How to balance NBs

RoamingRiverElk

Seth_Black wrote: »

DK & Templar - they DON'T NEED mobility! They can stand in one place and just take the damage.
If you lack skills to play you will die - OBVIOUSLY.

No, they can't. Not in 1.6. Or perhaps we just have a different idea of how much tanking is awesome. DKs can, of course, tank well in 1 vs 2 or something... to an extent. And tanky DK builds now mostly come with a high, high cost to the ability to deal damage.

I'm really trying to imagine this "stand in one place and just take the damage" as a DK, in a situation where they're being attacked by seven to twelve people... That kind of a build would probably mean indeed just standing in one place and not doing anything else - no attacks beyond flapping wings a few times. Even their dots will be weak. Why people would want to attack that kind of a player with so much enthusiasm though is beyond me, but it does happen...

But, back to the wings... Those wings go down in an instant when you face five to twelve people. In fact, only two light attack + crushing shock weavers are enough to stop caring about the wings at all. Now imagine all the other damage coming in... If you have a blocking build now, that means you will have invested significantly into stamina, which means you have less magicka to use wings, igneous shield and healing. The speed at which you can use these skills hasn't changed either, so you just better hope those four projectiles you reflect with wings happen to be high damage ones (and not two or more light attacks), or it will have been a wasted wings (except for the four attacks that didn't drain your stamina) when you could have used some other skill. So... DKs lost one 4-second unlimited defense skill... The only other one available to them is roll dodge. Which is not standing still and just taking the damage. Also, why would any DK just stand in one place forever, when they obviously would do so much better if they also tried to use the environment to their advantage?

In any case, my point is, part of being skilled as DK (even as tank) *is* to move and not just stand in one place and take the damage, whenever that is possible, unless it really is to distract the enemies from attacking other players in a specific situation. But well-played DKs will still die when significantly outnumbered. Much more easily than in 1.5.

DKs and templars do need something more - DKs didn't used to need an escape tool in 1.5, but with the way things currently are...

NB - requires really mastering some moves & combos to play it right in PvP.
It's not that easy as you may think

Yes, but at least the potential is there with the class to survive a lot and to not get killed by zergs, unlike with templar and DK, who can't escape and will just die.

As conclusion: with countless possibilities of gear/skills mixture and level of player's skill there's NO WAY to balance anything more than it already is. Game is NOT broken
There's no such thing as OP class. One claims sorc is OP (he gets killed by them a lot) another will say NB is OP (he gets ganked a lot), and some DK will say everything other than DK is OP ...just bcs he sucks in PvP totallly
People in ZoS are QUALIFIED to asses balancing way more than majority of the players ...and they get PAID to do it
...so from my point of view they're doing best they possibly can to give us great tools to develop our own unique characters in a way we will enjoy them
...just think about it

With so many things broken in PvP for ages, I do not have nearly as much faith in ZOS to actually implement balanced PvP where all classes (with both magicka and stamina builds) are able to achieve great things when played very well. When was the last time you were truly amazed by someone playing a templar?

But... um... yes, nightblades... Don't nerf nightblades, don't nerf sorcs, buff templars and DKs, buff magicka nightblade damage a bit, give stamina sorcerers are viable way to play.

Cody

Teargrants wrote: »

So it seems lots of impulsive forum warriors missed that this was a parody thread. Here's a useful diagram to help explain.

if this was a parody thread, he did a terrible job of making it out to be one:/

you cant make a thread calling a class OP and expect only fun times.

he should have joked about something else if this is indeed the case. sweetrolls perhaps?

ToRelax

Cody wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

So it seems lots of impulsive forum warriors missed that this was a parody thread. Here's a useful diagram to help explain.

if this was a parody thread, he did a terrible job of making it out to be one:/

you cant make a thread calling a class OP and expect only fun times.

he should have joked about something else if this is indeed the case. sweetrolls perhaps?

Cmon now, you don't even get suspicious when reading this?

ToRelax wrote: »

[...]
PS: That other thread for reference, one of the nerf sorc ones

PPS: Sarcasm detector is broken again

PPPS: To make that clear, this thread is supposed for the people with common sense, to find a reasonable way to tone down NBs. You can't seriously argue wether NBs are OP or not anymore, there are sooo many qq threads.

