ZOS Please Change Lotus Fan Morph...

akray21

This morph is usless, and no one uses it. Magicka based NB's are electing to go with the un-morphed teleport strike instead of this worthless morph. As a magicka based NB, I used to rely on Ambush as one of my go to skills, and now it is useless for magicka users because is scales of stamina. There are a few ways in which this could be solved.

1. Paste ambush but scale off magicka and spell power like it used to
2. Increase spell damage by x, for x seconds (Major Sorcery?)
3. Grant an x point damage shield for x seconds after a successful attack
4. After a successful attack the next ability that cost magicka has its cost reduced by 100%

There are probably other good suggestions for a morph, and I personally would like something that increases future damage like Ambush does, but anything other than lotus fan would help. I am missing about 1.2k damage on my concealed weapon followup after using teleport strike, I need to make up this damage loss somehow.

Panda244

Shameless Bump.

Stopped playing my NB because they broke Magicka NBs burst.

tinythinker

Not the best suggestion, but it might spark some better ideas: What if Lotus Fan ignored 30-35% of a damage shield on the primary target?

Or just have the DoT ticks ignore damage shield altogether?

eventide03b14a_ESO

tinythinker wrote: »

Not the best suggestion, but it might spark some better ideas: What if Lotus Fan ignored 30-35% of a damage shield on the primary target?

Or just have the DoT ticks ignore damage shield altogether?

Uh...no.

akray21

tinythinker wrote: »

Not the best suggestion, but it might spark some better ideas: What if Lotus Fan ignored 30-35% of a damage shield on the primary target?

Or just have the DoT ticks ignore damage shield altogether?

Ignoring damage shields wouldn't work most of the time as they normally don't have damage shields up when you are activating ambush. I might like the idea of the DoT ticking for me, perhaps a total amount of damage greater than that of ambush + it's damage applied to the next attack. So say Ambush does 5k damage, and boosts the next attack by 20%, or 1,000 damage on a 5k damage ability, that would mean Ambush is essentially doing 6k damage. Make the magicka morph do 2.5k damage up front, plus an additional 4.5k over time. So the damage potential is greater, but not guaranteed as the DoT could be purged. I dkn if that would be too strong, but something along those lines.

Bouvin

Yep, Lotus fan is trashed.

If you're Magicka NB you're actually better off not morphing Ambush.

Also, please fix:

• Agony - useless skill in PvP PvE. I don't know any NB that slot this... ever
• Grim Focus - replaced a decent skill "Focused Attacks/Haste" with something that very few NB use.

akray21

Bouvin wrote: »

Yep, Lotus fan is trashed.

If you're Magicka NB you're actually better off not morphing Ambush.

Also, please fix:

• Agony - useless skill in PvP PvE. I don't know any NB that slot this... ever
• Grim Focus - replaced a decent skill "Focused Attacks/Haste" with something that very few NB use.

LOL! You are so right! I have never even spent a skill point on agony!

As a magicka melee NB I fee like I am so pigeon holed. I have to take a siphoning ability on both bars, I have to find a way to fit in structured entroy for extra 20% spell power... Not enough options.

tinythinker

akray21 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Not the best suggestion, but it might spark some better ideas: What if Lotus Fan ignored 30-35% of a damage shield on the primary target?

Or just have the DoT ticks ignore damage shield altogether?

Ignoring damage shields wouldn't work most of the time as they normally don't have damage shields up when you are activating ambush. I might like the idea of the DoT ticking for me, perhaps a total amount of damage greater than that of ambush + it's damage applied to the next attack. So say Ambush does 5k damage, and boosts the next attack by 20%, or 1,000 damage on a 5k damage ability, that would mean Ambush is essentially doing 6k damage. Make the magicka morph do 2.5k damage up front, plus an additional 4.5k over time. So the damage potential is greater, but not guaranteed as the DoT could be purged. I dkn if that would be too strong, but something along those lines.

In the full version linked above the DoT eats damage absorbing shields over time and if the DoTs ignored the shield same difference -- if a shield goes up before or during the effect the damage gets through. If they put a shield up the DoT eats it and if the DoT has ended/the effect is purged a new Lotus Fan could be applied. Lotus was never going to give the same impact as Ambush, it was more of something intended to work in the background during combat and to act as a form of crowd control while something like Refreshing Path+Sap Essence was applied. This idea just adds a little more to help with shield stackers.

I like your suggestion as well, but the damage might need to be lowered just a bit because it effects multiple targets (but not too much since the DoT could be removed).

