemd wrote: »

Since you added Inevitable Detonation to the NB's burst I assume you aren't locking out non class abilities. You can probably add Evil Hunter to the Resource Management pile. I tend to use Grim Focus + Evil Hunter before throwing out caltrops and engaging.

The reason I included Magicka Detonation to the NB and SR's write up is because they, based on their skills, both gain a very unique advantage through it. Evil Hunter however affects everybody in the same way.

pjwb16_ESO

ToRelax wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The changes to Sorc and Templar were actually meant to keep the gape to NB/DK - I wouldn't give Templar 1 without that change as they have Channeled Focus and Repentence.

However, the highest regen you can get right now is with AoE + Siphoning Attacks, especially Caltrops, that's why. If you build for tanking - Sap Tank - or even a Steel Tornado spammer, you get more resources the more players stand in your AoE. Basically, all classes got their abilities to manage resources inmidst an enemy zerg nerfed with 1.6, but NBs can do with Caltrops and the new Soul Tether just fine instead.

Now I see what you meant with the enemy scaling ressource regeneration.

The reason I gave Templars a 1 is because Channeled Focus Returns very few ressources (I think it's actually weaker than Restoring Aura) and even though Repentance is awesome if you manage to kill somebody until you do the 10% bonus just doesn't cut it, meaning you're basically stuck with nothing until you get a kill.

Concerning the changes to DK I'm not sure, because i still think Battle Roar can be very strong and the percent Max Stamina Bonus of Helping Hands synergizes really nicely with a Dragonknights tanky nature. However, I also see that the Regeneration provided by the SA+AOE combo can be insane and actually really boosts their tankiness.

Regarding Soul Thether, I thought they only added thethers to all targets in the AOE increasing the HP leech, but in what way does that affect Ressource Management?

It doesn't (I think), I just brought it up because I mentioned the old sap tank got nerfed as well - part of it being that you have to decide between damage or your extra 30% damage mitigation when morphing Consuming Darkness now. Instead, you can now use Soul Tether as an ultimate.

If you build for such a build (and I know what i talk about, I played a Sap Tank for about 1,5 months in 1.6) you will have very low damage and very low burst, because of Siphoning Attacks, Soul Tether isnt that high damage then, too, just good because every beam from it seems like it can proc SA and also SA do not proc on shields (not that much of a problem but still worth to mention imo). What I want to say is that NB has a good diversity in builds (more then other classes I think) because of their large options (nearly every category in the OP is 4 or larger) but if you then go for one build you will sacrifice strenghts of NB, you wont have sustain/ tankiness with good burst/ damage in one build. Except maybe the Rollerblade build with Nirn Stacking that everyone complains about. If you go for the Magicka Cloak NB Burst build you wont use SA because you lower your damage by a high amount for example, I think its clear what I tried to say hopefully

ToRelax

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The changes to Sorc and Templar were actually meant to keep the gape to NB/DK - I wouldn't give Templar 1 without that change as they have Channeled Focus and Repentence.

However, the highest regen you can get right now is with AoE + Siphoning Attacks, especially Caltrops, that's why. If you build for tanking - Sap Tank - or even a Steel Tornado spammer, you get more resources the more players stand in your AoE. Basically, all classes got their abilities to manage resources inmidst an enemy zerg nerfed with 1.6, but NBs can do with Caltrops and the new Soul Tether just fine instead.

Now I see what you meant with the enemy scaling ressource regeneration.

The reason I gave Templars a 1 is because Channeled Focus Returns very few ressources (I think it's actually weaker than Restoring Aura) and even though Repentance is awesome if you manage to kill somebody until you do the 10% bonus just doesn't cut it, meaning you're basically stuck with nothing until you get a kill.

Concerning the changes to DK I'm not sure, because i still think Battle Roar can be very strong and the percent Max Stamina Bonus of Helping Hands synergizes really nicely with a Dragonknights tanky nature. However, I also see that the Regeneration provided by the SA+AOE combo can be insane and actually really boosts their tankiness.

Regarding Soul Thether, I thought they only added thethers to all targets in the AOE increasing the HP leech, but in what way does that affect Ressource Management?

It doesn't (I think), I just brought it up because I mentioned the old sap tank got nerfed as well - part of it being that you have to decide between damage or your extra 30% damage mitigation when morphing Consuming Darkness now. Instead, you can now use Soul Tether as an ultimate.