Edit: didn't replaced class in some instances, fixed now

Whatever, it may be a parody, but it's not pure joke, I also had a tiny little bit hope people might understand
1. That those nerf sorc threads are stupid, especially the one I was referring to - not allowing an argument wether Sorcs are OP at all
2. That there are far worse options than a magicka NB right now (though that was not my original intention, as I tried to make this thread about Templars, who are in the worst place atm imo, see post #2).
3. That ZOS would just close not constructive threads. But usually it's rather the opposite, don't think it will change.

Soris

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

One troll. So many trolled.

ToRelax wrote: »

IKR, but what else to say, I couldn't possibly claim Sorcs had some kind of defense, the other guy didn't claim that about NBs either .

Lol ok ok I didn't realised the purpose of this thread until reading the other thread haha

RainfeatherUK

Well at least the thread is good for a laugh lol.

Ezareth

Not only is the first thread a parody but some of the replies are similar enough to be as well. Its funny when the tables are turned how people react.

I think stam NBs are currently the strongest class in PvP now. Having played both a sorc and now a l14 NB I feel as if I am qualified enough to make that statement.

Just wait until I unlock my second weapon bar. The sad part is at L14 Ive already had as high of wrecking blow crits as my vr14 sorcs unboosted fragments. When I'm l30 I'll be critting far higher than even a boosted frag.

But nerf sorcs...lol.

Teargrants

Cody wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

So it seems lots of impulsive forum warriors missed that this was a parody thread. Here's a useful diagram to help explain.

if this was a parody thread, he did a terrible job of making it out to be one:/

you cant make a thread calling a class OP and expect only fun times.

he should have joked about something else if this is indeed the case. sweetrolls perhaps?

Bad job of making it out to be a troll thread? It was copied verbatim from Neighbor's poorly thought out nerf sorc thread to make a point. And with all the rage responses I have to say it did that in spades.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

What forums are you talking about, there are two about this and out of those one is yours...

And also, what leader boards are you looking at? Couldn't possibly be the same game we are talking about.

And lastly...

DK's have wicked offense and defense. Many are running perma dodge builds and do it just as effectively as any NB perma dodge build. Why are we going to give a class that can run in a fight 10 people at a time an escape? You don't honestly believe that would be balance do you?

Templar has amazing defense. They don't need an escape, what they lack is damage.

Sorcs...this is why I don't think we play the same game. Massive burst potential, shield stacking, and one of, if not the best, escape in the game....cloak is easily broken by AoE, detect pots, and many skills to include crushing shock and several sorc class specific abilities.

All above classes also have self heals that are light years from NB self heals.

NB's aren't even close to OP and never will be. If you're dying to NB's its because you're fighting good NB's who are used to being sheet on (lol) and have adapted the best they can.

The problem is you say it's not up for debate and that clearly shows that you, no offense, don't know what you're talking about. You don't want people to argue your point because your point is wrong and based on obvious frustrations to receive fly dying to an NB.

Sorry but NB does not need a Nerf or buff they are fine where they are.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What forums are you talking about, there are two about this and out of those one is yours...

And also, what leader boards are you looking at? Couldn't possibly be the same game we are talking about.

And lastly...

DK's have wicked offense and defense. Many are running perma dodge builds and do it just as effectively as any NB perma dodge build. Why are we going to give a class that can run in a fight 10 people at a time an escape? You don't honestly believe that would be balance do you?

Templar has amazing defense. They don't need an escape, what they lack is damage.

Sorcs...this is why I don't think we play the same game. Massive burst potential, shield stacking, and one of, if not the best, escape in the game....cloak is easily broken by AoE, detect pots, and many skills to include crushing shock and several sorc class specific abilities.

All above classes also have self heals that are light years from NB self heals.

NB's aren't even close to OP and never will be. If you're dying to NB's its because you're fighting good NB's who are used to being sheet on (lol) and have adapted the best they can.

The problem is you say it's not up for debate and that clearly shows that you, no offense, don't know what you're talking about. You don't want people to argue your point because your point is wrong and based on obvious frustrations to receive fly dying to an NB.

Sorry but NB does not need a Nerf or buff they are fine where they are.

Not sure why my phone auto corrected to say "receive fly" but ya know what, I'm going to leave it that way hahaha.

ToRelax

NB lacks ways of reading comprehension.

Ezareth

ToRelax wrote: »

NB lacks ways of reading comprehension.

Fixed for you.

ZOS_UlyssesW

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