The reason I went with "eating damage shields" is that the way I suggested it, it would eat 35% of a shield (however strong) then apply current Lotus Fan damage, then each proc of the DoT would eat 35% of the remaining shield and apply damage. So if the target has a 6000 point damage shield you would get this: Cast Lotus Fan and do 2100 damage to absorbing shield plus whatever your base Lotus Fan damage is. Let's say the base damage is 1000. That's 3100 on cast leaving 2900, which would be further reduced by each proc. The first DoT proc would take 35% again leaving 1365 for the shield before the actual DoT damage. If there was a 10,000 point damage absorbing shield, the initial hit would take out 3500 of the shield before initial/base ability damage (1000 in our example) touched it, leaving 5500 of the shield for Lotus Fan DoTs and other attacks. Basically, along with the snare it would be constantly weakening any shields while you deal other damage. It doesn't change PvE use but it does add some PvP utility.

Again, my suggestion is not the greatest idea and I also like your idea (with slightly reduced damage), or the suggestion for stunning the primary target in addition to snaring that target and nearby enemies, along with adding a slight damage increase, as others elsewhere have suggested.

tinythinker

Bouvin wrote: »

Yep, Lotus fan is trashed.

If you're Magicka NB you're actually better off not morphing Ambush.

Also, please fix:

• Agony - useless skill in PvP PvE. I don't know any NB that slot this... ever

I can see Agony being useful if it or a morph did higher damage and/or if the remaining damage from the DoT effect was applied if the effect ends prematurely. Unless you are soloing you can't control whether another player does damage to the target. I do like the animation and the idea being of able to stun an opponent with damage over time. It reminds me of Petrify from the Dragonknights' Earthen Heart skill line, which allows a *little* damage before the effect ends and still gives you an AoE or a root anyway. I know some folks use it as I have seen it in PvP, I just don't see it very much.

Joy_Division

Not sure how this morph ever past the pre-1.6 inspection ZoS did with every skill.

akray21

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not sure how this morph ever past the pre-1.6 inspection ZoS did with every skill.

Wonder when the next time will be that they revisit skills? Right now they are too worried about the crown store and console release...

Laerwen

Oh great teleporting, shadowcloaking, dodge roll spamming forum blades, I is in your thread disagreeing with your postz.

Nerf NB.

ToRelax

I might level my NB further during the next weeks and so far I intended to use Lotus Fan...

Woudn't it be a better solution to just give the base ability Teleport Strike the empower buff and remove it if you morph it to Lotus Fan?

AriBoh

Laerwen wrote: »

Oh great teleporting, shadowcloaking, dodge roll spamming forum blades, I is in your thread disagreeing with your postz.

Nerf NB.

MAGIKA NBs cant spam dodge roll, try again.

I say remove the DoT altogether, I'd rather have a single target gap closer with an AoE splash effect like templar can morph theirs to (though nobody actually uses that morph) than the waste of a skill point lotus is.

Laerwen

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Oh great teleporting, shadowcloaking, dodge roll spamming forum blades, I is in your thread disagreeing with your postz.

Nerf NB.

MAGIKA NBs cant spam dodge roll, try again.

I say remove the DoT altogether, I'd rather have a single target gap closer with an AoE splash effect like templar can morph theirs to (though nobody actually uses that morph) than the waste of a skill point lotus is.

Im just kiddin my little NB brotha from anotha motha. I tell you what, I'll trade you bolt escape for shadow cloak. Deal?

KingShocker

Im just kiddin my little NB brotha from anotha motha. I tell you what, I'll trade you bolt escape for shadow cloak. Deal? [/quote]

make it lightning ball and you have yourself a deal

KingShocker

also lotus fan is awesome if you do a tanky nb/sap tank build. It's almost like our version of dragon claws with a built in leap. But you're right magicka NB burst is a thing of the past and that makes me sad.

This is my idea:
step 1- remove morphs
step 2- introduce some sort of "morphing stone" drop, (ie lotus fan stone, ambush stone, magicka version of ambush stone, etc.) and make them only work with according abillities.
step 3- give abilities "slots" for said stones
step 4- eventually come out with new morphing stones for new fun takes on abilities
step 5- profit

Draehl

Or just buff the DoT significantly and have it apply the lesser reduced healing received debuff.

akray21

Draehl wrote: »

Or just buff the DoT significantly and have it apply the lesser reduced healing received debuff.

This sounds good to me as well... So many things would work

manny254

There is one good thing about it.......

Uhhhhhhh

Oh yeah if you use it on critters it won't kill them so you like a idiot who can't kill a squirrel.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I like lotus fan as it is. But you shouldn't look at lotus fan as a damage skill. It is an aoe cc to keep enemies near you.

akray21

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I like lotus fan as it is. But you shouldn't look at lotus fan as a damage skill. It is an aoe cc to keep enemies near you.