If you build for such a build (and I know what i talk about, I played a Sap Tank for about 1,5 months in 1.6) you will have very low damage and very low burst, because of Siphoning Attacks, Soul Tether isnt that high damage then, too, just good because every beam from it seems like it can proc SA and also SA do not proc on shields (not that much of a problem but still worth to mention imo). What I want to say is that NB has a good diversity in builds (more then other classes I think) because of their large options (nearly every category in the OP is 4 or larger) but if you then go for one build you will sacrifice strenghts of NB, you wont have sustain/ tankiness with good burst/ damage in one build. Except maybe the Rollerblade build with Nirn Stacking that everyone complains about. If you go for the Magicka Cloak NB Burst build you wont use SA because you lower your damage by a high amount for example, I think its clear what I tried to say hopefully

I agree.
Curious how the "rollerblade" will evolve now. With some Shadow Image to LOS or Mistform one may be able to reset the roll dodge cost once in a while.
Also good to know SA don't proc on shields. Makes me hate Barrier even more.

pjwb16_ESO

ToRelax wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The changes to Sorc and Templar were actually meant to keep the gape to NB/DK - I wouldn't give Templar 1 without that change as they have Channeled Focus and Repentence.

However, the highest regen you can get right now is with AoE + Siphoning Attacks, especially Caltrops, that's why. If you build for tanking - Sap Tank - or even a Steel Tornado spammer, you get more resources the more players stand in your AoE. Basically, all classes got their abilities to manage resources inmidst an enemy zerg nerfed with 1.6, but NBs can do with Caltrops and the new Soul Tether just fine instead.

Now I see what you meant with the enemy scaling ressource regeneration.

The reason I gave Templars a 1 is because Channeled Focus Returns very few ressources (I think it's actually weaker than Restoring Aura) and even though Repentance is awesome if you manage to kill somebody until you do the 10% bonus just doesn't cut it, meaning you're basically stuck with nothing until you get a kill.

Concerning the changes to DK I'm not sure, because i still think Battle Roar can be very strong and the percent Max Stamina Bonus of Helping Hands synergizes really nicely with a Dragonknights tanky nature. However, I also see that the Regeneration provided by the SA+AOE combo can be insane and actually really boosts their tankiness.

Regarding Soul Thether, I thought they only added thethers to all targets in the AOE increasing the HP leech, but in what way does that affect Ressource Management?

It doesn't (I think), I just brought it up because I mentioned the old sap tank got nerfed as well - part of it being that you have to decide between damage or your extra 30% damage mitigation when morphing Consuming Darkness now. Instead, you can now use Soul Tether as an ultimate.

If you build for such a build (and I know what i talk about, I played a Sap Tank for about 1,5 months in 1.6) you will have very low damage and very low burst, because of Siphoning Attacks, Soul Tether isnt that high damage then, too, just good because every beam from it seems like it can proc SA and also SA do not proc on shields (not that much of a problem but still worth to mention imo). What I want to say is that NB has a good diversity in builds (more then other classes I think) because of their large options (nearly every category in the OP is 4 or larger) but if you then go for one build you will sacrifice strenghts of NB, you wont have sustain/ tankiness with good burst/ damage in one build. Except maybe the Rollerblade build with Nirn Stacking that everyone complains about. If you go for the Magicka Cloak NB Burst build you wont use SA because you lower your damage by a high amount for example, I think its clear what I tried to say hopefully

I agree.
Curious how the "rollerblade" will evolve now. With some Shadow Image to LOS or Mistform one may be able to reset the roll dodge cost once in a while.
Also good to know SA don't proc on shields. Makes me hate Barrier even more.

Yes , at least Barrier gets a nerf to, we will see how hard it hits Barrier spam zergs thought with damage reduction, too. I personaly think that Rollerblade still might be somewhat viable but I think it has to sacrifice more damage to be and so I think some Magicka NB build will be a little bit better damage and maybe movement wise as long as a player (dont matter if he plays the rollerblade or some Magicka NB) can use Shadow Image very well. I liked the old 1.5 Siphoning Attacks Casterblade style very much, too, sadly not really viable anymore with SA reducing Funnel Health damages so much and the 1.6 nerfs to Light Armor Mitigation.
Now I dont know anymore want i wanted to write xD, ill just continue with my breakfast

pjwb16_ESO

Sublime wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

Since you added Inevitable Detonation to the NB's burst I assume you aren't locking out non class abilities. You can probably add Evil Hunter to the Resource Management pile. I tend to use Grim Focus + Evil Hunter before throwing out caltrops and engaging.

The reason I included Magicka Detonation to the NB and SR's write up is because they, based on their skills, both gain a very unique advantage through it. Evil Hunter however affects everybody in the same way.