Magicka Melee NB has no real burst damage skill... sure concealed weapon is alright for sustain, but nothing to nuke the enemy... that is what ambush was

lolo_01b16_ESO

akray21 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I like lotus fan as it is. But you shouldn't look at lotus fan as a damage skill. It is an aoe cc to keep enemies near you.

Magicka Melee NB has no real burst damage skill... sure concealed weapon is alright for sustain, but nothing to nuke the enemy... that is what ambush was

I can understand that you miss your ambush -> soul harvest -> impale. But I'd prefer leaving lotus fan as cc and change agony to a damage skill. (Or do it the other way round, make agony an aoe cc and lotus fan a magicka version of ambush).

akray21

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I like lotus fan as it is. But you shouldn't look at lotus fan as a damage skill. It is an aoe cc to keep enemies near you.

Magicka Melee NB has no real burst damage skill... sure concealed weapon is alright for sustain, but nothing to nuke the enemy... that is what ambush was

I can understand that you miss your ambush -> soul harvest -> impale. But I'd prefer leaving lotus fan as cc and change agony to a damage skill. (Or do it the other way round, make agony an aoe cc and lotus fan a magicka version of ambush).

I think it would be better to change agony to a distance AoE CC. That would give NB's something else unique that no other class has. Agony would look like:

Cast Time: 1 second
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters

Targeted enemy, and all enemies within 15 meters, are slowed by 70% for 6 seconds. After the affect ends all enemies within 15 meters of the target take x damage. (the damage aspect may need tweaked somehow)

This way we can get the magicka Assassination ability back to help... assassinate targets, lol

Xsorus

I like the idea of Dots in general ignoring Damage Shields.

hehekta

What if Lotus Fan's dmg will be scale from distanse, like a Critical Charge? It's negate it as spam-ability and doing great for gank/pursuit.

Sythias

Give lotus fan the base immobilize of Teleport Strike and buff the damage a bit. /signed

Draehl

hehekta wrote: »

What if Lotus Fan's dmg will be scale from distanse, like a Critical Charge? It's negate it as spam-ability and doing great for gank/pursuit.

I've got my biases, but stam NB is very strong on the burst front- it is much more interesting to push magicka NB away from burst and more towards making our DoTs stronger, better access to heal debuffs, and other utility type effects.

akray21

Draehl wrote: »

hehekta wrote: »

What if Lotus Fan's dmg will be scale from distanse, like a Critical Charge? It's negate it as spam-ability and doing great for gank/pursuit.

I've got my biases, but stam NB is very strong on the burst front- it is much more interesting to push magicka NB away from burst and more towards making our DoTs stronger, better access to heal debuffs, and other utility type effects.

The thing is that this is supposed to be a game that lets me play how I want to play. I want to be a magicka melee burst NB, why... because I suck at sustain damage over a long fight. If a fight goes over about 30 seconds, I have already lost.

Draehl

akray21 wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

hehekta wrote: »

What if Lotus Fan's dmg will be scale from distanse, like a Critical Charge? It's negate it as spam-ability and doing great for gank/pursuit.

I've got my biases, but stam NB is very strong on the burst front- it is much more interesting to push magicka NB away from burst and more towards making our DoTs stronger, better access to heal debuffs, and other utility type effects.

The thing is that this is supposed to be a game that lets me play how I want to play. I want to be a magicka melee burst NB, why... because I suck at sustain damage over a long fight. If a fight goes over about 30 seconds, I have already lost.

Fair enough, but my point being that burst magicka already has the tools needed to be successful. Look at Sypher's build. Works very well.

akray21

Draehl wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

hehekta wrote: »

What if Lotus Fan's dmg will be scale from distanse, like a Critical Charge? It's negate it as spam-ability and doing great for gank/pursuit.

I've got my biases, but stam NB is very strong on the burst front- it is much more interesting to push magicka NB away from burst and more towards making our DoTs stronger, better access to heal debuffs, and other utility type effects.

The thing is that this is supposed to be a game that lets me play how I want to play. I want to be a magicka melee burst NB, why... because I suck at sustain damage over a long fight. If a fight goes over about 30 seconds, I have already lost.

Fair enough, but my point being that burst magicka already has the tools needed to be successful. Look at Sypher's build. Works very well.

I have tried to adapt to a sypher style build, but the destro staff just doesn't work from me. I am closer in style to Xinthisis, but he is all about that sustain with siphoning attacks. I have been playing around with a lot of skills trying to find what provides the most burst for magicka, but I have yet to land on something.