Templar can ge some nice burst with Deto too, Blazing Shield, Deto timed with Danwbreaker, might add that too?

Cinbri

Kinda some errors about Templars.
1)Templars tanking: ultimates: u-s-e-l-e-s-s. Empowering Sweep radius too small and DOT is not reapplying effect that viable only if you hit 6 enemies. Nova cost is just too much for PvP and it is ground based, so it will be negated by npcs or smart sorc in a next couple seconds or everyone will just press roll button and fully negate entire effect. One of 2 reasons why templars rolling vampirism is Swarm that triple effective than any of templar ultimate. Ofc if you reject to be vampire, than just like me you will be forced to use Empowering Sweep, but this doesn't make this ult any better.
2)Templar burst: Crescent Sweep - noone using it in PvP coz its miserable damage, don't know why you called it burst damage. Backlash currently deal capped 30% of absorbed attack, with worst class burst and fact that skill purgable, again noone using it in PvP for any kind of damage; if ZoS will change it to uncapped absorbtion or 130% like description says, only then skill will be viable in PvP. Puncturing Strikes is channeled ability; burst damage with channel ability, don't know how it even possible; Burning Light proc with Jabs is good on paper but in game it's proc terrible low.
Rest of info is viable.
EDIT: @danno8 Prolonged Spell Resist form Focus is just a UI bug from 1.6, it not saved on you after 8 sec buff ends.

pjwb16_ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

Kinda some errors about Templars.
1)Templars tanking: ultimates: u-s-e-l-e-s-s. Empowering Sweep radius too small and DOT is not reapplying effect that viable only if you hit 6 enemies. Nova cost is just too much for PvP and it is ground based, so it will be negated by npcs or smart sorc in a next couple seconds or everyone will just press roll button and fully negate entire effect. One of 2 reasons why templars rolling vampirism is Swarm that triple effective than any of templar ultimate. Ofc if you reject to be vampire, than just like me you will be forced to use Empowering Sweep, but this doesn't make this ult any better.
2)Templar burst: Crescent Sweep - noone using it in PvP coz its miserable damage, don't know why you called it burst damage. Backlash currently deal capped 30% of absorbed attack, with worst class burst and fact that skill purgable, again noone using it in PvP for any kind of damage; if ZoS will change it to uncapped absorbtion or 130% like description says, only then skill will be viable in PvP. Puncturing Strikes is channeled ability; burst damage with channel ability, don't know how it even possible; Burning Light proc with Jabs is good on paper but in game it's proc terrible low.
Rest of info is viable.

D-D-D-D-Dawnbreaker of good fight should be absolutly good

Sublime

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

Since you added Inevitable Detonation to the NB's burst I assume you aren't locking out non class abilities. You can probably add Evil Hunter to the Resource Management pile. I tend to use Grim Focus + Evil Hunter before throwing out caltrops and engaging.

The reason I included Magicka Detonation to the NB and SR's write up is because they, based on their skills, both gain a very unique advantage through it. Evil Hunter however affects everybody in the same way.

Templar can ge some nice burst with Deto too, Blazing Shield, Deto timed with Danwbreaker, might add that too?

Cinbri wrote: »

2)Templar burst: Crescent Sweep - noone using it in PvP coz its miserable damage, don't know why you called it burst damage. Backlash currently deal capped 30% of absorbed attack, with worst class burst and fact that skill purgable, again noone using it in PvP for any kind of damage; if ZoS will change it to uncapped absorbtion or 130% like description says, only then skill will be viable in PvP. Puncturing Strikes is channeled ability; burst damage with channel ability, don't know how it even possible; Burning Light proc with Jabs is good on paper but in game it's proc terrible low.
Rest of info is viable.

Templars have some burst, but it's nowhere near the one of a SR or NB, which is why it's at 2.

Cinbri wrote: »

Kinda some errors about Templars.
1)Templars tanking: ultimates: u-s-e-l-e-s-s. Empowering Sweep radius too small and DOT is not reapplying effect that viable only if you hit 6 enemies. Nova cost is just too much for PvP and it is ground based, so it will be negated by npcs or smart sorc in a next couple seconds or everyone will just press roll button and fully negate entire effect. One of 2 reasons why templars rolling vampirism is Swarm that triple effective than any of templar ultimate. Ofc if you reject to be vampire, than just like me you will be forced to use Empowering Sweep, but this doesn't make this ult any better.

I have to agree that the ultimates probably are not as strong as described, even though they can - in certain situations - prove very useful. I'm however not going to change the score, since I still feel TP's are pretty much on par with NB's in terms of Defense.

Templar [Defense]:
"On top of that he has two very powerful defensive ultimates in the form of Empowering Sweep and Nova."
-> "Apart from that he has two bad to medicore defensive ultimates in the form of Empowering Sweep and Nova."
("medicore" because they have the potential to have a very high impact in chokepoints or similar situations)

Sorry for the late response but I can't concentrate during hot temperatures. :S

Ludof

I have 3 Templars,1 DK,1 NB and 1 Sorc;
I just don't want to play Templars in PvP anymore.

Sublime

Ludof wrote: »

I have 3 Templars,1 DK,1 NB and 1 Sorc;
I just don't want to play Templars in PvP anymore.

I enjoy playing mine in groups, but for anything else I need another class.

Zsymon

Derra wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

lol sorcs have no healing? did you ever try to kill a sorc spamming shields? well in 1vs1 its impossible, only full tanks have that kind of survability but they deal 0 dmg, while sorcs can burst you in 1 sec with the right cobination of skills, sorcs should have 5 in defense and healing...also dk has very good cc with fossilize-talons- whip-leap combos, it should have a 5 in cc

Once you start playing in grps sorc shields start to matter less. A coordinated attack by 2+ players on a sorc (cc IS needed) is a garuanteed kill given there is no templar spamming bol just for the lulz.

No, I've seen Sorcs take on groups of 6-7-8 players, tanking all their damage with stacked shields and taking them down one by one in quick succession, not even using BE, just standing there tanking the damage, casting burst damage spells and recasting their mines.

Tankqull

Zsymon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

lol sorcs have no healing? did you ever try to kill a sorc spamming shields? well in 1vs1 its impossible, only full tanks have that kind of survability but they deal 0 dmg, while sorcs can burst you in 1 sec with the right cobination of skills, sorcs should have 5 in defense and healing...also dk has very good cc with fossilize-talons- whip-leap combos, it should have a 5 in cc

Once you start playing in grps sorc shields start to matter less. A coordinated attack by 2+ players on a sorc (cc IS needed) is a garuanteed kill given there is no templar spamming bol just for the lulz.

No, I've seen Sorcs take on groups of 6-7-8 players, tanking all their damage with stacked shields and taking them down one by one in quick succession, not even using BE, just standing there tanking the damage and casting burst damage spells.

crap doesent kill anything - those 6-8 players are unable to kill any class played by someone with 2 brain cells. sorcs are toast if two player attack them coordinated.

Zsymon

Are you honestly trying to tell me that there's no way to fight 1v2 as a Sorc? Come on.

Ludof

Sublime wrote: »

Ludof wrote: »

I have 3 Templars,1 DK,1 NB and 1 Sorc;
I just don't want to play Templars in PvP anymore.

I enjoy playing mine in groups, but for anything else I need another class.

I enjoy playing in group with it too ( some skills need to be changed though);
what i wrote was meant for solo play ofc.

dodgehopper_ESO

The one thing I would like to see ZoS do is break the forced issue of Templars as the only true healers. Earthen Heart (DK) and Siphoning (NB) on the surface look like they were meant to be 'Healing' skill lines. Sorcerer doesn't appear to have any healer skill lines although Surge and their magicka passives help make Restoration better. I believe their planned changes to the Earthen Heart skill Stone Fist is intended to enhance this, and along with the Obsidian Shield this can make an interesting dynamic. The problem with Templars is they don't have quite the same synergy between skills as other classes, and almost (not all) of the abilities feel particularly clunky. The new Radiant Oppression I believe gets used so much precisely because it is not clunky, though I am one of the odd few who miss Blinding Flashes and had hoped it would have simply been made a bit more useful (Like Cinders from DK line).

Apart from this, all classes seem quite capable of doing DPS or Tanking. While this might bother some players, it has always been my hope that they can more or less make them closely performing for all 3 roles but with a unique niche for each. By doing this they would make the game a little more interesting, and open up more creativity for the players.

Soris

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

The one thing I would like to see ZoS do is break the forced issue of Templars as the only true healers.

This would be good. Im sick of being pigeon holed into one role and always "expected" to heal even I use dps or tank spec just because I have that heal button. But by doing this, they shouldn't nerf templar healing but buff others. Maybe with this way comments like this "templars shouldn't have good dmg skills because they have ability to heal" would finally end.

Tankqull

Zsymon wrote: »

Are you honestly trying to tell me that there's no way to fight 1v2 as a Sorc? Come on.

no but so can any class - its allways a matter of skill if you will survive or even win a 2vs1. if you do so you are simply better than those other two players and will do so with any other class as well.